Old Wineskins

[eaglesway]

Another thing I've seen in my days of vanity, wandering under the sun among the sons of men ;)

When we get a revelation, we often already considered ourselves somewhere near the pinnacle of understanding and spiritual evolution, so we return with it to our tradition thinking..... if only I can get them to see this- then we will REALLY be something.

But in the case of the restoration of all things and the salvation of all, it is not advanced theology OR advanced spirituality. It is just another step in the restoration of the milk of the "elementary principles of the oracles of God" and the foundation doctrines spoken of hebrews 5 and 6.

Being from any tradition, and now having also the understanding of UR, is more a reason to tear down deeply into what we thought our firm foundations were, more than a reason to just cap off what we had like adding a dollup of whipped cream to a slightly melted sundae.

The axe is being laid to the roots of the trees, and for far deeper reasons than misunderstanding the Godhead or being wrong about the doctrines of "resurrection of the dead and eternal judgement". Christianity is falling into disrepair, not just because "as iniquity abounds the love of many is growing cold", but also because it is so far from Jesus, Peter, Paul, James and John.... so eaten up with tradition and fine points of systematic theologies that are fundamentally out of sync with "the mystery of His will, His kind intention which He purposed in Him, the administration suitable to the fulness of times, the gathering together of all things into one in Christ" as to be of an almost wholly opposing Spirit, simply bearing a few platitudes, laws and wearing Jesus stickers and t-shirts while totally missing what God is up to in the world.

IMO, at the core of that deeper understanding is the body of Christ, a Bride "coming down out of the heaven"s, and a thing many people think God is done with, but I think He is just starting to renew- the church.

How the word "essentials" doesnt call to mind more how we relate to one another in Christ as a body than exactly what we see about the fine lines of theological concepts sort of bogles my mind. The body of Christ is an "essential". Jesus and Paul taught tons on it.

"That you may be one even as I and the Father are one, that I am in the Father and the Father in Me and I in you...

" until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work."

These are things that I think are being ignored(speaking generally) because of unbelief and immaturity, not because God is really only building the ecclesia in the heavenlies in some spiritual way. I believe that as Jesus is the "bread of life coming down out of heaven" the Bride of Christ must "come down out of the heavens" and that is what the wedding supper of the Lamb is really all about. The invitations have been sent, but most are too important to come and celebrate the union of the Bride and the Lamb. They may not have enough oil in their vessels to follow the Voice in thru the night to get there anyway- but I believe this age must see the Bride adorned in order to be fulfilled.

The Bridegroom will come to His Beloved and the Feast will be held for all the world to see as the Day of the Lord approaches. IMO, we (the ecclesia) will rise up to meet Him as one tabernacle of prayer for all people before anyone rises up to meet Him in the air.

I might be totally wrong, and I guess time will tell. Personally, I dont think God is done with the book of Acts yet, and the chaos we see erupting everywhere is like the tohu and bohu into which He will speak, "Let there be light" in some awesome new way, and there will be light, and it will be good :) And I hope the separation of the waters, and the dry land, and the fruitfulness that will emerge from the mists is a clearer representation of the gospel message carried by a generation of children and disciples in more love, power and wisdom than the old wineskins can stand.

[Ross]

New wine does indeed NOT go into old wineskins.
The past can explain a few things, but we  do not live in the past, and cannot return to the past.
Would seem to be why Paul says we are a new creation.

" Personally, I don't think God is done with the book of Acts yet, and the chaos we see erupting everywhere is like the tohu and bohu into which He will speak, "Let there be light" in some awesome new way, and there will be light, and it will be good."

The heavens and the earth were created then there was rest. Does not say that He has stopped creating all together, just rested from the starter. There is to be new heavens and earth; imagine the geophysics and power of that process.

" Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work."

Indeed key point. So many divisions now that need to be stripped away to the point of one-ness in Christ.
Fortunately NOTHING can keep us from the love of God in Christ Jesus; just takes time to process.

[marie glen]

Amen! to all of the above! :thumbsup: :iagree:

I have thought that through the centuries of Christendom there has been those, sprinkled like salt (tiny shining gems) who truly loved the Lord.. the love was able to carry them through the notion of 'hell'.. but that notion cannot endure.. not being true! And as the world has 'come of age' (age of reason) the notion has been working against the gospel/good news. And "a little leaven, leavens the whole lump". A 'little' untruth robs the gospel of its convincing and saving POWER.

And further untruth has entered.. until this day, when many believers, churches and christian schools/universities are denying the book of Genesis as merely myth, which then supposes that there was millions of years of death before Adam and Eve.. contradicting what God says, that sin ("missing the mark" the greek) - imperfection-imo, is what brought death..

Until now when, I believe, has occurred more fully, the prophesy of "falling away". That christendom (and the personal liberty from man's oppression it brought about) is fading .. But perhaps a new body of Christ is rising.. (out of its ashes, so to speak) which rising I believe will go beyond this present age and be seen clearly by all, a true witness, "for we shall be like Him"...

When the bridegroom comes - I've read (somewhere, briefly, so don't know that much about it) that in the Hebrew wedding, the bridegroom comes carried on a platform, he reaches out his hand for the bride and the bride steps up to meet him at his coming..  And thus (1st resurrection) "He comes with ten thousands of His saints" - Jude 1:14 (1 thess 3:13) and ushers in the Millennium of His rule.. which all who have ever lived, I believe, will see, those natural "survivors" of this age, and then all those of the "2nd resurrection" (the not yet saved) during the great 'day' of the White Throne Judgment (imo, great day of review)

It's my belief we are being prepared now for the work we will do during the millennium and during the (an) age of 'judgment' (discerning). I don't know if others agree with me, but I believe man's world and empires will utterly crash and fall. That the fall is the unveiling of truth from untruth. The utter collapse (collective culmination) which will prove the utter stupidity and futility of wandering away from Him in any tiny way - in thought, word or deed.. I guess I believe that only from the ashes of this wrongness-world-age, will come the thorough convincing of all in heaven and earth.. Otherwise I believe He could just program the truth into all, but instead will be a thorough convincing by experience and witness of the full results of building on sand and not the Rock. :2c: Like each of us has been convinced of the folly of our carnal nature, by our individual crash and burning, so collective, when man's world 'crashes and burns' as the saying goes..

New heavens and a new earth - new wineskin..

[sheila]

Maybe the bride coming down is for this purpose only...'I shall comfort ye,as a Mother comforts her child"  Maybe the revelation

  at this time..of all being saved,restored...when everything to the eyes seems to have come to naught..and fallen into a heap of rubble

is just that.Maybe it's only the faith..hope and love in such a time as this..as we wait for ours..and the whole worlds deliverance.?

   Maybe she is to 'dandle upon her knee" her sinsick children..and comfort them in their misery?

 

[sheila]

her adornment is her children...He grants her 'her hearts desire' even the salvation of all sinsick/dying suffering humanity" Maybe it

is her bridal gift from Him?Maybe before she travails she gives birth..a nation born in a day!

[rosered]

John 1  ;16 


The Word Made His Dwelling among Us :HeartThrob:


...15John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"


16For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace.


17For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ....


  :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

shortly before I was given the revelation of the salvation of all men...I was given a dream/vision in the night.........

    in one pang I delivered a son.....He was the very image of His Father..but very thin..I was somewhat taken aback over it..for I have

no earthly womb..did not even know I was with child...and my husband was away on business..and I was unsure what he would

think about this developement/even though the child was His very likeness. I named the child 'John"


   I was in a hospital at the time of this vision..and I became very thirsty and hungry..and went to the cafeteria to drink/eat...

  and when I went back up to my child..I found he had been left all alone..and dismissed from the hospital..and placed in a stairwell.

   I had no money or way home...I had no diapers/or way to change the baby...all I had was milk to nurse the baby,until my

  husband returned.

  what I percieve as the interpretation of the dream/vision. The son John is the representation of the revelation of Jesus Christ and the

salvation of All men. The hospital is the ministry of healing and restoration and fruitfulness and bearing the image of the son/Father.

...in the stairwell/ascension..not in my power to change the baby..just to comfort and nurse the baby as we wait for my husbands

return and He will take us home.

[sheila]

milk for babes.......self-centeredness is the root of immaturity..yet our very ministry here at tentmaker is for such ones as these.......

  many 'choke' on meat......Paul had this same problem in His day..not seeing the growth he expected/hoped for......and

  prophesied that after he left there would be those that would not treat the flock with tenderness..was that the dung?

was that the discipline/correction that forced growth?.

  surely they're is more to raising a babe then nursing them with milk and stroking their ears..but Mother's are prone to say...

  'You just wait til your Father gets home!"

[Dandelion]

Amen and amen, EW!

I think one of the key factors of us preparing for the wedding feast is to empty ourselves of us, and allow the Holy Spirit to fill us to the brim, with Him. Actually, that is usually my answer for many things, relating to a firm relationship with God. As Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a Lutheran theologian and Pastor, who plotted to kill Hitler and died in a concentration camp,  said, "When all is said and done, the life of faith is nothing if not an unending struggle of the spirit with every available weapon against the flesh."

...23And Jesus answered them, saying, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25"He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal....John 12:23 - 25

24verily, verily, I say to you, if the grain of the wheat, having fallen to the earth, may not die, itself remaineth alone; and if it may die, it doth bear much fruit; 25he who is loving his life shall lose it, and he who is hating his life in this world — to life age-during shall keep it; Young's Literal Translation  John 12:23 - 25

In our society, the concept of dying to one's self, doesn't seem very popular or compatible with societal norms. Our society wants sophistication; power; youth; wealth; fame; prestige and enjoyments of the flesh. Correct me if I am mistaken. It is not everyone, all the time, everywhere......but it is pervasive and like a whirlpool that is hard to pull one's self away from.

I agree with Shelia: self-centeredness is the root of immaturity.

D.                             :iagree:

[jugghead]

All in All

What we may perceive as a little tibit of truth .... new wine into old wineskins ..... is in fact the whole truth summed up in one statement

You cannot pour the understanding of UR into an old wineskin of ET

This little picture is a picture of the Baptism of Christ ..... the dove descending upon Christ .... Christ the new wineskin/Spirit is the wine
This little picture is a picture of marriage/Covenant ..... Christ being One with the Father/a full wineskin
This little picture is a picture of Pouring .... The pouring out of the Spirit upon all mankind/His process in us

The filling up of the wineskin is a picture of Christ/Spirit growing in us

It is all about the process we enter into .... Christ living out His Life in us as we continue to understand what He FINISHED for us

A constant filling to know we are filled in order for it to overflow to others

He never ceases to amaze me .... Glory to Him who has justified

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.

[Dandelion]

.........so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith...........

Love this whole Biblical excerpt, with, I think the above being my favorite piece.

D.

[marie glen]

All in All

What we may perceive as a little tibit of truth .... new wine into old wineskins ..... is in fact the whole truth summed up in one statement

You cannot pour the understanding of UR into an old wineskin of ET

This little picture is a picture of the Baptism of Christ ..... the dove descending upon Christ .... Christ the new wineskin/Spirit is the wine
This little picture is a picture of marriage/Covenant ..... Christ being One with the Father/a full wineskin
This little picture is a picture of Pouring .... The pouring out of the Spirit upon all mankind/His process in us

The filling up of the wineskin is a picture of Christ/Spirit growing in us

It is all about the process we enter into .... Christ living out His Life in us as we continue to understand what He FINISHED for us

A constant filling to know we are filled in order for it to overflow to others

He never ceases to amaze me .... Glory to Him who has justified

Jugghead when I read this, it was like I could just see the Spirit like water splashing.. and overflowing.. :cloud9:

..not in my power to change the baby..just to comfort and nurse the baby as we wait for my husbands

return and He will take us home.

    :cloud9: I love your analogy Sheila!!  :iagree: :thumbsup: gives a beautiful picture..

[rosered]

  Hi Marie I always considered   the  old wine skins are   for the old wine  , Like Jugg shared beautifully  by the way  :HeartThrob:

  Just like th day old manna    was ,    It was used for that time  and place   under the Law  of judgement  and death..

  The old  manna  got wormy and the old wineskins would bust   from worn out old age   , past their use   and time ..

While under the law of grace   all things are new  like daily bread / Word of God   and   new  wine   the fresh squeezed grapes
   the old grapes of wrath  have soured and turned to vinegar     the Levite priesthood changed    and   Jesus Christ  sets into   place  in our vessels and used  for the   service of Gods love and the  pouring out   the  as   the Melchisedec    priesthood   of old under the   covenant of Abraham  ,  the Children of faith and   by the  day  light , no longer the moon light      darkness  of night


  Gen 14 17Then after his return from the defeat of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with him, the king of Sodom went out to meet him at the valley of Shaveh (that is, the King's Valley). 18And Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; now he was a priest of God Most High. 19He blessed him and said, "Blessed be Abram of God Most High, Possessor of heaven and earth;...

Hebrews 5:6
And he says in another place, "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."

Hebrews 5:10
and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

Hebrews 7:1
This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him,

Psalm 76:2
His tent is in Salem, his dwelling place in Zion.

Psalm 104:15
wine that gladdens human hearts, oil to make their faces shine, and bread that sustains their hearts.

Psalm 110:4
The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."

I see Jesus Christ as this   very priesthood and servant of all  ,   was , is and will be .  Till God be all in all ..