Healthcare

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: Not pertaining to healthcare comment here; is anyone aware that Obama is busy putting in devout Muslims in key positions, including our National Security department? I find that unsettling personally, only 8 years after 911. Blessings.....

I don't know, but it sounds like a typical right-wing rumor that very well may be untrue.   You know like "He was born in Kenya" and is actually a "Muslim" etc... all lies. 
Why isn't Karl Rove in jail?

Anne

:cloud9: This was an article I read in the news. Blessings...

[natcat86]

You have some free clinics, which is brilliant but unfortunately a lot of people are suffering under the current health care system. That is not slander it is a fact. The people benefiting the most from the current system are the health insurance companies, their lobbiests and the members of your government they bribe with campaign donations (Obama included). I would be slandering the US if what I said was false but it isnt. 45,000 people die a year from not being insured. http://pnhp.org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-adults.pdf

[Molly]

You have some free clinics, which is brilliant but unfortunately a lot of people are suffering under the current health care system. That is not slander it is a fact. The people benefiting the most from the current system are the health insurance companies, their lobbiests and the members of your government they bride with campaign donations (Obama included). I would be slandering the US if what I said was false but it isnt. 45,000 people die a year from not being insured. http://pnhp.org/excessdeaths/health-insurance-and-mortality-in-US-adults.pdf

The first sentence of that article cited the bogus '46 million' figure therefore the rest of the article goes in the wastebasket without even reading it.  The figure is more like ten million and that number could be easily absorbed by medicare/medicaid.

I just told you there are plenty of free clinics in all the cities in this country so that no one without healthcare should ever do without.  According to the BBC a lot of people are dying in your country from rationed government healthcare, so you are hardly one to throw stones or offer a better solution.

Other than noncitizens, most of the people who do not have healthcare in this country, don't have it because they don't want it.

[natcat86]

 :sigh: I am objective enough to say that the NHS has problems. I have! I gave you an example from my own experience, I'm not arrogant enough to say that applies to everyone in UK.  I am certainly not one to offer a better solution, thats what you voted Obama in to do. I wish we were as lucky as you guys to have an opertuntiy for a complete over hall of the system. Your government has the chance to put partisen politics aside and do something amazing, we have a leader we didn't even vote for! (Oh wait you've been there dont that :laugh2: )

If there are plenty of free clinics then is it stupidity or irresponsibilty on the part of those who die from lack of treatment or are the numerous accounts in the news of people suffering for lack of insurance, personal testimonies I have heard from people I know in america all fabrications?

You keep making this personal, which is fine I guess, but I really dont understand why you would want to defend a system that is killing people. :dontknow:

[Molly]

:sigh: I am objective enough to say that the NHS has problems. I have! I gave you an example from my own experience, I'm not arrogant enough to say that applies to everyone in UK.  I am certainly not one to offer a better solution, thats what you voted Obama in to do. I wish we were as lucky as you guys to have an opertuntiy for a complete over hall of the system. Your government has the chance to put partisen politics aside and do something amazing, we have a leader we didn't even vote for! (Oh wait you've been there dont that :laugh2: )

If there are plenty of free clinics then is it stupidity or irresponsibilty on the part of those who die from lack of treatment or are the numerous accounts in the news of people suffering for lack of insurance, personal testimonies I have heard from people I know in america all fabrications?

You keep making this personal, which is fine I guess, but I really dont understand why you would want to defend a system that is killing people. :dontknow:

I thought you had the perfect system.  Why would you want a complete overhaul?

Put partisan politics aside? Are you kidding me?  A democratic Congress and a democratic President are ramming something down our throats that they have been trying to do since the days of Hilary and Bill Clinton.  However, they are still not doing what they were elected to do--stop the war.


You bet it's personal.  This is going to affect my life, my doctors, and my Constitution.  Can't get more personal than that.

Come over here and get sick and dial 911 and get the best medical care in the world right now, with or without insurance.  They'll even give you a ride to the hospital.  And it won't take two hours like it took them to get Diana to the hospital.

[WhiteWings]

Did it ever occur to you, WW,  that a lot of doctors in this country donate their time for free?

:blahgreen: :blah: :blahgreen: :blah:

Go to Russia to live and see how great their healthcare is.

Off-topic

Stop slandering our country.

Trust me; natcat isn't needed for that :laughing7:  

All the big hospitals also have free clinics, run by the best doctors in the hospital.

You point is?

If this is such a terrible place to have babies, why are women from other countries coming here so often to have babies?

Ok now I see. The USA is a socialist country with free-riders :laughing7:

I don't want to say this Molly but your superiority complex has taken you to the point you need a dog.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:6ArTvpiRYSzDCM:http://www.vegansoapbox.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Guide-Dog2.jpg)Free ofcourse!

[Raggedy Anne]

Yeah, so we might as well let bureaucrats decide instead of doctors, right?  

The insurance companies now tell doctors what to do, what will be covered and not covered.  It's like the corporate control of health care.  Not to mention, God forbid I want a prescription refill before the very day my medicine runs out (which interferes with travel plans since I can't get my prescriptions filled in another state).  Therefore, if I want to go out of state for a holiday or whatever reason, it best not fall on the wrong date when I need to get my blood pressure medicine, otherwise, I'm trapped at home.   And you know that is the truth, Molly!  We are currently being held hostage by the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies.  America is in the 4th stage of Capitalist Cancer.  
And because we are a completely divided nation, we are headed for civil war unless God intervenes.  It happened before.  We have a very bloody history, not to mention we are a nation that was born of rebellion and it was a fight over money of course.   And don't give me the fake story about how we fought for religious freedom.  The Puritans were savage brutes who had no mercy on the natives.  

Anne

[natcat86]

Diana died in France but that was real classy of you. Not going to discuss this with you anymore Molly beacuse you are twisting my words or maybe you just havent read my replies. I never said we had a perfect system. You are twisting my words again. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt earlier when I was the one who brought up the fact that you will have to live it not me but you made it personal. I dont want to discuss it with you anymore becuase you sound a lot like an angry Glenn Beck viewer and not a lot like Jesus.

But I will continue to pray that God's perfect will be done in my country and yours.

:HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

Come over here and get sick and dial 911 and get the best medical care in the world right now, with or without insurance.  They'll even give you a ride to the hospital.  And it won't take two hours like it took them to get Diana to the hospital.

Here in Russia we have to wait 6 hours. Sorry 6 minits. Plus 2 minutes to verify the Party membership number.... :laughing7:

[Raggedy Anne]

Here's a list of some of the free medical and dental clinics in Cincinnati, Ohio, a city picked at random.

Stop slandering our country.  All the big hospitals also have free clinics, run by the best doctors in the hospital.


http://www.freemedicalcamps.com/vcamp.php?cityid=1172

B.S.

America is not the greatest nation on earth Molly.  I know you've been fed that since you were able to crawl, but it's just not true.   We may be the greediest nation on earth.  And possibly the most arrogant and sinful nation on earth.  Seems like that would be obvious to you since you live here.  Have you not been witness to all the corruption that has been exposed, and all the pornography and weapons we produce - that is all we make now.  We peddle pornography and weapons of mass destruction.  You really ought to humble yourself.  The Day of the Lord is upon us.  No flesh will glory in His presence.

Anne

[Molly]

The insurance companies now tell doctors what to do, what will be covered and not covered.  It's like the corporate control of health care.

That's mostly because of the HMO's.   You pay less for insurance on an HMO but this is the fallout because HMO's are run on the Harvard Business School model.  Any doctor worth his salt knows how to justify his treatment to the insurance companies.

Not to mention, God forbid I want a prescription refill before the very day my medicine runs out (which interferes with travel plans since I can't get my prescriptions filled in another state).

Ask your doctor for a 3 month prescription.  Solves that problem in a New York minute.

We are currently being held hostage by the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies.  America is in the 4th stage of Capitalist Cancer. 

This coud be solved at the state level.  The state is allowing them to hold us hostage by limiting the competition, among other things.  Right now only a few insurers are allowed in your state by state law.  Open it up to all the insurers and watch the game change overnight with good old fashioned captialism.

And, by the way, WW, you have to give me something to work with other than calling me names.  I already have a superior dog. :laughing7:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It appears a reminder is needed..........from the "What you MAY NOT DO" thread under board rules and regulations. Everyone take a deep breath, step back, and remember that the next time one of us needs prayer, almost every regular on this board is right there to pray; that says a lot about character.

For these one warning may be given and then if repeated, you will be banned without further explanation.  The ban may be of time duration but rather expect it to be permanent.

1. Trolling.
2. Baiting.
3. Flaming.
4. Calling out any member's views/opinions as stupid, dumb, crazy etc. viz. insults.
5. Public criticism of moderation decisions.
6. Starting a new thread of a similar topic as one that is recently locked.

[Molly]

America is not the greatest nation on earth Molly.  I know you've been fed that since you were able to crawl, but it's just not true.   We may be the greediest nation on earth.  And possibly the most arrogant and sinful nation on earth.  Seems like that would be obvious to you since you live here.  Have you not been witness to all the corruption that has been exposed, and all the pornography and weapons we produce - that is all we make now.  We peddle pornography and weapons of mass destruction.  You really ought to humble yourself.  The Day of the Lord is upon us.  No flesh will glory in His presence.

I see the ideal rather than the reality.  There are a lot of wonderful people in this country who hold to our founding principles and do their best to uphold them even in this terrible political climate we have been in for years.

This country has a lot of enemies who have been trying to overthrow it since its founding.  The only thing new about that is they are getting very close to succeeding.

[WhiteWings]

And, by the way, WW, you have to give me something to work with other than calling me names.  I already have a superior dog. :laughing7:

I did so often Molly. For you things are simple. If it is not exactly like the US it's communist.
But I made a claim. Just read my last post.
The USA is a socialist nation.
Now prove me wrong while reading your own claims. You can't. *
Perhaps I got that wrong. Under the Bush administraion the USA was a socialist state.
Obama was born in Stalingrad and is changing the USA in a communist state. :winkgrin:

*=USA is not socialist. But you have no clue what socialist means.
You think to much in black and white.
A few hours ago you answered RA she should not think left/right. But then you only think
USA-Good. World bad.
USA-Capitalism. World-Communism.

[WhiteWings]

I see the ideal rather than the reality.

That is honest.

There are a lot of wonderful people in this country

But all the people outside the USA have goat legs and horns?

[Molly]

And, by the way, WW, you have to give me something to work with other than calling me names.  I already have a superior dog. :laughing7:

I did so often Molly. For you things are simple. If it is not exactly like the US it's communist.
But I made a claim. Just read my last post.
The USA is a socialist nation.
Now prove me wrong while reading your own claims. You can't. *
Perhaps I got that wrong. Under the Bush administraion the USA was a socialist state.
Obama was born in Stalingrad and is changing the USA in a communist state. :winkgrin:

*=USA is not socialist. But you have no clue what socialist means.
You think to much in black and white.
A few hours ago you answered RA she should not think left/right. But then you only think
USA-Good. World bad.
USA-Capitalism. World-Communism.

I've been railing about it for years, ww.  You just didn't hear me.  We are the greatest experiment in freedom on the face of the earth--yes I believe that.  This does not sit well with our enemies.  Nor will it ever sit well with those wanting a one world government, a return to world tyranny, or a return to feudalism.  Once we lose our freedoms, the whole world will go dim. 

We need to return to our roots and take back our government while it is still possible.

[WhiteWings]

So everyone who disagrees with you is an enemy of freedom. Is that what you are saying?

[natcat86]

you sound a lot like an angry Glenn Beck viewer and not a lot like Jesus.

just to clarify this was directed at your tone Molly not your views. But sorry either way cuz it wasnt kind.   :mblush:

[jabcat]

Why don't we stop and think for a second that not everyone that likes Glenn Beck and agree with many of his views are not haters.  Also, not everyone that agree with Barack Obama are haters.  Many people on both sides have their heads in the sand.  Some on the far right extreme are angry, twisted haters.  On the other hand, some on the far left extreme are angry, twisted haters.

Why don't we try to keep things more in the middle here and focus more on the things of the Kingdom, including that God's in the process of reconciling all to Himself?  

UR board - Gary's request.

[natcat86]

Why don't we stop and think for a second that not everyone that likes Glenn Beck and agree with many of his views are not haters.  Also, not everyone that agree with Barack Obama are haters.  Many people on both sides have their heads in the sand.  Some on the far right extreme are angry, twisted haters.  On the other hand, some on the far left extreme are angry, twisted haters.

Why don't we try to keep things more in the middle here and focus more on the things of the Kingdom, including that God's in the process of reconciling all to Himself?  

UR board - Gary's request.

Thats why I appologised because I mis-spoke. So appologies again to anyone I offended.

[jabcat]

It wasn't solely directed at you - I believe all of us, including me can benefit.

[natcat86]

 :girlheart:

[WhiteWings]

Why don't we stop and think for a second that not everyone that likes Glenn Beck

I have no clue who that is.

Also, not everyone that agree with Barack Obama are haters.

The things I hate about Obama what I hate about all split tongue politians. And that doesn't depent if that politician is green, purple or blue.

Why don't we try to keep things more in the middle here and focus more on the things of the Kingdom, including that God's in the process of reconciling all to Himself?  
UR board - Gary's request.

Well what can I say. I made my points. Asked my questions. And unless they are answered instead of bypassed I try  :footmouth:
No apologies from me (would be a lie). But I'll try to step a bit to the background to honor the wish of Gary :winkgrin:

[jabcat]

Thanks Nat.  



**Note - this is NOT just a rant for Nat  :bigGrin:.  I need it too.  EDIT*  I wrote this before seeing your post WW, and I personally very well may agree with you more than you know.   :wink:

OK, this is what I had written:

You know, the thing is, if I say "I think Barack Obama stinks, the Democrats are idiots, many of them are so open minded their brains have fallen out" (or the opposite for the "other side of the aisle") then I really don't know who I'm offending, who I'm hurting, or what dischord that may stir up.  

I actually have some quite firm beliefs on some things political - concerns about what leaders are saying and doing.  I just think we need to handle with care, that political views should not get in the way of our MAIN focus, including unity among believers - as much as is possible.  There are issues that can divide us, and issues that can unite us.  How should we approach those topics, and which ones should we spend most of our time on?  Hard to know sometimes - I know some of these are important issues, but easy does it, eh?

If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.  Romans 12:18

[Molly]

So everyone who disagrees with you is an enemy of freedom. Is that what you are saying?

I didn't say that.  But, whereas you might find socialized medicine consistent with your form of government, I do not find it consistent with mine.  And, if people disagree with me I'm wiling to explain why I feel that way, which actually I already have.

Also, if it's not broke, don't fix it.  There is no reason to change our whole way of doing business when a smaller fix would solve the problem.

These people have an agenda, and it's not healthcare IMO.

We do not need a 2000 page bill setting up all kinds of bureaucracies and God knows what else to fix whatever is currently wrong with our healthcare.

That's 2000 pages of new laws! :msealed:

I don't even think War and Peace is 2000 pages long, and that book went on forever.