Tomorrow is the Day of Atonement and then comes the Feast of Tabernacles and Last Great Day.
These are kept by orthodox Jews, Messianic Jews and some Christians.
I would like to know how members of this forum view these days. I no longer believe they are to be kept physically.
Are they to be kept spiritually, and if so HOW? God calls these observances as His feasts!
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
CLV Lv 23:2 Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, The appointed seasons of Yahweh, those which you shall proclaim holy meetings; My appointed seasons, they are these:
It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
I have never observed those particular days.
If you are going to have a party though and invite me, I'll be there.
:)
:feast:
I view them in various ways:
1. As an anniversary event, such as marriage. Fulfilled in the past yes, but still very meaningful as one celebrates each year.
2. As keeping them in the newness of the spirit, not the oldness of the letter, I keep them physically (will fast for Yom HaKippurim and dwell in a temporary shelter for 7 days for Sukkot) even as I love my neighbor as myself in physical ways (providing for those in need, for example) on the days He set aside by His heavenly clock, and then each and every day spiritually as well. I see it just as much error to keep something in some spiritual way if it is divorced from the physical expression of it (be warm and well-fed, and yet do not provide for someone), as I do the keeping of something in a purely physical way if it is divorced from the spiritual (going through the motions). I believe the physical and spiritual were meant to be expressed in union, not separated as if one is good and the other evil.
3. As being able to relive and learn Father's complete plan of redemption in very practical, down to earth lessons, much like going to a movie to watch an event, only better, because you are experiencing it yourself.
4. As opportunities to express thankfulness to our Father, in some ways similar to those who celebrate the American Thanksgiving.
Ronen
QuoteI see it just as much error to keep something in some spiritual way if it is divorced from the physical expression of it (be warm and well-fed, and yet do not provide for someone), as I do the keeping of something in a purely physical way if it is divorced from the spiritual (going through the motions). I believe the physical and spiritual were meant to be expressed in union, not separated as if one is good and the other evil.
Hi Ronen,
I personally believe that observing days physically or materially is fine as long as it is not enforced on other Christians, which I think we both agree on.
Now, regarding the above statement specifically, it does seem that Paul disregarded the physical application of circumcision for the spiritual application, don't you think?
In other words, Paul didn't teach that it was error to remain uncircumcised and observe circumcision spiritually only, right? He didn't command them to observe both. I am particularly responding to your use of the word "error." It seems to me that you are creating an equivalence between providing for a brother physically with observing holy days physically. I don't really see an equivalence there, leading to error in those who do provide for a brother physically but do not observe days physically.
No.
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 04, 2014, 02:20:59 AM
No.
Micah, please explain. I, as along time member of the Worldwide Church of God and one who observed the Spring and Fall holy days as taught by the church. I believed that to be a scripturally sound belief. But now I find some difficulty reconciling the fact that I understand the deep spiritual significance of this magnificent plan of God and how I am to respect it as a Christian. I can no longer attend with my former Christians who treat the holy days as physically required. And I do not perscribe to many of the former doctrines which I once adhered too. What say you?
Gal 4:9 and now, having known God--and rather being known by God--how turn ye again unto the weak and poor elements to which anew ye desire to be in servitude?
Gal 4:10 days ye observe, and months, and times, and years!
Gal 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest in vain I did labour toward you.
Should one feel the need or want....do it. I do not find any significance in observing such days.
Not myself. I'm not a Jew under the Law before the cross of Christ. I believe every moment of every day is the Lord's.
Amen to that, brother.
I believe and know that each day is the Lord's :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
Quote from: Seth on October 03, 2014, 09:19:59 PM
QuoteI see it just as much error to keep something in some spiritual way if it is divorced from the physical expression of it (be warm and well-fed, and yet do not provide for someone), as I do the keeping of something in a purely physical way if it is divorced from the spiritual (going through the motions). I believe the physical and spiritual were meant to be expressed in union, not separated as if one is good and the other evil.
Hi Ronen,
I personally believe that observing days physically or materially is fine as long as it is not enforced on other Christians, which I think we both agree on.
Now, regarding the above statement specifically, it does seem that Paul disregarded the physical application of circumcision for the spiritual application, don't you think?
In other words, Paul didn't teach that it was error to remain uncircumcised and observe circumcision spiritually only, right? He didn't command them to observe both. I am particularly responding to your use of the word "error." It seems to me that you are creating an equivalence between providing for a brother physically with observing holy days physically. I don't really see an equivalence there, leading to error in those who do provide for a brother physically but do not observe days physically.
I believe if one says they are observing anything that does not find expression in the person (coming from an inward reality) outwardly (which is what I mean by physical), then they are in error yes. The observing of the moedim in a physical way is not the ultimate goal of what Father gave them for, it is a means toward an end, which again, will find itself expressed in outward, physical, practical and tangible ways.
For example, let us take the moed chag matzot, as an example. If I observe it physically by only eating matzah for 7 days, and yet people around me see malice and evil in how I treat others, what good does that physical observance do? None, as it is divorced from the spiritual reality of sincerity and truth.
If, on the other hand, I speak of the reality that chag matzot points to, and yet people around me see malice and evil in how I treat others, then I am in my mind observing the spiritual, but divorcing it from the physical. That is the same sense that I have in mind when I speak of someone saying to someone, 'be warm and well fed', and yet, having the means to help them physically, choose not to do so.
When I speak of the physical with regard to the moedim, I am not referring to the physical things that are done during those times. I believe they are great teaching moments and expressions of thanksgiving, but they are not the end in themselves. The physical with regard to the moedim, I believe, has to do with the physical, practical, outworkings of the spirit within in how we relate to our Master and each other. In the example I (actually Paul) gave, the physical expression behind chag matzot is not abstaining of chametz for a week, but living (not merely speaking) a life (pictured by the 7 days) of sincerity and truth.
To use another example, if I observe anniversary's with my wife, and give her gifts and take her out to eat on those days, yet during the rest of the year I neglect her and do not passionately love and provide for her, then I have missed the point of what an anniversary points to. I am observing the physical and disregarding the spiritual. That day should be a reminder and teaching aid to me of how I should live with my wife out of the spiritual reality of our oneness of flesh and blood covenant (the breaking of the hymen in the first act of coming together intimately), not just during that day, but every day of the year.
This is personal for me, and cannot be applied to anyone else but themselves and their conscience, but if I did not observe an anniversary with my wife each year, although not a requirement, nor a law that must be done, I do it because it provides an opportunity for something special, even though I love and provide for my wife every other day of the year. It is the same for me with the moedim. I observe them because they provide opportunities of special things for me and my family together. For those who do not find to be anything more than ritualistic things for those Jews, something that brings bondage, then I would encourage those to have nothing to do with them.
Ronen
Thank you for clarifying. I understand better what you mean. The bottom line with everyone is how we treat others. What good is it if one says he has faith and no works, can that faith save him? :thumbsup: