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The work God requires: Believe

Started by irenic-inkwell, September 23, 2013, 07:04:48 PM

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irenic-inkwell

John 6:29 (HCSB)
Jesus replied, 'This is the work of God - that you believe in the One He has sent.

John 6:29 (AMP)
Jesus replied, this is the work (service) that God asks of you:  that you believe in the One Whom He has sent [to cleave to, trust, rely on, have faith in His Messenger)

========================

John 6:27-28
Work not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life ... then they said to Him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?


OT
Isaiah 55:2-3 (NLT)
Why spend your money on food that does not give you strength?  Why pay for food that does you no good?  Listen to me, and you will eat what is good.  You will enjoy the finest food.

Come to Me with your ears wide open.  Listen, and you will find life.  I will make an everlasting covenant with you.  I WILL GIVE YOU ALL THE UNFAILING LOVE I PROMISED TO DAVID.

JulieTang84

#1
Quote from: irenic-inkwell on September 23, 2013, 07:04:48 PM
John 6:29 (HCSB)
Jesus replied, 'This is the work of God - that you believe in the One He has sent.

John 6:29 (AMP)
Jesus replied, this is the work (service) that God asks of you:  that you believe in the One Whom He has sent [to cleave to, trust, rely on, have faith in His Messenger)

========================

John 6:27-28
Work not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life ... then they said to Him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?


OT
Isaiah 55:2-3 (NLT)
Why spend your money on food that does not give you strength?  Why pay for food that does you no good?  Listen to me, and you will eat what is good.  You will enjoy the finest food.

Come to Me with your ears wide open.  Listen, and you will find life.  I will make an everlasting covenant with you.  I WILL GIVE YOU ALL THE UNFAILING LOVE I PROMISED TO DAVID.


Here is my understanding, take from it what you will as it likely contradicts the beliefs of most.

It is so difficult believing or even wanting to believe would be fairy tails of a man that walked on water, healed the sick, turned water into wine, etc. Of course, I was told many years ago, that all I lacked was faith and questions were not a substitute.

Jesus the Way to the Father - John 14
5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Is Jesus really saying: You know the Father because you know me; here in the flesh?

8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Well Jesus is saying: Any one that has seen me has seen the Father.

10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

A-Ha, two physical beings cannot be within each other, but two SPIRITUAL beings can, as they are one.

11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing,and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 "If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

So this is where my understanding differs from many doctrines.

John 6:29 (HCSB)
Jesus replied, 'This is the work of God - that you believe in the One He has sent.


Who did Jesus send? The Spirit of Truth
How many Truths are there? How many Spirt of Truths are their?
As we learned earlier, Jesus was speaking "Spiritually." There is only one!

18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.Because I live, you also will live.

So who did Jesus say would come? Who would his Spiritual brothers and sisters see?

20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

So, are we required to believe a 2000 yr old story at the expense of Spirit of Christ within each and everyone of us. I say NO!!!!! NEVER!!!!!

We must ALWAYS be TRUE the Small Still Voice within us, the one that IS ALL TRUTH, ALL PEACE and ALL LOVE.

If we are anything other than any of these EVER, we are dishonoring the Spirit and personified Jesus Christ, who was the perfect example of the Power of Love, Faith and Trust.

This Spirit is Whom Jesus promised to send.

Is this not reason enough to REJOICE forever and live in pure joy and all peace and an unwavering LOVE for all.

I say YES!!!!!!  :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

Love Julie  :girlheart:

Tom

#2
Quote from: JulieTang84 on September 23, 2013, 08:01:30 PM
Quote from: irenic-inkwell on September 23, 2013, 07:04:48 PM
John 6:29 (HCSB)
Jesus replied, 'This is the work of God - that you believe in the One He has sent.

John 6:29 (AMP)
Jesus replied, this is the work (service) that God asks of you:  that you believe in the One Whom He has sent [to cleave to, trust, rely on, have faith in His Messenger)

========================

John 6:27-28
Work not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life ... then they said to Him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?


OT
Isaiah 55:2-3 (NLT)
Why spend your money on food that does not give you strength?  Why pay for food that does you no good?  Listen to me, and you will eat what is good.  You will enjoy the finest food.

Come to Me with your ears wide open.  Listen, and you will find life.  I will make an everlasting covenant with you.  I WILL GIVE YOU ALL THE UNFAILING LOVE I PROMISED TO DAVID.


Here is my understanding, take from it what you will as it likely contradicts the beliefs of most.

It is so difficult believing or even wanting to believe would be fairy tails of a man that walked on water, healed the sick, turned water into wine, etc. Of course, I was told many years ago, that all I lacked was faith and questions were not a substitute.

Jesus the Way to the Father - John 14
5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Is Jesus really saying: You know the Father because you know me; here in the flesh?

8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Well Jesus is saying: Any one that has seen me has seen the Father.

10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

A-Ha, two physical beings cannot be within each other, but two SPIRITUAL beings can, as they are one.

11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing,and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 "If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

So this is where my understanding differs from many doctrines.

John 6:29 (HCSB)
Jesus replied, 'This is the work of God - that you believe in the One He has sent.


Who did Jesus send? The Spirit of Truth
How many Truths are there? How many Spirt of Truths are their?
As we learned earlier, Jesus was speaking "Spiritually." There is only one!

18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.Because I live, you also will live.

So who did Jesus say would come? Who would his Spiritual brothers and sisters see?

20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

So, are we required to believe a 2000 yr old story at the expense of Spirit of Christ within each and everyone of us. I say NO!!!!! NEVER!!!!!

We must ALWAYS be TRUE the Small Still Voice within us, the one that IS ALL TRUTH, ALL PEACE and ALL LOVE.

If we are anything other than any of these EVER, we are dishonoring the Spirit and personified Jesus Christ, who was the perfect example of the Power of Love, Faith and Trust.

This Spirit is Whom Jesus promised to send.

Is this not reason enough to REJOICE forever and live in pure joy and all peace and an unwavering LOVE for all.

I say YES!!!!!!  :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

Love Julie  :girlheart:

When I was a kid, I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church where the priest read from this big fat book on the altar that was in Latin. So most folks didn't know what he was saying until he finally said something in English, and then he wasn't teaching from scripture but from church doctrine. I really didn't know anything about scripture then. After I left the church because I knew something wasn't right, I was agnostic for awhile, and I figured scripture was just a bunch of stories written by some spaced out religious fanatics way back when. This was back in the sixties when it seemed like a good idea to try psychedelics for a spiritual experience. I also became interested in Eastern philosophies like Zen and Tao. It wasn't until my out of body experience that I became convinced that scripture really is the word of God. The "2000 year old story" is HIStory concerning the universe and mankind as well as the instruction manual of how to live in the here and now and a prophetic book of what's to come in the future involving the earth and the whole universe. There is no other book as comprehensive in scope as scripture, but you can believe it or not. If you don't believe it and live by it, you're subject to any well disguised deception that is simply a trap of the Adversary. Of course miracles are hard to understand and believe because there is always a leap of faith required. The world thinks we're fools for believing, but we have peace in the midst of our persecution because spirit may be invisible but it is real and powerful. Without knowing the truth about the spirit of God, you are subject to any spirit, and deception is the effective method of operation used by the powers of darkness. That's why I now know all the other things I tried while I was seeking the truth were just diversionary tactics of the Adversary trying to keep me from becoming aware of the truth. The word of God is truth, and we are blessed to have the inspired written word of God. People died in the past because the church killed them simply for reading the word of God. The church never wanted folks to know what the word of God says because it is the truth that frees you from the religious hypocrisy of the church as well as the fear of death and the worries of this world. Continue to seek the truth in the word of God, and God will reveal it to you. Stay focused on the word of God so you're not deceived.

"that we may by no means still be minors, surging hither and thither and being carried about by every wind of teaching, by human caprice, by craftiness with a view to the systematizing of the deception" (Ephesians 4:14)

"Herald the word. Stand by it, opportunely, inopportunely, expose, rebuke, entreat, with all patience and teaching. For the era will be when they will not tolerate sound teaching, but, their hearing being tickled, they will heap up for themselves teachers in accord with their own desires, and, indeed, they will be turning their hearing away from the truth, yet will be turned aside to myths." (2 Timothy 4:2-4)

How do you define this "love" of which you speak?

"Greater love than this has no one, that anyone may be laying down his soul for his friends." (John 15:13)

"And we know and believe the love which God has in us. God is love, and he who is remaining in love is remaining in God, and God is remaining in him." (1 John 4:16)

Christ always pointed toward the Father because he is the word of God who came out from the Father.

"In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. This was in the beginning toward God." (John 1:1,2)

"And the Word became flesh and tabernacles among us, and we gaze at His glory, a glory as of an only-begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)

"He is clothed in a cloak dipped in blood, and His name is called "The Word of God."" (Revelation 19:13)

"I came out from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I am leaving the world and am going to the Father." (John 16:28)

Christ is also the image of the invisible God. An image is a representation of something not the actual thing itself. A picture of you represents you, but it is not actually you.

"Now, if our evangel is covered, also, it is covered in those who are perishing, in whom the god of this eon blinds the apprehensions of the unbelieving so that the illumination of the evangel of the glory of Christ, Who is the Image of the invisible God, does not irradiate them." (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

"Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature" (Colossians 1:15)

"God is spirit" (John 4:24).

Christ and the Father are one in spirit.

"I and the Father, We are one." (John 10:30)

The Father, Christ, and we are one in spirit. The amazing thing about the holy spirit of God is that it is the power of love that we all have in common.

"And I have given them the glory which Thou has given Me, that they may be one, according as We are One, I in them and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in one, and that the world may know that Thou dost commission Me and dost love them according as Thou dost love Me." (John 17:22,23)

Though Christ and the Father and we are one in spirit, Christ and the Father are two distinct entities.

"Father, if it is Thy intention, carry aside this cup from Me. However, not My will, but Thine, be done!" (Luke 22:42)

"According as the living Father commissions Me, I, also, am living because of the Father." (John 6:57)

"Jesus, then, said to them again that "Whenever you should be exalting the Son of Mankind, then you will know that I am, and from Myself I am doing nothing, but, according as My Father teaches Me, these things I am speaking." (John 8:28)

"He who is repudiating Me and not getting My declarations, has that which is judging him; the word which I speak, that will be judging him in the last day, seeing that I speak not from Myself, but the Father Who sends Me, He has given Me the precept, what I may be saying and what I should be speaking. And I am aware that His precept is life eonian. What, then, I am speaking, according as the Father has declared it to Me, thus am I speaking." (John 12:48-50)

"You hear that I said to you, 'I am going, and I am coming to you.' If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." (John 14:28)

"there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (1 Corinthians 8:6)

The "2000 year old story" is timeless because it is the inspired written word of God.

You say, "So, are we required to believe a 2000 yr old story at the expense of Spirit of Christ within each and everyone of us. I say NO!!!!! NEVER!!!!!"

I agree, but I wonder why you think believing the word of God is "at the expense of Spirit of Christ." The "2000 year old story" is all about Christ.

"making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him) to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ -- both that in the heavens and that on the earth" (Ephesians 1:9,10)

If you don't believe Christ walked on water, healed the sick, and turned water into wine, do you believe Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and God roused Christ from the dead and immortalized him so that he will never die again?

That is the biggest miracle of all, and the word of God says the same thing will happen to all mankind eventually.

Do you believe Christ lives and reconciles all on earth and in the heavens to God through his sacrifice on the cross? That's what the word of God says, but you'll have a hard time hearing that in any church.

Don't reject the word of God, sister, because it is "difficult believing or even wanting to believe" as you say. Keep the faith even if you don't understand God's ways. Christ died for our sins and was roused from the dead by the Father so we all would be saved from death. All we have to do is believe.

"you will know the truth, and the truth will be making you free" (John 8:32)

JulieTang84

Dear Tom, I will answer in greater detail later , but please know that I was sparking tongue in cheek.

My point being I know many who can hold the bible. up and say : This is God!

I believe Fathers Spirit is in us not in a book. Instructions, history, etc but not spirit.

Love Julie   :HeartThrob:

JulieTang84

As promised Tom, here is a worthy (I hope) response to your heartfelt reply.    :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Tom on September 24, 2013, 12:16:45 AM
You say, "So, are we required to believe a 2000 yr old story at the expense of Spirit of Christ within each and everyone of us. I say NO!!!!! NEVER!!!!!"

I agree, but I wonder why you think believing the word of God is "at the expense of Spirit of Christ." The "2000 year old story" is all about Christ.

I say this dear Tom because so many and I include dear friends and even family that have NO CONCEPT of unconditional LOVE  :HeartThrob: It simply used to break my heart when all I heard from my loved ones lips was spiteful indignation of how so many of Fathers sons and daughters were going to be thrown in a pit of fire to be burned forever. All while holding Fathers Holy Word in their hands.

They were not speaking of LOVE, they were not reading WORDS of LOVE, yet they were acting as if they were the very author of those words. Of course I know now that they can only see what Father has enabled them to see. If they see not love in Fathers Word, it is because Father wants it this way. In truth, Fathers WORD is the measuring Tool of Spiritual Maturity more than anything else.

Of course, this likely shocks you; however, the further one travels away from Eternal Damnation, the closer one gets to Pure LOVE, Light and Peace.

Quote from: Tom on September 24, 2013, 12:16:45 AM
There is no other book as comprehensive in scope as scripture, but you can believe it or not. If you don't believe it and live by it, you're subject to any well disguised deception that is simply a trap of the Adversary. Of course miracles are hard to understand and believe because there is always a leap of faith required. The world thinks we're fools for believing, but we have peace in the midst of our persecution because spirit may be invisible but it is real and powerful. Without knowing the truth about the spirit of God, you are subject to any spirit, and deception is the effective method of operation used by the powers of darkness. That's why I now know all the other things I tried while I was seeking the truth were just diversionary tactics of the Adversary trying to keep me from becoming aware of the truth. The word of God is truth, and we are blessed to have the inspired written word of God. People died in the past because the church killed them simply for reading the word of God. The church never wanted folks to know what the word of God says because it is the truth that frees you from the religious hypocrisy of the church as well as the fear of death and the worries of this world. Continue to seek the truth in the word of God, and God will reveal it to you. Stay focused on the word of God so you're not deceived.

Tom I am going to go totally against this. All of what you say is true, but it is only HALF true.  Yes "The word of God is truth, and we are blessed to have the inspired written word of God." but how truthful is using Fathers Holy Word to spread fear and dread to millions of innocent people through out the ages. Are those that heard these twisted words, lies, blessed? Blessed by whom? Likewise, the countless priests, pastors, clergy that teach these lies week in and week out, whilst holding their hands out demanding ever more money to further their cause. No Tom, such as these are not Blessed by Father. Yet they will hold his Word high and proclaim to speak for him while condemning millions if not billions, enough to make Hitler look like a saint.

You see Tom, you missed one VERY important point. The Spirit. The Spirit is not FOUND, because it is not hid between pages or lost meanings of words. No, the Spirit of Truth is GIVEN.

Jhn 15:26
"When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.


Only the Spirit of Truth sent from Father has the KNOWLEDGE to speak of Jesus. Jesus is the SON of PURE LOVE  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Any words spoken by ANYONE not bathed in LOVE and LIGHT are not from the Spirit of Truth. Understanding comes from Spirit, not from words, not even Fathers Holy Word. Look around you please Tom and see that this is true.

Job 32:8
But it is the spiritfn in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding.


This is not a terrible thing. Not at all. We are yet as children, and as such we need all the SPIRITUAL help we can get.
   
Jhn 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.


The Truth is LOVE. Father is ONLY Love. If there were another truth other than Love, the Father would not be Perfect LOVE, just almost perfect. Thankfully, he is TOTALLY Perfect and He is Pure LOVE.

Without this Truth, one lacks LOVE. One is devoid of compassion, peace, tolerance, patience and UNCONDITIONAL Love. Most of all one has no concept of the teachings of Christ Jesus.


Jhn 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Jhn 6:65
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them."


Father enables his children to come to Christ through the Spirit of Truth and ONLY then is Fathers Word Truly understood.

How is it understood? By two simple but VERY important commandments. Loving Father with all that we are and Everyone else in the same way we love ourselves.

We cannot Love God until we Love ourselves. Until we can look at ourselves with total gratitude and appreciation for Father for our wonderfully made bodies. Once one is able to do that, this same one can then see and Love everyone else for all are seen to be made in the same manner. All with total gratitude to and for Father. Which is of course Love. Nothing else matters, until this is perfected. There are no shortcuts. Love cannot be forsaken for an understanding of any other kind. Love must come first.

Why? because it is the product of the Spirit of Truth. Every other understanding will fall into place when needed. Father promised to give the words of wisdom when needed, just as he promised to look after our every physical need. Love brings Peace, Joy, Fulfillment, Compassion, Gratitude, etc. Yet it brings something even more, a calmness that is beyond words, devoid of worry and Fear. Love brings LIFE as it was meant to be lived.

Quote from: Tom on September 24, 2013, 12:16:45 AM
"making known to us the secret of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him) to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ -- both that in the heavens and that on the earth" (Ephesians 1:9,10)

If you don't believe Christ walked on water, healed the sick, and turned water into wine, do you believe Christ died for the sins of the whole world, and God roused Christ from the dead and immortalized him so that he will never die again?

That is the biggest miracle of all, and the word of God says the same thing will happen to all mankind eventually.

Do you believe Christ lives and reconciles all on earth and in the heavens to God through his sacrifice on the cross? That's what the word of God says, but you'll have a hard time hearing that in any church.

I believe that the FULL understanding of this is not given until enabled by Father. This is why it is unheard in Church.

Yet I have a question for you. If Father has blessed a native in some far away foreign land with the Spirit of Truth (Love) and this native is transformed and sees all through the eyes of Love and becomes a living example to family and friends of unbridled Love. Is this one any less of a person. Has not the Spirit of Truth revealed all of which Father has deemed necessary. To suggest otherwise is to Fault Father. We must never judge anyone based on what they do or do not understand. Father judges on the state of their heart. Which is why we should be always mindful of our own. 

Quote from: Tom on September 24, 2013, 12:16:45 AM
Don't reject the word of God, sister, because it is "difficult believing or even wanting to believe" as you say. Keep the faith even if you don't understand God's ways. Christ died for our sins and was roused from the dead by the Father so we all would be saved from death. All we have to do is believe.

"you will know the truth, and the truth will be making you free" (John 8:32)

I used to believe that my salvation was based on what I believed. Not any more Tom. Not because it is difficult (I was speaking as a devils advocate) truly.  :HeartThrob:

You see my salvation is not based on anything that I believe, or for that matter, anything that I do. No one is going thrown into Hell because I "missed" them or did not "bring them to Jesus" Not at all. Yet Love is greater than a four letter word. Love is knowing that I am but a single drop in Fathers ocean of Love. Yet because of this, there is an unlimited access to Love. I used to think we could change the world with sheer force. If we worked hard and long, we could make a difference and I guess we could, for a short while at least.

But there is another way. Love Creates. Fear Destroys. We can repair our earth, and all our brothers and sisters through an unlimited supply of Love. The purest of Loves a love that is not based in any understanding or belief, just gratitude and the want and need to Love.

So Tom, do I believe Fathers Holy Bible is His Word? Of course. Do I believe it is vital that it's every word if fully understood? Not at all. I "know" that no truth ever gleaned from the Bible, no matter how well hidden, will EVER trump the two Greatest Commandments.

Love is my treasure and Tom, nothing else matters. Not any more.

Psa 23:1

[[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psa 23:2
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

Psa 23:3
He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Psa 23:4
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Psa 23:5
Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Psa 23:6
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Tom I write all of this with the greatest of Love and  respect for you. I am in no way questioning your walk home. I am not even saying that I am closer than anyone, yet the view from here is breathtaking and I wish I could share it with everyone!!!!

:HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Love Julie :girlheart:

Tom

When the word of God is distorted by intentional mistranslation to perpetrate the deception of a vindictive sadistic god, it is no longer the the word of God. That's why the spirit of truth does not come through it. God loves all his creatures including the "native" as you say who never heard of Christ. That's why God is the savior of all mankind. Some have simply not been chosen for eonian life. God is love. All will eventually know this and be filled with the love of God because God will be all in all.

Tom

God is love, but God created evil so we would fully appreciate good. We are involved in spiritual warfare, and the word of God is the sword of the spirit. It is all that Christ needed when Satan confronted him in the wilderness. It is all we need to counter the powers of darkness because the word of God has the power of the spirit of God.

"For the word of God is living and operative, and keen above any two-edged sword, and penetrating up to the parting of soul and spirit, both of the articulations and marrow, and is a judge of the sentiments and thoughts of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

The "spirit of truth" you are talking about comes to us through the word of God. The word of God is the word of truth.

The word of God is not the problem. The problem is those who misuse the word of God, the sword of the spirit, against their brothers and sisters who they are supposed to love. I agree there are those who are not familiar with the word of God who live in the spirit of God's love more than some theological scholars, but that's not because the word of God is at fault. It is because some folks, even though they may be educated in the word, are still blind to the truth that God is love. I believe that is because the god of church doctrine is portrayed as an angry god seeking revenge rather than the ultimate salvation and love of all his creatures.

That's why I say don't reject the word of God, sis. Just correct those who misuse it by speaking the truth in love. The overwhelming power of God's love will overcome all eventually including the error of the church. Unfortunately there are many folks in the church who don't take the time to seek the truth themselves because it's easier to just rely on the preacher to feed it to them, but, if that preacher doesn't know the truth, how are they to know unless we tell them? Most of them persecute us for doing so, but God blesses us with the fruit of the spirit despite the persecution.