Does/ Can Satan have a physical body?

[Doc]

I'm discussing the ability of an entity like satan to be tormented in a physical lake of fire and brimstone with someone. His comment was that Satan can have a physical body, but I've found no scriptural evidence for it. Any clear evidence for or against?

[martincisneros]

I'm not sure if it's Isaiah 14 or which passage, but there's a passage that some Dispensational Premillenialists will take as Satan and others will take it as a reference to the antiChrist that they view as coming BECAUSE OF the physical body implication in the passage.  But the same illustration used by many Trinitarians about water, ice, and steam could probably be used in this instance on the fact that fire can still impact very powerfully upon the molecules of water, ice, and steam in either causing evaporation or if the fire is hot enough, it just winds up becoming fuel for the fire as the hydrogen in the water ignites.  So, for those that believe that either God is the Lake of Fire, or the Lake of Fire is an attribute of God, or that it's in some other way intimately associated with His Person, then I probably just gave them material for having a Pentecostal shouting fit, even if they don't view themselves as Pentecostals. 

The physical body aspect can be irrelevant to the conversation depending on the type of fire, the nature of the substance being subjected to it (since none of us knows if there's an igniting point to the human spirit or a particular kind of fire in this present universe that would be bad for the real "us" and obviously we have no Scriptures to that effect) and the degrees Fahrenheit might have a baring, although I'm obviously using a crude illustration of something going on beyond the 4 demensions of length, width, height, and our demension of time.  But if I went into Quantum Mechanics, M Theory, and Superstring theory, after a few sentences, I wouldn't even know what I was talking about any more.  So, I hope any perfectionists that come to the boards would bare with the infirmity of communicating in English and trying to be understandable to all levels.

[reFORMer]

More has been said of these things elsewhere; but, years ago, when I didn't realize there was no Scripture that indicated "Lucifer" of Isaiah 14 became Satan or that Satan was Lucifer, something occured to me about Ezekiel 28 which is usually added into the discussion.  I thought then that this was talking about who became the devil.  It says, "...thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." (Ez 28:14, AV) That I thought could be something like a neutron star or a brown dwarf star.  It would be so incredibly heavy: solid fire, that liquid fire, as in "the lake of fire," would be cold by comparison.  You know how life gets suspended and inactive when it is extremely cold.  Perhaps the devil and his angels are going into suspended animation.  I regard that as imagination today, though interesting.

Ephesians 2:1-3 (CLV)...
1 And you, being dead to your offenses and sins,
2 in which once you walked, in accord with the eon of this world, in accord with the chief of the jurisdiction of the air, the spirit now operating in the sons of stubbornness
3 (among whom we also all behaved ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the will of the flesh and of the comprehension, and were, in our nature, children of indignation, even as the rest)...

This spirit related to stubbornness, and adversarial spirit, "the Prince of the power of the air" has been aligned with Satan.  In Revelation 12 the moon 30 fold company is under the authority of the woman.  Her  60 fold authority in turn is a victory wreath of twelve stars (Patriarchs/Apostles) on her head.  In the 100 fold realm the Manchild holds a rod of iron in his hand and God possessing him puts him in God's throne.  Blood has an iron ion at the head of the indole chain in red blood cells; whereas, the plant kingdom has chloroplasts in which the head of the indole chain is a phosphoric ion.  Lucifer is from Latin "Luciferon," which in Hebrew is "Hillel," but in Greek is "Phosphoron."  What produces the oxygen we breath making our blood red is the plants.  Jesus was hung on a tree.

It doesn't anymore appear that all this is right; but, there is something here that I haven't sorted out since realizing that "The Light Bearer" in humankind.  We bear the Christ who is the Light of the world.  The High Priest of Israel is who contextually was mentioned in Isaiah 14.  Maybe someone else can make a better sense of this "Chief of the Jurisdiction of the Air."  Air is what by being possessed by God we're raised into.

I know this is as a proverb in the mouth of a fool.

[Molly]

Satan has the physical body of a dragon, but he can change shapes, into that other reptilian creature, the snake, or even into an angel of light, a beautiful man.   You can look up in the ancient cities around the world (eg:London) and see his likeness and his demons depicted on the cornices and arches of buildings.

Revelation 20:2
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

You can't lay hold on a chimera.

[Doc]

Hmm. Perhaps I didn't make what I was looking for clear enough. Is there a scripture that clearly indicates that Satan has a physical body?
The point I'm trying to get to is to cause this person to re-think his notion that Satan appeared in a solid, physical form to tempt Christ, and question his literal view of Revelation by cornering him on his notion that the lake of fire is a physical lake of physical fire, and if so, how is it possible for that to physically torment a (as far as I can tell) purely spiritual being/ entity?

[Molly]

hmm...well maybe a literalist (me) can't answer your question, then. :gangel:

I have met your random garden snake, and none of them seem particularly subtle.  But, there is one who is.


1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

--Gen 3

[WhiteWings]

Would it matter if we know the answer?
Right now I don't have eternal fireproof body. But according to ETs I will get one.
So if satan right now only is a spirit it doesn't mean he can get a real body before getting cast in hell.
Isn't satan the leader of the demons? There are a few verses about Jesus casting out demons. That where spirits that possed human bodies. So I would guess satan is spirit too.

[Molly]

There are four entries in the Old Testament for the word, 'devil/devils."

The four entries concern people worshipping devils and sacrificing even their own children to them.

They even ordained priests for the devils--there is the musterion anomie.

That leaves the other 102 entries for "devil/devils" to the New Testament--because that is where the devil was defeated.  Jesus spends a lot of time casting out devils during his ministry.

There is no doubt that Satan is a spiritual entity which can take physical form.  And, one might wonder if he has any power at all without first entering into a physical form, for which reason our battle is a spiritual one.


25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

--2 Tim 2

[WhiteWings]

Jesus spends a lot of time casting out devils during his ministry.

There is no doubt that Satan is a spiritual entity which can take physical form.  And, one might wonder if he has any power at all without first entering into a physical form, for which reason our battle is a spiritual one.

Casting out means removing from where it doesn't belong.
So the devils where in stolen bodies not their own bodies.
I think satan can't create a real body himself. Just (ab)use an already existing body.

[Molly]

Jesus spends a lot of time casting out devils during his ministry.

There is no doubt that Satan is a spiritual entity which can take physical form.  And, one might wonder if he has any power at all without first entering into a physical form, for which reason our battle is a spiritual one.

Casting out means removing from where it doesn't belong.
So the devils where in stolen bodies not their own bodies.
I think satan can't create a real body himself. Just (ab)use an already existing body.

Yes, except he does seem (to me) to have a 'natural' body which is the reptilian body of a dragon/serpent--even if this is a 'spiritual body,' that is, showing his true nature in a vision, it is one that can be seen when he appears in it.

[Molly]

lol The dragons of London--

http://www.jimbatty.com/articles/dragonphotos.html

[WhiteWings]

Reptilian.... if snake is the correct translation of the Hebrew word.
nuchush: snake, sorcery, foretelling the future (divination), calculating, sly, cunning, shrewd and guileful

[Molly]

Reptilian.... if snake is the correct translation of the Hebrew word.
nuchush: snake, sorcery, foretelling the future (divination), calculating, sly, cunning, shrewd and guileful

Yes, and make no mistake, there is a real power there.  Unless you think the city of London (that square mile which is the real financial capital of the world) is just obsessed with dragons for some silly, unknown, atavistic reason.


"serpent"
nâchâsh--a snake (from its hiss)


From:

H5172
נחשׁ
nâchash
naw-khash'
A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: -  X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I read a story about Norval Hayes (minister) having a visitation from the Lord in his bedroom, and nearly right behind Him followed Satan and he saw him too, as a being. There's a lot of truth to be had from unlocking that statement. Blessings....

[martincisneros]

Hmm. Perhaps I didn't make what I was looking for clear enough. Is there a scripture that clearly indicates that Satan has a physical body? The point I'm trying to get to is to cause this person to re-think his notion that Satan appeared in a solid, physical form to tempt Christ, and question his literal view of Revelation by cornering him on his notion that the lake of fire is a physical lake of physical fire, and if so, how is it possible for that to physically torment a (as far as I can tell) purely spiritual being/ entity?

This opens up a real can of worms that's beyond the scope of this forum for me to say what I'm about to say 'cause then the obvious comes to mind "why then the dirt suit in Eden and ever since if we simply are the breath of life? and would this in any way make some of gnosticism correct?"  Gnosticism is never correct.  But a spirit can exist on any plane of existence in tangible form for that plane of existence.  You're only continuing in your physical body because your spirit is the life of that body, and your body continually becomes and reboots to whatever your spirit happens to be, and to whatever your spirit happens to be unified with.  That's why you see men like Lester Sumerall (sp?) and Kenneth E. Hagin preaching into their 80s and keeping a more active schedule at those ages, [right before they went on to what the Old Testament calls the heaven of heavens,] than you and I could possibly physically manage this year and next without further growth from the Word of God, time in the gym, and/or the operations of the Holy Spirit supernaturally sustaining us at the direct command of Jesus Christ, our High Priest of what we'd be confessing before men, Who would have to Authorize and Delegate the prolonged assignment in such a supernatural state prior to our full growth in the Word to that point.  A spirit can actually, and particularly a higher ranking spirit, can actually inhabit any world not specificly forbidden to it by God, in any form that would be necessary for it to participate in that world.

[Doc]

Hmm. Perhaps I didn't make what I was looking for clear enough. Is there a scripture that clearly indicates that Satan has a physical body? The point I'm trying to get to is to cause this person to re-think his notion that Satan appeared in a solid, physical form to tempt Christ, and question his literal view of Revelation by cornering him on his notion that the lake of fire is a physical lake of physical fire, and if so, how is it possible for that to physically torment a (as far as I can tell) purely spiritual being/ entity?

This opens up a real can of worms that's beyond the scope of this forum for me to say what I'm about to say 'cause then the obvious comes to mind "why then the dirt suit in Eden and ever since if we simply are the breath of life? and would this in any way make some of gnosticism correct?"  Gnosticism is never correct.  But a spirit can exist on any plane of existence in tangible form for that plane of existence.  You're only continuing in your physical body because your spirit is the life of that body, and your body continually becomes and reboots to whatever your spirit happens to be, and to whatever your spirit happens to be unified with.  That's why you see men like Lester Sumerall (sp?) and Kenneth E. Hagin preaching into their 80s and keeping a more active schedule at those ages, [right before they went on to what the Old Testament calls the heaven of heavens,] than you and I could possibly physically manage this year and next without further growth from the Word of God, time in the gym, and/or the operations of the Holy Spirit supernaturally sustaining us at the direct command of Jesus Christ, our High Priest of what we'd be confessing before men, Who would have to Authorize and Delegate the prolonged assignment in such a supernatural state prior to our full growth in the Word to that point.  A spirit can actually, and particularly a higher ranking spirit, can actually inhabit any world not specificly forbidden to it by God, in any form that would be necessary for it to participate in that world.

:mshock:   Wha? So are you saying that Satan could 'manifest' a physical body suited specifically to physical torment in whatever the LOF is?

Seems I'm pretty good at opening cans labeled,  Caution: Worms Inside!

[reFORMer]

Is a physical body needed to stand on the seashore? Then again the seed of Abraham is likened to dust, sand, stars.

REVELATION

Chapter 12
15 And the serpent casts water as a river out of its mouth after the woman, that she should be carried away by its current.
16 And the earth helps the woman, and the earth opens its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon casts out of its mouth.
17 And the dragon is angry with the woman, and came away to do battle with the rest of her seed, who are keeping the precepts of God and who have the testimony of Jesus.

Chapter 13
1 And it was standing on the sand of the sea. And I perceived a wild beast ascending out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns ten diadems, and on its heads blasphemous names.
2 And the wild beast which I perceived was like a leopardess, and its feet were as a bear's, and its mouth as the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gives it its power and its throne and great authority.
3 And I perceived one of its heads as if it had been slain to death, and its death blow was cured, and the whole earth marvels after the wild beast.
4 And they worship the dragon, seeing that it gives authority to the wild beast. And they worship the wild beast, saying, "Who is like the wild beast?" and "Who is able to battle with it?"
5 And to it was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[Doc]

Is a physical body needed to stand on the seashore? Then again the seed of Abraham is likened to dust, sand, stars.

REVELATION

Chapter 12
15 And the serpent casts water as a river out of its mouth after the woman, that she should be carried away by its current.
16 And the earth helps the woman, and the earth opens its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon casts out of its mouth.
17 And the dragon is angry with the woman, and came away to do battle with the rest of her seed, who are keeping the precepts of God and who have the testimony of Jesus.

Chapter 13
1 And it was standing on the sand of the sea. And I perceived a wild beast ascending out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns ten diadems, and on its heads blasphemous names.
2 And the wild beast which I perceived was like a leopardess, and its feet were as a bear's, and its mouth as the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gives it its power and its throne and great authority.
3 And I perceived one of its heads as if it had been slain to death, and its death blow was cured, and the whole earth marvels after the wild beast.
4 And they worship the dragon, seeing that it gives authority to the wild beast. And they worship the wild beast, saying, "Who is like the wild beast?" and "Who is able to battle with it?"
5 And to it was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes, that's the problem with Revelation. Certain things sound literal, but it's so symbolic, that it's difficult to know sometimes what's literal and what's figurative.

[peacemaker]

"Man apparently is not always aware of the nature of his own spirit."

pneuma tês planês, "the spirit of error."
pneuma astheneias, "spirit of infirmity" or "spirit of weakness."
pneuma alalon, "without speech."
pneuma pythona, "Pythonian spirit" or "divinatory spirit."
pneuma poneron, "evil spirit."

A body without the Spirit is dead.

And Stephen, calling – "Receive My Spirit."

Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters ... My Spirit shall not always strive with man ... I will take of the spirit which is upon thee ... in whom is the Spirit ... evil spirit troubled him ... seek me a woman that has a familiar spirit ... let a double portion of your Spirit be upon me ... the pattern of all that he had by the Spirit ... You gave also the good spirit to instruct ... a spirit passed before my face ... in whose spirit there is no guile ... Lord  ... saves such as be of a contrite spirit ... renew a right spirit within me ... sacrifices of God are a broken spirit ... generation ... whose spirit was not stead fast with God ... Who makes his messengers spirits ... Whither shall I go from your Spirit ... My God: your Spirit is good ... no man has power over the Spirit to retain the Spirit ... you know not what is the way of the Spirit ... spirit shall return unto God who gave it ... Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him ... Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord, or taught ... I have put My Spirit upon him ... I will pour my Spirit upon your seed ... whither the Spirit was to go, they went ... spirit of the living creature ... his spirit entered into me when he spoke unto me ... Spirit took me up, and I heard ... Spirit lifted me up between the earth ... I will put a New Spirit within you ... in whom is the Spirit of the Holy God ... Daniel was preferred because an excellent spirit was in him ... spirit of whoredoms has caused them to err.

I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh ... My Spirit remains among you ... not by might, but by My Spirit ... those spirits of heaven ... Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness ... Blessed are the poor in spirit ... he cast out the spirit with his Word ... he gave them power over unclean spirits ... it is not you that speaks but the spirit of your father ... When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man ... taken with himself seven other spirits ... saying it is a spirit ... Spirit like a dove descending upon him ... come out of the man, thou unclean spirit ... my spirit has rejoiced in God ... commands unclean spirits, and they come out ... You know not what manner of spirit you are of ... supposed that they had seen a spirit ... spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see me ... born of water and of the Spirit ... spirit of just men made perfect.

"Into thy hands I commend MY SPIRIT."

Peacemaker

[Nathan]

In short . . .yes, satan has a body . . .it's me . . it's you . . .it's every person born into the first Adam . . . .and yes, Revelation is supposed to all spiritual . . .when we start drawing lines as to what is and what isn't, we begin mixing things that were never intended to be mixed.  It was literal to those to whom it was literally written to . . .it's spiritual to us . . .flesh profiteth nothing  . .right?

Satan = adversity/adversary
Devil = traducer . ..

Those are the original definitions . . .men created the images of the rest . . .just my opinion of course.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I don't know firsthand about Satan having a body, but I do know firsthand about demons having a body that is capable of taking hold of some part of yours, and you can feel the "mass" of it's grip, so they are not just "spiritual illusions".

They are also capable of influencing from within, and from without our bodies. Blessings....

[Molly]

5We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

--2 Cor 10



Who takes every thought captive?  We do!  That means we are not our thoughts.  That means our thoughts are coming from someplace else that is not of us.

But we are like the military protector of a garrison, who questions every thought that wishes to enter in, because some are the enemy.

The thought is coming from where?  A spirit?  Our own carnal mind?  or both?



Luke 8:30
And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.



[take every] "thought" [captive]

G3540
νόημα
noēma
no'-ay-mah
From G3539; a perception, that is, purpose, or (by implication) the intellect, disposition, itself: - device, mind, thought.

[Doc]

In short . . .yes, satan has a body . . .it's me . . it's you . . .it's every person born into the first Adam . . . .and yes, Revelation is supposed to all spiritual . . .when we start drawing lines as to what is and what isn't, we begin mixing things that were never intended to be mixed.  It was literal to those to whom it was literally written to . . .it's spiritual to us . . .flesh profiteth nothing  . .right?

Satan = adversity/adversary
Devil = traducer . ..

Those are the original definitions . . .men created the images of the rest . . .just my opinion of course.

I understand where you're coming from on this, and I'm inclined to agree with you. (I've been studying the revelation series; I think I'm on tape 5)

I'm discussing this topic with someone who is a literalist (at least when possible), so what I'm attempting to do is use their own literalism against them, and show them how absurd it can get. Which he kindly did for me by making a comment about Satan having a physical body, citing the example of Christ's temptation in the wilderness. I pointed out to him that nowhere in that text does it suggest that satan was present in a physically solid form. I also pointed out that the scriptures indicate that Christ was tempted precisely as we are, but without sin. If you look at the original language there, it's clear that it doesn't support the notion that He was tempted any differently, even in method. I asked him the question, so when you're tempted, does Satan literally show up in solid visible form to do it?  He couldn't answer these points. So, he merely reiterated what we both already knew. God clearly says that satan will be tormented in the LOF, but he couldn't make the case that it was a physical torment.

[Nathan]

I have to chuckle bro . . . there is much wrestling that takes place when you share those tapes . .and principles with people who are still embracing the literal meanings of Scripture.  I have seasons of it . . .sometimes . . as you probably see on this forum, sometimes I'll throw stuff out and it can go back and forth at times, but other times, I'd rather just go find someone who's interested in the content more than the sparring. 

It's a tough thing to do, to introduce a paradigm shift to someone who's struggling with a simple facet of it.  Unless God unlocks them, there's no convincing them.  You're a heretic and that's that.  I've come to accept the label and even so, I wish there were a pill you could hand them and just say "Here, take this . .it'll fix your vision . . ." and WHAM!!!  The patterns of Scripture come to life in them . . . just wish it were that easy.

But it's all about the seasons within.  It's happening.  The fact that you have those things you've been reading is evidence that it's happening.  This is the 7th day.  God is fulfilling his original purpose by bringing us back to origins of our own . . .the place where purity reigns within and grace, mercy and love flow without.  There's just a lot of scrubbing going on in the mean time . . .making the flesh a bit raw at times, but there's a lot of grime in our nature, our roots tend to run deep in our carnality . . .but he's love goes deeper.

Let me know when you want the rest . . . they really do transform a mind when the atmosphere in us is right.

[Doc]

Go ahead and send the rest. I'm going through them pretty quickly now. I think I have the notes through tape 10.  :thumbsup: