Divine Irony

sheila · July 15, 2011, 06:24:11 PM

I am hoping to examine this principle of Divine irony. Such as, AS YE JUDGE SO SHALL YE BE JUDGED........

ironic statements,such as the jews saying...'His blood be upon us and our children' and the harlots and tax-collectors enter the Kingdom of heaven

before you, [when He first come to bring back the lost of Israel]

What do you think?

lomarah · July 19, 2011, 04:13:14 AM

Sounds interesting, let us know what you find!

Molly · July 19, 2011, 04:34:30 AM

For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."
--Mat 12:37

Molly · July 19, 2011, 04:42:47 AM

26 The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron. He said, 27 "How long will this evil community speak against me? I have heard these Israelites talk about how unhappy they are. 28 So tell them, 'Here is what I, the Lord, am announcing. You can be sure that I live. And you can be just as sure that I will do to you the very things that I heard you say.

29 " 'You will die in this desert. Every one of you who is 20 years old or more will die. Every one of you who was counted in the list of the people will die. Every one of you who has spoken out against me will be wiped out. 30 I lifted up my hand and promised with an oath to make this land your home. But now not all of you will enter the land. Caleb, the son of Jephunneh, will enter it. So will Joshua, the son of Nun. They are the only ones who will enter the land.

--Num 14

Beloved Servant · July 19, 2011, 05:49:33 AM

Exodus 14 (Amplified Bible)
19 And the Angel of God Who went before the host of Israel moved and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before them and stood behind them,
20 Coming between the host of Egypt and the host of Israel. It was a cloud and darkness to the Egyptians, but it gave light by night to the Israelites; and the one host did not come near the other all night.

Beloved Servant · July 19, 2011, 06:19:07 AM

1 Corinthians 15:36

How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

Beloved Servant · July 19, 2011, 06:32:07 AM

So the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered the council, and said, "What are we to do? For this man performs many signs. If we let him go on thus, every one will believe in him, and the Romans will come and destroy both our holy place and our nation."

But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all; you do not understand that it is expedient for you that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation should not perish." He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation, and not for the nation only, but to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. (John 11:47-52)

John shows that even the enemies of Jesus bear witness to the truth of who he is and what he does. In the same way, the soldiers who plait a crown of thorns wind up, ironically, telling us the truth about Jesus, as does Pilate's titulus "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews".

Again and again, the very enemies of Jesus speak the ironic truth about Him, though they do so in mockery.

eaglesway · July 19, 2011, 06:57:34 AM

If you had been blind you would have recieved forgiveness, but because you say you see your sin remains

Beloved Servant · July 19, 2011, 07:17:13 AM

that's a good one!

Beloved Servant · July 19, 2011, 07:18:59 AM

Matthew 27:25:

And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!"

They feared it as a curse but it is the greatest gift of God!

micah7:9 · July 19, 2011, 07:31:27 PM

Quote from: eaglesway on July 19, 2011, 06:57:34 AM
If you had been blind you would have recieved forgiveness, but because you say you see your sin remains

:bigGrin: :HeartThrob:

jabcat · July 24, 2011, 08:31:10 PM

you are fearfully and wonderfully made

life is but a vapor
----------------------------------

rejoice in the lord always

for me to die is gain
----------------------------------

sheila, any new thoughts on divine irony? what were you tossing around in your mind when you started the thread? thanks, james.

sheila · July 24, 2011, 09:03:07 PM

Hi Jab,

the brothers and sisters have already written several of them. I was thinking along the principle..by your words you shall be judged Mt 12;37

does He rule the nations with a rod of irony? :laughing7: what if He's kept us spotless and blameless from the world? what is impossible

with man..is possible with God

jabcat · July 24, 2011, 10:48:50 PM

"rod of irony" :thumbsup:

I think there are many. My thought is, what's the deeper meaning, reason, and more importantly, what's to be our understanding and response. It seems to me there is much seeking of balance involved.

Also reminds me of the parables, how so much was hidden by and in them.

lomarah · July 25, 2011, 01:07:55 AM

Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 19, 2011, 07:18:59 AM

Matthew 27:25:

And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!"

They feared it as a curse but it is the greatest gift of God!

WOW that just blew me away!!!

jabcat · July 26, 2011, 01:50:16 AM

Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2011, 10:48:50 PM
My thought is, what's the deeper meaning, reason, and more importantly, what's to be our understanding and response. It seems to me there is much seeking of balance involved.

Also reminds me of the parables, how so much was hidden by and in them.

To me, another irony;

the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof Ps. 24:1

the whole creation groans and travails, hoping for deliverance Romans 8:9-12

I'd noted earlier that I thought the ironies had to do with us seeking a balance, which IMO, has much to do with our development. Salvation is by grace, the works are His. Still, those continuing works and growth doesn't "just happen". As part of our maturing, often as result of our hardships and failures, we finally begin to learn that our efforts are futile, and we learn to look to Him (Heb. 12:2) to complete our faith; we also learn to be in agreement with Him about our shortcomings, and again, looking to Him, ask and trust Him for our needs - including awareness that it's His righteousness that covers us.

Ironically, if I judge, then I'm being judged. One esteems a day over another day (it's OK), while another doesn't - and that's OK too. We are told to receive each other, but not to argue or find fault. To support each other. (Romans 14:5) Although we are to stand against deceit ("expose those who contradict" Titus 1:9, and "don't even have a meal with such a one" I Cor. 5:11). Yet when Paul delivered the one over to satan, it was not for His demise, but for his destruction [of all in him that was not of God] so that he would be saved - so it was ultimately for his salvation.

So maybe the irony (and the unknown) is, at least in part, to keep us seeking (and learning to trust!). We are told in Ephesians 6:13 "having done all, to stand firm", while I Cor. 10:12 says "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall."

If we were always totally comfortable and had it all figured out - if everything, on the surface, always "made sense", perhaps we'd likely fail to "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in
all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths." Prov. 3:5-6

jabcat · August 09, 2011, 05:07:09 AM

My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

------------

Take up your cross and follow Me.

I die daily.

eaglesway · August 09, 2011, 10:31:23 AM

Quote from: jabcat on July 26, 2011, 01:50:16 AM
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2011, 10:48:50 PM
My thought is, what's the deeper meaning, reason, and more importantly, what's to be our understanding and response. It seems to me there is much seeking of balance involved.

Also reminds me of the parables, how so much was hidden by and in them.

To me, another irony;

the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof Ps. 24:1

the whole creation groans and travails, hoping for deliverance Romans 8:9-12

I'd noted earlier that I thought the ironies had to do with us seeking a balance, which IMO, has much to do with our development. Salvation is by grace, the works are His. Still, those continuing works and growth doesn't "just happen". As part of our maturing, often as result of our hardships and failures, we finally begin to learn that our efforts are futile, and we learn to look to Him (Heb. 12:2) to complete our faith; we also learn to be in agreement with Him about our shortcomings, and again, looking to Him, ask and trust Him for our needs - including awareness that it's His righteousness that covers us.

Ironically, if I judge, then I'm being judged. One esteems a day over another day (it's OK), while another doesn't - and that's OK too. We are told to receive each other, but not to argue or find fault. To support each other. (Romans 14:5) Although we are to stand against deceit ("expose those who contradict" Titus 1:9, and "don't even have a meal with such a one" I Cor. 5:11). Yet when Paul delivered the one over to satan, it was not for His demise, but for his destruction [of all in him that was not of God] so that he would be saved - so it was ultimately for his salvation.

So maybe the irony (and the unknown) is, at least in part, to keep us seeking (and learning to trust!). We are told in Ephesians 6:13 "having done all, to stand firm", while I Cor. 10:12 says "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall."

If we were always totally comfortable and had it all figured out - if everything, on the surface, always "made sense", perhaps we'd likely fail to "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in
all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths." Prov. 3:5-6

:bgdance:

lomarah · June 11, 2012, 03:07:34 PM

Quote from: lomarah on July 25, 2011, 01:07:55 AM
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 19, 2011, 07:18:59 AM

Matthew 27:25:

And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!"

They feared it as a curse but it is the greatest gift of God!

WOW that just blew me away!!!

This is so funny because I just read this again and was blown away again and then saw that I had already written that I was blown away...

Divine irony! :laughing7:

Cardinal · June 11, 2012, 09:29:47 PM

It's not written in the Word this way verbatim, but rather a principle.....the way "up" with God is the way "down", and the way "down" is the way "up"....

Also, darkness and light they are alike to thee....

Deena · June 17, 2012, 12:30:45 AM

I am currently reading Richard Rohr's book Falling Upwards and he points out failure and loss are part of God's plan to bring us to greater glory. He particularly focuses on the meaning of the second half of our earthly life. Few are willing to embrace the process of being reduced, but those who do become the transitory vessels that exhibit God's love and compassion from an honest heart, with no hidden agenda. This reducing is painful (i believe God has me in this process now, and i can hardly bear it) but it is the only way up. Talk about ironic!

lomarah · June 17, 2012, 01:34:52 AM

Quote from: Deena on June 17, 2012, 12:30:45 AM
I am currently reading Richard Rohr's book Falling Upwards and he points out failure and loss are part of God's plan to bring us to greater glory. He particularly focuses on the meaning of the second half of our earthly life. Few are willing to embrace the process of being reduced, but those who do become the transitory vessels that exhibit God's love and compassion from an honest heart, with no hidden agenda. This reducing is painful (i believe God has me in this process now, and i can hardly bear it) but it is the only way up. Talk about ironic!

WOW! Very true! I'm still in my first half lol but I'm feeling the pain. But I am welcoming it because I know that it is bringing life. :HeartThrob: (Life from death. Yep, that's an irony for sure.)

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