Harpazo

[mplsfitter539]

Assuming that we all know that the word harpazo means to be "caught up" I would like to discuss other verses that use the word harpazo or "caught up".  We are also aware that most "Christians" believe that being caught up also means "raptured". So my curiosity lies in this word being used in Acts not 1 Thes.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now lets look at the verse in Acts which contains the exact same word harpazo (raptured).

Acts 8:39
And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Since the same word harpazo is used in the original text to describe this miracle of being caught away in spirit which happens multiple times in the bible it must always mean the same thing. Philip was caught up and next thing you know he was found in another place called Azotus.

Acts 8:40
40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

This to me is absolute proof that harpazo does not mean that being caught up means anything but taken to another place.
Yashua was resurrected from the dead not caught up to heaven. We will be caught up at our resurrection when Christ returns not instantly at death. I think most "Christians" believe that at death the soul goes straight to heaven or torture for all eternity therefore skipping right over the resurrection. This is what the church my parents go to preaches anyway.

So what say you?


   
 

[marie glen]

   hi! I think you are perfectly right! (Except I'm not clear if you mean Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father rather than "harpazo"/caught away to? which I would agree with.)

When I read the verses, it sounds like, to me, that Jesus returns "with fire and angels" (2 Thess 1:7).. Although imo, it's fire man unleashes.. And considering the vision of revelation, it seems to me like the 7 bowls 'come down' as the saints 'go up' and "meet the Lord in the air" - then Zechariah 14:4 seems to say His feet touch down upon Mt of Olives (where He ascended from and the angels said "just as you saw Him go up, so shall 'you' see Him return.."

And then too of course is Mt 24:29-31 "immediately after the tribulation of those days.. will see the Son of man coming on the clouds... and He will send out His angels with a trumpet blast to gather His elect from all corners of the earth.."
(the 7 bowls, as we know, are in the 7th trumpet and they are poured out "quickly")  :hiya:

[Molly]

The verse you quote from Acts describes Phillip being 'snatched up' from one place and taken to another.  It is truly a supernatural event.  I have only seen one instance of this in my lifetime, where a person was supernaturally transported from one place to another.

It is the exact same meaning in the 'rapture' verse.  We will be 'snatched up'  and brought to Christ in the air supernaturally at his return.  And, we will be changed at that time [1 Cor 15] of the seventh trumpet.  The 7th Trumpet will be the voice of God, calling us each by name, as he called to Lazarus by name, "Come forth!"

When I first saw the passage about Phillip, I realized this is how a handful of men working in a time before modern transportation and modern communications could spread the gospel all over the middle east and Europe in a short period of time.  I believe we will see this again just before Christ's return, as the last chosen ones are gathered in.

This will happen at the end of this Age.

Regarding what happens to us at death, I believe, like Paul, that we will be with the Lord.


Philippians 1:23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;


Because of this we trust and we long to depart from the body and to be with Our Lord.

2 Cor 5:8

[sheila]

we must remember that Phillip and such ones are part of His body[alsothe holy spirit in them] and as such He has authority

to send forth 'power' from His body..to minister as He desires. According to His will......  The roman centurion realized

this authority in Christ..and Jesus was amazed that through faith he recognized this.

   Harpazo..is a being in the spirit and no natural laws contain it..as the natural body...and God's power was with Him and He did

many miracles.  Angels and men of which His Holy spirit dwells serve in this manner.

   and I was caught up to heaven..whether in the body or out,I do not know...and I found that those who had fallen in death..

  I did not precede,forthey were with Him.

   Do you not know that the husbandman has authority over his wife's body?

[mplsfitter539]

and I was caught up to heaven..whether in the body or out,I do not know...and I found that those who had fallen in death.. I did not precede,for they were with Him.

I think Paul was receiving a view of future events not past or present.  To me this passage is like what is found in the book of Revelation of Jesus Christ. This I believe is speaking of end times.

Regarding what happens to us at death, I believe, like Paul, that we will be with the Lord.

Philippians 1:23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;

Because of this we trust and we long to depart from the body and to be with Our Lord.

I don't think Paul here is talking about instantaneous transportation. Paul knows that we all die and go into the grave where we await the resurrection. It will seem instantaneous to those who are dead who know nothing to be woken from a deep sleep.

John 3
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 

[sheila]

actually,I was talking about my own expierence,when I was caught up,'harpazo' to heaven...

   if Christ is in you..then He who came down from heaven can ascend to heaven....I saw the angels of heaven ascending and

   descending on the son of man...when you see Christ as He is..you will be like Him...son of man.......

   this is the appearance.....the coming on the clouds..with power and great glory......

[Molly]

Sheila  :thumbsup:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know--God knows.

--2 Cor 12:2


"caught up"

G726
ἁρπάζω
harpazō
har-pad'-zo
From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).




Ezekiel 8:3 He stretched out what looked like a hand and took me by the hair of my head. The Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and in visions of God he took me to Jerusalem, to the entrance of the north gate of the inner court, where the idol that provokes to jealousy stood.




2 Corinthians 12:4 [He] was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

[sheila]

this 'harpazo' is also related to the receiving of the promise of the Father..the receiving of the 'power'  of the spirit..which is

no law against it.  It is through this same 'power' of the spirit,that was poured forth on those at pentecost...to be wittnesses[clouds

of heaven..coming on the clouds of heaven in great power and glory]

  being caught up in the spirit,or being in the spirit..is this same 'harpazo".........as one with Him..one spirit/one body....

   this new living spiritual creature has many members in one body  Contrary to the natural sin body of death..this

spirit body does the will of it's husband,,it is a capable wife.one spirit one body..to bring forth righteous offspring[quickened

spirits]  Every vision,prophecy,revelation,every work of the Holy spirit is done by this power.  It was by this power that

  Jesus Christ was granted life in Himself..it is this same power of the incorruptible spirit that death has no hold on...there

is nothing formed against it that will suceed.   That power was poured out as blood/life...the power of an indestructible

life spirit. You must drink my blood and eat my flesh..is the power of the spirit of Christ in you making you onein spirit

the eating of my flesh is the becoming one in flesh with Him...that is why at His appearance,you will see Him as He is

and you will be just like Him...a son of man a son of God.

   I once knew a man that was 'caught up" harpazo unto the third heaven..whether in the body or out,I do not know

  the time of the manifestation of the sons of God draws near..and I tell you it will be in the celestial spirit body that is

one in spirit and flesh with Christ...sons of men/just spirits of men made perfect,sons of God[the children of the resurrection

will be like the angels,the children of God.

[sheila]

this saame power/spirit was in Elijah..and He ascended alive..also in Enoch..and the Lord took him...it is the spirit body

Of God and Jesus..of which all men shall become one with.

[Molly]

If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

--Rom 8:11




Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.



26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the middle, and said, Peace be to you. 27Then said he to Thomas, Reach here your finger, and behold my hands; and reach here your hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28And Thomas answered and said to him, My LORD and my God.

--Jn 27



Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."



For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.  Eph 5:30

[Lazarus Short]

I think most "Christians" believe that at death the soul goes straight to heaven or torture for all eternity therefore skipping right over the resurrection. This is what the church my parents go to preaches anyway.

So what say you?


   

I think most "Christians" do not know the difference between "soul" and "spirit."  Your soul is the living, breathing, feeling, thinking you.  You really don't have a soul - you ARE a soul.  It, the soul, ceases to exist when the You dies.  The Spirit returns to God who gave it.  After death, all you have left, besides the non-existent soul and the departed Spirit, is the dead body.  Dead bodies do not go to Heaven or Hell - they go into the grave - "Helled" to be sure (a verb), but not to the "Christian" version of Hades, but only Helled/Hidden in the ground/grave.

[Molly]

For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him. 10 For we must all stand before Christ to be judged. We will each receive whatever we deserve for the good or evil we have done in this earthly body.

--2 Cor 5




"Don't let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, and trust also in me. 2 There is more than enough room in my Father's home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? 3 When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am. 4 And you know the way to where I am going."

--John 14

[mplsfitter539]

   

I think most "Christians" do not know the difference between "soul" and "spirit."  Your soul is the living, breathing, feeling, thinking you.  You really don't have a soul - you ARE a soul.  It, the soul, ceases to exist when the You dies.  The Spirit returns to God who gave it.  After death, all you have left, besides the non-existent soul and the departed Spirit, is the dead body.  Dead bodies do not go to Heaven or Hell - they go into the grave - "Helled" to be sure (a verb), but not to the "Christian" version of Hades, but only Helled/Hidden in the ground/grave.

:iagree:

[Molly]

11 Because we understand our fearful responsibility to the Lord, we work hard to persuade others. God knows we are sincere, and I hope you know this, too. 12 Are we commending ourselves to you again? No, we are giving you a reason to be proud of us, so you can answer those who brag about having a spectacular ministry rather than having a sincere heart. 13 If it seems we are crazy, it is to bring glory to God. And if we are in our right minds, it is for your benefit. 14 Either way, Christ's love controls us. Since we believe that Christ died for all, we also believe that we have all died to our old life. 15 He died for everyone so that those who receive his new life will no longer live for themselves. Instead, they will live for Christ, who died and was raised for them.

16 So we have stopped evaluating others from a human point of view. At one time we thought of Christ merely from a human point of view. How differently we know him now! 17 This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!

18 And all of this is a gift from God, who brought us back to himself through Christ. And God has given us this task of reconciling people to him. 19 For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, no longer counting people's sins against them. And he gave us this wonderful message of reconciliation. 20 So we are Christ's ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, "Come back to God!" 21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

--2 Cor 5


20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

--2 Cor 5



For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

--Rom 8:2





Romans 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

[Molly]

A Superior Priesthood

11 If, then, perfection came through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there for another priest to arise in the order of Melchizedek, and not to be described as being in the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must be a change of law as well. 13 For the One about whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, from which no one has served at the altar. 14 Now it is evident that our Lord came from Judah, and about that tribe Moses said nothing concerning priests. 15 And this becomes clearer if another priest like Melchizedek arises, 16 who doesn't become a priest based on a legal command concerning physical descent but based on the power of an indestructible life.


17 For it has been testified: You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek. 18 So the previous commandment is annulled because it was weak and unprofitable 19 (for the law perfected nothing), but a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. 20 None of this [happened] without an oath. For others became priests without an oath, 21 but He with an oath made by the One who said to Him: The Lord has sworn, and He will not change His mind, You are a priest forever. 22 So Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant. 23 Now many have become [Levitical] priests, since they are prevented by death from remaining in office. 24 But because He remains forever, He holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is always able to save those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them. 26 For this is the kind of high priest we need: holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. 27 He doesn't need to offer sacrifices every day, as high priests do-first for their own sins, then for those of the people. He did this once for all when He offered Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak, but the promise of the oath, which came after the law, [appoints] a Son, who has been perfected forever.




But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

--1 Cor 15:57




However, you are chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, people who belong to God. You were chosen to tell about the excellent qualities of God, who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

--1 Peter 2:9

[micah7:9]

I think most "Christians" believe that at death the soul goes straight to heaven or torture for all eternity therefore skipping right over the resurrection. This is what the church my parents go to preaches anyway.

So what say you?


   

I think most "Christians" do not know the difference between "soul" and "spirit."  Your soul is the living, breathing, feeling, thinking you.  You really don't have a soul - you ARE a soul.  It, the soul, ceases to exist when the You dies.  The Spirit returns to God who gave it.  After death, all you have left, besides the non-existent soul and the departed Spirit, is the dead body.  Dead bodies do not go to Heaven or Hell - they go into the grave - "Helled" to be sure (a verb), but not to the "Christian" version of Hades, but only Helled/Hidden in the ground/grave.

Excellent! And biblical.... leaves out man's imagination. :dsunny: :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[mplsfitter539]

A Superior Priesthood

However, you are chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, people who belong to God. You were chosen to tell about the excellent qualities of God, who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

--1 Peter 2:9

This term reminds me of the days when I was reading all of the material published by RCG. I found them right before finding UR. The number one man at RCG likes to remind everyone that one day we will all become king priests. What a glorious idea and promise.

[micah7:9]

What is RCG? I don't get out and around much, thanks.

[Molly]

A Superior Priesthood

However, you are chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, people who belong to God. You were chosen to tell about the excellent qualities of God, who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

--1 Peter 2:9

This term reminds me of the days when I was reading all of the material published by RCG. I found them right before finding UR. The number one man at RCG likes to remind everyone that one day we will all become king priests. What a glorious idea and promise.

I don't know who rcg is but it doesn't say "one day we will all become"  --  it says YOU ARE.

You are right now.  And, the royal priesthood is based on an indestructible life.



John 6:47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.



"I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life. John 5:24



Everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe that?"  John 11:26



This is 'the better covenant."


22 So Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant.

--Heb 7

[Molly]

The better covenant is why Paul says, "we are always confident" ...." and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord."  [2 Cor 5]   We no longer fear death and can now live our lives unto God with complete security in Him.

 



10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

--Heb 2

[mplsfitter539]

Molly I don't remember which way he said it and I am not reading their material anymore but it was very educational for me since I didn't know the history of the ekklesia. I had never studied how the the real roots of the ekklesia.

micah7:9 RCG is the acronym of the Restored Church of God which is a splinter of WWCOG. This exposure happened to me shortly before I stumbled onto UR. It set me up perfectly for what I was about to receive from God. 

[micah7:9]

Thank you mplsfitter539  :Peace2: