The "Emergent Church" What's Your Take?

[firstborn888]

This movement is sweeping the world. Here's a radio interview (or interrogation) with Doug Pagitt conducted by fundamentalist Todd Friel:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=t0isqLRhClo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AfY-i2iXxQ0&feature=related

Comments?

- byron

[hopeful]

I really wanted to listen and comment on this but I didn't get very far.  I absolutely hate "interrogations"!    It seems that the one being interviewed never gets to say what he feels led to say.  G r-r-r-r

Do you have any other reading links about this movement that are not interviews?

[rockclimber]

I've met some of the "Emergent Church" people and have listened to their teaching and they have some good books (Eric Sandras, Brian Mclaren, Leonard Sweet, Rob Bell). they seem to me to be good grounded sound people that think outside of the box and are not affraid of change or to admit that they where wrong and move on.

[Kept]

To me it seems like a mild form of universalism without just coming out and stating they are universalist because my husband read me a quote of McLarens where he said declaring yourself a universalist is a sure way to end your ministry

kept

[SeekerSA]

Well I listened to the farce, was tempted to comment but so set in their pious self justification it would make no difference.

The host is a dork IMO and Doug was good under the circumstances.  Thing is this is happening world-wide and in isolated circumstances outside of external influence.  The move of God cannot be stopped, legalism will die.

Aspiring to heaven "somewhere over the rainbow", these folk do not realise they are in the wizard of Oz land.  The ministry of Jesus was about Kingdom and not some pie in the sky.

BIC

[Kimberlaina]

It's funny, I drive by Mars Hill Church in Michigan every day on my way to work.  Even so, I know almost nothing about the emergent church.  Local folks have dabbled in it and either come away saying it is amazing or it is awful; no one seems to have a neutral view of it.  The only way I can recognize Mars Hill members is by their bumper stickers, which are way cool, and I want one.  They just say "Love Wins."

[Molly]

Aspiring to heaven "somewhere over the rainbow", these folk do not realise they are in the wizard of Oz land.  The ministry of Jesus was about Kingdom and not some pie in the sky.

It's interesting, do you believe the kingdom of our Lord is to be here on earth?

This is something that didn't occur to me until I spent quite a bit of time talking to Jehovah's Witnesses.  That came about because I was the only one in sodomandgomorrahland that didn't slam the door in their faces, so they always came to my house to witness. lol

I did learn this from them because we did some Bible studies together.  Wonderful people, but they do not believe in the deity of Jesus, so we parted ways, and even after I showed them John 1...


Anyway, this has to be satan's last laugh, the belief by most Christians that they are waiting for something that won't occur in their lifetimes, but not until after their death--some kind of cloudy, pearly gate, streets of gold thing called 'heaven,' don't you think?  Or, do you?

[firstborn888]

Aspiring to heaven "somewhere over the rainbow", these folk do not realise they are in the wizard of Oz land.  The ministry of Jesus was about Kingdom and not some pie in the sky.

It's interesting, do you believe the kingdom of our Lord is to be here on earth?

Yes, "blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth". One 'heaven and earth' passed away at the flood, the present 'heaven and earth' will pass away with a fervent heat, leading to the new 'heaven and earth' which is to come (if I read this right)
II Peter 3:
4 - They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
5 - But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water.
6 - By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
7 - By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 - But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
9 - The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10 - But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.F8
11 - Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives
12 - as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.F9 That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
13 - But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

So, same clouds, same dirt, but different rule and ruled over.
- byron

[SeekerSA]

Aspiring to heaven "somewhere over the rainbow", these folk do not realise they are in the wizard of Oz land.  The ministry of Jesus was about Kingdom and not some pie in the sky.

It's interesting, do you believe the kingdom of our Lord is to be here on earth?

Yes.  Heaven is a follow on and we then are in a spiritual realm only whereas here we are in two realms, flesh and Spirit.

Anyway, this has to be satan's last laugh, the belief by most Christians that they are waiting for something that won't occur in their lifetimes, but not until after their death--some kind of cloudy, pearly gate, streets of gold thing called 'heaven,' don't you think?  Or, do you?

The church has been effective only in vain imaginations and have us in a mindset of trying to achieve something which we already exist in.  Most do not see it yet.

Simple.  We were given dominion, gave it away, Jesus took it back, re-established our authority yet we give it away daily to the enemy.

Kratos mentioned in his thread that Jesus is the model Son and once we learn to operate in kingdom principles, we too shall become sons.  When all operate as sons and joint heirs, miracles will follow, power is manifest and from there, the world is our oyster.

While man degrades the Kingdom of heaven to authoritarian like that of earthly kingdoms, there is no place found for the "sons of God" to manifest.  In THE kingdom, there is only one King, the rest are subjects.  Jesus is the King of kings, He is also the Prince of Peace and many other names.  The Father IMO is THE KING but has delegated all authority in Jesus who in turn has delegated that to us, hence we too are "little kings."  In the Spiritual realm, this holds true, but what happens, it is reduced to carnality/flesh hence the shepherds who are to be guides/servants become the leaders of packs.  Why does this happen?

We only need to look back at Moses when God was ready to speak to the people direct and the folk chose Moses as intermediary instead of accepting God direct.

Same old trick, that the enemy had then is what exists today.  Elevate the man instead of God, we know then what happens to those who are humble and those who are "self exalted"

Although we are told Moses did not enter into the promised land for striking the Rock, IMO his elevation as leader is why he did not enter.  That God still used him in spite of what went wrong, we know that too is the case today.

Still seeing dimly for now, but it is possible, just like today, Moses became a law unto himself.  By the time Jesus came, it was what Moses said and not what God said.  Even today we see, it is what Calvin said, Origen said, __________(insert any scholar here) said and not what God says.  While we cling to what others say and not what God says, we inhibit the manifestation of our sonship and hence retard the establishment of Kingdom come as it is in heaven.

We are told that "this generation" will usher in the return of Christ and that statement is already quite old.  Still looking outward instead of inward where the kingdom is already established, where the throne exists, where we can choose who sits on that throne.

I'll close off with this.

Joh 10:10  The thief does not come except to steal and to kill and to destroy. I have come so that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Blessings

[firstborn888]

   The main knock against the emergent church is a 'no absolutes' kind of attitude by some of it's leaders. Plus, a generic spirituality is espoused (by some) that leaves the door open for an 'anything goes' new age type approach to worship, truth etc. However I WAS impressed with Doug Paggit's responses and how he busted the fundy 'pie in the sky' heaven concept.
   It's so strange to watch the polarization process. I've noticed how the Calvinists seem to really hate the emergent movement the most because it 'cheapens' their blessed election status. Totally Phariseeical.   
-b