Sheep and Goats

[jbertonbounds]

I don't know a whole lot about raising sheep and goats, but I understand that they are usually kept separate.  I do know that sheep and goats have different needs, and must be handled differently.  Does the farmer love the sheep but not the goats?  NO.  He loves them all.  Did he acquire goats and raise and care for them only to brutally kill them all in the end?  NO.  Does he torture them because they are not the same as the sheep?  NO.  Does he expect them for morph into sheep?  NO.  He knows goats will be goats, and sheep will be sheep.  In my ET days, I always had a dread of raising goats, simply because it reminded me of the dreadful scenario of the Lord separating the sheep from the goats and sending the goats off to roast in hell forever after having received a good scolding.  HORRORS! :eek:

Our Father in Heaven loves all his creation :HeartThrob: : sheep, goats, snakes, pigs, dolphins, bears, gnus, llamas, rabbits, rats, dogs, cats, salamanders ... you get the point.  Oh yes, and HUMANS.  ALL humans!  He will care for us like a good farmer will care for ALL his sheep and goats.  I believe he will handle the "goats" differently from the "sheep," but lovingly, justly, humanely.  Oh, and he will turn the goats into sheep because with God, all things are possible!

Jonah 4:11     And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?"
1Pe 5:7     ...casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.
Rom 8:39     ...nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[Lazarus Short]

The realization came on me one day that sheep and goats are BOTH clean animals.  When God, through the Bible, divides people into sheep/goats, wheat/chaff, wheat/tares, He is making another point than blessing to one, and destruction (or worse) to the other.

[Molly]

The sheep and the goats are nations.   The sheep are the Christian nations.  All Old and New Testament prophecy is understood in this light.   They will be judged by their treatment of Israel.






"All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;

And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.

"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Mat 25:32-34

[marie glen]

The sheep and the goats are nations.   The sheep are the Christian nations.  All Old and New Testament prophecy is understood in this light.   They will be judged by their treatment of Israel.

oh yes, I forgot that! That's why the goats are "into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" at His return when He comes with fire and angels (2 Thess 1:7,8)

[lastpost]

I see the sheep as they who try to keep a clean heart and mind, even though they may have found themselves failing a thousand times, but at least they have found themselves failing and have sought to raise themselves up again and try harder still by calling to the Gentle Shepherd to guide them and keep them safe even from themselves. To such as these are opened the celestial gates into a Land of Promise where only those who know their own limited frailty without the Power which comes from God may enter. The sheep seek to give to others all that they have been given, and they desire to continue in such giving because they know they have more yet to be given by the Giver of gifts - and they know that this Divine generosity continues for eternity.

The goats are they who do not find themselves failing in anything, who take all they can of the world without a thought or impulse of gratitude to the Giver of all good things, without a conscience that when they take more than they need they are depriving someone else of something, without a care that when they forge forward in their desire to possess as much of the world as possible someone somewhere has suffered in order for their gain. The goats are they who do not care for the hurt they cause to others, who do not even realise that they have been tempted in a thousand things and have transgressed a thousand laws so that in their souls exists a darkness which must surely be made good in time to come with much expiation, pain and misery while the sickness in their souls is healed, for the laws of Love cannot be violated without consequences returned to the violator with a precision that surpasses the mind to cognise. God is not mocked, what a man sows he shall reap - but it is not the will of the God who is Love, no, He urged again and again to be obedient and patient - the doer has done it to himself - he has opposed laws that govern all life in the same way that one who is careless on the cliff edge will fall to the valley floor by the law of gravity.

The Good Shepherd carries in His loving arms a lamb and on His secure shoulder a goat. He is the Saviour of all in His own good time. Peace.

[jbertonbounds]

I see the sheep as they who try to keep a clean heart and mind, even though they may have found themselves failing a thousand times, but at least they have found themselves failing and have sought to raise themselves up again and try harder still by calling to the Gentle Shepherd to guide them and keep them safe even from themselves. To such as these are opened the celestial gates into a Land of Promise where only those who know their own limited frailty without the Power which comes from God may enter. The sheep seek to give to others all that they have been given, and they desire to continue in such giving because they know they have more yet to be given by the Giver of gifts - and they know that this Divine generosity continues for eternity.

The goats are they who do not find themselves failing in anything, who take all they can of the world without a thought or impulse of gratitude to the Giver of all good things, without a conscience that when they take more than they need they are depriving someone else of something, without a care that when they forge forward in their desire to possess as much of the world as possible someone somewhere has suffered in order for their gain. The goats are they who do not care for the hurt they cause to others, who do not even realise that they have been tempted in a thousand things and have transgressed a thousand laws so that in their souls exists a darkness which must surely be made good in time to come with much expiation, pain and misery while the sickness in their souls is healed, for the laws of Love cannot be violated without consequences returned to the violator with a precision that surpasses the mind to cognise. God is not mocked, what a man sows he shall reap - but it is not the will of the God who is Love, no, He urged again and again to be obedient and patient - the doer has done it to himself - he has opposed laws that govern all life in the same way that one who is careless on the cliff edge will fall to the valley floor by the law of gravity.

The Good Shepherd carries in His loving arms a lamb and on His secure shoulder a goat. He is the Saviour of all in His own good time. Peace.

A very good description of the sheep and goats.
A very good description of the Savior! :thumbsup:

[jabcat]

The sheep and the goats are nations.   The sheep are the Christian nations.  All Old and New Testament prophecy is understood in this light.   They will be judged by their treatment of Israel.

:thumbsup:  Context.

[Lazarus Short]

I see the sheep as they who try to keep a clean heart and mind, even though they may have found themselves failing a thousand times, but at least they have found themselves failing and have sought to raise themselves up again and try harder still by calling to the Gentle Shepherd to guide them and keep them safe even from themselves. To such as these are opened the celestial gates into a Land of Promise where only those who know their own limited frailty without the Power which comes from God may enter. The sheep seek to give to others all that they have been given, and they desire to continue in such giving because they know they have more yet to be given by the Giver of gifts - and they know that this Divine generosity continues for eternity.

The goats are they who do not find themselves failing in anything, who take all they can of the world without a thought or impulse of gratitude to the Giver of all good things, without a conscience that when they take more than they need they are depriving someone else of something, without a care that when they forge forward in their desire to possess as much of the world as possible someone somewhere has suffered in order for their gain. The goats are they who do not care for the hurt they cause to others, who do not even realise that they have been tempted in a thousand things and have transgressed a thousand laws so that in their souls exists a darkness which must surely be made good in time to come with much expiation, pain and misery while the sickness in their souls is healed, for the laws of Love cannot be violated without consequences returned to the violator with a precision that surpasses the mind to cognise. God is not mocked, what a man sows he shall reap - but it is not the will of the God who is Love, no, He urged again and again to be obedient and patient - the doer has done it to himself - he has opposed laws that govern all life in the same way that one who is careless on the cliff edge will fall to the valley floor by the law of gravity.

The Good Shepherd carries in His loving arms a lamb and on His secure shoulder a goat. He is the Saviour of all in His own good time. Peace.

Well said!  :iagree:

[micah7:9]

 :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[jbertonbounds]

This scripture is deep and highly symbolic.
Most of the translations listed in blueletterbible.org do say all nations will be gathered and he will separate "them"...
However, several of the translations say all nations will be gathered and he will separate "people"...

This makes a big difference IMO.
It makes more sense to me that he would judge people individually, rather than as national groups.
This begs the question, how do we interpret the word "nations?"

The scriptures make it clear that we are blessed if we bless Israel.
The question here is, how do we define "Israel?"
There are many opinions on just how the name should be defined.

Jesus said to the ones gathered, "For I was hungry and you gave me food...," or "For I was hungry and you gave me no food..."
As for these statements, I can see how one might interpret this as being how we treat Israel, but are we not to do these things for all people?

[sheila]

the goat is the spirit of the prince of this world...it's power's and principalities...  the lamb beast spoke as a dragon=

overcome saints..by the prince of this world........the ram was powerless to stand..the goat knocked him to the

  ground and trampled him...it grew until it reached the host of heaven..and threw some of the starry host to the earth

and trampled them=[saints overcome]

  when at last there is a dashing of the power of the saints to the ground...they are helped with a little help[Holy spirit]

  the court sits...Ancient of days comes...and the Kingdom is given unto the saints=two wittnesses /testimony

of Jesus Christ and Holy spirit..lie dead in the streets...til breath of God enters them..and they receive wisdom

from above.  Michael standing up..the Prince who protects your people...will arise=deliverance of manchild[do I bring to

birth and not give deliverance]   WHO IS LIKE GOD? certainly not the boastful mouth that exalts himself and says

unheard of things 'against" the GOD of gods..he attacks with the help of a 'foreign' god.


  multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake....all the virgins slept...the wise awaken take oil in their lamps

and shine as the stars in heaven..at the wedding supper of the Lamb..the true word of God..not the overcome Lqmb

that spake as a dragon

   so yes..it applies to nations..princes of this world..but also..to people....we each have our own unlawful mixing

in our bodies/clay vessels....that must be overcome by the spirit..and put in subjection under our feet...come up here

born again from above by the will of God

  the Lord will appear again....seperate from sin..and when He does..you shall find your life hidden in Him..for you shall

be as He is....seperated from sin..and found Holy spotless without blemish..for as you suffered in His likeness...

bearing sin in your flesh as a torture stake..bearing the wounds of Christ in your body..yet no one can say...

  Christ is accursed.........if His Holy spirit dwell in you.

   when the power of the holy people has finally been broken...the Lamb spake as a dragon..the goat trampled..ahouse

divided against itself can not stand...so if you are to stand...He must seperate you from sin.

[jabcat]

For consideration - IMO, if we look through scripture, there are definitely national judgments.  Not about salvation, i.e., individual standing with the Lord through grace - but consequences as a nation, blessings/curses, based upon either turning toward or turning from God.

For instance - despite all the individual believers in America, I believe we are still currently in decline and facing God's judgment as a nation - as we continually turn from Him.    :2c:

[eaglesway]

Sheep follow the shepherd and are kept in the sheepfold, or led out beside still water, to graze upo the green grass. Sheep cling to one another in flocks. Sheep hear the Sheperds Voice and are scattered through out "every nation and tongue".

Goats butt heads with one another. They will eat almost anything. You have to keep them tethered to a pole. They too are scattered among all the tribes of the earth.

Their is only one nation of sheep, their is only one sheepfold. Jesus is the door and he has chosen shepherds from among all nations, disciples who "gather", not scatter- ambassadors of the word of reconciliation.

2Co 5:18-19  Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,   namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

[jbertonbounds]

Sheep follow the shepherd and are kept in the sheepfold, or led out beside still water, to graze upo the green grass. Sheep cling to one another in flocks. Sheep hear the Sheperds Voice and are scattered through out "every nation and tongue".

Goats butt heads with one another. They will eat almost anything. You have to keep them tethered to a pole. They too are scattered among all the tribes of the earth.

Their is only one nation of sheep, their is only one sheepfold. Jesus is the door and he has chosen shepherds from among all nations, disciples who "gather", not scatter- ambassadors of the word of reconciliation.

2Co 5:18-19  Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,   namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

An interesting scripture verse.
How can the ET'ers read that verse and simply not believe what it is saying?
Tunnel vision, perhaps?

[anna274]

Sheep follow the shepherd and are kept in the sheepfold, or led out beside still water, to graze upo the green grass. Sheep cling to one another in flocks. Sheep hear the Sheperds Voice and are scattered through out "every nation and tongue".

Goats butt heads with one another. They will eat almost anything. You have to keep them tethered to a pole. They too are scattered among all the tribes of the earth.

Their is only one nation of sheep, their is only one sheepfold. Jesus is the door and he has chosen shepherds from among all nations, disciples who "gather", not scatter- ambassadors of the word of reconciliation.

2Co 5:18-19  Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,   namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

For consideration - IMO, if we look through scripture, there are definitely national judgments.  Not about salvation, i.e., individual standing with the Lord through grace - but consequences as a nation, blessings/curses, based upon either turning toward or turning from God.

For instance - despite all the individual believers in America, I believe we are still currently in decline and facing God's judgment as a nation - as we continually turn from Him.    :2c:

eaglesway and jabcat... Thanks so much.  You two men always challenge me with your very "meaty" posts... I will chew slowly and very carefully :)  things you men brought to the "table"   l.  ministry of reconciliation and 2. the whole issue of nations aka Gentiles. 

[jabcat]

:)  :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

Sheep follow the shepherd and are kept in the sheepfold, or led out beside still water, to graze upo the green grass. Sheep cling to one another in flocks. Sheep hear the Sheperds Voice and are scattered through out "every nation and tongue".

Goats butt heads with one another. They will eat almost anything. You have to keep them tethered to a pole. They too are scattered among all the tribes of the earth.

Their is only one nation of sheep, their is only one sheepfold. Jesus is the door and he has chosen shepherds from among all nations, disciples who "gather", not scatter- ambassadors of the word of reconciliation.

2Co 5:18-19  Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,   namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

An interesting scripture verse.
How can the ET'ers read that verse and simply not believe what it is saying?
Tunnel vision, perhaps?

Maybe thats why so many after death experiences and visions of hell begin with "and then it was like I went through this tunnel, yea, that's the ticket, it was a tunnel"....  :laughing7:

[eaglesway]

Sheep follow the shepherd and are kept in the sheepfold, or led out beside still water, to graze upo the green grass. Sheep cling to one another in flocks. Sheep hear the Sheperds Voice and are scattered through out "every nation and tongue".

Goats butt heads with one another. They will eat almost anything. You have to keep them tethered to a pole. They too are scattered among all the tribes of the earth.

Their is only one nation of sheep, their is only one sheepfold. Jesus is the door and he has chosen shepherds from among all nations, disciples who "gather", not scatter- ambassadors of the word of reconciliation.

2Co 5:18-19  Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,   namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

For consideration - IMO, if we look through scripture, there are definitely national judgments.  Not about salvation, i.e., individual standing with the Lord through grace - but consequences as a nation, blessings/curses, based upon either turning toward or turning from God.

For instance - despite all the individual believers in America, I believe we are still currently in decline and facing God's judgment as a nation - as we continually turn from Him.    :2c:

eaglesway and jabcat... Thanks so much.  You two men always challenge me with your very "meaty" posts... I will chew slowly and very carefully :)  things you men brought to the "table"   l.  ministry of reconciliation and 2. the whole issue of nations aka Gentiles.

Thanks Anna.....

I do believe in national judgments, but I believe they occur "in earth, in time" as kingdoms rise and fall.

I also believe that the US is in decline, but I don't think we were ever as righteous as we think we are. We committed genocide against the people of the land, we enslaved millions of black people and then oppressed them for 100 years after we "set them free", we have struggled in our national soul, with issues of social and economic equity from the beginning- and if we are familiar with the prophets we know that these are among the primary reasons nations rise and fall. "This is the fast that I choose, to care for widows and orphans, to break every yoke, etc...."

I believe God raised up the America, not because of our righteousness- but to be a sort of Cyrus for the repatriation of Israel and a "horn of plenty" for the gospel.

Also, as I have said before that I believe Jonah and his gourd are a prophesy of sorts, and that the U.S. is a gourd giving Israel shade (as they grumble at God about the prosperity of the "goyim":o). That gourd must be withered so that God may have His glory and deliver Israel "by His own hand", and reveal Messiah to them in as a people, as is prophesied in so many of the prophets, like Ezekiel, Daniel and others.

This interestingly enough goes with the verses in John, "If anyone does not abide in the vine they will dry up(wither) as a branch and be cut-off, gathered up by men, and cast into the fire" which could be taken as a warning to individuals, communities, churches and nations, imo

Also in 1 Cor 3:15 we see the "withering"....

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles(phtheiri, corrupt, defile, wither) the temple of God, God will destroy(phtheiri) him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

As corruption rises in our nation we can be assured it is at least partly because the "salt has lost its savor".... the church is no longer acting as a preservative because it is defiled, corrupt, even as its gospel is defiled, corrupt - and as the churches wither so also the nation follows.

I see a separation coming, one true church/nation/kingdom of priests being drawn together and forced into the light by the increase of darkness and corruption- and an increased manifestation of darkness also- caused by the hand of God coming upon His people, for where the light is the darkness is exposed/made manifest for what it is, and we know the adversary hates to be exposed :o)

[anna274]

Sheep follow the shepherd and are kept in the sheepfold, or led out beside still water, to graze upo the green grass. Sheep cling to one another in flocks. Sheep hear the Sheperds Voice and are scattered through out "every nation and tongue".

Goats butt heads with one another. They will eat almost anything. You have to keep them tethered to a pole. They too are scattered among all the tribes of the earth.

Their is only one nation of sheep, their is only one sheepfold. Jesus is the door and he has chosen shepherds from among all nations, disciples who "gather", not scatter- ambassadors of the word of reconciliation.

2Co 5:18-19  Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,   namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

An interesting scripture verse.
How can the ET'ers read that verse and simply not believe what it is saying?
Tunnel vision, perhaps?

Maybe thats why so many after death experiences and visions of hell begin with "and then it was like I went through this tunnel, yea, that's the ticket, it was a tunnel"....  :laughing7:

eaglesway and jbertonbounds, pray tell, what kind of "vision" did you have before the Holy Spirit guided you into truth?????

[jbertonbounds]

eaglesway and jbertonbounds, pray tell, what kind of "vision" did you have before the Holy Spirit guided you into truth?????

Anna,
I have never had a vision proper.  However, I have had many prophetic dreams.  About a year ago, on April Fools day, I had a wonderful dream I interpreted as being God's promise to me to shed the light of his truth on me.  I can't help but wonder if the date of the dream was also prophetic, as God makes the foolish wise, and the wise foolish.  Here is a narrative of the dream from my dream journal:

I dreamed I was out in front of our church building on a meeting night, when suddenly, a star in the sky started becoming unusually bright.  There were only a few (three or four) people around me who were noticing the spectacle.  I looked up at it and quickly realized that it was the light of Christ and it was coming down to us.  I immediately fell prostrate on my face and cried out, "Give us your light, Lord Jesus, give us your light."  Then suddenly, the light became extremely bright and I could feel it's warmth on my body.   :dsunny:

[jabcat]

"what kind of vision"

seems we're all veiled to varying extents.  unable to see unless God gives us to see.  shine the light in love.  The Light is Jesus.   :dsunny:  blessings.

[anna274]

"what kind of vision"

seems we're all veiled to varying extents.  unable to see unless God gives us to see.  shine the light in love.  The Light is Jesus.   :dsunny:  blessings.

re:  shine the light in love

O THOU WHO MAKEST SOULS TO SHINE Armstrong, 1847 

O Thou who makest souls to shine
With light from brighter worlds above,
Now send Thy glistening dew divine
On all who seek a Savior's love!

Do Thou Thy benediction give
On all who teach, on all who learn,
That all Thy Church may holier live,
And every lamp more brightly burn.

Give those that teach pure hearts and wise,
Faith, hope, and love, all warmed by prayer;
Themselves first training for the skies,
They best will raise their people there.

Give those, who learn, the willing ear,
The spirit meek, the guileless mind;
Such gifts will make the lowliest here
Far better than a kingdom find.

O bless the shepherd, bless the sheep,
That guide and guided both be one --
One in the faithful watch they keep,
Until this hurrying life be done.

If thus, good Lord, Thy grace be giv'n,
In Thee to live, in Thee to die,
Before we upward pass to eternity,
We taste our immortality.

based on Phil 2:15  Ye shine as lights in the world

====================

re:  The Light is Jesus

SHINING FOR JESUS    Oatman, 1895

Shining for Jesus everywhere I go,
Shining for Jesus in this world of woe;
Shining for Jesus, more like Him I grow;
Shining all the time for Jesus.

Refrain
Shining all the time, shining all the time;
Shining for Jesus, beams of love divine;
Glorifying Him every day and hour;
Shining all the time for Jesus.


Shining for Jesus, for He died for me;
Shining for Jesus, for He set me free;
Shining for Jesus, let the whole world see,
Shining all the time for Jesus.


Shining for Jesus when the way is bright;
Shining for Jesus in the darkest night;
Shining for Jesus, making burdens light;
Shining all the time for Jesus.


Shining for Jesus, with a helping hand,
Shining for Jesus, helping others stand;
Shining while marching to the promised land,
Shining all the time for Jesus.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:  Amen!