Are All Universalists "Old Folk?"

[jbertonbounds]

I know within MYSELF there's plenty of unknown, things I change my views/understandings on - things I wish I understood or had the insight into.  So I'm not saying "I've got it figured out"   :laughing7:.   We all need Him.  So being as the Bereans, and yes, waiting on Him, hearts open, will surrendered, keeping our eyes on Him.     :thumbsup:

That's good, because if we ever say "I've got it figured out," then we have become "wise and learned" (in the sense that the Pharisees were).  I know people who "have all the answers" when it comes to religious teachings.  They are often seminary graduates (no offense to any of you who may have gone to seminary -  I know they are not all like that).  They are usually those who have been taught the doctrines of their denomination, and if you differ in opinion on a matter, you are always WRONG!  Then they proceed to correct you by regurgitating the teachings they received while in school.  Of course I'm not talking about all people educated in religious schools.  Only the few I have encountered who, without saying so, I knew considered themselves a cut above me spiritually. 

[jbertonbounds]

I'm a realist=considers things as they are NOW, so I use Phil 2:10-11 ( every knee bow at the name of Jesus and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father) in testing the spirits whether they are of God 1 John 4:1

My one BIG question always is: to what name are they bowing and to what name are they confessing?

Does the person, the singer, the book, etc., lead me to bowing at the name of Jesus, or to idolizing a human being,  a man-organized belief system, etc., etc.,
My one desire is to know Jesus, Him crucified and the power of His resurrection.

Awesome, Anna! 
This is a very interest perspective.
I'm going to try to remember this when I encounter teachings I question in the future. 
Isn't there a scripture that says to question all things or test all things or something like that?  (I searched but couldn't find it.)

[anna274]

re: testing the spirits

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God;  because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

one of my favorite one liners:
1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 

[jbertonbounds]

That may be the scripture I was thinking about. Thanks.

[CHB]

(1Thess. 5:21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

CHB

[jabcat]

Then there are tons of folks on facebook etc.  who call themselves bishops and apostles who are teaching their own versions of the gospel.  Much confusion, IMO.
Sure, I agree there's much confusion and division within denominations too.   As Gary says, this is an age of [extreme] mixture of truth and error.  IMO, we've got a long ways to go until there's true unity - and also IMO, that's not going to happen until Jesus steps in and straightens things out.  He knows what He's doing!  It's coming!

Yes, there is such a mixture, that if we focus on the confusion of it all, we will become confused ourselves.  We must always focus on God's word, and measure everything by the scriptures and the Holy Spirit's teaching.  We must always be devoted to prayer, worship, and good works (which is worship).  Then the Spirit will lead us in Truth.

Amen.   :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Then there are tons of folks on facebook etc.  who call themselves bishops and apostles who are teaching their own versions of the gospel.  Much confusion, IMO.
Sure, I agree there's much confusion and division within denominations too.   As Gary says, this is an age of [extreme] mixture of truth and error.  IMO, we've got a long ways to go until there's true unity - and also IMO, that's not going to happen until Jesus steps in and straightens things out.  He knows what He's doing!  It's coming!

Yes, there is such a mixture, that if we focus on the confusion of it all, we will become confused ourselves.  We must always focus on God's word, and measure everything by the scriptures and the Holy Spirit's teaching.  We must always be devoted to prayer, worship, and good works (which is worship).  Then the Spirit will lead us in Truth.

Amen.   :thumbsup:

I believe there will be a unified body rising up to meet the Lord when He comes. I am not saying I think all Christians will be unified, I don't. Only  "the wise virgins" are hearing the call to "Come out" and go to the "wedding" of the Bride and the Lamb.


Only the overcomers are concerned with the unity of the body- they are not seeking to advance their own spiritual careers(sarcsm) or running from suffering or seeking to attai the complete mastery of some perspective sytematic theology or another.

Overcomers are mature, but they are not necessarily old. They may be new believers but they are "ripe" on the stalk- ready to fall into the ground and die in order to produce more fruit for the kingdom, such as Stephen the deacon/evangelist of Acts.

You know how lightning works?

Positive ions build up in the clouds and on the ground as negative ions build up in the air and at a certain point the collide and energy is released into the void between them.

This unified mature body is prophesied, imo, in Ephesians 1 and 4, Revelations10 and 12, and acts 2- among others, as a result of the Headship of Jesus functioning in members of the Body ad by the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

IMO, It is simply unbelief in the fact that God will still operate supernaturally in the earth, and operate primarily THROUGH AND AMONG HIS PEOPLE, that causes us always to look for natural cause and geo-political developements to read the signs of the times. I read the signs of the times through the Body of Christ.

It shall come to pass in the last days says the Lord that I will pour out of my spirit on all flesh.

This age began with a tremendous outpouring, I believe it will go out the same way it came in- a manifestation of a holy, loving wonderful God dwelling in the midst of a remnant. Martyrs in whom the sufferings of Christ will be finished in the end of the age.

Rom 8:18,19 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

2Ti 2:10-12  Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.  (11)  It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:  (12)  If we suffer, we shall also reign with him:

Php 3:8-11  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,  (9)  And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:  (10)  That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;  (11)  If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead(IMO Paul is speaking of the first resurrection).


The Bride will begin to come down out of the heavens as more positive ions build up here on the ground(overcomers being "beautiful feet" in earth) and more positive ions build up in the heavens(overcomers/martyrs under the altar, before the throne) creating a conduit for energy to be released "in the air"- dethroning the "prince of the power of the air" and "manifesting Jesus Chist" as the "light of the world before men". This is the Lord's doing and it is marvelous in His sight.

"For the coming of the son of man will be as the lightning shining from the east to the west"-(across every visible horizon spiritually and physically)

:2c: :2c: :2c: :2c:

[mplsfitter539]

Eaglesway,
This was awesome "This age began with a tremendous outpouring, I believe it will go out the same way it came in- a manifestation of a holy, loving wonderful God dwelling in the midst of a remnant. Martyrs in whom the sufferings of Christ will be finished in the end of the age."

This agrees with my own theology, thank you for the confirmation. :banana:

[Lazarus Short]

I liked Eaglesway's lightning metaphor, and have a bit to add.  Modern satellite imaging has shown that a lightning bolt does not stop in the thundercloud - it reaches beyond, to the very edge of space.  The electrical potential is truly between the earth and the heavens.

[reFORMer]

To add to the bolt of lightening image, the exchange of power is the hiding place of thunder.  The sound of "His voice is upon the face of the waters."  The Word daily coming upon us, the coming to identify us with the brightness of His glory results in great voices.  Humanity's Savior says, "I answered you in the secret place of thunder." (Ps 81⁷)

Luke 17, Concordant Literal
23 And they shall be declaring to you, 'Lo! there!' or 'Lo! here!' You may not come away, nor yet should you be pursuing.
24 For even as the lightning, flashing out from here under heaven to there under heaven, is shining, thus will be the Son of Mankind in His day.
25 Yet first He must be suffering many things and be rejected by this generation.

"Lightning" here Thayer's refers to as "the light of a lamp."  I think I remember astrope is rather generic, including what we mean by "lightning," as an electrical discharge, a bolt of lightning, light cast by a lamp, or when dawn comes up.

The latter has meant a lot to me.  Dawn is not sudden, but it is rather fast.  When it comes it happens everywhere around us.  "From here..to there..." the entire heaven is lightened.  It's not something done in a corner.  The birds, symbolic of spirits, skydwellers, greet the advent of light with high voices before the other lifeforms bear witness, they help awaken us in our resurrection out of sleep.  The day starts with a fiery wound in the eastern sky.

By omission Luke notes how it is not so much a coming from somewhere else, but everywhere an inescapable light grows brighter, an identity becoming manifest in a new way.  It is the LORD Himself in the midst of us.  When Jesus says, "Thus will be the Son of Mankind in His day," it is larger than his Adamic identity.  We also, as Sons of Humans made to drink of that One Spirit, are fulfillers of the Messianic position and function.  Jesus says not only that, "They shall be one flock," but continues with, "[They shall be] one shepherd."  We are in the day of the Lord, the day which has no genesis nor setting of its lamp.  We are that day breaking upon the world.

"The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. (Rm 13¹²)  Our, "...putting on the "implements of light" correspond with wearing Him, "The-Light-of-the-world."

"Arise, become light, for your light is coming and the glory of IEUE is rising upon you." (Is 60¹)

[sheila]

Psalms 29      the voice of the Lord strikes with flashes of lightening, the voice of the Lord shakes the desert of Kadesg

  the voice of the Lord twists the oaks and strips the forests bare.And in His temple,all cry ,GLORY!

   The Lord sit's enthroned over the flood,The Lord is enthroned as King forever.

   The Lord gives strength to His people,The Lord Blesses His people with peace.

[jbertonbounds]

Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be sudden!
Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be   g  r  a  d  u  a  l.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be unnoticed by most of the world, just like his first coming.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be by appearances to different people at different times as they are ready.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus has already taken place centuries ago.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus has already taken place recently.

Hmmm.  This might make a good topic to do a poll on. :Chinscratch:
But then again, it might open up a real can of worms!  :eek:

:dunno2:

[marie glen]

I'm a realist=considers things as they are NOW, so I use Phil 2:10-11 ( every knee bow at the name of Jesus and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father) in testing the spirits whether they are of God 1 John 4:1

My one BIG question always is: to what name are they bowing and to what name are they confessing?

Does the person, the singer, the book, etc., lead me to bowing at the name of Jesus, or to idolizing a human being,  a man-organized belief system, etc., etc.,
My one desire is to know Jesus, Him crucified and the power of His resurrection.

Amen, Anna! :gsmile: :gthumbsup: I will remember that! What a very good "test" (who/what is glorified?).. as you said, in 1 John 4:1, Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

4 "Beloved, every spirit(pneuma/breath) believe not, but prove the spirits, if of God they are, because many false prophets have gone forth to the world;" (I daresay in this modern day there are so many teachings! A good measuring rod is a good thing to have! And very necessary.)

and, 1 Thess 5:21 "prove" (or test) "all things;hold fast what is good"

also, Romans 12:2, Young's Literal Translation (YLT) - "and be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God -- the good, and acceptable, and perfect."

[marie glen]

Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be sudden!
Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be   g  r  a  d  u  a  l.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be unnoticed by most of the world, just like his first coming.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be by appearances to different people at different times as they are ready.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus has already taken place centuries ago.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus has already taken place recently.

Hmmm.  This might make a good topic to do a poll on. :Chinscratch:
But then again, it might open up a real can of worms!  :eek:

:dunno2:

Wow! very interesting! I surely have lived a sheltered adulthood as I've not come across these (being part hermit, or hermit wannabe) I do hope I don't open a can of worms tho! :dunno: :blush: i'm not usually much for causing trouble.. ...but concerning the teaching that Jesus has come the second time.. i have to wonder when, does every eye see Him as He returns(MT 24).. and how is it that Acts 1:11 says "...Why are you men from Galilee standing here and looking up into the sky? Jesus has been taken to heaven. But he will come back in the same way that you have seen him go."....?

[jbertonbounds]

I don't subscribe to any of those schools of doctrine on the second coming.
Actually, I have not studied the second coming and eschatology enough yet to really know what I believe about it.

[Lazarus Short]

The condition of the sky being ripped aside like an old rag when Jesus comes tells me that we can not miss it, except maybe troglodytes.

[jbertonbounds]

Troglowhats?

[rosered]

Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be sudden!
Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be   g  r  a  d  u  a  l.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be unnoticed by most of the world, just like his first coming.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus will be by appearances to different people at different times as they are ready.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus has already taken place centuries ago.
Some believe the second coming of Jesus has already taken place recently.

Hmmm.  This might make a good topic to do a poll on. :Chinscratch:
But then again, it might open up a real can of worms!  :eek:

:dunno2:

Wow! very interesting! I surely have lived a sheltered adulthood as I've not come across these (being part hermit, or hermit wannabe) I do hope I don't open a can of worms tho! :dunno: :blush: i'm not usually much for causing trouble.. ...but concerning the teaching that Jesus has come the second time.. i have to wonder when, does every eye see Him as He returns(MT 24).. and how is it that Acts 1:11 says "...Why are you men from Galilee standing here and looking up into the sky? Jesus has been taken to heaven. But he will come back in the same way that you have seen him go."....?

Great questions and wonderful insights ! Sista M  and Bro Jb
I dont think its opening up a can of worms
  but opening up the womb  maybe  ? more insights

   womb Exd 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, [both] of man and of beast: it [is] mine.


Strong's H7358 - rechem  womb
  matrix     innermost parts    From רָחַם (H7355) to love deeply ,compassion ,mercy

Luk 2:23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)Strong's G3388 - mētra 

Strong's G3384 - mētēr   womb  from Strong's G3384 - mētēr
1) a mother

2) metaph. the source of something, the motherland


Jesus comes as a thief in the night
but to those whom are eagerly awaiting Him He comes a second time without sin Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Luk 1:78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,To give light to them that sit in darkness and [in] the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.  


God is good  :HeartThrob:

[Lazarus Short]

Troglowhats?

It's a fancy word for cave-dweller.  Like me - whenever I go down into the local Cavern, I feel like I'm home.

[jbertonbounds]

 :laugh:

[firstborn888]

That's good, because if we ever say "I've got it figured out," then we have become "wise and learned" (in the sense that the Pharisees were).

Yep. The most horrific things done throughout history were done by those who were totally convinced that they were 100% absolutely correct  :thumbsup: