Anyone want to represent?

[ed]

There is a discussion going on, on another board called "Second chance theology".  I'd like to see Universal Reconciliation represented from a Biblical perspective in that thread.  It is not my bag any more, and I am sure someone can represent much better then I.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20871160#post20871160

[ed]

I got hit with a fail safe verse.

II Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

:eek:

:dontknow:

[sheila]

Ed...for He wrapped all up in disobedience..in order to have mercy on all.  from there go to

  Paul's expose about Israel being blinded for a time........hope this helps  :friendstu:

[ed]

OK, here is the latest that I could use some help on.  I explained the greater hope theological position as best I could......................a participant would like some verses explained.  I told him I'd do some research on any particular verse he'd like.  Or at least I'll try to portray the Greater Hopes theological take on it.  Thanks for your help folks.
I linked this thread at the bottom.

His post:
Except for the verses that explain the lost and destroyed.

Ezekiel 28:18-19. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20900226&posted=1#post20900226

[Lazarus Short]

I got hit with a fail safe verse.

II Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The trouble with that, is that it can be used to tag any theological/theoillogical position you don't like as a "strong delusion."

How about this rebuttal:  And for this cause shall this website give them a strong delusion, that they should believe weak materials - they will be cheated who believe not in steel pistols, but in plastic imitations [Glocks].  :footmouth:  I don't mean to insult you if you are into Glock pistols, but I have owned only one plastic pistol (not a Glock) and it had its problems...

[shawn]

I got hit with a fail safe verse.

II Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The trouble with that, is that it can be used to tag any theological/theoillogical position you don't like as a "strong delusion."

How about this rebuttal:  And for this cause shall this website give them a strong delusion, that they should believe weak materials - they will be cheated who believe not in steel pistols, but in plastic imitations [Glocks].  :footmouth:

I would think this verse could go either way.  I would be interested in the greek root word for damned.

[ed]

I got hit with a fail safe verse.

II Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The trouble with that, is that it can be used to tag any theological/theoillogical position you don't like as a "strong delusion."

How about this rebuttal:  And for this cause shall this website give them a strong delusion, that they should believe weak materials - they will be cheated who believe not in steel pistols, but in plastic imitations [Glocks].  :footmouth:

I would think this verse could go either way.  I would be interested in the greek root word for damned.

LOL great!

I had a G26 for a while.  I never warmed up to the trigger.  I joined the website when I owned it.  It is my only frequented Gun board.  Lots of good all around gun topics there so I stayed even though I no longer own a plastic gun............wait, I do have a Ruger LCR 22.  I really like the LCR.

[ed]

His post:
Except for the verses that explain the lost and destroyed.

Ezekiel 28:18-19. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

OK, I'll take a stab at this.  "and never shalt thou be any more" is talking about a certain age.  That is all I got.  Anyone want to help me with this verse?

Thanks Ed.

[Graph1159]

Given the verse quoted, I am assuming that the person you debated with believes in Annihilation?

[ed]

Are there any other versions that say "the age"?

The only one I could find was the YLT.

Ezekiel 28:19 (YLT) All knowing thee among the peoples Have been astonished at thee, Wastes thou hast been, and thou art not -- to the age.'

Exhaustive would be great.

Thanks.

[ed]

Given the verse quoted, I am assuming that the person you debated with believes in Annihilation?

Yes.  His sect is big on the Bible from the Annihilation view point.  It is better then ET, but not as good as the greater hope.  I figure a thread called "The Bible God's love letter to us" deserves the full gospel.   :winkgrin:

[ed]

Today's rebuttal to "God hath concluded all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all." (Rom. xi. 32.)

"Yes, God will have mercy upon all who accept the Savior as Lord."

I think a word study on the word "might" in Rom 11:32 is in order.  Any other favorite verses on mercy?  Thanks,
ed

[Seth]

OK, here is the latest that I could use some help on.  I explained the greater hope theological position as best I could......................a participant would like some verses explained.  I told him I'd do some research on any particular verse he'd like.  Or at least I'll try to portray the Greater Hopes theological take on it.  Thanks for your help folks.
I linked this thread at the bottom.

His post:
Except for the verses that explain the lost and destroyed.

Ezekiel 28:18-19. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20900226&posted=1#post20900226

Hi Ed,
First of all, here is the translation of the end of Ezekiel 28:19

"ayin ad olam" which means "shall not exist within/through the age" (or an age). Basically, for a time, not "never be anymore."  :doh:

As to the fire, here is what I believe the fire is "from the midst of thee:"


Isaiah 9:18-20
His anger is not turned away, his hand is still upraised. Surely WICKEDNESS burns like a fire; it consumes briers and thorns, it sets the forest thickets ablaze, so that it rolls upward in a column of smoke. By the wrath of the Lord Almighty the land will be scorched and the people will be fuel for the fire; they will not spare one another. On the right they will devour, but still be hungry; on the left they will eat, but not be satisfied.

Compare to:

Romans 1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

That's the fire that destroys the house which comes from "the midst of thee," not some kind of annihilation ball of literal fire.

But as has been said already on this thread: "God hath concluded all in unbelief that he might have mercy on all."

[ed]

Hi Ed,
First of all, here is the translation of the end of Ezekiel 28:19

"ayin ad olam" which means "shall not exist within/through the age" (or an age). Basically, for a time, not "never be anymore."  :doh:

As to the fire, here is what I believe the fire is "from the midst of thee:"


Isaiah 9:18-20
His anger is not turned away, his hand is still upraised. Surely WICKEDNESS burns like a fire; it consumes briers and thorns, it sets the forest thickets ablaze, so that it rolls upward in a column of smoke. By the wrath of the Lord Almighty the land will be scorched and the people will be fuel for the fire; they will not spare one another. On the right they will devour, but still be hungry; on the left they will eat, but not be satisfied.

Compare to:

Romans 1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

That's the fire that destroys the house which comes from "the midst of thee," not some kind of annihilation ball of literal fire.

But as has been said already on this thread: "God hath concluded all in unbelief that he might have mercy on all."

Thanks Seth.
I really liked your take on God's judgement from your web page.  The part about men being thankful for was awesome.

Do you have in insight on ashes and coming out of the destruction of the flesh?
I may post some of your replies in their entirety as a quote from a friend if that is ok?
Thanks,
Ed

[micah7:9]

"Second chance theology"
Do you see any reason to stay away from such a discussion? You know what they say about arguing with a fool. Here's the hint... it's a THEORY
When man brings the Wisdom of the Lord God down to the the earthy realm what you get is "theory" and from theory usually what is birthed is another sect or denomination and more confusion.
The word damned in 2Thes. 12  G2919 krinō Properly to distinguish, that is, decide

That comes from a judgment G2920 krisis (Subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension a tribunal
And DAMNATION  G2917, G2919, G2920
Mat 12:20  a bruised reed he shall not break, and smoking flax he shall not quench, till he may put forth judgment to victory,
What is that VICTORY? Wait for it.......
1Ti 2:3  for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour,
1Ti 2:4  who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;

The Lord God that found me is 2Pe 3:9  the Lord is not slow in regard to the promise, as certain count slowness, but is long-suffering to us, not counselling any to be lost but all to pass on to reformation,

Where does that judgment begin? 1Pe 4:17  because it is the time of the beginning of the judgment from the house of God, and if first from us, what the end of those disobedient to the good news of God?

[Seth]

Hi Ed, sure go ahead  :thumbsup: