The NT was originally in Aramaic, not Greek. Translations by Younan, Etheridge, Magiera, Bauscher, and Holman of the NT from the Aramaic lack 'hell.'
For Mt 1 - Acts 16, the very best translation is Paul Younan's interlinear; I have a file of what Younan translated formatted as English sentences. I posted an older version of what I have for Younan at and around:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/67oc3xvCb-kJ
For the rest, when I quote an Aramaic translation, it's usually Murdock or Etheridge, with a slight edge to Murdock.
Mageira's is good, and it retains the instances of "Master YHWH" (though they're disguised in her all-caps quotations of Old Testament passages).
I avoid Lamsa's as much as possible, because he apparently disliked the supernatural and to that end watered-down certain passages.
Andrew Gabriel Roth's AENT used someone else's inferior rendition of Younan, and even though it's in its 5th edition, all the missing words and typos still aren't fixed, plus I don't trust his editing of Murdock. The footnotes and 2nd half of the book are, though, interesting.
Bauscher's is OK, though the wording is a little strange at times. The hardcopy's (and I imagine PDF's) footnotes are marvelous in comparing Aramaic lettering with Greek lettering, and making the case for the Aramaic being the original.
Someone I know was impressed with the Spanish translation mentioned below.
Younan - use the Pesh itta Tool http://dukhrana.com/
Etheridge (and Murdock) - use the Pesh itta Tool http://dukhrana.com/
http://www.lulu.com search for Ewan Macleod's Etheridge (and Murdock) translation of the Aramaic
Jan Magiera http://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/english-word-search
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=janet+magiera&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
David Bauscher - Aramaic Bible in Plain English https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/
https://www.lulu.com/shop/rev-david-bauscher/the-original-aramaic-new-testament-in-plain-english-with-psalms-proverbs-8th-edition-with-notes/hardcover/product-21273790.html
Messianic Aleph Tav Interlinear Scriptures - Bill Sanford
https://alephtavscriptures.com/product-category/matis/
William Norton, _A translation, in English daily used, of the Peshi to-Syriac text, and of the received Greek text, of Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, and 1 John : with an introduction on the Peshi to-Syriac text, and the revised Greek text of 1881_ (1889)
https://archive.org/details/translationineng00nort/page/n4
William Norton, _A Translation in English Daily Used of the Seventeen Letters_ (1890)
https://archive.org/details/ATranslationInEnglishDailyUsedOfT
Joseph Pashka, _The Aramaic Gospels and Acts_
https://www.amazon.com/Aramaic-Gospels-Acts-Joseph-Pashka/dp/1591606020/
Biblia Pesh itta (Nuevo Testamento) https://www.bibliatodo.com/la-biblia/version/Pesh ita-nuevo-testamento
The Greek word ainon means 'age/world,' and is often mistranslated as 'eternal.' Young's Literal Translation (YLT) of the Greek translation has renderings of 'age' and 'age-during':
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=YLT&quicksearch=age&begin=47&end=73&limit=500
It also lacks 'hell,' and instead has 'hades' and 'gehenna' and 'Tartarus':
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=hades&qs_version=YLT
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=gehenna&qs_version=YLT
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=tartarus&qs_version=YLT
For the OT, it has 'sheol':
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=sheol&qs_version=YLT
Hell is an accurate translation as it also mean 'hidden'.
It's meaning that's given to the word that's what wrong.
Hell, sheol, gehenna, hades, it doesn't matter if the reader thinks it's about eternal torture.
Changing a word doesn't change the demonic doctrine (re)defining that word.
The above is valid for many Biblical discussions.
Everyone agrees Scripture states Christ is the Savior of all. But the definition of all ranges between 5%-100%
Mistranslations in Your New Testament
Translated From Greek,
Which Was Translated From the Original Aramaic
The popular KJV has 'hell' over 50 times.
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=hell&qs_version=KJV&limit=500
It should have rendered things as 'Sheol' (or 'Gehenna') in the vast majority of cases, and adhered to the way things are in the original Hebrew of the OT and the original Aramaic of the NT.
For the New Testament, the KJV and almost all other translations used Greek manuscripts, and have translation errors and corruptions present in basically all English language NTs translated from Greek. The Assyrian Church of the East claims that they got the NT books (exception: the 'Western Five') from those who originally wrote them in Aramaic, but anyone including a church can claim anything. The best evidence of Aramaic being the original is mistranslations in the Greek translation. Accurate translations of the original Aramaic remove several mistranslations and corruptions present in Greek mss.
*mistranslation at Mt 1:16*
Matthew 1:17 says there are 14, 14, 14 generations.
Greek manuscripts of Matthew's genealogy list 14, 14, 13 generations.
In Aramaic mss. of Matthew's genealogy, with Mt 1:16's "gbra" correctly translated as father/guardian, Matthew's genealogy lists 14, 14, 14 generations.
Mary had a father/guardian named Joseph (plus a husband also called Joseph).
*mistranslation at Mt 26:6 and Mk 14:3*
Do you think Jesus and his disciples visited the house of a leper? The Greek translation from Aramaic has leper at Mt 26:6 and Mk 14:3, while the Aramaic allows for potter. Lepers were unclean and weren't allowed to have guests over. It's actually Simon the _potter_. To continue to call someone a leper even after he'd been healed of leprosy would have constituted slander.
*mistranslation at Mt 7:6*
For Mt 7:6, it's actually 'hang earrings on dogs,' not 'give a holy thing to dogs.'
*mistranslation at Lk 14:26*
The Greek manuscripts have a mistranslation for Lk 14:26, which when translated well reads:
"He who comes to me [Jesus]
and does not *sena* [put aside; contextually improper here: hate, have an aversion to] his father and his mother
and his brothers and his sisters
and his wife and his children
and even himself,
is not able to be a talmida [student] to me."
*mistranslation for Acts 2:24*
When translated well it reads:
"But Allaha [God] loosed the *cords* of Sheol [the Grave/Death] and raised him [Yeshua/Jesus] because it was not possible that he be held in it, in Sheol."
Re: cords, the Greek versions mistranslated this word as 'pain.' Cf. Jn 2:15 & 2 Samuel 22:6. -- Paul Younan
*mistranslation for Acts 5:13*
The Greek manuscripts have a mistranslation for Acts 5:13:
And there was a great fear in all the eidta [congregation], and in all those who heard.
And many mighty deeds and signs occurred by the hands of the Shelikha [Apostles] among the people. And they were all assembled together in the Porch of Shlemon [Soloman].
13. And of other men, not one dared to *touch* them,
rather the people magnified them.
Re: touch, this word can mean "join/commune" but also "touch," the latter undoubtedly being the correct reading. The Greek versions mistranslated this word as "join."--PY
*mistranslation for Acts 8:23*
The Greek manuscripts have a mistranslation for Acts 8:23:
"But repent of this your evil and beseech Allaha [God]. Perhaps you [Simon the sorcerer] will be forgiven the guile of your heart.
23. For I [Shimon Keepa/ Simon Peter] see that you are in bitter *anger*
and in the bonds of iniquity."
Re: anger, the Aramaic word kabda can mean gall/liver/anger. The Greek versions mistranslate "bitter kabda" as "gall of bitterness" instead of the more contextually proper "bitter anger."--PY
*mistranslation for Acts 8:27*
The Greek manuscripts have a mistranslation for Acts 8:27, which when translated well reads:
"And he [Pileepos/ Philip] arose (and) went and met a certain *mahaymina* [believer] who had come from Cush, an official of Qandeq, the malkta [queen] of the Cushi tes, and he was an authority over all her treasures. And he had come to worship in Urishlim."
Re: MHYMNA, it can mean either 'believer' or 'eunuch'-- or many similar things. The Greek versions mistranslate this as 'eunuch' instead of the more contextually correct 'believer.'-- PY. The Ethiopian _believer_ was intending to worship in Jerusalem, presumably in the temple there-- which eunuchs were prohibited from doing by Deut 23:2. Cf. Mt 19:12.
////////////////////////////////////////
*mistranslation at Mark 9:49*
Mark 9:49 (HCSB)
For everyone will be salted with fire.[a: Other mss add
_and every sacrifice will be salted with salt_]
The complete text was present as of A.D. 175:
Diatesseron 25:23
Every _one_ shall be salted with fire,
and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
The original Aramaic has the complete text:
Mark 9:49 (Younan)
For with fire everything will be vaporized,
and with salt every sacrifice will be seasoned.
Incidentally, Greek manuscripts have a mistranslation for Mk 9:49, which when translated well reads:
"For with fire everything will be *vaporized*,
and with salt every sacrifice will be *seasoned*."
Re: vaporized and seasoned, the root MLKh can mean 'to salt, season' or 'to destroy, vaporize, scatter.' The intended meaning shifted between the first and second lines-Meshikha/ the Messiah plays on the dual meaning of MLKh. See Mk 9 PDF of Paul Younan at pesh itta.org, and at http://dukhrana.com
////////////////////////////////////////
*mistranslation at Rev 1:13*
The mistranslation says Jesus has female breasts:
Revelation 1:13 (The Passion Translation)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+1&version=TPT
And walking among the lampstands, I saw someone like a son of man, wearing a full-length robe with a golden sash over his chest.[aj]
The Greek word used here is mastos and is used exclusively for a woman's breasts.
Do you see anything in this Palmer and Barnstone you disagree with?:
David Robert Palmer, The Revelation of John, part of The Holy Bible, The Ancient Greek Text, alternating verse by verse with A new English translation from the Greek, with translator's footnotes and Greek textual variant footnotes (May 2017)
http://bibletranslation.ws/palmer-translation/
PDF:
http://www.bibletranslation.ws/trans/revwgrk.pdf
28 1:13f Literally, "breasts," μαστοῖς but that would be very unidiomatic for English, and it essentially means chest, as in 15:6, where the seven angels also have a golden sash around their chest, and there the Greek word used is στῆθος, "chest." But I didn't want to translate μαστοῖς as a singular word like chest, when the Greek is plural, so I used "pecs" which is short for pectorals.
The Restored New Testament: A New Translation with Commentary, Including the Gnostic Gospels Thomas, Mary, and Judas (2009) by Willis Barnstone, 1485pp., on 1236
https://www.amazon.com/Restored-New-Testament-Translation-Commentary/dp/039306493X/
14. Although the Greek mastois means "breasts," it is commonly translated as "chest" or "waist" or sometimes the singular form "breast."
Are you comfortable with μαστοῖς being at Rev 1:13 in Greek mss.? Do you think στῆθος (stéthos) should have instead been used?
3149. μαστός (mastos)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_3149.htm
Strong's Greek: 3149. μαστός (mastos) — 3 Occurrences
Luke 11:27 N-NMP
GRK: σε καὶ μαστοὶ οὓς ἐθήλασας
NAS: that bore You and the breasts at which
KJV: and the paps which
INT: you and [the] breasts at which you nursed
Luke 23:29 N-NMP
GRK: ἐγέννησαν καὶ μαστοὶ οἳ οὐκ
NAS: bore, and the breasts that never
KJV: bare, and the paps which never
INT: did bear and breasts which never
Revelation 1:13 N-DMP
GRK: πρὸς τοῖς μαστοῖς ζώνην χρυσᾶν
NAS: across His chest with a golden
KJV: about the paps with a golden
INT: at the breasts a belt golden
4738. στῆθος (stéthos)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4738.htm
Strong's Greek: 4738. στῆθος (stéthos) — 5 Occurrences
Luke 18:13 N-ANS
GRK: ἔτυπτεν τὸ στῆθος αὐτοῦ λέγων
NAS: but was beating his breast, saying,
KJV: upon his breast, saying, God
INT: was striking the breast of himself saying
Luke 23:48 N-ANP
GRK: τύπτοντες τὰ στήθη ὑπέστρεφον
NAS: beating their breasts.
KJV: smote their breasts, and returned.
INT: beating the breasts returned [home]
John 13:25 N-ANS
GRK: ἐπὶ τὸ στῆθος τοῦ Ἰησοῦ
NAS: on Jesus' bosom, said
KJV: lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him,
INT: on the breast of Jesus
John 21:20 N-ANS
GRK: ἐπὶ τὸ στῆθος αὐτοῦ καὶ
NAS: had leaned back on His bosom at the supper
KJV: on his breast at supper,
INT: on the bosom of him and
Revelation 15:6 N-ANP
GRK: περὶ τὰ στήθη ζώνας χρυσᾶς
NAS: around their chests with golden
KJV: and having their breasts girded
INT: about the breasts sashes golden
Do you agree with this statement?: "the description τοῖς μαστοῖς in Rev. 1 about Jesus would be surprising to a Greek reader, and μαστός is not used of men in LXX or NT."
https://bulletin.equinoxpub.com/2014/12/jesus-man-breasts/
See: Jesse Rainbow, "Male μαστοί in Revelation 1.13." Journal for the Study of the New Testament 30.2 (2007): 249-253.
Aaron Christianson says: .... Fact Check!
μαστός is used of the male chest as well. Tragedies of Aescylus, Choephoroe, line 545.
LSJ'd! (and not to worry, I TLG'd it too!) Rainbow needs to be careful before he publishes something that can be refuted by checking the most popular Greek Lexicon in existence? and you should Check too! It's online, after all; no excuse not to check.
That?s not to say Jesus doesn't have tits, but I don't think it's a clear teaching from this scripture. I guess we'll have to wait for his glorious appearing to find out.
....
Deane Galbraith says: ....
Hmmmmm? reading the article again, it seems that the author examines only LXX and NT usage of μαστός. Yet, he does make the more general statement that a reference to male breasts "is as striking in Greek as it is in the English", which implies a more general claim. Aeschylus is not contemporary Greek, but, you're right, I should've cross-checked against the usages.
....
Deane Galbraith says: ....
? ok, Aeschylus has καὶ μαστὸν ἀμφέχασκ᾽ ἐμὸν θρεπτήριον in Choephoroe, line 545: a nourishing breast for a baby! This is clearly a woman's breast; man-breasts do not ordinarily provide nourishment. Is this your example of a man-breast?
Yet LSJ doesn't actually cite Aeschylus as an example of the male application of μαστός, but cites Choephoroe, line 545 as a general instance of its use. For a man-breast, LSJ cites some other souces: "of men's breasts, "βάλε δουρὶ στέρνον ὑπὲρ μαζοῖο" [Il.]4.528; "βάλε στῆθος παρὰ μαζόν" 8.121, cf. Od.22.82 [μαζόν], X.An.1.4.17, 4.3.6 [both τῶν μαστῶν]." So, we have three from Homer, and two in Xenophon's Anabasis, and a total of 291 citations. From a quick survey, the mastoi seem to be overwhelmingly women's. Even the metaphorical usage refers to spherical or cup-like objects. I haven't looked at this in any detail, but Rainbow?s conclusion seems to be correct: the description τοῖς μαστοῖς in Rev. 1 about Jesus would be surprising to a Greek reader, and μαστός is not used of men in LXX or NT.
////////////////////////////////////////
*mistranslation at Rev 2:22*
The Greek mistranslation rendered a word as "bed" thereby having an adulterous woman being thrown into a bed. (It should have used "bier.") The KJV translators apparently failed to notice the irony:
Rev 2:21-22 (KJV)
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
The NASB added "of sickness" and were honest in that they put "of sickness" in italics, thereby indicating to the reader that they'd added it beyond what the Greek has:
Rev 2:21-22 (NASB)
21 I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality. 22 Behold, I will throw her on a bed _of sickness_, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds.
Strong's Concordance 2825b. kliné
https://biblehub.com/greek/2825b.htm
kliné: a couch
Transliteration: kliné
Short Definition: bed
Do you agree with me that it'd make more sense if she'd been said to have been thrown onto a mortuary couch i.e. a bier? (Doing such is possible translating from the Aramaic Revelation.)
http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=%28rs+N%20&cits=all
1 bed.... (a) mortuary couch, bier.... when they saw that their bier preceded his bier [i.e. they died before him]. (b) litter.... (c).... a luxurious couch.... (d).... a folding bed made of leather....
////////////////////////////////////////
In the Aramaic, Mt's rendition of the Lord's Prayer has much rhyming. The Aramaic Lk's version has less rhyming. The Greek versions lack rhyming. Do you think that it's possible that someone translated a non-rhyming Greek Lord's Prayer into a rhyming Aramaic Lord's Prayer?
A transliteration of the Aramaic Mt 6:9-13:
Ah-woon ** our Father
d'wash-may-ya ** in heaven
============================
nith-qad-dash shmakh ** holy be Your name
teh'-theh' ** come
mal-koo-thakh ** Your kingdom
neh-weh ** be done
tsow-ya-nakh ** Your will
============================
ay-kan-na ** as
d'wash-may-ya ** in heaven
ap b'ar-aa ** so on earth.
11 ============================
haw lan ** give us
lakh-ma ** the bread
d'son-qa-nan ** of our need
yo-ma-na ** this day
12 ============================
ow'shwoq lan ** and forgive us
khow-beyn ** our offences
ay-kan-na d'ap kha-nan ** as also we
shwa-qan ** have forgiven
l'khay-ya-wen ** those who have offended us
13 ============================
ow'la ** and not
ta'-lan ** bring us
l'nis-you-na ** into trial
al-la pas-san ** but deliver us
min bee-sha ** from the evil one
============================
modt-dtil d'dee-lak ** for of yours
hee mal-koo-tha ** is the Kingdom
ow'khay-la ** and the power
ow'tish-bokh-tha ** and the glory
l'al-um ail-meen. ** age to age, or: world to world
What do you think is more poetic: the Lord's Prayer
a) in Greek, or
b) in the Mt 6 Aramaic?
Mt 6:10's "as" uses the letters "aikna," while Lk 11:2s "as" uses "aik." Also, Mt 6:11 uses "yomna"-- this day, daily-- while Lk 11:3 instead uses "klium"-- every day, daily. Hence, in at least 2 places, the Luke version means the same, but has less-perfect rhyming compared with the Matthew version. In my opinion, the prophet Jesus-- God incarnate-- gave a model prayer with superb rhyming recorded in the Aramaic Mt 6. The Lk 11 rendition means the same, but has less rhyming and fewer of the prophet Jesus' original words, besides lacking "for of yours is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, l'ailm-ailmin."
////////////////////////////////////////
*Greek mss. embarrassingly have Jesus liable to the fire of Gehenna.*
Compare Mt 5:22 and Mt 23:17 in the Greek.
Mt 5:22
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5.htm
3004 [e]
eipē
εἴπῃ ,
shall say
3474 [e]
Mōre
Μωρέ ,
Fool
Adj-VMS
1777 [e]
enochos
ἔνοχος
liable
1510 [e]
estai
ἔσται
will be
1519 [e]
eis
εἰς
to
3588 [e]
tēn
τὴν
the
1067 [e]
geennan
γέενναν
hell
3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
-
4442 [e]
pyros
πυρός .
of fire
Mt 23:17
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23.htm
3474 [e]
17 mōroi
17 μωροὶ
17 Foolish
17 Adj-VMP
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
5185 [e]
typhloi
τυφλοί !
blind
////////////////////////////////////////
More handouts: bottom of
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/podbayfm/listen_to_episodes_of_heal_the_sick_podcast_on_podbay/
Quote from: WhiteWings on January 21, 2019, 03:22:49 PM
Hell is an accurate translation as it also mean 'hidden'.
It's meaning that's given to the word that's what wrong.
So you think 'hell' is an accurate translation of Sheol and of Hades. Do you think 'hell' is an accurate translation of: Gehenna? Tartarus? Lake of Fire?
Another problem with the KJV is its 1John 5:7, which was added into some Greek 1John manuscripts over a thousand years after 1John was written. Do you think this belongs in printed copies of the NT?:
1 John 5:7 (NKJV) For there are three that bear witness [a]in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
Footnotes:
1 John 5:7 NU, M omit the words from in heaven (v. 7) through on earth (v. 8). Only 4 or 5 very late mss. contain these words in Greek.
Are you aware of any evidence or arguments to support 1John 5:7 as belonging in printed copies of the NT?
https://www.gotquestions.org/Comma-Johanneum.html
However, it is highly unlikely that the Comma Johanneum was originally a part of 1 John. None of the oldest Greek manuscripts of 1 John contain the comma, and none of the very early church fathers include it when quoting or referencing 1 John 5:7-8. The presence of the Comma Johanneum in Greek manuscripts is actually quite rare until the 15th century A.D. It is primarily found in Latin manuscripts. While some of the Latin manuscripts containing the Comma Johanneum are ancient, the Comma Johanneum did not appear in the original Latin Vulgate written by Jerome.
In the 16th century, when Desiderius Erasmus was compiling what became known as the Textus Receptus, he did not include the Comma Johanneum in the 1st or 2nd editions. Due to intense pressure from the Catholic Church and others who wanted it included because of its support for trinitarianism, Erasmus included the Comma Johanneum in later editions of the Textus Receptus. His decision resulted in the Comma Johanneum being included in the King James Version of the Bible and later in the New King James Version.
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/2649/what-is-the-argument-against-the-authenticity-of-1-john-57-8-in-the-kjv
This is a case where the argument for inauthenticity is quite clear. The Comma Johanneum does not appear in any ancient Greek sources (1 John, like all the other books of the New Testament, was written originally in Greek). The earliest Greek version of 1 John with the Comma Johanneum is from 1516! The extra line was added to some Latin manuscripts sometime between the 3rd and 6th century and was originally written in Latin. It is also not found in any ancient Syriac or Coptic texts, or the traditional texts of the Ethiopian church.
The reason it is sometimes included in modern bibles is that it was in the Vulgate and as a result in many early translations like the King James version. Nonetheless, it is not found even in the oldest texts of the Vulgate!
Unlike some more controversial textual questions, there seems not to be any major disagreement among scholars (including conservative scholars) about the inauthenticity of the Comma Johanneum. You can find a few defenses of authenticity, but it's a decidedly fringe position mostly held by people who are committed to the KJV-only movement.
To refresh on the details, I got most of this information from this article by Daniel Wallace, and a little of it from Wikipedia. But both of these sources agree with what I'd read about this topic elsewhere in the past.
posted at https://youtu.be/K0WpHwOeRiQ
"point me to the 'Aramaic' manuscripts of the NT"
The Assyrian Church of the East has been faithfully transmitting the Aramaic NT since the earliest days of Christianity, when they received the books from those who wrote them (exception: the 'Western Five'-- II Peter, II John, III John, Jude and Revelation; they closed their canon before receiving those).
I posted some arguments for Aramaic being the original within the thread
http://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/gehenna-and-sheol-in-the-aramaic-nt/
Older versions of many of the posts appeared earlier here, which has additional things I didn't post on the Tentmaker forum:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/SdGP_f82uUoJ
The Khabouris Codex is a medieval manuscript of the Aramaic. It can be examined at http://dukhrana.com/khabouris/
and info about it is at https://therefinersfire.org/khabouris_codex.htm
Tatian, who died in A.D. 180, composed the Diatesseron (a consolidation of the 4 Gospels) using the Aramaic. That was translated into Arabic, which we have today:
http://sepehr.mohamadi.name/?p=84
The Greek manuscripts have many variants. In many instances, the Aramaic and the Diatesseron agree as to what the original renditions of various Gospel passages were:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/iI-uGFZ9CjwJ
Biblical Archaeology: Factual Evidence to Support the Historicity of the Bible
https://www.equip.org/article/biblical-archaeology-factual-evidence-to-support-the-historicity-of-the-bible/
9 archaeology finds that confirm the New Testament
https://www.premierchristianity.com/Past-Issues/2017/March-2017/9-archaeology-finds-that-confirm-the-New-Testament
On http://csntm.org/Manuscripts.aspx
for the checkbox "Gospels", doing control-f/ "find" for "1st" yields 0 results. Searching for "2nd" yields 3 results having merely "2nd," and 3 results having "2nd-3rd century." The by-A.D. 175 Aramaic Diatesseron has 95% of the 4 Gospels-- compared with the website you mentioned having a tiny fraction of the Gospels:
Second century manuscript of the Gospels on papyrus; 1 fragment, single column, approximately 18 lines per column.
Second century manuscript of the Gospels on papyrus; 1 fragment, single column, approximately 31 lines per column.
Second century manuscript of the Gospels on papyrus; 1 fragment, single column, 23–24 lines per column.
Late second or early third century manuscript of the Gospels on papyrus; 1 leaf, single column, 10–11 lines per column.
Second or third century manuscript of the Gospels on papyrus; 1 fragment, single column, 13 lines per column.
Second or third century manuscript of the Gospels on papyrus; 1 fragment, single column, approximately 19–20 lines per column.
"Considering you can't give me even one in Aramaic is entirely the point"
Have your fragments helped determine which of the numerous variants existed in Greek mss. early on?
I have quoted over 200 textual variants in the 4 Gospels, located at the places mentioned below-- see the link.
Aramaic Peshi tta New Testament, Often Bolstered by the Diatesseron, Adjudicating Between Conflicting Greek Manuscripts
The Greek manuscripts have many variants. In many instances, the Aramaic and the by-A.D. 175 Diatesseron agree as to what the original renditions of various Gospel passages were:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/iI-uGFZ9CjwJ
*Book of Matthew*
Matthew 1:25, 2:18, 3:16, 4:10, 5:22, 5:25, 5:44, 5:47, 6:1, 6:4, 6:6, 6:13, 6:15, 6:18, 6:33, 8:18, 11:15, 11:23, 12:22, 12:47, 13:43, 13:51, 14:24, 14:30, 14:33, 15:8, 15:14, 15:27, 16:2-4, 16:13, 18:11, 18:15, 18:19, 18:29, 18:35, 19:17, 19:20, 20:6-7, 20:16, 21:12, 21:28-32, 21:44, 22:7, 22:13, 22:44, 23:3, 23:4-5, 23:8, 23:14, 23:19, 23:25, 23:26, 24:42-43, 24:48, 25:6, 25:13-14, 25:31, 26:3, 26:28, 26:42, 27:16-17, 27:24, 27:41-42, 27:64, 28:2, 28:9, 28:17, 28:20
*Book of Mark*
Mark 3:14-16, 3:29, 6:33, 6:36, 7:2, 7:4-5, 7:8-9, 7:19, 7:24, 8:26, 9:23, 9:49, 10:21, 10:24, 12:4, 12:29-30, 12:33, 13:33, 14:19, 14:68, 15:28, 16:9-20
*Book of Luke*
Luke 1:28, 1:29, 2:14, 2:33, 2:38, 2:40, 2:43, 3:19, 3:22, 4:44, 6:10, 8:45, 8:48, 9:23, 9:54-56, 10:1, 10:21-22, 10:38, 10:39-41, 10:42, 11:11, 11:53-54, 13:2, 14:5, 15:16, 16:9, 17:3, 17:9, 17:33, 17:36, 20:13, 20:30, 21:19, 21:36, 22:31, 22:43-44, 23:6, 23:23, 23:34, 23:42, 24:17, 24:42, 24:46, 24:49, 24:51, 24:53
*Book of John*
John 1:18, 1:27, 1:34, 1:42, 3:13, 3:15, 3:25, 3:34, 4:1, 4:9, 4:42, 1:18, 5:2, 5:3-4, 5:16, 5:44, 6:22, 6:36, 6:47, 6:58, 6:64, 6:69, 6:71, 7:8, 7:26, 7:37, 7:39, 7:46, 7:50, 7:53-8:11, 8:16, 8:38, 8:54, 8:57, 8:59, 9:4, 9:9, 9:11, 9:35, 10:8, 10:26, 10:29, 10:34, 10:38, 11:25, 11:41, 11:49-50, 12:1, 12:28, 12:47, 13:10, 13:18, 13:26, 13:32, 14:4, 14:7, 14:11, 14:14, 14:15, 14:28, 15:7, 16:3, 16:4, 16:16, 16:18, 16:27, 17:21, 18:20, 19:16, 19:28, 20:31, 21:3, 21:15-17
"Jesus disciple NEVER talked in Aramaic"
Acts 1 The Passion Translation (TPT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+1&version=TPT
18 He [Judas] earned the wages of his sin, for he fell headfirst, and his belly split open, spilling his intestines on the ground. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem knows what happened to him. That's why the field where he died is called in Aramaic^x 'Haqel Dama,' that is, 'The Bloody Field.'
x: Acts 1:19 Or "in the language of the region." The Greek text is clear that the Jews of Jesus' day spoke Aramaic, the language that Jesus and his apostles taught in. The Greek text transliterates the name of the field into a Greek equivalent for a Greek audience.
Mark 5:41 (TPT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+5%3A41&version=TPT
41 He tenderly clasped the child's hand in his and said to her in Aramaic, "Talitha koum,"^a which means, "Little girl,^b wake up from the sleep of death."
Footnotes:
Mark 5:41 One of the many references in the New Testament proving that the language of Jesus was Aramaic.
Mark 5:41 The Aramaic word talitha can also mean "little lamb." ....
"Paul wrote roughly 1/3rd part of NT and he NEVER talked in Aramaic"
1 Corinthians 16:22 (TPT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+16%3A22+&version=TPT
If anyone doesn't sincerely love the Lord, he deserves to be doomed as an outcast.^a Our Lord has come!^b
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 16:22 Or "accursed."
1 Corinthians 16:22 Or "Maranatha!" This is an Aramaic word that can be translated in two ways, "Come, our Lord" or "Our Lord has come."
Quote from: DavidFord on January 21, 2019, 03:04:40 PM
The NT was originally in Aramaic, not Greek. Translations by Etheridge, Magiera, Bauscher, and Holman of the NT from the Aramaic lack 'hell':
Etheridge - use the Peshi++a Tool http://dukhrana.com/
http://www.lulu.com search for Ewan Macleod's Etheridge translation of the Aramaic
Magiera http://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/english-word-search
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=janet+magiera&ref=nb_sb_noss_1
Bauscher - Aramaic Bible in Plain English https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/
https://www.lulu.com/shop/rev-david-bauscher/the-original-aramaic-new-testament-in-plain-english-with-psalms-proverbs-8th-edition-with-notes/hardcover/product-21273790.html
Biblia Peshi++a (Nuevo Testamento) https://www.bibliatodo.com/la-biblia/ --in the "Solo Nuevo Testamento" category, select "Biblia Peshi++a (Nuevo Testamento)"
The Greek word ainon means 'age/world,' and is often mistranslated as 'eternal.' Young's Literal Translation (YLT) of the Greek translation has renderings of 'age' and 'age-during':
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=YLT&quicksearch=age&begin=47&end=73&limit=500
It also lacks 'hell,' and instead has 'hades' and 'gehenna' and 'Tartarus':
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=hades&qs_version=YLT
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=gehenna&qs_version=YLT
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=tartarus&qs_version=YLT
For the OT, it has 'sheol':
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=sheol&qs_version=YLT
Hi David, can you inform me where you get the conviction that the entire New Testament was originally written in Aramaic as I believe to say that with certainty is flawed.
Thank you.
I have to think letters written to gentile churches would have been in Greek.. for the definition of Hades (originally the word was not seen) I really on the earliest or original meaning of sheol, to me originally, a place where there was neither thought nor doing..
Many believe believers are conscious during death before resurrection, which I don't know :dontknow: and to me doesn't matter, but Hades for the unsaved; Hades as a place of the dead other than the grave, I can't easily believe as that implies natural, inherent immortality.
But very valuable, I think to trace the 'evolution' of sheol, from it's original biblical meaning to the Jewish myth sheol in the Talmud, which was like the world's view.
Just :2c: :gsmile:
the 'dead' are conscious of nothing at all..remove the 'spirit'of life from our bodies..and it dissolves..does not move,recieve impulse etc.
=without life..There is 'nothing' but God.But,if the same spirit in you[life] be the same spirit that be in Christ,,it will 'quicken'your
mortal body..cause it to put on incorruption and immortality[change it into another form/spirit] then that spirit will return untoGod
and the 'former'corrupt/mortal dust body..return unto the dust.
""
He pours out His spirit on ALL flesh..on every man's last day. When God said'Let us make man in our image and likeness....".
incorruption and immortality..eternallife..is that image and likeness..and when we see Him face to face..we shall be just like Him.
so..'hell'is the grave...the unseen by those who judge by the appearance of the eyes...[hid in Christ]
Enoch was no more because God took him..but he did not see death............
if you were here Lord,Lazarus would not have died......
sometimes[parable of the ten virgins]..virgins fall asleep spiritually..though they may be alive[carnal] in the flesh....and lacking
sufficient 'oil/spiritual light" when they return and find the bridegroom and the virgins have already met...remain in darkness........about
those who have died in the flesh[put off earthly garments ]to dwell eternally with the Lord in spirit.......
each in his order...and those that remain..when their light[oil] comes..find He comes with all those who had preceded them in death.
in the last days..I will pour out My spirit[oil]on all flesh.... :2c:
continual sowing and reaping since Abel..although men have been in darkness about it.Jesus is the resurrection and
before the founding of the world..He was. Jesus as the High Priest offers daily sacrifices unto God..our spirits returned unto God
the Father...and raises us UP into an eternal spiritual temple[body] one with the Father and Lamb.
Quote from: inspirationmoment101 on February 05, 2019, 12:55:34 PMcan you inform me where you get the conviction that the entire New Testament was originally written in Aramaic as I believe to say that with certainty is flawed
Mistranslations-- several of which are discussed above-- are strong evidence that the Greek NT mss. have a translation from Aramaic. There are many Semitic figures of speech throughout the NT, e.g. discussion of faces, kidneys, bowels, and hearts, that are alien to the Greek mind. The Aramaic has neat features not present in the Greek mss., e.g. Mt's Lord's Prayer has much rhyming in Aramaic, there's an instance of Janus parallelism, and the Aramaic equivalent of 'Master YHWH' is retained (whereas the Greek mss. render all 'lord's-- even 'sir's-- as 'kurios.') Plus the Greek mss. for John prominently contain a particular Semitic linguistic construction, the Greek grammar for Revelation is atrociously bad, etc. I discussed much of this in
http://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/gehenna-and-sheol-in-the-aramaic-nt/
and earlier in
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/SdGP_f82uUoJ
Quote from: DavidFord on February 09, 2019, 06:27:18 AM
Quote from: inspirationmoment101 on February 05, 2019, 12:55:34 PMcan you inform me where you get the conviction that the entire New Testament was originally written in Aramaic as I believe to say that with certainty is flawed
Mistranslations-- several of which are discussed above-- are strong evidence that the Greek NT mss. have a translation from Aramaic. There are many Semitic figures of speech throughout the NT, e.g. discussion of faces, kidneys, bowels, and hearts, that are alien to the Greek mind. The Aramaic has neat features not present in the Greek mss., e.g. Mt's Lord's Prayer has much rhyming in Aramaic, there's an instance of Janus parallelism, and the Aramaic equivalent of 'Master YHWH' is retained (whereas the Greek mss. render all 'lord's-- even 'sir's-- as 'kurios.') Plus the Greek mss. for John prominently contain a particular Semitic linguistic construction, the Greek grammar for Revelation is atrociously bad, etc. I discussed much of this in
http://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/gehenna-and-sheol-in-the-aramaic-nt/
and earlier in
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/SdGP_f82uUoJ
It makes sense to me (1) Jesus would have spoken Aramaic to Israel. And (2) that letters written to predominantly Israeli churches would likely too have been written in the Aramaic. As Paul, when he was being arrested in Jerusalem (Acts 21) "spoke to the crowd in Aramaic" (vs 40). Which is pretty current with the writing of his letters.
But letters to predominantly gentile believers, I have to think were likely written in the Greek.. Likely made up of both gentile and Judean? With some seeming very much addressed to gentile believers.. And how Paul called himself the apostle to the gentiles..
And John was to send the letters to the churches with the book of revelation, to churches of Asia..
Quote from: marie glen on February 09, 2019, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: DavidFord on February 09, 2019, 06:27:18 AM
Quote from: inspirationmoment101 on February 05, 2019, 12:55:34 PMcan you inform me where you get the conviction that the entire New Testament was originally written in Aramaic as I believe to say that with certainty is flawed
Mistranslations-- several of which are discussed above-- are strong evidence that the Greek NT mss. have a translation from Aramaic. There are many Semitic figures of speech throughout the NT, e.g. discussion of faces, kidneys, bowels, and hearts, that are alien to the Greek mind. The Aramaic has neat features not present in the Greek mss., e.g. Mt's Lord's Prayer has much rhyming in Aramaic, there's an instance of Janus parallelism, and the Aramaic equivalent of 'Master YHWH' is retained (whereas the Greek mss. render all 'lord's-- even 'sir's-- as 'kurios.') Plus the Greek mss. for John prominently contain a particular Semitic linguistic construction, the Greek grammar for Revelation is atrociously bad, etc. I discussed much of this in
http://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/gehenna-and-sheol-in-the-aramaic-nt/
and earlier in
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/SdGP_f82uUoJ
It makes sense to me (1) Jesus would have spoken Aramaic to Israel. And (2) that letters written to predominantly Israeli churches would likely too have been written in the Aramaic. As Paul, when he was being arrested in Jerusalem (Acts 21) "spoke to the crowd in Aramaic" (vs 40). Which is pretty current with the writing of his letters.
But letters to predominantly gentile believers, I have to think were likely written in the Greek.. Likely made up of both gentile and Judean? With some seeming very much addressed to gentile believers.. And how Paul called himself the apostle to the gentiles..
And John was to send the letters to the churches with the book of revelation, to churches of Asia..
That's pretty much what I believe. I don't think the entire NT was originally Aramaic...Could have been though, but to say with certainty I couldn't.
Quote from: marie glen on February 09, 2019, 10:33:21 PM
It makes sense to me (1) Jesus would have spoken Aramaic to Israel. And (2) that letters written to predominantly Israeli churches would likely too have been written in the Aramaic. As Paul, when he was being arrested in Jerusalem (Acts 21) "spoke to the crowd in Aramaic" (vs 40). Which is pretty current with the writing of his letters.
But letters to predominantly gentile believers, I have to think were likely written in the Greek.. Likely made up of both gentile and Judean? With some seeming very much addressed to gentile believers.. And how Paul called himself the apostle to the gentiles..
And John was to send the letters to the churches with the book of revelation, to churches of Asia..
"letters to predominantly gentile believers, I have to think were likely written in the Greek.. Likely made up of both gentile and Judean? With some seeming very much addressed to gentile believers"
What grounds are there for thinking that some of Paul's letters were written "to predominantly gentile believers"-- and which letters?
Revelation was originally written in Aramaic, and got translated-- badly-- into Greek.
Do you think Revelation was originally composed in: Greek? Aramaic? Hebrew?
Christopher Lancaster aka "Raphael Lataster," _Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek? A Concise Compendium of the Many Internal and External Evidences of Aramaic Peshi tta Primacy_ (2011), 328pp., 138-139. Lataster PDF:
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/pdf/2006_lataster_NT_writteningreek.pdf
In addition to the evidence for Semitic grammar embedded in the Greek New Testament, the fact that serious grammatical errors are found in the Greek New Testament books should also be revealed. Speaking of the Greek of Revelation, Charles Cutler Torrey states that it "...swarms with major offenses against Greek grammar." He calls it "linguistic anarchy", and says, "The grammatical monstrosities of the book, in their number and variety and especially in their startling character, stand alone in the history of literature." Torrey gives ten examples listed below:
1. Rev. 1:4 "Grace to you, and peace, from he who is and who was and who is to come." (all nom. case)
2. Rev. 1:15 "His legs were like burnished brass (neutral gender dative case), as in a furnace purified" (Fem. gender sing. no., gen. case)
3. Rev. 11:3 "My witness (nom.) shall prophesy for many days clothed (accus.) in sackcloth."
4. Rev. 14:14 "I saw on the cloud, one seated like unto a Son of Man (accus.) having
(nom.) upon his head a golden crown."
5. Rev. 14:19 "He harvested the vintage of the earth, and cast it into the winepress
(fem), the great (masc.) of the wrath of God."
6. Rev. 17:4 "A golden cup filled with abominations (gen.) and with unclean things" (accus.)
7. Rev. 19:20 "The lake of blazing (fem.) fire (neutral)."
8. Rev. 20:2 "And he seized the dragon (accus.), the old serpent (nom.), who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him."
9. Rev. 21:9 "Seven angels holding seven bowls (accus.), filled (gen.) with the seven last plagues."
10. Rev. 22:5 "They have no need of lamplight (gen.) nor of sunlight (accus.).
David Robert Palmer, The Revelation of John, part of The Holy Bible, The Ancient Greek Text, alternating verse by verse with A new English translation from the Greek, with translator's footnotes and Greek textual variant footnotes (May 2017)
http://bibletranslation.ws/palmer-translation/
PDF:
http://www.bibletranslation.ws/trans/revwgrk.pdf
170 10:1b The Greek word here, πους, is the word for feet, but in ancient Greek and many other
languages the words for foot or for hand (χειρ) can mean the whole extremity or whole limb.
That is especially true in Revelation, which displays much Aramaic influence. It is far more
appropriate here to speak of a leg being like a column or pillar than a foot being like a column
or pillar.
....
246 13:16b .... An Aramaism is an unusual and rare occurrence, and I think the burden of proof that it is occurring, is on the one saying it is. That said, I have come to believe that Revelation does
show an Aramaic mind in its author. For example, though even ancient Greek the words for
foot πούς and hand χείρ originally meant the whole limb, not just the foot and hand, this is
most definitely always true in Hebrew and Aramaic. The author of Revelation uses πούς,
"foot" to mean the whole limb, where he says the feet of the angel were like "columns" of fire
Legs are like columns, and feet are not. Therefore similarly, we must conclude that in
Revelation 13:16, with χείρ the author means anywhere on the entire upper right limb, not
just the hand.
Revelation 1:13 (The Passion Translation)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+1&version=TPT
And walking among the lampstands, I saw someone like a son of man, wearing a full-length robe with a golden sash over his chest.[aj]
The Greek word used here is mastos and is used exclusively for a woman's breasts.
3149. μαστός (mastos)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_3149.htm
Strong's Greek: 3149. μαστός (mastos) — 3 Occurrences
Luke 11:27 N-NMP
GRK: σε καὶ μαστοὶ οὓς ἐθήλασας
NAS: that bore You and the breasts at which
KJV: and the paps which
INT: you and [the] breasts at which you nursed
Luke 23:29 N-NMP
GRK: ἐγέννησαν καὶ μαστοὶ οἳ οὐκ
NAS: bore, and the breasts that never
KJV: bare, and the paps which never
INT: did bear and breasts which never
Revelation 1:13 N-DMP
GRK: πρὸς τοῖς μαστοῖς ζώνην χρυσᾶν
NAS: across His chest with a golden
KJV: about the paps with a golden
INT: at the breasts a belt golden
4738. στῆθος (stéthos)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4738.htm
Strong's Greek: 4738. στῆθος (stéthos) — 5 Occurrences
Luke 18:13 N-ANS
GRK: ἔτυπτεν τὸ στῆθος αὐτοῦ λέγων
NAS: but was beating his breast, saying,
KJV: upon his breast, saying, God
INT: was striking the breast of himself saying
Luke 23:48 N-ANP
GRK: τύπτοντες τὰ στήθη ὑπέστρεφον
NAS: beating their breasts.
KJV: smote their breasts, and returned.
INT: beating the breasts returned [home]
John 13:25 N-ANS
GRK: ἐπὶ τὸ στῆθος τοῦ Ἰησοῦ
NAS: on Jesus' bosom, said
KJV: lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him,
INT: on the breast of Jesus
John 21:20 N-ANS
GRK: ἐπὶ τὸ στῆθος αὐτοῦ καὶ
NAS: had leaned back on His bosom at the supper
KJV: on his breast at supper,
INT: on the bosom of him and
Revelation 15:6 N-ANP
GRK: περὶ τὰ στήθη ζώνας χρυσᾶς
NAS: around their chests with golden
KJV: and having their breasts girded
INT: about the breasts sashes golden
David Robert Palmer, The Revelation of John, part of The Holy Bible, The Ancient Greek Text, alternating verse by verse with A new English translation from the Greek, with translator's footnotes and Greek textual variant footnotes (May 2017)
http://bibletranslation.ws/palmer-translation/
PDF:
http://www.bibletranslation.ws/trans/revwgrk.pdf
28 1:13f Literally, "breasts," μαστοῖς but that would be very unidiomatic for English, and it
essentially means chest, as in 15:6, where the seven angels also have a golden sash around
their chest, and there the Greek word used is στῆθος, "chest." But I didn't want to translate
μαστοῖς as a singular word like chest, when the Greek is plural, so I used "pecs" which is short
for pectorals.
_The Restored New Testament: A New Translation with Commentary, Including the Gnostic Gospels Thomas, Mary, and Judas_ (2009) by Willis Barnstone, 1485pp., on 1236
https://www.amazon.com/Restored-New-Testament-Translation-Commentary/dp/039306493X/
14. Although the Greek _mastois_ means "breasts," it is commonly translated as "chest" or "waist" or sometimes the singular form "breast."
Especially-interesting instances of MrYa = Master YHWH in the Aramaic New Testament
Verses from https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/scripture-reference-search
Mat 22:45 (APNT) Therefore, if David called him 'LORD,' how is he his son?"
Luk 2:11 For today the deliverer, who is the LORD the Messiah, is born to you in the city of David.
Act 2:36 Therefore, all the house of Israel should truly know that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, LORD and Christ."
Act 2:38 Simon said to them, "Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of the LORD Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, so that you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:9 Because of this, Christ also died and is alive and is risen that he would be the LORD for the dead and for the living.
Rom 14:14 For I know and am persuaded in the LORD Jesus that there is not anything that is defiled of itself. But to him who thinks that something is unclean, to him alone it is unclean.
1Co 8:6 but to us ourselves, [there] is one God, the Father, from whom [are] all [things] and by whom we are, and one LORD, Jesus Christ, by way of him [are] all [things] and we are also by way of him.
1Co 11:27 Therefore, whoever eats of the bread of the LORD and drinks from his cup and is not worthy, he is indebted to the blood of the LORD and to his body.
1Co 12:3 Because of this, I make known to you that there is no one who speaks by the Spirit of God and says that Jesus is cursed. And neither is anyone able to say that Jesus is LORD, except by the Holy Spirit.
Phi 2:11 and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is the LORD, to the glory of God his Father.
Col 3:24 And know that from our Lord you will receive a reward in the inheritance, for you serve the LORD the Messiah.
Rev 1:8 "I am Aleph and Tau," says the LORD God, "He who is and was and comes, who is the Almighty."
Rev 22:20 He said, testifying these [things], "Yes, I am coming soon." Come, LORD Jesus.
hat tip:
https://torahinkingdom.com/yhwh-new-testament/
Hi David,1 Cor11;27that one can be tricky..since He chose the foolish and despised..and the prodigal son come home..proclaiming
I AM UNWORTHY....I don't think we 'earn"love"..it just is..and freeley forgives 'debts/trespasses"I also find it'odd' those
proclaiming LORD,LORD...then lists the'works'and He denies knowing them..indebted to Him because they didn't give food/water
etc..to fellow members o f His body[maybe they thought these fellow body members were unworthy/despised/fools..etc?
I would love to hear others input regarding this...... :girlheart:
:2c:remember some'christian' writers awhile back..saying blacks were cursed..surely that was a debt against His body...
and the elder sons poor attitude when the despised,unworthy brother returned[where was the natural Love for both his Father and
brother?]It is often tied up with physical affliction/sickness..this not discerning the body.... :girlheart:
Quote from: sheila on February 20, 2019, 09:55:19 PMwhen the despised, unworthy brother returned
The prodigal returned. In the end, all of us will have returned.
Another: "we have a choice and the Bible does not tell that all creation will choose Jesus"
1Co 12:3 Because of this, I make known to you that there is no one who speaks by the Spirit of God and says that Jesus is cursed. And neither is anyone able to say that Jesus is LORD, except by the Holy Spirit.
Phi 2:11 and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is the LORD, to the glory of God his Father.
-Verses from https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/scripture-reference-search
The NT was originally in Aramaic, and it has "MrYa" = "Master YHWH" in many places (e.g. the 2 verses above), which the Greek translation rendered as merely 'kurius'/lord, even as the Greek translation rendered 'sir' as 'lord.'
God is so brilliant that he can give free will to people and to angels, they rebel, and in the end, all the people (and the angels?) willingly return to God. Jesus preached in hell once, and I'm sure he cleared the place out. Perhaps Jesus-- who has the keys to hell-- will preach there once again.
Quote from: DavidFord on February 20, 2019, 10:18:19 PM
Quote from: sheila on February 20, 2019, 09:55:19 PM
when the despised, unworthy brother returned
The prodigal returned. In the end, all of us will have returned.
:thumbsup: :cloud9: Like Nebuchadnezzar? After 7 times, (6000 years plus the millennium) humanity comes to its senses (during collective 'day' of Judgment/discernment?)
P.S. I'm interested in the Berean Study Bible.. But I have to read more of their verses first, controversial ones. It's one of the versions on biblehub.com
I just as soon have a bible that doesn't say hell.. not saying forever would be good too.. That's basically my only beef with the translations. But the more Hebrew and Aramaic - and I've no doubt the very first Christians, who were Judean, very much had an Aramaic bent - the better. Whether they wrote in Greek to gentile churches, like in Corinth, or those of Asia.. :dontknow: I'm sure God Almighty is able to communicate His Word in every language.. But the Aramaic leaning seems the most genuine to me, personally. But I read a lot of versions, including the most modern ones.
Aramaic leaning verse translations are very interesting, thanks for posting them! :Peace2:
An additional mistranslation.
Jn 15, based on Paul Younan's translation of the original Aramaic, http://dukhrana.com
21. But they will do all these things to you because of my name,
for they do not know He who sent me.
22. If I had not come (and) spoken to them,
they would have no sin,
but now they have no holocaust upon the face of their sin.
[Aramaic idiomatic construct meaning 'now their sin is left uncovered.' The Aramaic word Alatha (offering, sacrifice, holocaust, and oblation) has been confused in the Greek translations with the Aramaic word Altha (excuse, pretext). Jesus meant 'their sin is left uncovered' and not, as the Western versions read, 'their sin is without excuse.' There never is an excuse for sin. -- based on PY]
"talk about anything other than KJV is no good" IMO, such talk is silliness. "peoples POV on bible versions" The version you read regularly is the best.
The Masoretic has problems. Amazingly, in several instances the LXX i.e. Septuagint (Hebrew into Greek into English) is superior to the much-younger Masoretic (Hebrew into English). The New Testament was originally in Aramaic, not Greek, and correctly translating from Aramaic into English removes several mistranslations and corruptions present in the 'Aramaic into Greek into English' editions that so common these days.
3rd post down
Mistranslations in Your New Testament Translated From Greek, Which Was Translated From the Original Aramaic
https://tentmaker.org/forum/judgement-and-punishment/translations-without-'hell'-accurate-translations/
There are scattered discussions of instances of LXX and Samaritan Pentateuch and Peshi tta Tanakh and Dead Sea Scrolls vs. the Masoretic in the Aramaic Primacy Forum at
peshi tta.org
specifically in its thread "book of Hebrews: better from Greek, or Aramaic?"
Tried that link David. Didnt work for me. Is it possible a letter missing or something?
Quote from: eaglesway on April 23, 2019, 11:08:28 AM
Tried that link David. Didnt work for me. Is it possible a letter missing or something?
The forum software's bowdlerizing feature interfered. Try typing in peshi tta.org
A copyist's comment somehow got added into the text in Rev 20:5.
Revelation 20 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English, using Crawford manuscript), https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/revelation/20.htm
4 And I saw seats, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and these souls who were cut off for the testimony of Yeshua and for the word of God, and because they did not worship The Beast, neither its Image, nor received a mark between their eyes or on their hands, they lived and reigned with The Messiah for one thousand years; 5 And this is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he, whoever has part in the first resurrection, and the second death has no authority over these, but they shall be Priests of God and of The Messiah, and they shall reign with him one thousand years.
Yes David , this add on I see this in some translations in parenthesis ,
(But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.)
In the aramaic in plain english , it just says, And this is the first resurrection
Do you think this changes the meaning/ message ?
I can only see two ways we can be dead and yet still alive mortally
and that is dead in sin [ a moral condition and called blindness or darkness ] wordly view
or dead in Christ [ seeing Jesus in the light ] spiritually given as new life breathed into us and as one dead to the world , we are to overcome the world by being morally dead to its desires and passions
If we are spiritually dead by the law of sin, than we are being convicted by the Holy Spirit , it done its work in us .
and now we are waiting on the Lord to be raised to new life in Christ as born again = the first resurrection and a different Spirit leading us called the Holy One .
He raises the dead by the Holy Spirit quickening our ''mortal bodies '' to His own body by the Life in the Spirit , God the Father raised His , being in Christ body and covered by His authority .
The Revelation book will make no logical sense if we cannot see past the same vale= a valley (used in place names or as a poetic term) or veil The veil came to symbolize modesty and obedience. In many religions it is seen as a symbol of reverence for women to cover their heads. with the mind of Christ obedience as comparing us to the ten virgins wise and foolish with Holy Spirit oil or lacking it by not asking the Father for it . but buying from the marketplace [doctrines of devilish , rebellious spirits ]
Same problem the children of Israel encountered , still bound up under the law of sin = death by rebellion [looking though a glass darkly ] ,not obedience to the Fathers desire , though His perfect obedience Son, the Lord Jesus Christ . the lamb and Light of the whole world .
John 1 9The TRUE Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.... cannot see and still spiritually blind , wrong spirit ruling .
because they are blind still without the Holy Spirit oil to teach them and guide them and lead them to CHRIST as Paul states
being born again by the Holy Spirit as Jesus states also ......
Jesus goes on to say to the religious leaders , if you were blind you would have no sin , but since you say you see, your sin remains , so it is what we say and do not do [obey] that stumbles us all and keeps us under the law of sin and death
and showing us the great need for forgiveness of sin and the mercy of God for all mankind . not just the few . being my opinion , or as I believe now .
what do you make of Rev 6 as the seals are opened ?
the same symbolism here found in Jeremiah 14 of the four sore plagues , this is making the Words of Jesus Christ the Spirit of prophecy true in Matt 23 , you will not see ME , than you will say , blessed is He whom comes in the name of the Lord ...
And I saw a pale horse, and the name of him who sat upon it was Death, and Sheol joined him and authority was given to him over a fourth of The Earth to kill with the sword, with starvation, with Death, and by the animals of The Earth
I personally see the book of Revelation as the keys to the Kingdom that unlocks many of the testimonies and witnesses of all the prophets , the whole book of revelation/ revealing the Light so we can SEE Jesus Christ in the Spirit of truth and it is the Lords day being the works the Father sent Him to complete /finnish and John was in the Spirit when writing this all down for us to study with the help of the Holy Spirit teaching and guiding us to learn of Him ..
To help us all understand what is going on and things to come still , by being the Spirit of prophecy , Paul desired all to have working in them as keeping a hope of glory alive ..
Quote from: rosered on April 29, 2019, 12:56:13 PM
this add on I see this in some translations in parenthesis ,
(But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.)
In the aramaic in plain english , it just says, And this is the first resurrection
Do you think this changes the meaning/ message ?
Apparently many have speculated on the basis of a phrase that's not even part of the original Revelation:
_The Millennium: Past, Present Or Future? A Biblical Defense for the 40 Year Transition Period_ by Joseph Vincent (2012), 227pp., 159
https://www.amazon.com/Millennium-Present-Biblical-Defense-Transition/dp/1937501086/
Yet, even with so much controversy surrounding this questionable passage ["(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended)"] many commentators have quoted it for years as a basis for many end times religious doctrines and schemes.
Quotewhat do you make of Rev 6 as the seals are opened ? ....
And I saw a pale horse, and the name of him who sat upon it was Death, and Sheol joined him and authority was given to him over a fourth of The Earth to kill with the sword, with starvation, with Death, and by the animals of The Earth
I dunno. Here's what someone else thinks:
A Preterist Commentary on Revelation 6: Summary and Highlights
https://revelationrevolution.org/revelation-6-a-preterist-commentary/
Who are the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse? And what were the seven seals? In the following preterist Bible commentary on Revelation 6 the reader will be exposed to answers to these questions in addition to compelling evidence that every verse in this chapter came to pass during the Jewish War in the first century.
I believe the four horsemen of the apocalypse have human counterparts in the four kings that supplied auxiliary troops during the siege of Jerusalem. I believe the four horsemen of the apocalypse are Antiochus, Agrippa II, Sohemus and Malchus.1 The Midrash says that Vespasian had four generals with him during the Roman assault on Israel. It is also possible that these four horsemen are these four generals? Regardless of whether they were four generals or four client kings, these four horsemen did indeed conquer as predicted in Revelation 6:2; "take peace from the earth" according to Revelation 6:4; induce famine as implied in Revelation 6:6; and "kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth" when these four kings led their armies in the war on Palestine climaxing in the siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. As a result of this allied assault, Jerusalem was conquered and thousands of Israelites were killed by "sword, famine and plague." 97,000 Jews were exiled2 many of whom were killed in Roman amphitheaters "by sword and wild beasts."3
In A.D. 69, a year before the fall of Jerusalem, an omen of the coming tragedy was seen in the sky–the sun darkened, the moon turned blood red and a star fell in fulfillment of Revelation 6:12-13: "There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to the earth." The earthquake mentioned in v. 12 may refer to the earthquake that hit Jerusalem the year before, in A.D. 68.
Amidst the fall of Jerusalem, many people fled to caves under the city or to the mountains and caves of the Dead Sea as predicted in Revelation 6:15: then the people "hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains." The last pocket of resistance held out at the mountain fortress of Masada. Realizing that they could not overcome the Romans, 960 Jews took their lives. In this mass suicide, one can see the eerie fulfillment of Revelation 6:16-17: "They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"
yes David ,
I have a completely different view of the millennium or 1000 yr reign of Christ . or DAY of the LORD
and entering the rest spoken of in the bible from the beginning.
the total of 930 years , that being all in Adam as dead and the 70 years of bondage to Babylon =1000 years
or the rest from our labours and the works of Holy Spirit , being the Father & Son and all the hosts conclude
we are entering that rest in Hebrews when we believe the HEAVENLY FATHER [GOD ] IS DOING IT ALL from the beginning
the plan of all the ages surmised by faith .......suppose that something is true without having evidence to confirm it.
no one has to agree with me though , I am fine with waiting on the Lord , it does not prove anything , knowledge of Gods love will be the end all , faith , hope and love are the pure works of the Holy Spirit in my own opinion ..
Reference that the Assyrian Church of the East-- the keeper of the Peshi tta OT (a translation into Aramaic from Hebrew) and the Peshi tta NT (the original Aramaic)-- split from the Catholic Church in A.D. 1054?
A "Catholic Bible" lacks books present in the Peshi tta OT, and thus, isn't "a complete Bible."
https://www.gorgiaspress.com/a-facsimile-edition-of-the-peshi tto-old-testament-based-on-codex-ambrosianus-7a1
Quote from: DavidFord on May 04, 2019, 02:42:42 PM
Quote from: rosered on April 29, 2019, 12:56:13 PM
this add on I see this in some translations in parenthesis ,
(But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.)
In the aramaic in plain english , it just says, And this is the first resurrection
Do you think this changes the meaning/ message ?
Apparently many have speculated on the basis of a phrase that's not even part of the original Revelation:
_The Millennium: Past, Present Or Future? A Biblical Defense for the 40 Year Transition Period_ by Joseph Vincent (2012), 227pp., 159
https://www.amazon.com/Millennium-Present-Biblical-Defense-Transition/dp/1937501086/
Yet, even with so much controversy surrounding this questionable passage ["(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended)"] many commentators have quoted it for years as a basis for many end times religious doctrines and schemes.
Quotewhat do you make of Rev 6 as the seals are opened ? ....
And I saw a pale horse, and the name of him who sat upon it was Death, and Sheol joined him and authority was given to him over a fourth of The Earth to kill with the sword, with starvation, with Death, and by the animals of The Earth
I dunno. Here's what someone else thinks:
A Preterist Commentary on Revelation 6: Summary and Highlights
https://revelationrevolution.org/revelation-6-a-preterist-commentary/
Who are the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse? And what were the seven seals? In the following preterist Bible commentary on Revelation 6 the reader will be exposed to answers to these questions in addition to compelling evidence that every verse in this chapter came to pass during the Jewish War in the first century.
I believe the four horsemen of the apocalypse have human counterparts in the four kings that supplied auxiliary troops during the siege of Jerusalem. I believe the four horsemen of the apocalypse are Antiochus, Agrippa II, Sohemus and Malchus.1 The Midrash says that Vespasian had four generals with him during the Roman assault on Israel. It is also possible that these four horsemen are these four generals? Regardless of whether they were four generals or four client kings, these four horsemen did indeed conquer as predicted in Revelation 6:2; “take peace from the earth” according to Revelation 6:4; induce famine as implied in Revelation 6:6; and “kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth” when these four kings led their armies in the war on Palestine climaxing in the siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. As a result of this allied assault, Jerusalem was conquered and thousands of Israelites were killed by “sword, famine and plague.” 97,000 Jews were exiled2 many of whom were killed in Roman amphitheaters “by sword and wild beasts.”3
In A.D. 69, a year before the fall of Jerusalem, an omen of the coming tragedy was seen in the sky–the sun darkened, the moon turned blood red and a star fell in fulfillment of Revelation 6:12-13: “There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to the earth.” The earthquake mentioned in v. 12 may refer to the earthquake that hit Jerusalem the year before, in A.D. 68.
Amidst the fall of Jerusalem, many people fled to caves under the city or to the mountains and caves of the Dead Sea as predicted in Revelation 6:15: then the people “hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains.” The last pocket of resistance held out at the mountain fortress of Masada. Realizing that they could not overcome the Romans, 960 Jews took their lives. In this mass suicide, one can see the eerie fulfillment of Revelation 6:16-17: “They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/20-5.htm
Young's Literal Translation
and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this is the first rising again.
quoting, tho I underlined :gsmile:
Quote
The Order of Resurrection (1 Cor.15:22-28)
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.
24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.”b Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
https://biblehub.com/bsb/revelation/20.htm -- except I think of verse 15 as having an implied "by then" :gsmile:
"Greek word mistranslation excuse.... nor is it recognized by the scholars who have translated the Bible"
Not even the author of Young's Literal?
Revelation 20:10
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/20-10.htm
aiōnas/ αἰῶνας/ ages
tōn/ τῶν/ of the
aiōnōn/ αἰώνων/ ages
Matthew 25:41
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/25-41.htm
pyr/ πῦρ/ fire
to/ τὸ/ -
aiōnion/ αἰώνιον/ eternal
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
For how many years was the company of Onesimus enjoyed by those to whom Paul sent him? (an infinite length of time?)
Philemon 1 (King James Bible), https://biblehub.com/kjv/philemon/1.htm
10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds: 11 Which in time past was to thee unprofitable, but now profitable to thee and to me: 12 Whom I have sent again.... 15 For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; 16 Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both
Philemon 1:15
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/philemon/1-15.htm
echōristhē/ ἐχωρίσθη/ he was separated [from you]
pros/ πρὸς/ for
hōran/ ὥραν/ a time
hina/ ἵνα/ so that
aiōnion/ αἰώνιον/ eternally
auton/ αὐτὸν/ him
apechēs/ ἀπέχῃς/ you might possess
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Sodom got destroyed by fire. For how many years did Sodom experience the fire that destroyed it? (an infinite number of years?)
Jude 1:7
https://biblehub.com/kjv/jude/1.htm
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 1:7
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/jude/1-7.htm
deigma/ δεῖγμα/ an example
pyros/ πυρὸς/ of fire
aiōniou/ αἰωνίου/eternal
dikēn/ δίκην/ [the] penalty
hypechousai/ ὑπέχουσαι/ undergoing
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Did the mystery mentioned below cease to be a mystery? or is it a mystery that never ever ceased to be a mystery?
Colossians 1:26 (King James Bible), https://biblehub.com/kjv/colossians/1.htm
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to his saints:
Colossians 1:26
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/colossians/1-26.htm
mystērion/ μυστήριον/ mystery
to/ τὸ/ -
apokekrymmenon/ ἀποκεκρυμμένον/ having been hidden
apo/ ἀπὸ/ from
tōn/ τῶν/ the
aiōnōn/ αἰώνων/ ages
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
How confident are you that there's a "forever" here, and not "age"?:
Jude 1:13 (Young's Literal Translation), https://biblehub.com/ylt/jude/1.htm
wild waves of a sea, foaming out their own shames;
stars going astray, to whom the gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept.
Jude 1:13
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/jude/1-13.htm
hois/ οἷς/ to whom
ho/ ὁ/ the
zophos/ ζόφος/ gloom
tou/ τοῦ/ -
kotous/ σκότους/ of darkness
eis/ εἰς/ to
aiōna/ αἰῶνα/ [the] age
tetērētai/ τετήρηται/ has been reserved
The Aramaic Jude has: l'ailm, i.e. to-the-world/age.
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/interlinear-search
Peshi tta tool at http://dukhrana.com
I see the dead spiritually as just earthly vessels [vanity/ know nothing of the true and living God ] but the evil spirits ruling over the flesh bodies , as in the world and of the world [sin and spirit of error ] 1 John 4:1-6
being born again of the HOLY SPIRIT is the in " Christ anointing " sent by the Father to do His will and desire by salvation of what was nothing to somthing , whatever proceeds out of the mouth of God will never return to Him void , but purposed exactly as He planned
even the BEAST shall hate the whore and eat her flesh and burn her with fire because GOD purposed it in their hearts to do so in the proper timing ..
rev 17 The Victory of the Lamb
...15Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute was seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
16And the ten horns and the beast that you saw will hate the prostitute
. They will leave her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
17For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled....
unless we can grasp this action by the Holy Spirit witness and knowing this by His Word and Spirit in our hearts and minds .....
we would see it is as a fearful thing and very disturbing and be confused as to why GOD would allow such suffering to take place , but by faith and having the substance of hope in something wonderful will come of all the madness and warring taking place we could not have any peace in seeing this happening in real life , but now understand that it is GODS purpose and at the end of our faith and hope in God it will bring a great glory to GOD in the earth as it is in heaven .
I believe it will be impossible to discern without the HOLY SPIRIT comforting us as to what is going on in the world
but our Hope is in believing GOD and HIS WORD IS TRUE ,. We see this happening in every generation in some sort of way to make us understand the desire of GOD .
I was using this as an example only and know the term ,'' hell '' is a judgement in the earth that brings forth the TRUTH and knowing the truth sets us free . and no longer bound up in her / babylonian confusion ... taste not touch not , lest you recieve her plagues , the beast is one of her plagues .
Some Greek mss. for Romans 8:1 lack material present in the original Aramaic:
Romans 8:1, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) Hence, there is no condemnation to them who do not walk according to the flesh, in Jeshu Meshiha.
(Murdock) There is therefore no condemnation, to them who, in Jesus Messiah, walk not after the flesh.
(KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:1 (HCSB), https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans+8%3A1&version=KJV;HCSB
8 Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,[a]
a: Other mss add _who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit_
Quote from: DavidFord on September 06, 2019, 03:47:10 AM
Some Greek mss. for Romans 8:1 lack material present in the original Aramaic:
Romans 8:1, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) Hence, there is no condemnation to them who do not walk according to the flesh, in Jeshu Meshiha.
(Murdock) There is therefore no condemnation, to them who, in Jesus Messiah, walk not after the flesh.
(KJV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:1 (HCSB), https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans+8%3A1&version=KJV;HCSB
8 Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,[a]
a: Other mss add _who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit_
Yes!! walking in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ peace :thumbsup:
For Mark 3:29, is it: "is guilty of an eternal sin"? "is subject to eternal judgment"?
Mark 3:29 (HCSB)
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit
never has forgiveness,
but is guilty of an eternal sin"[a: Other mss read
_is subject to eternal judgment_]--
As of A.D. 175, the text mentioned judgment and not sin:
Diatesseron 14:29
but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit,
there is no forgiveness for him for ever,
but he is deserving of eternal punishment:
The original Aramaic of the Peshi tta mentions judgment and not sin:
Mark 3:29 (Younan)
but he who blasphemes against the Rukha d'Qudsha [Spirit of Holiness]
has no forgiveness ever,
rather he is guilty before the dina [judgment] that is eternal."
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
For Luke 9:54-56, did it have all the footnoted material?
Luke 9:54-56 (HCSB)
54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they said,
"Lord, do You want us to call down fire from heaven to consume them?"[a: Other mss add _as Elijah also did_]
55 But He turned and rebuked them,[b: Other mss add _and said,
"You don't know what kind of spirit you belong to.
56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy people's lives but to save them,"_]
56 and they went to another village.
The complete text was present in both instances as of A.D. 175:
Diatesseron 38:45-47
And when James and John his disciples saw it, they said unto him,
Our Lord, wilt thou that we speak, and fire come down from heaven, to extirpate them, as did Elijah also?
And Jesus turned, and rebuked them, and said,
Ye know not of what spirit ye are.
Verily the Son of man did not come to destroy lives, but to give life.
And they went to another village.
The original Aramaic of the Peshi tta has the complete text in both instances:
Luke 9:54-56 (Younan)
54. And when his students Yaqub and Yukhanan saw (it), they said to him,
"Maran, do you desire us to speak and have fire descend from heaven and consume them as Eliyah also did?"
55. And he turned around and rebuked them and said,
"You do not realize of which rukha [spirit] you are.
56. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy souls,
but to make (them) live."
And they went to another village.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Was Mt 21:44 in the original Matthew?
Matthew 21:44 (HCSB)
[44 Whoever falls on this stone
will be broken to pieces;
but on whoever it falls,
it will grind him to powder!]"[a:
Other mss omit bracketed text]
The text was present as of A.D. 175:
Diatesseron 33:58
And whosoever falleth on this stone
shall be broken in pieces:
but on whomsoever it falleth,
it will grind him to powder.
The original Aramaic of the Peshi tta contains a slightly-simpler version of that text:
Matthew 21:44 (Younan)
And whoever falls upon this Stone
will be broken,
and any (that) it falls upon,
it will destroy."
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Was Mt 18:11 in the original Matthew?
Matthew 18:11 (HCSB)
[11 For the Son of Man has come to save the lost.][a: Other mss omit bracketed text]
All of the text was present as of A.D. 175:
Diatesseron 27:29
The Son of man came to save the thing which was lost.
The original Aramaic of the Peshi tta has the complete text:
Matthew 18:11 (Younan)
For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
-- extracts from
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/iI-uGFZ9CjwJ
Per Acts 9:29, I concede that Paul spoke Greek.
Do you think Paul thought in: Greek? Latin? Hebrew? Aramaic?
Do you think Paul dictated his letters in: Greek? Latin? Hebrew? Aramaic?
Do you think Acts 9:29 originally said Paul debated: Yehudians who knew Greek? Greeks?
Peshi tta verses that contains lexeme 1:1341, http://dukhrana.com
Luke 23:38
(Etheridge) And there was also an inscription which was written over him in Greek and Roman and Hebrew, [Javanoith, Rumoith, Ebroith.] THIS IS THE KING OF THE JIHUDOYEE.
(Murdock) And there was likewise a superscription over him, written in Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew: THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
(Lamsa) There was also an inscription which was written over him, in Greek and Roman, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
(KJV) And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
John 19:20
(Etheridge) And this title many of the Jihudoyee read; for nigh to the city was the place where Jeshu was crucified; and the writing was in Hebrew and Greek and Roman.
(Murdock) And many of the Jews read this label; because the place where Jesus was crucified, was near to Jerusalem; and it was written in Hebrew and Greek and Latin.
(Lamsa) And a great many Jews read this tablet, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew and in Greek and in Roman.
(KJV) This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
Acts 9:29
(Etheridge) And he spake in the name of Jeshu with boldness,
and disputed with those Jihudoyee who knew Greek; [Javanith.]
but they were wishful to kill him.
(Murdock) And he spoke openly in the name of Jesus
and disputed with those Jews who understood Greek.
But they wished to kill him:
(Lamsa) And he spoke openly in the name of Jesus,
and debated with the Jews who understood Greek:
but they wanted to kill him.
(KJV) And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus,
and disputed against the Grecians:
but they went about to slay him.
Acts 21:37
(Etheridge) And as they came to enter into the fortress, Paulos himself said to the tribune, May I be permitted to speak to the people ? But he said to him, Javanith knowest thou ?
(Murdock) And when he came near to entering the castle, Paul said to the Chiliarch: Wilt thou permit me to speak with thee ? And he said to him: Dost thou know Greek?
(Lamsa) And as Paul was about to be led into headquarters, he said to the chief captain, May I speak to you? The captain said, Can you speak Greek?
(KJV) And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee? Who said, Canst thou speak Greek?
For Rom 5:1, was it originally: "we have peace with God"? "let us have peace with God"?
Romans 5:1 (NIV)
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
a: Many manuscripts _let us_
How did Rom 11:6 originally read?
Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.[a]
a: Other mss add _But if of works it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work._
Did Heb 10:38 originally have: "my righteous one"? "the righteous one"?
Hebrews 10:38 (NIV)
38 And,
"But my righteous[a] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back."
a: Some early manuscripts _But the righteous_
What specific verse(s) in Acts 21 leads you to suspect that Greek was Paul's preferred language? (Acts 21:28?)
Paul understood spoken Aramaic, and spoke Aramaic; Jesus selected Aramaic to speak to Paul with:
From
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NIV&quicksearch=aramaic&begin=47&end=73
Acts 21:40 (NIV) After receiving the commander's permission, Paul stood on the steps and motioned to the crowd. When they were all silent, he said to them in Aramaic:
Acts 22:2 When they heard him speak to them in Aramaic, they became very quiet. Then Paul said:
Acts 26:14 We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'
Paul used an Aramaic phrase at the end of one of his letters:
1 Cor 16:22 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20cor%2016%3A22&version=HCSB
If anyone does not love the Lord, a curse be on him. Marana tha that is, Lord, come![a]
a: Or Maran atha (an Aram expression transliterated into Gk) = Our Lord has come!
The Mary mentioned here spoke Aramaic:
John 20:16 (NIV) Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means "Teacher").
Jesus spoke Aramaic:
From
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=TPT&quicksearch=aramaic&begin=47&end=73
Matthew 27:46 (TPT) And at three o'clock Jesus shouted with a mighty voice in Aramaic, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?"—that is, "My God, My God, why have you deserted me?"
Mark 5:41 He tenderly clasped the child's hand in his and said to her in Aramaic, "Talitha koum," which means, "Little girl, wake up from the sleep of death."
Mark 7:34 Then he gazed into heaven, sighed deeply, and spoke to the man's ears and tongue, "Ethpathakh," which is Aramaic for "Open up, now!"
At the time of Jesus' crucifixion, the residents of Jerusalem spoke Aramaic:
Acts 1:18-19 (PHILLIPS)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+1:18&version=PHILLIPS
(This man had bought a piece of land with the proceeds of his infamy, but his body swelled up and his intestines burst. This fact became well known to all the residents of Jerusalem so that the piece of land came to be called in their Aramaic language Akeldama, which means "the field of blood".)
What led you to conclude that Greek was widely spoken among first-century Jews?
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The Antiquities of the Jews, 20.263
Flavius Josephus translated by William Whiston
https://lexundria.com/j_aj/20.263/wst, https://lexundria.com/j_aj/20.264/wst, https://lexundria.com/j_aj/20.265/wst
263 For those of my own nation freely acknowledge that I far exceed them in the learning belonging to the Jews; I have also taken a great deal of pains to obtain the learning of the Greeks, and understand the elements of the Greek language, although I have so long accustomed myself to speak our own tongue, that I cannot pronounce Greek with sufficient exactness;
264 for our nation does not encourage those that learn the languages of many nations, and so adorn their discourses with the smoothness of their periods; because they look upon this sort of accomplishment as common, not only to all sorts of free-men, but to as many of the servants as please to learn them. But they give him the testimony of being a wise man who is fully acquainted with our laws, and is able to interpret their meaning;
265 on which account, as there have been many who have done their endeavors with great patience to obtain this learning, there have yet hardly been so many as two or three that have succeeded therein, who were immediately well rewarded for their pains.
Against Apion, 1.50
Flavius Josephus translated by William Whiston
https://lexundria.com/j_ap/1.50/wst
50 Afterward I got leisure at Rome; and when all my materials were prepared for that work, I made use of some persons to assist me in learning the Greek tongue, and by these means I composed the history of those transactions; and I was so well assured of the truth of what I related, that I first of all appealed to those that had the supreme command in that war, Vespasian and Titus, as witnesses for me,
Jesus likely spoke the Aramaic, as He was not talking to gentiles.. It’s likely many knew Greek? It being so widespread and prevalent? But still seems most likely to me the Lord spoke to His listeners - a LOT of everyday folks - in the Aramaic.
Which to me means He would not have referred to ’Hades’ but to “Sheol” where “there is no thought nor doing” (called device in older translations than our more modern ones).
Where there is “dust” - Psalm 30:9. Where “the bed and covering is worms”. (Yes active imaginations love to see this differently. Isaiah 14)
But when the Lord talked about judgment it was fiery. Using Gehenna (valley, where children were sacrificed to Molech and later trash, dead animals and bodies of criminals were burned - “better you cast your evil eye there than your whole body be thrown there” - and the valley, one of three connected, where the notorious (fiery) Armageddon is prophesied to occur. And is referred to by the prophets as “judgment upon the nations”. Ps.2 - “Why do the nations rage?!” A blend of anger and madness?
...don’t you think Armageddon of the nations will turn into a lake of fire? the smoke if rising up in all memories forever and ever? The conclusion of God’s truth proving documentary...
AND, Jesus said - “All in the tombs” (where? in the Greek hades? in a temporary hell?) - “all in the tombs” (graves) “will hear His voice and will come forth” (from the graves/tombs!) “some in the resurrection of life” (at His return/appearing) “and some in the resurrection of judgment” (Jn.5:28-29; Rev.20).
“ForGod KNOWS how to preserve the unjust for CORRECTION/kolasis on day of judgment” (an age of 500 years? See the pattern of the Fall Holy Days - Leviticus 23).
The complete bubble called hell will be totally burst by The Truth.
P.S. — “But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, accommodating, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and sincere.”
I cannot believe the resurrection of judgment is a waking up then dumping into a lake of fire. By end of “the judgment” (the Lord talked about) I believe He will have “drawn ALL to Himself” (Jn.12:32) And is when “ALL the ends of Earth will remember - Hebrew, come to their senses - and will turn to the LORD and ALL families of the nations will worship/rejoice before Him” (Ps.22:27 that so very literal prophecy psalm, not a bone of Him was broken, etc).
Thus during “the judgment” ALL names get written into the Book of Life. And the 2nd death remains what the verse says it is, the death of death and all its “shadow” caused by imperfection/“missing the mark” OR we could say, caused by His creating beings endowed with genuine thinking and reasoning ability and letting its fruit exist.
He “is perfect” and perfect never, ever misses the mark.
“God is love” and “love never fails” 1 Jn.4:8 and 1Cor.13:8.
But I do believe the potential of being in an afterlife lake of fire is possible even for humans, but shall not occur. And I believe Satan&Co. spend time there being purified.. A lake of fire occurring when “all things are made new” at the “all in all” event.. a drastic burning away of the chaff.
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief” - the Lord’s return amidst fiery Armageddon - “in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13BUT according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.”
Two fiery events, like bookends to the Lord’s long second advent..?
How do you think Mark 7:3 originally read?:
"unless they ceremonially [literally: "with a fist"] wash [their] hands"?
"unless they carefully wash their hands"?
http://web.ovc.edu/terry/tc/lay04mrk.htm
Mark 7:3:
TEXT: "unless they ceremonially wash [their] hands"
EVIDENCE: A B D K L X Theta Pi f1 f13 28 33 565 700 892 1010 1241 Byz Lect most lat syr(h)margin
TRANSLATIONS: ASV RSVn NASV NIV NEBn TEV
RANK: A
NOTES: "unless they wash [their] hands"
EVIDENCE: Delta syr(s) cop(south)
TRANSLATIONS: RSV* NEB
NOTES: "unless they frequently wash [their] hands"
EVIDENCE: S W three lat vg syr(p,h) cop(north)
TRANSLATIONS: KJV NEBn
COMMENTS: The word translated "ceremonially" literally means "with a fist." Since the exact ceremony referred to is unknown, some copyists omitted the word while others replaced it with a word that makes more sense.
4435. pugmé
https://biblehub.com/greek/4435.htm
pugmé: the fist
Original Word: πυγμή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pugmé
Phonetic Spelling: (poog-may')
Definition: the fist
Usage: the fist.
Mark 7:3, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) For all the Jihudoyee and Pharishee, unless they carefully wash their hands, do not eat, because they hold the tradition of the elders;
(Murdock) For all the Jews and the Pharisees, unless they carefully wash their hands do not eat; because they hold fast the tradition of the Elders.
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How do you think Luke 7:45 originally read?:
"since she entered"? "since I entered"?
Luke 7:36-37 (Etheridge) NOW there came one of the Pharishee requesting of him to eat with him: and he entered into the house of the Pharisha, and reclined. And a woman, a sinner, was in that city; and when she knew that in the house of the Pharisha he reclined, she took a vase of ointment,
Luke 7:45
(Murdock) Thou gavest me no kiss; but this woman, since she came in, hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
(Lamsa) You did not kiss me; but she, since she entered, has not ceased to kiss my feet.
(KJV) Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet.
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How do you think Luke 7:47 originally read?:
"her many sins have been forgiven, because she did love much"?
"because her sins that are forgiven her are many, she has loved much"?
Luke 7:47 (Young's Literal Translation)
therefore I say to thee, her many sins have been forgiven, because she did love much;
but to whom little is forgiven, little he doth love.'
Luke 7:47 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
For I say this to you:
because her sins that are forgiven her are many,
she has loved much.
But he that is forgiven little,
him loves little."
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What's the better understanding of John 6:21:
the disciples wanted/ were willing to receive Jesus into the boat?
the disciples were glad/ rejoiced to receive Jesus into the boat?
John 6:21
(Murdock) And they were glad to receive him into the ship. And, directly, the ship was at the land to which they were going.
(Lamsa) So they wanted to receive him into the boat; but soon the boat reached the land to which they were going.
http://cal.huc.edu/getlex.php?coord=620430621&word=0
cby verb G
ṣby vb. to desire
G
1 to desire Com.
2 to be pleased Syr. --(a) p.p. + l_ X : to please X CPA.
3 (of inanimate) : to prefer, to deserve to be Syr.
C
1 to arouse the will Syr.
Gt
1 w. ܒ_ : to be pleased with, find pleasing Syr. --(a) to be in favor of, prefer Syr. --(b) to love Syr. --(c) to wish Syr, JBA.
2 to consent, to be mutually willing Gal, Syr, JBAg.
John 6:21 (YLT)
21 they were willing then to receive him into the boat, and immediately the boat came unto the land to which they were going.
2309. theló
https://biblehub.com/greek/2309.htm
theló: to will, wish
Original Word: θέλω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: theló
Phonetic Spelling: ( eth-el'-o,)
Definition: to will, wish
Usage: I will, wish, desire, am willing, intend, design
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Greek is a very precise language. Improved understanding of the text can be gotten by inspecting the original prior to its being translated and recopied numerous times.
What's the better understanding of John 10:1-18, specifically verses 7 and 9:
Jesus is "the gate for the sheep"?
Jesus is "the door of the sheep"?
Jesus is "the gatekeeper of the sheep"?
John 10:7,9 (NIV)
7 Therefore Jesus said again, "Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.
9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved....
John 10:7,9 (HCSB)
7 So Jesus said again, "I assure you: I am the door of the sheep.
9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved....
John 10 (based on Younan, and based on analysis of verses 7 and 9 and Mark 13:34 using the Peshi tta tool at http://dukhrana.com)
1. "Amain, amain I say to you that,
he who does not enter into the sheepfold of the flock by the gate,
but climbs up by another place,
he is a thief and a robber.[Rabban Yeshua uses a wordplay here between TARA (gate) and TYARA (sheepfold). -- PY]
2. But he who enters by the gate
is the shepherd of the flock.
3. And to this man the gatekeeper opens the gate,
and the flock hears his voice
and he calls his sheep by their names
and he leads them out.
4. And when he leads out his flock
he goes before it
and his sheep go after him
because they know his voice.
5. However, the flock does not go after a stranger,[literally: foreigner]
rather it flees from him
because it does not know the voice of the stranger."
6. Yeshua told them this pelatha [parable] but they did not comprehend what he spoke with them. 7. Now Yeshua again said to them,
"Amain, amain I say to you that,
ENA-NA the Gatekeeper of the flock.[a wordplay exists here with ENA (I) and ANA (Flock). The word for flock here is plural. -- PY]
8. And all those who have come are thieves and robbers
if the flocks have not heard them.[is that flock plural?]
9. ENA-NA the Gatekeeper,
and if a man should enter by me he will live
and will enter and go out and he will find pasture.
10. A thief does not come but that (he) may steal and kill and destroy.
I have come that they may have life,
and they may have something which is abundant.
11. ENA-NA the Good Shepherd.
The Good Shepherd lays down napshah [his life, literally: his breath] for his flock.
12. But a hireling who is not the shepherd,
nor are the sheep his,
leaves the sheep and flees when he sees a wolf coming.
And the wolf comes (and) plunders and scatters the flock.
13. Now the hireling flees because he is hired
and he does not care about the flock.
14. ENA-NA the Good Shepherd,
and I know those who are mine,
and I'm known by those who are mine,
15. just as Abbi [my Father] knows me,
and I know Abbi.
And I lay down my life for the sake of the flock.
16. And I also have other sheep,
those who were not from this sheepfold.
And it is necessary for me to also bring them,
and they will hear my voice,
and all the flocks will become one,
and (there will be) one Shepherd.
17. Abbi loves me because of this:
that I lay down my life,
that I might take it up again.
18. No man takes it from me,
but I lay it down by my own will.
For I have authority to lay it down,
and I have authority to take it up again,
for I have received this commandment from Abbi."
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What's the better understanding of John 14:2?:
"and if not, I would have told you"?
"and it is necessary I would have told you"?
John 14:2 (YLT)
in the house of my Father are many mansions;
and if not, I would have told you;
I go on to prepare a place for you;
John 14:2 (based on Younan, on looking at the Aramaic for it and for Acts 3:21, and on Torrey, 113)
The rooms (in) the house of Abbi [my Father] are many,
wala [and it is necessary] I would have told you,
for I go to prepare a place for you.
Acts 3:20-21 And He sent to you that which He had prepared for you, Yeshua the Meshikha, whom wla [it is necessary] for heaven to receive until the fullness of the times of all these (things) that Allaha spoke by the mouth of qedisha nabiuhi [of His holy nabia] of old.
_Our Translated Gospels: Some of the Evidence_ (1936), 172pp. by Charles Cutler Torrey
https://archive.org/details/OurTranslatedGospelsCCTorrey/page/n1
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Do you think Acts 4:25 originally did, or didn't, mention: 'our father'? 'the Holy Spirit'?
http://web.ovc.edu/terry/tc/lay11act.htm
Acts 4:25:
TEXT: "who by the mouth of our father David, your servant, did say through the Holy Spirit, 'Why did the Gentiles'"
EVIDENCE: p74 S A B E Psi 33 945 1739 one lat syr(h)?
TRANSLATIONS: ASV RSV NASV NIV TEV
RANK: D
NOTES: "who through the mouth of David, your servant, did say, 'Why did the Gentiles'"
EVIDENCE: P 614 1241 2495 Byz
TRANSLATIONS: KJV ASVn NEBn
NOTES: "who through the mouth of David, your servant, did say through the Holy Spirit, 'Why did the Gentiles'"
EVIDENCE: D (both Greek and Latin) syr(p) most cop
TRANSLATIONS: ASVn? NEB
OTHER: "the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David, your servant, did say, 'Why did the Gentiles'"
EVIDENCE: 629 two lat vg syr(h)? some cop(north)
COMMENTS: The word order of the text reading is very confusing, "our father" preceding "through the Holy Spirit" which precedes "the mouth of David." This difficult word order probably accounts for the changes made in this passage. Several copyists omitted "our father" which seems to be grammatically stranded at the beginning of the sentence. Perhaps others questioned the theology of having God speak "through the Holy Spirit," like they are two different entities, and omitted the words "the Holy Spirit," leaving "through" to precede "the mouth of David."
Acts 4 (based on Younan)
24-26. And they, when they heard, they raised their voice as one to Allaha, and they said,
"MrYa [Master YHWH],
you are Allaha,
He who made heaven and earth
and the seas and everything that is in them.
And you are He who spoke
through the Rukha d'Qudsha [Spirit of Holiness]
by the mouth of Dawid your servant,
'Why do the nations rage,
and the peoples plan worthless (things)?
The malka [kings] and rulers of the earth have risen
and have deliberated as one
against MrYa and against Meshikheh [His Meshikha].'
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The Aramaic Peshi tta NT is replete with explicit references to 'YHWH.' Do you think the NT originally did, or didn't, have such?
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For Acts 10:36, do you agree that "the text reading is not proper Greek but it is the sort of Greek that one would expect in a translation from Aramaic"?
http://web.ovc.edu/terry/tc/lay11act.htm
Acts 10:36:
TEXT: "plYou know the word which he sent to the sons"
EVIDENCE: p74 S* C D E P Psi 945 1241 2495 Byz Lect one lat syr
TRANSLATIONS: KJV ASV RSV NASV NIV TEV
RANK: C
NOTES: "plYou know he sent the word to the sons"
EVIDENCE: Sa A B 81 614 1739 most lat vg cop
TRANSLATIONS: ASVn NASVn NEB
COMMENTS: The difference in the two readings is the inclusion or omission of "which" which is included in brackets in the UBS text. The text reading is not proper Greek but it is the sort of Greek that one would expect in a translation from Aramaic. Since the last two letters of the Greek word for "word" spell the Greek word for "which," it is possible that the word "which" was accidently added when copyists saw those letters twice. On the other hand, it is also possible that the word "which" was originally present and it was accidently omitted when copyists' eyes jumped from the end of "word" to the end of "which."
====================================================.
My response to Ehrman is below. How would you respond to him?
_Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them)_ by Bart D. Ehrman (2009), 292pp. On 36, 37
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrupted-Revealing-Hidden-Contradictions/dp/0061173940/
Joseph is not Jesus' father. But that creates an obvious problem. If Jesus is not a blood-relation to Joseph, why is it that Matthew and Luke trace Jesus' bloodline precisely through Joseph? This is a question that neither author answers: both accounts give a genealogy that can't be the genealogy of Jesus, since his only bloodline goes through Mary, yet neither author provides her genealogy. .... Luke explicitly indicates that the family line is that of Joseph, not Mary (Luke 1:23; also Matthew 1:16). ....
There are other problems. In ... Matthew's genealogy .... from the Babylonian disaster to the birth of Jesus, fourteen generations (1:17). Fourteen, fourteen, and fourteen-it is almost as if God had planned it this way. .... The problem is that the fourteen-fourteen-fourteen schema doesn't actually work. If you read through the names carefully, you'll see that in the third set of fourteen there are in fact only thirteen generations.
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Matthew 1:17 says there are 14, 14, 14 generations.
Greek manuscripts of Matthew's genealogy mistakenly list 14, 14, 13 generations.
In Aramaic mss. of Matthew's genealogy, with Mt 1:16's "gbra" correctly translated as father/guardian, Matthew's genealogy lists 14, 14, 14 generations.
Mary had a father/guardian named Joseph (plus a husband also called Joseph).
Jesus is a descendant of King David on his biological mother Mary's side (per Mt's genealogy), and on his step-dad Joseph's side (per Lk's genealogy).
====================================================.
Re: Jeremiah, my response to Ehrman is below. How would you respond to him?
_Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them)_ by Bart D. Ehrman (2009), 292pp., 51
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Interrupted-Revealing-Hidden-Contradictions/dp/0061173940/
3. _Why does Matthew quote the wrong prophet?_ When Matthew indicates that Judas betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver, he notes (as by now we expect of him) that this was in fulfillment of Scripture: "Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet Jeremiah, And they took the thirty pieces of silver ... and they gave them for the potter's field" (Mathew 27:9-10). The problem is that this prophecy is not found in Jeremiah. It appears to be a loose quotation of Zechariah 11:3.
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For Mt 27:9-10, Greek manuscripts have the erroneous addition that Jeremiah said a particular remark, when there's no Old Testament evidence that Jeremiah said that. The Aramaic original leaves unspecified the name of the prophet, avoiding an unnecessary contradiction:
(based on Younan)
"Then the thing was fulfilled which was spoken of by the prophet who said,
"I took the thirty (pieces) of silver,
the price of the precious one
which (those) from the sons of Israel agreed upon."
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As it was originally written, do you think Luke 2:1 read: "his dominion"/"his empire"? "the world"?
Luke 2:1
(Etheridge) NOW it was in those days that there went forth a mandate from Augustus Caesar to enrol the people of his dominion.
(Lamsa) AND it happened in those days that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, to take a census of all the people in his empire.
(KJV) And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
====================================================.
As it was originally written, do you think Luke 2:11 did, or didn't, explicitly refer to YHWH?
Luke 2:11 (based on Younan)
For today is born to you in the medintha [city] of Dawid the Paruqa [Deliverer] who is MrYa [Master YHWH], the Meshikha.
Luke 2:11 (KJV)
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
From
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/2-11.htm
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary ....
Christ the Lord-- "magnificent appellation!" [Bengel]. "This is the only place where these words come together; and I see no way of understanding this "Lord" but as corresponding to the Hebrew Jehovah" [Alford].
....
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges ....
the Lord] In the lower sense the word is used as a mere title of distinction; in the higher sense it is (as in the LXX.) the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Jehovah'—the ineffable name.
Quote
Greek is a very precise language. Improved understanding of the text can be gotten by inspecting the original prior to its being translated and recopied numerous times.
A-men!! And context of course.. For myself, I believe in an annual (extensive) reading of our 'loaf'/daily bread, our New Testament of His covenant with us.. As we continue reading and studying by the language tools we now have at our fingertips.. by reading and receiving as a child.. and of course context and also considering "all" pertaining verses.. We will finally come to understand all truth.. True from not true.. And there sure is aLOT of untrue upon the planet! :doh: :laughing7: But which we can be assured only Truth, ultimately will remain standing.. hence wanting our works to be based upon and consist only of Truth... "householders being faithful in feeding His sheep/lambs/little ones"..
Meaning NO doctrine no matter HOW strongly held (stronghold) is beyond intense biblical scrutiny! :gsmile: (Especially one which blasphemes His holy name.. "Hallowed, be His name"!)
As it was originally written, do you think Luke 1:39 originally read: 'to the city Judah'? 'to the city Jutta'? 'to the province of Judah'?
Pulpit Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/1-39.htm
Verse 39. .... Into a city of Juda. There is no such city known as "Juda." Some have supposed that the text is corrupt here, and that for "Yuda" we should read "Jutta," which, according to Joshua 15:55, was a priestly city in the hill country.
Charles C. Torrey, "The Translations Made from the Original Aramaic Gospels" in _Studies in the History of Religions, Presented to Crawford Howell Toy by Pupils, Colleagues and Friends_ (1912), 269-317. From 290-292
https://archive.org/stream/studiesinhistory00lyonuoft/studiesinhistory00lyonuoft_djvu.txt
The best starting point is afforded by the 'Gospel of the Infancy,' comprising the first two chapters of Luke. Here is a narrative which was certainly not invented by Luke himself. It is not based on oral tradition, in fact it has none of the characteristics of such tradition, but is from beginning to end the conception of a _litterateur_ of skill and taste, who wrote in the spirit of the Old Testament narratives. The style, which is homogeneous throughout, is as far removed from that of the preceding prologue as the east is from the west. The Greek is distinctly of the 'translation' variety, altogether like that of the Greek books of Samuel, or 1 Maccabees, or Judith. It is not a matter of occasional or frequent Hebraisms, the style is one continuous Hebraism. I have already touched upon the language of these two chapters, in the preceding general discussion, reserving for this place the proof that the narrative was composed in a Semitic tongue.
Luke i.39 reads as follows : .... "And Mary arose in those days and went into the hill country with haste, to ... , and entered into the house of Zachariah," etc. The phrase εἰς πόλιν Ἰούδα has been an unsolved riddle. It cannot mean 'to _a_ city of Judah (or Judea),' which would be εἰς πόλιν τῆς Ἰουδαίας, as in verse 26 of this chapter. The only permissible rendering is 'to the city (named) Judah,' but there was no city of that name. No commentator has been able to suggest any plausible explanation of the phrase. The Greek text shows no variation, and there is no reason to doubt its correctness.
But as soon as we go back of the Greek to the underlying Semitic, the original meaning of the troublesome phrase is evident. What the author of the narrative wrote was ... , and the translation should have been ... 'to _the province_ of Judea.' It is the phrase which occurs, for example, in Ezra v.8, ... , where the Greek has ... , and in 2 Macc. i.1, ... ; cf. also Neh. i.3, xi.3.
That this was the intent of the author is made still more evident by the comparison of verse 65, ... , and ii.4, .... In mentioning the journey from Nazareth to the neighborhood of Jerusalem, it was most natural to speak of passing _through the hill country into Judea_ ; thus in the book of Judith, where the narrator is dealing with this same route, he represents the high priest in Jerusalem as calling upon the people of Shechem and Samaria "to hold the passes into the hill country, because through them was the entrance into Judea," ....
The reason why the Greek of Luke i.39 mistranslates is perfectly obvious, and a very good one : because in the first century A.D. the use of ... in the signification _'province'_ was practically obsolete, having been supplanted by the meaning 'city.' As I have pointed out elsewhere,["Notes on the Aramaic Part of Daniel," in the Transactions of the Connecticut Academy of Arts and Sciences, 15. 259 f. (1909)] the uniform meaning of the word (whether Hebrew or Aramaic) in the Old Testament was 'province' ; yet its use to mean 'city' was also common as early as the second century B.C., as seems to be shown by the old Greek translation (πόλις) in Dan. xi.24. By the second century A.D. the meaning 'city' was the only usual one. Thus we have ... , 'the city of Chalcis,' in the _Megillath Taanith_; and the translator Symmachus even 'corrects' the ... of the older Greek versions of the Old Testament to πόλις in 1 Kings xx.14, Dan. viii.2 ; and (presumably also his correction) in the conflate Hexaplar text of Neh. i.3, .... The mistranslation in Dan. viii.2 is a perfect parallel to the one in Luke, for the Hebrew reads ... , which Symmachus renders 'in _the city_ (!) Elam.' The word continued to keep its old meaning in the phrase 'the province of Judea,' in Jewish circles, long after the beginning of the Christian era ; as appears, for example, from the occurrence of the phrase in the _Midrash Echa_ (see Dalman's Dialektproben, p.15, line 5 from the bottom).
Taken in connection with all the other indications of translation-- the glaring Hebraisms, the constant presence of a Semitic idiom underlying the Greek-- this evidence of mistranslation is absolutely decisive. I believe that the original document was Hebrew, not Aramaic....
Lk 1:39 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
And Maryam arose in them-- in those days-- and went quickly to a tuora [mountain; high pasture, field], to a medintha [province; country; territory, region; city; the government/the state] d'Yehud [of Judah/Judea].
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Do you agree that Luke 12:49 has an Aramaic idiom?
Charles C. Torrey, "The Translations Made from the Original Aramaic Gospels" in _Studies in the History of Religions, Presented to Crawford Howell Toy by Pupils, Colleagues and Friends_ (1912), 269-317. From 315
https://archive.org/stream/studiesinhistory00lyonuoft/studiesinhistory00lyonuoft_djvu.txt
[Luke] xii.49 f. -- .... 'I came to cast fire upon the earth, and _what will I if it is already kindled?_ I have a baptism to be baptised with, and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!' I have given the second clause of verse 49 in the words of the English Revised Version. The rendering is nonsense, to be sure, but it at least has the merit of following the text. Many interpreters, including some of the foremost of the Germans, have rendered according to the sense : 'How I wish that it were already kindled!' but this, as Plummer fairly objects, "does rather serious violence to the Greek." Turning the Greek back, word by word, into Aramaic, we have: .... But whoever has before him this Aramaic, not feeling obliged to render word for word, but rather to give the sense, can only translate it: 'And how I wish that it were already kindled!' The idiom is the regular one in Aramaic. We are given in Luke a too literal rendering-- though any ancient translator would have been likely to render in just this way.
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When originally written, do you think Matthew 28:1 had:
σαββάτων i.e. sabaton twice? b'Shabatha... b'shaba?
Do you think the Greek word for 'Saturday' should have been used in the Greek NT instead of transliterations of the Semitic 'Shabatha'?
Matthew 28:1
(Etheridge) FROM the evening (end) of the sabbath [Aramaic: b'Shabatha], when the first (day) in the week [Aramaic: b'shaba] was lightening, Mariam Magdolitha and the other Mariam came to see the sepulchre.
(Murdock) And in the close [evening] of the sabbath, as the first [day] of the week began to dawn, came Mary of Magdala and the other Mary, to view the sepulchre.
(Lamsa) IN the evening of the sabbath day, when the first day of the week began, there came Mary of Magdala and the other Mary, to see the tomb.
Matthew 28:1
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/28-1.htm
After then σαββάτων, it being dawn toward [the] first [day] σαββάτων came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb
Charles C. Torrey, "The Translations Made from the Original Aramaic Gospels" in _Studies in the History of Religions, Presented to Crawford Howell Toy by Pupils, Colleagues and Friends_ (1912), 269-317. From 300 https://archive.org/stream/studiesinhistory00lyonuoft/studiesinhistory00lyonuoft_djvu.txt
Schmiedel himself remarks (_ibid._) that the Gospel of Matthew is the one in which the citations from the Old Testament most often follow the Hebrew rather than the Greek, and that its author "could not have given such quotations as, for example, ii.15, 23, viii.17, xxvii.9 f. after the LXX at all." Highly significant admissions!
More than all this, the framework, connecting fabric, and merely embellishing matter of the book as we have it (and not merely the underlying sources) give plain evidence of translation. A typical case of the sort is found in xxviii.1, parallel to Mark xvi.1 f. and Luke xxiv.1. Several scholars have pointed out the fact that the monstrous 'Greek' in Matthew, Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων, τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων, is merely one of the painfully close translations with which we are familiar. The original was .... , that is, 'after the Sabbath, in the night introducing the first day of the week.'^18 The evidence of translation is perfect, for the Aramaic phrases are the ones regularly used, the Greek rendering fits them exactly, and no Greek author could ever have devised such a form of words.
18: The evidence has been set forth most fully and convincingly by Professor Moore, in the Journal of the American Oriental Society, 26. 323-329 (1905). Moore also refers to Geiger, and points out the fact that Jerome was the first to suspect imperfect translation in this passage. See also the reference to Professor Kennett in Wright's Synopsis of the Gospels in Greek, 3d ed., p. 171.
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Luke 23:54's ἐπέφωσκεν/ epephosken comes from: epi (on, to, against, on the basis of, at), and phos (light). Ref:
https://biblehub.com/greek/2020.htm
Do you agree, or disagree, with Torrey's claim that "no Greek writer would ever in this place have written ἐπέφωσκεν unless he were translating the Semitic word which actually lay before him in a document"?
Charles C. Torrey, "The Translations Made from the Original Aramaic Gospels" in _Studies in the History of Religions, Presented to Crawford Howell Toy by Pupils, Colleagues and Friends_ (1912), 269-317. From 315-316
https://archive.org/stream/studiesinhistory00lyonuoft/studiesinhistory00lyonuoft_djvu.txt
[Luke] xxiii.54.-- ..... _καὶ σάββατον ἐπέφωσκεν._ 'Now it was the Day of Preparation, and the next day was the Sabbath.' The same idiom which has already been mentioned, above, in interpreting Matt. xxviii.1. Moore, in the Journal of the American Oriental Society, 26. 328 f., showed that the original of Luke's phrase was something like : .... I have noticed the very same phrase in the Syriac Chronicle of Joshua the Stylite, p. 22, line 9 : .... , where Wright translates : 'It was the night between Friday and Saturday.' In the evangelist's narrative, the hour is not stated ; we only know that it was the time when the sixth day was _passing over into_ the Sabbath. Any Aramaic text would have used here the word .... , "dawn," but no Greek writer would ever in this place have written ἐπέφωσκεν unless he were translating the Semitic word which actually lay before him in a document.
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When it was originally written, do you think Hebrews 11:37 did, or didn't, mention being tempted?
Hebrews 11:37, http://dukhrana.com
https://biblehub.com/text/hebrews/11-37.htm
(Murdock) others were stoned; others were sawed;
others died by the edge of the sword; others roamed about clothed in sheep skins and goat skins, and were needy, and afflicted, and agitated;
(KJV) They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted,
were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
From
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/hebrews/11-37.htm
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers....
They were sawn asunder.-- An ancient tradition, mentioned both by Jewish and by early Christian writers, relates that Isaiah was thus put to death by order of Manasseh. The following words, "they were tempted," are very remarkable in such a position; and many conjectures have been hazarded on the supposition that a mistake of transcription has occurred.
....
Barnes' Notes on the Bible....
Were tempted -- On this expression, which has given much perplexity in critics, see the notes of Prof. Stuart, Bloomfield, and Kuinoel. There is a great variety of reading in the mss. and editions of the New Testament, and many have regarded it as an interpolation. The difficulty which has been felt in reference to it has been, that it is a much milder word than those just used, and that it is hardly probable that the apostle would enumerate this among those which he had just specified, as if to be tempted deserved to be mentioned among sufferings of so severe a nature.
....
Matthew Poole's Commentary....
Were tempted: whether epeirasyhsan should not be epurasyhsan, is much doubted, temptation being no manner of death; and the Spirit had instanced in it before, Hebrews 11:35. It may therefore be a slip of the transcriber....
Meyer's NT Commentary....
ἐπειράσθησαν] were tempted. This general statement has about it something strange and inconvenient, inasmuch as it occurs in the midst of the mention of different kinds of violent death. Some, therefore, have been in favour of entirely deleting ἐπειράσθησαν (Erasmus, Calvin, Beza, Marloratus, Grotius, Hammond, Whitby, Calmet, Storr, Valckenaer, Schulz, Böhme, Kuinoel, Klee, Delitzsch, Maier, al.), in doing which, however, we are not justified by external evidence;[111] while others have thought that ἘΠΕΙΡΆΣΘΗΣΑΝ is a corruption, in itself early, of the original text, which latter must be restored by conjecture. It has been conjectured by Beza, edd. 3, 4, 5, that.... Others yet other conjectures; see Wetstein, Griesbach, and Scholz ad loc. Bleek, too, assumes an error in the text....
If ἘΠΕΙΡΆΣΘΗΣΑΝ is genuine, it must have been added by the author for the sake of the paronomasia with ἘΠΡΊΣΘΗΣΑΝ, and be referred to the enticements and temptations to escape a violent death by means of apostasy (comp. e.g. 2Ma 7:24).
Do you think Matthew 16:18 speaks of:
gates of Hades? stratagem of Sheol?
Matthew 16:18, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) Also I say unto thee, that thou art Kipha, and upon this rock will I build my church, and the gates of Sheul shall not prevail against her.
CAL for the Aramaic word Etheridge rendered as "gates"
http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=tr%28+N%20&cits=all
trˁ, trˁˀ (traˁ, tarˁā) n.m. gate
1 gate ....
2 entrance, opening .... (a) fig. (a.1) .... beginning of winter .... (a.2) way of accomplishing something, *stratagem,* approach .... (b) section of the horizon wherein an object rises or sets....
3 of "king" or "palace" : royal court .... (a) ellipt. : court, entourage....
Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:40:08 -0400
No, I think the Lord would have said "gates of sheol" - death. Opposite of life. "The gates" being poetic and not literal gates.. That death, and all its shadow, will not prevail, no matter what, against the church, His spiritual body, He is the head of..
Peter stood in the square that Pentecost morning and spoke to the people while God poured out His Spirit, and 3000 people were added to the believers that day. The 'church' beginning upon that Pentecost morning. And death shall not prevail against it.
Even now, out of the husk of organized Christianity - made of bricks and mortar, but within some/many sparkling jewels, like grains of salt, in it, we see the glorious complete gospel rising up, shining forth, and making a stand. And if she will stand on the Rock of God's logos - "reasoning expressed in words" (and reasoning expressed in Jesus!) God's reasoning! / Truth, then she will stand. But anybody's works built on sand shall fall with all the rest.
:Peace2:
Quote from: marie glen on October 12, 2019, 04:44:46 PM
No, I think the Lord would have said "gates of sheol"
IMO, 'prevail' goes better with an offensive weapon/approach, than with a defensive weapon/approach. 'The battering ram prevailed over the city gate' sounds better than 'The city gate prevailed over the battering ram.' To me, 'The stratagem prevailed' sounds better than 'The gates prevailed.'
What do you think of the possibility that what was meant was 'entourage of Sheol'?
Rev 22:15 mentions sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, and idolaters. Do you think Rev 22:15 originally also spoke of people who were: loving a lie? seers?
From https://biblehub.com/revelation/22-15.htm
(Young's Literal Translation)
and without are the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving [Greek: φιλῶν/ philōn] and is doing a lie.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
"And outside are fornicators, murderers, idol worshipers, the defiled, sorcerers and all seers and workers of lies."
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/22-15.htm linking to:
5368. phileó
https://biblehub.com/greek/5368.htm
phileó: to love
Original Word: φιλέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: phileó
Phonetic Spelling: (fil-eh'-o)
Definition: to love
Usage: I love (of friendship), regard with affection, cherish; I kiss.
http://dukhrana.com linking to
http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=xzy%232+N%20&cits=all
ḥzy, ḥzyˀ (ḥazzāy, ḥazzāyā) n.m. seer; watcher
1 seer OA, Syr. Zak.a12 .... then Baalshamayin ap[peared] to me by means of seers and by means of diviners. P 1S9:9 : .... come let us go to the seer; for a prophet of today previously used to be called a seer.
2 spectator, watcher Sam, Syr, Man. JSBhom 126:398 : .... the fighter was victorious and a clamor arose from the spectators. (a) eyewitness Syr. P Lk1:2 : .... eyewitnesses and ministers of the Word.
Bauscher notes that the Aramaic for 'seers' and for 'friends/beloved' look extremely similar in Dead Sea Scrolls script. See
David Bauscher, _Aramaic Bible in Plain English_, pg. 590 in the 7th edition
https://www.lulu.com/shop/rev-david-bauscher/the-original-aramaic-new-testament-in-plain-english-with-psalms-proverbs-8th-edition-with-notes/hardcover/product-21273790.html
Greg Glaser also has 'seers.'
http://dukhrana.com/crawford/
http://www.lulu.com/shop/greg-glaser/crawford-codex-of-revelation-aramaic-interlinear-with-english-translation/paperback/product-22823002.html
Matthew 5:32 But I tell you that whoever sends away his wife, except for the cause of sexual immorality, makes her an adulteress. And whoever marries the one sent away commits adultery.
Do you think it's a true statement that "whoever sends away his wife, except for the cause of sexual immorality, makes her an adulteress"?
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_Our Translated Gospels: Some of the Evidence_ (1936), 172pp.
by Charles Cutler Torrey, on 18-19
https://archive.org/details/OurTranslatedGospelsCCTorrey/page/n1
Exhibit III, B (Mt. 5:32, 19:9, and parallels).
The saying attributed to Jesus in the Grk. of Mt. 5:32a is a very
strange utterance indeed. The husband divorces his wife,
without any flagrant infidelity on her part, and the result
is, that _she_ commits adultery. Whether the husband incurs
similar guilt, is not stated. Hebrew law, and Jewish public
opinion, in such cases gave the wife a clean slate, and in
this decision the opinion of our own day would doubtless
concur. Will Jesus now reverse this judgment, pronouncing
the dissolved union adulterous, and with such emphasis that
only the guilt of the woman is mentioned? This seems
incredible, and it is not a view which interpreters of the
passage have thought reasonable.
He "makes her commit adultery." In what way? Montefiore,
_Syn. Gospels_, II, 66, gives the accepted explanation:
"by marrying another man." But the woman was under no
obligation to marry again-- and she might well think that
one trial was quite enough. However, she probably _would_
marry, say the commentators, and the second marriage
would be adulterous. But this is mere quibbling. The plain
fact is, that the declaration attributed to Jesus, if made
without qualification, _is not true._ The divorcing husband does
_not_ compel the divorced wife to commit adultery. If she
chooses to marry again, it is not her former husband who
makes her do so. It is hardly necessary to add, that the saying,
"he puts her in the way of committing" the sin, would
be a very weak conclusion after the impressive introduction.
_This_ difficulty disappears as soon as the original language
is called in to help. The translator saw before him the
derived stem of the verb, and rendered it as causative, for
the reason which will presently appear; but he was mistaken.
In each of the several verbs, Heb. and Aram., which
have this signification, "commit adultery," the simple stem
and the derived (intensive) stem are interchangeable, with
no difference in meaning. Moreover, the noun or pronoun
designating the person with whom the adultery is committed
is very likely to be appended to the verb as (or in
the manner of) the direct object. These facts are set forth
in every lexicon, and may be seen illustrated in Jer. 29:23
(Heb. and Targ.), Lev. 20:10, Prov. 6:32, Targ. Hos. 4:13,
and especially Targ. Job 36:20, an exact parallel to the phrase
in Mt. The true rendering here is, "he commits adultery
_with her_." But with whom?
The real source of the difficulty with the passage is now
brought plainly to light. The verse is defective, with two
words missing. The phrase, _"and marries another,"_ which
is found in 19:9, and in the parallels in Mk. and Lk., is
indispensable to the sense, and _must have been omitted by
accident from the Aram, text of 5:32._ The fact of the omission
gave the Grk. translator the best of reasons for his
rendering. For the cause of the accident, and the two missing
words, see p. 159.
Do you think the Peshi tta passages below were translated from Greek?
When the passages below were originally written, do you think they did, or didn't, mention Arameans?
Act 16:1 (Aramaic Peshi tta NT), https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/index.php/en/english-word-search
And he arrived at the city [of] Derbe and of Lystra. And there was a certain disciple there, whose name [was] Timothy, the son of a certain faithful Judean woman and *his father was an Aramean.*
KJV Then came he to Derbe and Lystra: and, behold, a certain disciple was there, named Timotheus, the son of a certain woman, which was a Jewess, and believed; but *his father was a Greek:*
Act 16:3 Paul wanted to take this [man] with him, so he took [and] circumcised him because of the Judeans that were in the place, for all of them *knew his father was an Aramean.*
KJV Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they *knew all that his father was a Greek.*
Act 19:10 And this continued [for] two years, until all who lived in Asia, *Judeans and Arameans,* heard the word of the LORD.
KJV And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both *Jews and Greeks.*
Act 19:17 And this was known by all the *Judeans and Arameans* who lived in Ephesus. And fear fell on all of them and the name of our Lord Jesus Christ was lifted up.
KJV And this was known to all the *Jews and Greeks* also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
Act 20:21 witnessing to the *Judeans and to the Arameans* concerning repentance towards God and the faith that is in our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV Testifying both to the *Jews, and also to the Greeks,* repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 21:28 crying out and saying, "Men of Israel, help! This is the man who is against our own people, teaching in every location against the law and against this place. And he has also *brought Arameans into the temple* and defiled this holy place."
KJV Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further *brought Greeks also into the temple,* and hath polluted this holy place.
1Co 1:22 because the Judeans ask for signs and the *Arameans seek wisdom.*
KJV For the Jews require a sign, and the *Greeks seek after wisdom:*
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to the Judeans, and *to the Arameans, foolishness.*
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and *unto the Greeks foolishness;*
1Co 1:24 But to those who are called, *Judeans and Arameans,* Christ [is] the power of God and the wisdom of God,
KJV But unto them which are called, both *Jews and Greeks,* Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Gal 2:3 Even Titus, who *was an Aramean* with me, was not compelled to be circumcised.
KJV But neither Titus, who was with me, *being a Greek,* was compelled to be circumcised:
Col 3:11 where there is *not Judean and Aramean,* not circumcision and uncircumcision, *not Greek and barbarian,* not servant and free[men], but Christ is all and in all men.
KJV Where there is *neither Greek nor Jew,* circumcision nor uncircumcision, *Barbarian, Scythian,* bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Do you think Col 3:11 originally mentioned:
"not Greek and barbarian"? "Barbarian, Scythian"?
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As originally written, do you think the NT spoke of: 'profane persons'? 'the nations'?
As originally written, do you think Acts 21:7 had: Ptolemais? Acu?
Norton, William. 1889. _A Translation, in English Daily Used, of the Peshi to-Syriac Text, and of the Received Greek Text, of Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, and 1 John, With an Introduction on the Peshi to-Syriac Text, and the Revised Greek Text of 1881_ (London: W. K. Bloom), ~140pp. What's below is from a Google books copy; the book is also at
https://archive.org/details/translationineng00nort
In the Introduction, pages l - li:
In the names of places, the Peshi to shows the same independence of the Greek. . . . . in Acts xxi. 7, the Gk. has, Ptolemais; the Syriac has, Acu.
Mr. Jer. Jones, in his work on the Canon, 1798, contends that the use of the name Acu, for Ptolemais, is a decisive proof that the Peshi to must have been made not far in time from A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was destroyed. (vol. i. p. 103.) He says that the most ancient name of this place among the Israelites was Aco, or Acco, Judges i. 31; that this name was afterwards changed to Ptolemais; that some say it had its new name from Ptolemy Philadelphus, about 250 B.C. He says it is certain that the old name Aco, was antiquated and out of use in the time of the Romans, and that the use of the old name Acu, in the Peshi to, can be accounted for in no other way, but by supposing that the persons for whom the version was made were more acquainted with it, than with the new name Ptolemais; that upon any other supposition it would have been absurd for him to have used Acu. He says, that until the destruction of Jerusalem, one may suppose that the Jews may have retained the old name Aco still, out of fondness for its antiquity; but, he says,
"how they, or any other part of Syria, could, after the Roman conquest, call it by a name different from the Romans, seems to me impossible to conceive. . . To suppose, therefore, that this translation, in which we meet with this old name, instead of the new one, was made at any great distance of time after the destruction of Jerusalem, is to suppose the translator to have substituted an antiquated name known to but few, for a name well known to all" (pp. 104, 105.)
Mr. Jones says that a similar proof that the Peshi to cannot have been made much after A.D. 70, is found in the fact that the Peshi to often calls the Gentiles, as the Jews were accustomed to do, _profane persons_, where the Greek calls them _the nations_, that is, the Gentiles. The Peshi to calls them profane, in Matt. vi. 7; x. 5; xviii.17; Mark vii. 26; John vii. 35; Acts xviii.4, 17; 1 Cor. v. 1; x. 20, 27; xii. 2; 1 Pet. iv.3. The expression is used, therefore, throughout the Peshi to. Mr. Jones says, that it shows that the writer was a Jew, for no other person would have called all the world profane; and that after the destruction of the temple, all Hebrew Christians must have seen that other nations were not to be reckoned unclean and profane in the Jewish sense, and that therefore this version must have been made either before, or soon after, A.D. 70. (On Canon, Vol. i., pp. 106-110.)
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Do you think the woman at Mark 7:26 and Mt 15:22 was: Greek? Syrophoenician? Canaanite?
version 1.2
7:26 Now the woman was a Greek, a Syrophoenician by race. She begged him that he would cast the demon out of her daughter.
15:21 Jesus went out from there, and withdrew into the region of Tyre and Sidon.
15:22 Behold, a Canaanite woman came out from those borders, and cried, saying, "Have mercy on me, Lord, you son of David! My daughter is severely demonized!"
Mark 7:25-28 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
"For immediately a certain woman whose daughter had an unclean rukha [spirit] heard about him [Yeshua], and she came (and) fell before his feet. Now that woman was kanapta [a heathen/ foreigner] from Phoenicia in Syria, and was entreating him to cast out the shada [shade/devil] from her daughter. . . . . even the dogs eat from under the tables the crumbs of the children.'"
Mt 15:21+ (based on Younan)
"And Yeshua went out from there and came to the border of Tsur and of Tsidon. And behold, a Canaanite woman from those borders came out while crying and saying, "Have mercy on me Mari [my Lord], the Son of Dawid. My daughter is seriously vexed by a shada. . . . even the dogs eat from the crumbs which fall from the tables of their masters and live."
As they were originally written, do you think Lk 21:24, Hebr 4:12, Hebr 11:34, Rev 1:16, and Rev 2:12 spoke of the 'mouth/mouths' of a sword? How about Rev 19:15?
From
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=mouth+sword&qs_version=YLT&limit=500
Genesis 34:26 and Hamor, and Shechem his son, they have slain by the mouth of the sword, and they take Dinah out of Shechem's house, and go out.
Exodus 17:13 and Joshua weakeneth Amalek and his people by the mouth of the sword.
Numbers 21:24 And Israel smiteth him by the mouth of the sword....
Luke 21:24 and they shall fall by the mouth of the sword, and shall be led captive to all the nations, and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by nations, till the times of nations be fulfilled.
Hebrews 11:34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the mouth of the sword, were made powerful out of infirmities, became strong in battle, caused to give way camps of the aliens.
1366. distomos
https://biblehub.com/greek/1366.htm
distomos: double-mouthed, two-edged
Original Word: δίστομος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: distomos
Phonetic Spelling: (dis'-tom-os)
Definition: double-mouthed, two-edged
Usage: (lit: twain-mouthed; hence: of a sword, as a drinker of blood), two-edged.
HELPS Word-studies
1366 dístomos – properly, two-mouthed (having two edges), like a "two-edged" sword with both sides of the blade sharpened to an edge; (figuratively) what penetrates at every point of contact, coming in or going out.
[A two-edged sword is an ideal defensive-offensive weapon and was known as "a drinker of blood" (Souter).]
....
Hebrews 4:12...
GRK: πᾶσαν μάχαιραν δίστομον καὶ διικνούμενος ...
Revelation 1:16...
GRK: αὐτοῦ ῥομφαία δίστομος ὀξεῖα ἐκπορευομένη ...
Revelation 2:12...
GRK: ῥομφαίαν τὴν δίστομον τὴν ὀξεῖαν
Looking at the parallel Greek for Revelation 19:15 at
https://biblehub.com/texts/revelation/19-15.htm
there is:
ῥομφαία ὀξεῖα δίστομος, ἵνα
ῥομφαία ὀξεῖα, ἵνα
ῥομφαία δίστομος ὀξεῖα, ἵνα
When it was originally written, do you think Revelation 19:15 had "δίστομος"? (i.e. 2-mouthed)
Do you think that that's something a native Greek speaker would use to describe a 2-edged sword?
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When Jesus originally spoke Luke 14:26, do you think he meant:
"put aside his father"? "hate... his father"?
Luke 14:26, http://dukhrana.com, https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/14-26.htm
(Lamsa) He who comes to me and does not put aside his father, and his mother, and his brothers, and his sisters, and his wife, and his children, and even his own life, he cannot be a disciple to me.
(KJV) If any man come to me, and hate [Greek: misei/ μισεῖ/ hates] not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
CAL, http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=sny+V%20&cits=all
1 to hate ... some of them love me, and some of them hate me. (a) fig.: (of inanimates) .... how much the eye hates something that falls into it. (b) as a performative : to divorce .... should... rise in the assembly tomorrow or any other time and say "I hereby divorce" my wife....
2 to be ugly....
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When it was originally written, do you think Acts 2:24 had:
"loosed the cords of Sheol"? "loosed the pains of death"?
Acts 2:24 (Young's Literal Translation)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts+2%3A24&version=YLT
whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it,
Acts 2:24, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) But Aloha raised him, and loosed the bands of Shiul, because it was not possible that he should be holden in Shiul.
(based on Younan) But Allaha loosed the cords of Sheol and raised him because it was not possible that he be held in it, in Sheol.[re: 'the cords': The Greek versions mistranslated this word as 'pain.' Cf. Jn 2:15 & 2 Samuel 22:6. -- PY]
John 2:15 And he made for himself a whip from cords, and drove out all of them from the temple....
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/2-24.htm
odinas ὠδῖνας agony .... thanatou θανάτου death
https://biblehub.com/greek/5604.htm
[5604 (ōdín) suggests intense suffering (similar to birth pain) – hence, "to suffer greatly, great pain" (L & N, 1, 24.87) like "a birth-pang, travail-pain; figuratively, extreme suffering" (A-S).]
....
Acts 2:24, after the Sept. who translated the words מָוֶת חֶבְלֵי by ὠδῖνες θανάτου, deriving the word חֶבְלֵי not, as they ought, from חֶבֶל, i. e. σχοινίον 'cord', but from חֵבֶל, ὠδίς, Psalm 17:5 (); Psalm 114:3 (); 2 Samuel 22:6.
YLT
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=death+cord&qs_version=YLT
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=cord+sheol&qs_version=YLT
2 Samuel 22:6 The cords of Sheol have surrounded me,
Before me have been the snares of death.
Psalm 18:4 Compassed me have cords of death,
And streams of the worthless make me afraid.
Psalm 18:5 Cords of Sheol have surrounded me,
Before me have been snares of death.
Psalm 116:3 Compassed me have cords of death,
And straits of Sheol have found me,
Distress and sorrow I find.
2 Samuel 22 (Brenton Septuagint)
https://biblehub.com/sep/2_samuel/22.htm
5 For the troubles of death compassed me,
the floods of iniquity amazed me:
6 the pangs of death surrounded me,
the agonies of death prevented me.
Psalm 18 (Brenton Septuagint)
https://biblehub.com/sep/psalms/18.htm
4 The pangs of death compassed me,
and the torrents of ungodliness troubled me exceedingly.
5 The pangs of hell came round about me:
the snares of death prevented me.
Psalm 116 (Brenton Septuagint)
https://biblehub.com/sep/psalms/116.htm
3 The pangs of death compassed me;
the dangers of hell found me:
I found affliction and sorrow.
From
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/acts/2-24.htm
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers ....
Having loosed the pains of death.—The word for "pains" is the same as that for "sorrows" in Matthew 24:8 : literally, travail-pangs. The phrase was not uncommon in the LXX. version, but was apparently a mistranslation of the Hebrew for "cords," or "bands," of death. ....
Barnes' Notes on the Bible ....
Having loosed the pains of death - The word "loosed," λύσας lusas, is opposed to bind, and is properly applied to a cord, or to anything which is bound. See Matthew 21:2; Mark 1:7. Hence, it means to free or to liberate, Luke 13:16; 1 Corinthians 7:27. ....
Vincent's Word Studies ....
Pains (ὠδῖνας)
The meaning is disputed. Some claim that Peter followed the Septuagint mistranslation of Psalm 18:5, where the Hebrew word for snares is rendered by the word used here, pains; and that, therefore, it should be rendered snares of death; the figure being that of escape from the snare of a huntsman. Others suppose that death is represented in travail, the birth-pangs ceasing with the delivery; i.e., the resurrection. This seems to be far-fetched, though it is true that in classical Greek the word is used commonly of birth-throes. It is better, perhaps, on the whole, to take the expression in the sense of the A. V., and to make the pains of death stand for death generally.
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When Luke 9:10-12 was originally written, do you think it spoke of a "deserted place" in verse 10 (compare verse 12)?
Luke 9:10-12 (HCSB)
10 When the apostles returned, they reported to Jesus all that they had done. He took them along and withdrew privately to a[a] town called Bethsaida. 11 When the crowds found out, they followed Him. He welcomed them, spoke to them about the kingdom of God, and cured those who needed healing.
12 Late in the day, the Twelve approached and said to Him, "Send the crowd away, so they can go into the surrounding villages and countryside to find food and lodging, because we are in a deserted place here."
Footnotes:
a: Other mss add _deserted place near a_
From https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/9-10.htm
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges....
_into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida_] There are here great variations in the MSS. and the best reading is _to a city called Bethsaida._
I used https://translate.google.com to translate the parallel Greek at https://biblehub.com/texts/luke/9-10.htm
and none of the lines mentioned a deserted place in verse 10. Calling Bethsaida deserted (see verses 9 and 12) is absurd.
The Darby Bible Translation had the decency to used brackets:
https://biblehub.com/luke/9-10.htm
And the apostles having returned related to him whatever they had done. And he took them and withdrew apart into [a desert place of] a city called Bethsaida.
From the Luke Commentary PDF at http://www.willker.de/wie/TCG/
Strange collection of all thinkable variants.
It is possible that ... was the original reading and that scribes felt the discrepancy between the "deserted place" mentioned in verse 12 and the .... It makes no sense to have a feeding in the city. So they changed the passage in various ways.
On the other hand it is also possible that the Byzantine reading is original. It has the same difficulty: Either there is a deserted place or it is the city Bethsaida. So the reading .... ("a desert place of a city called Bethsaida") is a contradiction or at least a difficulty. The other readings are then attempts to correct this.
Codex Zacynthius
https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Zacynthius
Luke 9:10 it has the textual variant εις πολιν καλουμενην Βηθσαιδα (to a city called Bethsaida), as do codices B, L, and 33; but later hand-written in the margin εις τοπον ερημον πολεως καλουμενην Βηδσαιδα (into a deserted place belonging to the city called Bethsaida).
Luke 9:10, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) And when the apostles returned, they showed Jeshu all that they had done. And he took them by themselves to a desert place of Bethtsaida.
(Murdock) And when the Legates returned, they narrated, to Jesus all they had done. And he took them aside, to the desert part of Bethsaida.
(Lamsa) When the apostles returned, they told Jesus everything which they had done. And he took them all alone to a lonely place in Bethsaida.
(KJV) And the apostles, when they were returned, told him all that they had done. And he took them, and went aside privately into a desert place belonging to the city called Bethsaida.
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Re: Mt 5:37, do you disagree with any of this Torrey?:
Charles Cutler Torrey, _The Four Gospels: A New Translation_, 331pp. On 291
https://archive.org/stream/fourgospels00torruoft/fourgospels00torruoft_djvu.txt
The Greek follows the Aram. exactly, word by word, but the result is mistranslation; the second occurrence of the "yea" or "nay" is in each case the predicate. James 5:12 has it right.
Mt 5:37 (YLT)
https://biblepic.com/matthew/5-37.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5-37.htm
but let your word be, Yes, Yes, No, No, and that which is more than these is of the evil.
Mt 5:37 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
Your 'yes' word should be but 'Yes,'
and 'no,' 'No.'
Anything that is more than these is from evil.
James 5:12 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/james/5-12.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/james/5-12.htm
And before all things, my brethren, do not swear, neither by the heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath,
and let your Yes be Yes,
and the No, No;
that under judgment ye may not fall.
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When Jesus first said Mt 11:19 ( = Lk 7:34-35), did he say wisdom is justified by her: children? deeds?
Matthew, version 1.3
11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'
But wisdom is justified by her children."
Luke
7:34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man, and a drunkard; a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'
7:35 Wisdom is justified by all her children."
Matthew 11:19 (NIV) The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'
But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."
When it was originally written, did 1 Timothy 2:15 say women would be saved through: childbearing? deeds?
1 Timothy 2:15 (NIV) But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Version 1.3, 1 Timothy
2:14 Adam wasn't deceived, but the woman, being deceived, has fallen into disobedience; 2:15 but she will be saved through her childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and sanctification with sobriety.
When John the Baptizer urged his listeners to 'produce fruit in keeping with repentance,' he urged people to cease doing evil deeds, and instead do good deeds. When it was originally written, do you think 1 Timothy 2:15 urged women 'working out their salvation with fear and trembling' to: have children? produce good fruit, i.e., do good deeds and have good thoughts?
1 Timothy 2:15 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/1_timothy/2.htm
But she lives by her children ['her children': Aramaic: YLDYH: her: birth; child; _fruit_], if they continue in faith and in love, in holiness and in modesty.
1Ti 2:15
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
(Aramaic Peshi tta NT) But she has life by way of her children ['her children': Aramaic: YLDYH: her: birth; child; _fruit_], if they remain in faith and in love and in holiness and in sobriety.
(KJV) Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
(Murdock) Yet she shall live by means of her children, if they continue in the faith, and in love, and in sanctity, and in chastity.
Ravensbruck Prayer
https://prayersofapilgrim.wordpress.com/2015/07/21/ravensbruck-prayer/
Written on a piece of wrapping paper found near the body of a dead child in Ravensbruck where 92,000 women and children died in the Holocaust.
O Lord, remember not only the men and women of good will
but also those of evil will.
But do not remember all the suffering they have inflicted upon us;
remember the fruits we have borne thanks to this suffering –
our comradeship,
our loyalty,
our humility,
our courage,
our generosity,
the greatness of heart which has grown out of all this;
and when they come to the judgement,
let all the fruits that we have borne be their forgiveness.
Amen.
http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=yld+N%20&cits=all
yld, yldˀ (yleḏ, yaldā) n.m. birth; child
1 birth Syr. P Gn16:2 : .... . P Mt1:18 : .... (a) birthday Syr. Bhchr 495:25 . (b) w. .... : procreation Syr. TB 2:28.9 : .... [=Greek παιδοποιίαν].
2 child Palmyrene, Qumran, JLAtg, Syr, Man. 4QEnGiantse03.1 : ] .... the children bent down before him. TgJ Is57:4 : ... you are rebellious children, the liar offspring. AphDem11.214:12 : .... a seal and a mark for his children. BhBS.E Econ 1.1.3 : .... children and parents. (a) coll.: generation, offspring Syr. phDem11.209:14 : .... the generation in the desert. AphDem14.245:4 .... P Lk3:7 .... Generation of vipers, who has told you to flee from the future wrath?.
3 agricultural product, fruit Syr. TDN.136:15 .... if one makes a firstling offering of fruit or first fruits of the harvest. P Lk22:18 .... I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.
"fruit" in the NT
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=YLT&quicksearch=fruit&begin=47&end=73&limit=500
Galatians 5:22-23
And the fruit of the Spirit is: Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law; ....
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When it was originally written, did Ephesians 5:11 speak of unfruitful:
works/deeds of darkness?
servants/slaves of darkness?
When Ephesians 5:12 refers to "things which are done of them in secret," who or what is "them"?
From
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=eph%205%3A11-12&version=YLT;KJV
Ephesians 5:11-12 (YLT)
11 and have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of the darkness and rather even convict,
12 for the things in secret done by them it is a shame even to speak of,
Ephesians 5:11-12 (KJV)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [Greek: elenchete/ ἐλέγχετε] them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Does it make sense to attempt "to convince with solid, compelling evidence":
works of darkness?
servants of darkness?
1651. elegchó Strong's Concordance
https://biblehub.com/greek/1651.htm
elegchó: to expose, convict, reprove
Original Word: ἐλέγχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: elegchó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-eng'-kho)
Definition: to expose, convict, reprove
Usage: (a) I reprove, rebuke, discipline, (b) I expose, show to be guilty.
HELPS Word-studies
1651 elégxō – properly, to convince with solid, compelling evidence, especially to expose (prove wrong, connect).
What sounds more appropriate:
"fellowship with deeds," or
"fellowship with slaves"?
_Spiritual Arts: Mastering the Disciplines for a Rich Spiritual Life_
https://books.google.com/
I love this definition of fellowship: "two fellows in a ship." When the ship goes up, they both go up; when the ship goes down, they both go down. There is a unique way those in the same boat can help each other out when trouble arises.
Ephesians 5 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/ephesians/5.htm
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
11 Neither should you fellowship with the Servants [Aramaic: ai-b-d-a: _servant/slave_; work] of darkness, because they have no fruit in them, but you should rebuke them.
12 For the thing that they do in secret is an abomination to mention.
http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=%28bd+N%20&cits=all
gotten to from http://dukhrana.com
servant, slave, royal subject
http://cal.huc.edu/getlex.php?coord=620402610&word=10
1 labor, work... (a) administration... (b) rite... (c) operation... (d) edification
2 result of work... (a) story... (b) creature, creation... (b.1) reality... (b.2) event... (c) thing... (d) wealth...
3 baggage, burden...
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When it was originally written, did Matthew 11:19 say wisdom is justified by her:
children? deeds?
When the parallel passage at Luke 7:35 was originally written, did it say wisdom is justified by her:
children? deeds?
===============================
Luke 7:35, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) But justified is wisdom of her sons.
(Murdock) But wisdom is justified by all her children.
(Lamsa) And yet wisdom is justified by all its works.
(KJV) But wisdom is justified of all her children.
Items below like "0nb" stand for Estrangelo font characters that are visible in the PDF, and get read left to right, e.g. "0nb" stands for the letter sequence "bna."
2006: Raphael L..., Was the New Testament Written in Greek?, pages 12-15
https://www.preteristarchive.com/bibliography_all-pdf-files/
4. Her children or her deeds? – Matthew 11:19 / Luke 7:35 / Colossians 3:6-7
This split word is quite amazing (and quite lengthy), as it not only points to an Aramaic original through Aramaic origins of Greek variants, but it also provides an Aramaic solution for apologists working on these verses, as well as exposing much corruption in the Greek texts. This is further complicated by the oddity that the variant is found in the wrong verse!
The KJV says:
Matthew 11:19 "The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children."
Luke 7:35 "But wisdom is justified of all her children."
The NASB says:
Matthew 11:19 ""The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.""
Luke 7:35 ""Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.""
Versions that say children (Greek = 'Teknon'), followers, sons or variations thereof, in Matthew 11:19:
DARBY, Douay-Rheims, Geneva, ISV, KJ21, KJV, LITV, MKJV, NKJV, Webster, Wycliffe, YLT.
Versions that say deeds (Greek = 'Ergon'), works, actions or a variation thereof, in Matthew 11:19:
ALT, ASV, BBE, CEV, ESV, Gods Word, Holman, NASB, NIV, NIV-UK, NLT, Rotherham, RSV, TEV, WE, Weymouth.
Versions that say children, followers, sons or variations thereof, in Luke 7:35:
ALT, ASV, BBE, CEV, DARBY, Douay-Rheims, ESV, Geneva, Holman, ISV, KJ21, KJV, LITV, MKJV, NASB, NIV, NIV-UK, NKJV, NLT, Rotherham, RSV, TEV, Webster, Weymouth, Wycliffe, YLT.
Versions that say deeds, works, actions or a variation thereof, in Luke 7:35:
Gods Word, WE.
In the Aramaic of the Peshi tta version of Luke, the word used is hynb (#3234 - NOTE: The Lexical Concordance is incorrect, it erroneously lists the root as 0rb when in reality, it is 0nb (# 23860 "to build".) What is the significance of this root, 0nb ('to build, works, etc.')? hynb was confused by the Greek translators of Luke for Ynb (#3231) which means 'son, children, offspring'. They thought the ending 'Heh' h indicated possession (see Table 1 Grammar section "Possessive Pronouns"), and that the root was Ynb, when in reality the root is 0nb with the ending 'Alaph' 0 dropped and the "Yodh-Heh" hy ending indicating possession. There you have it. A simple mistake that every beginner makes in Aramaic has caused this variant reading.
So the reading should not be "Wisdom is vindicated by her children" but "Wisdom is vindicated by her deeds." Proof of this comes from Scripture. Check Matthew 11:19 - the parallel passage, where Matthew used the more specific Aramaic word for "deeds" - hydb9 (#15080). So the Greek translator(s) of Aramaic Luke mistranslated hynbas "children", when it should have been "deeds." Don't be fooled into thinking that Luke himself made this mistake. It's easy to tell that Luke himself wrote in Aramaic and it was initially correct. How can we know this? Because the Greek manuscripts themselves disagree concerning this reading! It is a mark of translation.
The following Greek versions contain the correct reading - S, B, W, and f13, while the erroneous reading is contained in - B2 C D K L X Delta Theta Pi f1 28 33 565 700 892 1010 and, not surprisingly, BOTH of the so-called "Old-Syriac" manuscripts (Cureton & Sinaitic).
To elaborate...
Let's start off with the two roots in question:
* 0nb "Bna" - As a Verbal root it means To build, To work, as a noun (i.e., Binyan, Bnaya, etc.) it means Building, Work, etc.
* Ynb "Bnay" - means Offspring
Root 1
Using root 1, 0nb, if you wanted to say 'Her work, her build(ing), etc.' - following the rules of Table 2 in the Possessive Pronoun section of the Grammar - the ending 0 is dropped and a 3rd-person feminine suffix of hy is appended. You now have hynb- "Her works, deeds, build(ing), etc."
Root 2
Using root 2, Ynb, if you wanted to say 'Her offspring' - following the rules of Table 1 in the Possessive Pronoun section of the Grammar - a 3rd-person feminine suffix of h is appended. You now have hynb- "Her offspring."
Conclusion.
BOTH words just happen to be spelled the same way by chance! This is the problem the translators of Luke had. This word can mean either one, but I think it is clear from Matthew that the real reading is "deeds" (see Payne Smith, a Compendious Syriac Dictionary, and also compare the translation by Dr. George Lamsa).
So, to begin with, the verses in the Peshi tta agree. Both verses should read "deeds". But not only is this yet another contradiction solved by the Peshi tta, it is also a split word. In fact, since much of the variants in the Greek are caused by a false interpretation of Luke in the first place, and variants occur in both verses, it may be regarded as a "double split word"!
The NU United Bible Society's Greek text reads "ergon" meaning "works" while the Byzantine which reads "teknon", meaning "children". The "double split word" comes in as most of the Greek-based versions read "children" in Luke. The Alexandrian based versions then tend to read "deeds" in Matthew, while the LATER Byzantine-versions (while the usual Alexandrian versions are more recent than famous Byzantine versions like the KJV and Geneva, the Alexandrian texts are older) read "children" in Matthew. This is clearly a case of tampering with the text, in order to harmonize the readings in Matthew and Luke. Unfortunately for the "Byzantine Greek primacists", the wrong verse was edited! They should not have brought the Matthew reading in line with the corrupted Luke reading, but should have made the verse in Luke read "deeds" or "works"!
It is worth reiterating that the "Old Syriac" (an Aramaic version of the New Testament, which some believe is the true Aramaic original instead of the Peshi tta) contains the same error as the Greek, which lends more weight to the superiority of the Peshi tta, the original Aramaic. This is powerful proof that not only is the Aramaic Peshi tta superior to the Greek mss, but also that both the Alexandrian and Byzantine families of Greek mss, were both translated from the Peshi tta.
Note: A similar situation is found in the book of Colossians. Living in children or deeds? – Colossians 3:6-7 KJV: "For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them." That doesn't really make a whole lot of sense does it? The Greek has us walking INTO children and LIVING in them. From the Aramaic Peshi tta, we see that the walking and living was done in deeds of disobedience, not children of disobedience.
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When it was originally written, did Colossians 3:6 mean:
on the sons/children of disobedience?
against the deeds/works of disobedience?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=col+3%3A5-7&version=YLT;KJV
Colossians 3:5-7 (YLT)
5 Put to death, then, your members that [are] upon the earth -- whoredom, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and the covetousness, which is idolatry --
6 because of which things cometh the anger of God upon the sons of the disobedience,
7 in which also ye -- ye did walk once, when ye lived in them;
Colossians 3:5-7 (KJV)
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:5-7 (modified APNT, after looking at Jan Magiera's concordance and Lancaster/Lataster)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
https://www.preteristarchive.com/bibliography_all-pdf-files/ -- 2006: Raphael Lancaster, Was the New Testament Written in Greek?, ~pages 13-15
5 Therefore, put to death your members that are of the earth, fornication and uncleanness and passions and evil desire and greed, which is the reverence of idols.
6 For because of these-- against the deeds/works of disobedience-- the wrath of God will come.
7 And in these also, you were previously walking, when you were occupied with them.
When 2 Timothy 4:13 was originally written, did it mention:
book-carrier? cloak?
rolls of parchments? or merely 'parchments'?
2 Timothy 4:13, http://dukhrana.com
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_timothy/4-13.htm
(Etheridge) The case (for) books [Aramaic: B-I-Th K-Th-B-A: house (of) books] which I left at Troas with Karpos, when thou comest bring, and the books, and especially the roll of parchments.[Aramaic: KRKA d'MGLA: rolls of parchments]
(Murdock) And when thou comest, bring the bookcase, which I left at Troas with Carpus, and the books, but especially the roll of parchments.
(Lamsa) The book-carrier which I left at Tro'as with Car'pus, bring it with you when you come, and the books, especially the parchment scrolls.
(KJV) The cloke [Greek mss.: phailonēn/ φαιλόνην: cloak] that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments [Greek mss.: membranas/ μεμβράνας/ parchments].
Pulpit Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_timothy/4-13.htm
Verse 13. - Bring when thou comest for when thou comest bring with thee, A.V.; especially for but especially, A.V. The cloke (τὸν φελόνην, more properly written φαινόλην); the Latin paenula, the thick overcoat or cloke. Only here in the New Testament. Some think it was the bag in which the books and parchments were packed. The parchments (τὰς μεμβράνας). This, again, is a Latin word. It occurs only here in the New Testament.
Barnes' New Testament Notes
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/barnes/ntnotes.xix.iv.xiii.html?highlight=cloak#highlight
The doubt in regard to what is here meant, is as old as Chrysostom. He says, (Hom. x. on this epistle,) "that the word (felonhn) denotes a garment—to imation. But some understood by it a capsula, or bag— glwssokomon,"....
Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians, Timothy, Titus, and Philemon
Homily X.
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf113.v.iv.x.html
"And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus. The cloak that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments."
The word here translated "cloak" may mean a garment, or, as some say, a bag, in which the books were contained.
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When 2 Timothy 2:15 was originally written, did it speak of:
correctly cutting the word of truth?
correctly preaching the word of truth?
2Timothy 2:15, http://dukhrana.com
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_timothy/2-15.htm
(Etheridge) And be careful to establish thyself perfectly before Aloha, a workman without shame, preaching rightly the word of truth.
(Murdock) And study to present thyself before God, perfectly, a laborer who is not ashamed, one who correctly announceth the word of truth.
(Lamsa) Strive to conduct yourself perfectly before God, as a soldier without reproach and one who preaches straightforwardly the word of truth.
(KJV) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing [rightly dividing: Greek: ὀρθοτομοῦντα/ orthotomounta/ straight cut/ cut straight] the word of truth.
3718. orthotomeó
https://biblehub.com/greek/3718.htm
orthotomeó: to cut straight
Original Word: ὀρθοτομέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: orthotomeó
Phonetic Spelling: (or-thot-om-eh'-o)
Definition: to cut straight
Usage: I cut straight; met: I handle correctly, teach rightly.
HELPS Word-studies
3718 orthotoméō (from temnō, "to cut" and 3717 /orthós, "straight") – properly, cut straight (on a straight line), i.e. "rightly divide" (correctly apportion).
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When it was originally written, do you think 2 Timothy 3:16 spoke of:
God-breathed writing?
writing written by the Spirit?
Greek mss. lack an "is" in the examined section; where do you think an "is" belongs?
Literal rendering of the Aramaic, looking at https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
Every k-th-b (writing; scripture) d'b'R-u-kh-a (that by the-Spirit) a-th-k-th-b (was written) profitable is for teaching
Literal rendering of the Greek, based on https://biblehub.com/text/2_timothy/3-16.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1124.htm
Every γραφὴ (graphē: writing; Scripture) θεόπνευστος (theopneustos: God-breathed) and profitable for instruction
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_timothy/3-16.htm
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God.—Although this rendering is grammatically possible, the more strictly accurate translation, and the one adopted by nearly all the oldest and most trustworthy versions (for example, the Syriac and the Vulgate), and by a great many of the principal expositors in all ages (for instance, by such teachers as Origen, Theodoret, Grotius, Luther, Meyer, Ellicott, and Alford), runs as follows: "Every scripture inspired by God is also profitable for doctrine, for reproof," &c.
2 Peter 1:21
https://biblehub.com/2_peter/1-21.htm
New King James Version
for prophecy never came by the will of man,
but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The prophecy came not by the will of man in the ancient times,
but when holy men of God spoke, being compelled by the Holy Spirit.
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When Philemon 1:12 was originally written, do you think it did, or didn't, mention bowels?
Philemon 1:12, http://dukhrana.com
https://biblehub.com/text/philemon/1-12.htm
(Etheridge) and I have sent him to thee. But thou, as (one) who is my offspring, so receive him.
(Murdock) And receive thou him, as one begotten by me.
(Lamsa) I send him to you again: welcome him as my own boy:
(KJV) Whom I have sent again: thou therefore receive him, that is, mine own bowels: [Greek: σπλάγχνα/ splanchna/ the inward parts-- heart, liver, lungs, etc.]
https://biblehub.com/philemon/1-12.htm
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And I sent him to you, so receive him as my son.
Young's Literal Translation
whom I did send again, and thou him (that is, my own bowels) receive,
4698. splagchnon
https://biblehub.com/greek/4698.htm
splagchnon: the inward parts (heart, liver, lungs, etc.), fig. the emotions
Original Word: σπλάγχνα, ων, τά
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: splagchnon
Phonetic Spelling: (splangkh'-non)
Definition: the inward parts (heart, liver, lungs, etc.), the emotions
Usage: the inward parts; the heart, affections, seat of the feelings.
HELPS Word-studies
4698 splágxnon – properly, the internal organs ("viscera"); (figuratively) "gut-level compassion" (visceral feelings); the capacity to feel deep emotions (sympathy, empathy, etc.).
MacLaren's Expositions
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/philemon/1-12.htm
II. The next point in these verses is Paul's loving identification of himself with Onesimus.
The A.V. here follows another reading from the R.V.; the former has "thou therefore receive him, that is, mine own bowels." The additional words are unquestionably inserted without authority in order to patch a broken construction. The R.V. cuts the knot in a different fashion by putting the abrupt words, "himself that is, my very own heart," under the government of the preceding verb. But it seems more probable that the Apostle began a new sentence with them, which he meant to have finished as the A.V. does for him, but which, in fact, got hopelessly upset in the swift rush of his thoughts, and does not right itself grammatically till the "receive him" of v. 17.
In any case the main thing to observe is the affectionate plea which he puts in for the cordial reception of Onesimus. Of course "mine own bowels" is simply the Hebrew way of saying "mine own heart." We think the one phrase graceful and sentimental, and the other coarse. A Jew did not think so, and it might be difficult to say why he should. It is a mere question of difference in localizing certain emotions.
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When Titus 2:4 was originally written, did it speak of training philandrous individuals?
And training philandrous individuals to be loving children?
Titus 2:4
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/titus/2-4.htm
so that they may train the young φιλάνδρους [philandrous: lovers of men; lovers of husbands]
to be φιλοτέκνους [philoteknous: loving children]
https://biblehub.com/greek/435.htm
Original Word: ἀνήρ, ἀνδρός, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine ....
Definition: a man
Usage: a male human being; a man, husband.
interlinear to Aramaic Tit 2:4
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
those who are younger so that they love their husbands and their children
The Aramaic speaks of: their baals, i.e. their lords/husbands,
and speaks of: their children.
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Do you consider "mouth to mouth" as used in 2 John and 3 John to be:
ordinary Greek phraseology? semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) phraseology?
Do you consider "face to face": ordinary Greek phraseology? semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) phraseology?
2 John 1:12 (YLT), https://biblehub.com/ylt/2_john/1.htm
Many things having to write to you, I did not intend through paper and ink, but I hope to come unto you, and speak mouth to mouth, that our joy may be full;
3 John 1:14 (YLT), https://biblehub.com/ylt/3_john/1.htm
and I hope straightway to see thee, and mouth to mouth we shall speak. Peace to thee! salute thee do the friends; be saluting the friends by name.
4750. stoma
https://biblehub.com/greek/4750.htm
stoma: the mouth
Original Word: στόμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: stoma
Phonetic Spelling: (stom'-a)
Definition: the mouth
"face to face"
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch="face+to+face"&qs_version=YLT&limit=500
Deuteronomy 5:4 Face to face hath Jehovah spoken with you, in the mount, out of the midst of the fire;
Judges 6:22 And Gideon seeth that He [is] a messenger of Jehovah, and Gideon saith, `Alas, Lord Jehovah! because that I have seen a messenger of Jehovah face to face!'
Ezekiel 20:35 And I have brought you in unto the wilderness of the peoples, And have been judged with you there face to face.
Acts 25:16 unto whom I answered, that it is not a custom of Romans to make a favour of any man to die, before that he who is accused may have the accusers face to face, and may receive place of defence in regard to the charge laid against [him].
1 Corinthians 13:12 for we see now through a mirror obscurely, and then face to face; now I know in part, and then I shall fully know, as also I was known;
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Do you consider the phrase "the fruit of lips" used in Hebrews 13:15 to be:
ordinary Greek phraseology? semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) phraseology?
(YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=fruit+mouth&qs_version=YLT&limit=25
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=fruit+lips&version=YLT&resultspp=25
Proverbs 12:14 From the fruit of the mouth [is] one satisfied [with] good,
And the deed of man's hands returneth to him.
Proverbs 13:2 From the fruit of the mouth a man eateth good,
And the soul of the treacherous -- violence.
Proverbs 18:20 From the fruit of a man's mouth is his belly satisfied,
[From the] increase of his lips he is satisfied.
Isaiah 57:19 Producing the fruit of the lips, 'Peace, peace,' to the far off, and to the near, And I have healed him, said Jehovah.
Hosea 14:2 Take with you words, and turn to Jehovah, Say ye unto Him: 'Take away all iniquity, and give good, And we do render the fruit of our lips.
Hebrews 13:15 through him, then, we may offer up a sacrifice of praise always to God, that is, the fruit of lips, giving thanks to His name;
5491. cheilos
https://biblehub.com/greek/5491.htm
cheilos: a lip, an edge
Original Word: χεῖλος, ους, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: cheilos
Phonetic Spelling: (khi'-los)
Definition: a lip, an edge
Usage: a lip, mouth, shore, edge, brink; meton: language, dialect.
Do you consider 'taking/receiving faces/countenances' to be typical of:
Greek thought? Semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) thought?
Matthew 22:16, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) And they sent to him their disciples with (certain) of the household of Herodes, saying to him, Doctor, we know that thou art resolutely true, and (that) the way of Aloha in truth thou teachest; neither carriest thou fear for man, for thou acceptest not the person of men.[Faces of men.]
(Murdock) And they sent to him their disciples, with domestics of Herod, and said to him: Teacher, we know that thou art veracious, and teachest the way of God with truth, regardless of man, for thou hast no respect of persons.
(KJV) And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
Acts 10:34
(Etheridge) BUT Shemun opened his mouth, and said, In truth I comprehend that Aloha is no respecter of persons:
(KJV) Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Romans 2:11 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/romans/2-11.htm
For there is no acceptance of faces with God,
Ephesians 6:9
(Murdock) Also ye masters, do ye so to your servants. Forgive them a fault; because ye know, that ye have a master in heaven; and there is no respect of persons with him.
(KJV) And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
Colossians 3:25
(Etheridge) But he who injureth is recompensed as he had injured, and there is no acceptance of persons. [Faces.]
(Murdock) But the delinquent will receive a recompense, according to the delinquency; and there is no respect of persons.
(KJV) But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
James 2:1
(Etheridge) My brethren, do not hold with acceptance of faces the faith of the glory of our Lord Jeshu Meshiha.
(Murdock) My brethren, hold ye not the faith of the glory of our Lord Jesus the Messiah, with a respect to persons.
(KJV) My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
Do you consider the phrase 'face of X' denoting 'appearance of X' to be typical of:
Greek thought? Semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) thought?
Do you consider the phrase 'face of X' denoting 'presence of X' to be typical of:
Greek thought? Semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) thought?
Do you consider the phrase 'face of X' denoting 'person of X' to be typical of:
Greek thought? Semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) thought?
4382. prosópolémpsia
https://biblehub.com/greek/4382.htm
prosópolémpsia: respect of persons
Original Word: προσωποληψία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: prosópolémpsia
Phonetic Spelling: (pros-o-pol-ape-see'-ah)
Definition: respect of persons
Usage: partiality, favoritism.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from prosópolémptés
Definition
respect of persons
NASB Translation
partiality (3), personal favoritism (1).
....
Romans 2:11 ....
Ephesians 6:9 ....
Colossians 3:25 ....
James 2:1 ....
4381. prosópolémptés
https://biblehub.com/greek/4381.htm
prosópolémptés: an accepter of a face, i.e. a respecter of persons
Original Word: προσωπολήπτης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: prosópolémptés
Phonetic Spelling: (pros-o-pol-ape'-tace)
Definition: an accepter of a face, a respecter of persons
Usage: one who shows partiality.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from prosópon and lambanó
Definition
an accepter of a face, i.e. a respecter of persons
NASB Translation
one to show partiality (1), show partiality (1).
....
Acts 10:34
4383. prosópon
https://biblehub.com/greek/4383.htm
prosópon: the face
Original Word: πρόσωπον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: prosópon
Phonetic Spelling: (pros'-o-pon)
Definition: the face
Usage: the face, countenance, surface.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from pros and óps (an eye, face)
Definition
the face
2983. lambanó
https://biblehub.com/greek/2983.htm
Strong's Concordance
lambanó: to take, receive
Original Word: λαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: lambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (lam-ban'-o)
Definition: to take, receive
Usage: (a) I receive, get, (b) I take, lay hold of.
HELPS Word-studies
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983 /lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.
Snips throughout:
4383. πρόσωπον (prosópon)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4383.htm
Matthew 6:16 N-ANP
NAS: [do], for they neglect their appearance so
KJV: their faces, that
INT: indeed the appearance of them so that
Matthew 16:3 N-ANS
NAS: to discern the appearance of the sky,
KJV: discern the face of the sky;
INT: the indeed appearance of the sky
Matthew 22:16 N-ANS
KJV: thou regardest not the person of men.
INT: you look on [the] appearance of men
Mark 12:14 N-ANS
INT: you look on [the] appearance of men but
Luke 2:31 N-ANS
NAS: You have prepared in the presence of all
KJV: before the face of all
INT: you have prepared before [the] face of all the
Luke 12:56 N-ANS
NAS: to analyze the appearance of the earth
KJV: ye can discern the face of the sky and
Luke 20:21 N-ANS
KJV: acceptest thou the person [of any], but
Acts 2:28 N-GNS
NAS: OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.'
KJV: with thy countenance.
Acts 3:13 N-ANS
NAS: and disowned in the presence of Pilate,
Acts 3:20 N-GNS
INT: of refreshing from [the] presence of the Lord
Acts 5:41 N-GNS
NAS: they went on their way from the presence of the Council,
KJV: from the presence of the council,
INT: rejoicing from [the] presence of the Council
Acts 6:15 N-ANS
NAS: his face like the face of an angel.
KJV: as it had been the face of an angel.
Acts 13:24 N-GNS
INT: John before [the] face the coming
Acts 20:25 N-ANS
KJV: shall see my face no more.
Acts 25:16 N-ANS
INT: being accused to face may have the
1 Corinthians 13:12 N-ANS
NAS: dimly, but then face to face; now
2 Corinthians 2:10 N-DNS
GRK: ὑμᾶς ἐν προσώπῳ Χριστοῦ
NAS: [I did it] for your sakes in the presence of Christ,
KJV: [forgave I it] in the person of Christ;
2 Corinthians 4:6 N-DNS
KJV: of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:12 N-DNS
NAS: who take pride in appearance and not in heart.
2 Corinthians 8:24 N-ANS
NAS: Therefore openly before the churches,
INT: show you in face of the churches
2 Corinthians 10:1 N-ANS
NAS: am meek when face to face with you, but bold
KJV: who in presence [am] base among
INT: who as to appearance indeed [am] humble
2 Corinthians 10:7 N-ANS
KJV: things after the outward appearance? If any man
Galatians 1:22 N-DNS
NAS: I was [still] unknown by sight to the churches
INT: unknown by face to the churches
Galatians 2:6 N-ANS
KJV: no man's person: ) for they who seemed
Galatians 2:11 N-ANS
NAS: I opposed him to his face, because
Colossians 2:1 N-ANS
INT: have seen the face of me in
1 Thessalonians 2:17 N-DNS
NAS: while-- in person, not in spirit--
INT: time of an hour in face not in heart
1 Thessalonians 2:17 N-ANS
NAS: desire to see your face.
1 Thessalonians 3:10 N-ANS
NAS: that we may see your face, and may complete
2 Thessalonians 1:9 N-GNS
NAS: away from the presence of the Lord
Hebrews 9:24 N-DNS
KJV: to appear in the presence of God
James 1:11 N-GNS
NAS: and the beauty of its appearance is destroyed;
1 Peter 3:12 N-NNS
NAS: ATTEND TO THEIR PRAYER, BUT THE FACE OF THE LORD
KJV: but the face of the Lord
Jude 1:16 N-ANP
NAS: flattering people for the sake
KJV: great swelling [words], having men's persons in admiration
Revelation 4:7 N-ANS
KJV: beast had a face as a man,
Revelation 6:16 N-GNS
NAS: on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits
KJV: from the face of him that sitteth
Revelation 12:14 N-GNS
NAS: a time, from the presence of the serpent.
KJV: a time, from the face of the serpent.
Revelation 20:11 N-GNS
NAS: upon it, from whose presence earth
KJV: from whose face the earth and
Revelation 22:4 N-ANS
NAS: they will see His face, and His name
KJV: they shall see his face; and his
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Colossians 2:23 provides an instance where the translation of an Aramaic reference to 'faces' _doesn't_ turn out well in the present-day Greek. The KJV puts 'shew,' but as far as I know, there aren't any Greek textual variants that justify that.
(KJV) Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Perhaps early Greek mss. had a correct translation of the Aramaic, only to become corrupted at some point.
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/colossians/2-23.htm
οὐκ ἐν τιμῇ τινί, πρὸς πλησμονὴν τῆς σαρκός. These words, which constitute this verse one of the most difficult in the New Testament, have received very various explanations. .... Findlay's view, "not in any honour, against surfeiting of the flesh," not only yields a thought most obscurely expressed, but must be rejected because of its translation of πρὸς. All these interpretations are open to serious if not fatal objections. It is therefore not unlikely that Hort is right in the suspicion, shared also by Haupt, that we have to do here with a primitive corruption, for which no probable emendation has been suggested. He thinks that the text of the Epistle, and especially of the second chapter, was badly preserved in ancient times.
The Greek for Colossians 2:23 lacks any mention of face/appearance.
using interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/colossians/2-23.htm
which are logon/λόγον
indeed having sophias/σοφίας/of-wisdom in ethelothrēskia/ἐθελοθρησκίᾳ/self-imposed-worship
and tapeinophrosynē/ταπεινοφροσύνῃ/humility and apheidia/ἀφειδίᾳ/harsh-treatment sōmatos/σώματος/of-body
not of honor a certain against
plēsmonēn/πλησμονὴν/indulgence of the sarkos/σαρκός/flesh.
Some have implausibly claimed that the logon/λόγον there means 'appearance.' Searching for "seem" amidst 130 instances of that exact word yields 0 translations into "seem." Searching for "appearance" amidst the 130 instances of λόγον yields only 1 translation into "appearance," which the interlinear puts, but the NAS renders "matters":
λόγον (logon) — 130 Occurrences
https://biblehub.com/greek/logon_3056.htm
Colossians 2:23 N-AMS
GRK: ἅτινά ἐστιν λόγον μὲν ἔχοντα
NAS: These are matters which have,
INT: which are an appearance indeed having
Doing a 'find' search on the 331 occurrences of
3056. λόγος (logos)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_3056.htm
and its variations for translations into:
'seem' and 'appearance'
yields nothing additional. Others have noted that ascribing the meaning of "appearance" to λόγον seems unjustified:
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/colossians/2-23.htm
Colossians 2:23. ἅτινα: i.e., which commandments and teachings.—λόγον σοφίας. This may be taken in the sense of "a word of wisdom," but with no inner truth. Others translate "appearance of wisdom" (Beng., De W. and others). But this seems not to be a meaning of λόγ.
....
Other renderings of λόγον - "show" (English A.V., Bengel, De Wette), "ground" or "reason" (Vulgate, Klopper), "reputation" (Meyer, Alford, Ellicott, Lightfoot) - are partly doubtful or exceptional in point of usage....
The original Aramaic of the verse has two locations from which 'appear/ appearance' can be derived:
Col 2:23 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
and they *appear* to have a word of wisdom *with a face of humility* and of the reverence of God and of depriving the body, not about anything of value, but rather about those [things] that are a custom of the flesh.
"with a face of" i.e. 'with an appearance of': Aramaic: b'p-r-tz-u-p
Colossians 2:23 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/colossians/2-23.htm
And they appear to have in them a word of wisdom in the appearance of humility and worship of God and without sparing the body, not in things of honor, but in those things which are physical needs.
Colossians 2:23
(Etheridge) and appear to have in them a reason of wisdom, with the look of humility and the fear of Aloha, (as) not sparing the body, (yet) not in that which is (really) of value, but in those (things) whose use pertains to the flesh.
(Murdock) And they seem to have a kind of wisdom, in a show of humility, and of the fear of God, and of not sparing the body; not in any thing of excellence, but in things subservient to the body.
Lamsa went in a different direction by translating the Aramaic 'face' as 'person':
(Lamsa) And it appears there is some word of wisdom in these things when presented by the humble person in fear of God; provided they disregard the things of the flesh, not those things which are honourable but only those things which satisfy the pleasure of the flesh.
The Greek mss. lack 'God,' and the Aramaic 'worship/fear/reverence of God' + the Aramaic 'face' apparently became in the Greek translation-- oddly enough-- ethelothrēskia/ἐθελοθρησκίᾳ/self-imposed-worship.
ἐθελοθρησκίᾳ
https://biblehub.com/greek/ethelothre_skia_1479.htm
ἐθελοθρησκίᾳ (ethelothrēskia) — 1 Occurrence
Colossians 2:23 N-DFS
GRK: σοφίας ἐν ἐθελοθρησκίᾳ καὶ ταπεινοφροσύνῃ
NAS: of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement
KJV: in will worship, and
INT: of wisdom in voluntary worship and humility
1479. ethelothréskia
https://biblehub.com/greek/1479.htm
ethelothréskia: self-willed (arbitrary and unwarranted) piety
Original Word: ἐθελοθρησκεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ethelothréskia
Phonetic Spelling: (eth-el-oth-race-ki'-ah)
Definition: self-willed (arbitrary and unwarranted) piety
Usage: arbitrary worship, self-imposed worship.
HELPS Word-studies
1479 ethelothrēskeía (from 2309 /thélō, "desire" and 2356 /thrēskeía, "religion")
2309. theló
https://biblehub.com/greek/2309.htm
theló: to will, wish
Original Word: θέλω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: theló
Phonetic Spelling: ( eth-el'-o,)
Definition: to will, wish
Usage: I will, wish, desire, am willing, intend, design.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2309 thélō (a primitive verb, NAS dictionary) – to desire (wish, will), wanting what is best (optimal) because someone is ready and willing to act.
2309 /thélō ("to desire, wish") is commonly used of the Lord extending His "best-offer" to the believer – wanting (desiring) to birth His persuasion (faith) in them which also empowers, manifests His presence etc. See 2307 (thelēma).
2356. thréskeia
https://biblehub.com/greek/2356.htm
thréskeia: religion
Original Word: θρησκεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: thréskeia
Phonetic Spelling: (thrace-ki'-ah)
Definition: religion
Usage: (underlying sense: reverence or worship of the gods), worship as expressed in ritual acts, religion.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from a derivation of thréskos
Definition
religion
NASB Translation
religion (3), worship (1).
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James 3:17 provides an instance where an Aramaic reference to 'faces' turned out OK in the Greek translation:
James 3:17, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) But the wisdom that is from above is pure, and full of peace, and meekness, and obedience, and full of mercies and good fruits, and is without division, and faces accepteth not.
(Murdock) But the wisdom which is from above, is pure, and full of peace, and mild, and submissive, and full of compassion and of good fruits, and without partiality, and without respect of persons.
(Lamsa) But the wisdom that is from above is first pure then full of peace, and gentle, obedient, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
(KJV) But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
James 3:17, using interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/james/3-17.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/adiakritos_87.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/87.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1252.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/anypokritos_505.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/505.htm
the But the from above sophia/σοφία/wisdom proton/πρῶτον/first indeed pure is, then eirēnikē/εἰρηνική/peaceable,
gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and karpōn/καρπῶν/of-fruits good, adiakritos/ἀδιάκριτος, anypokritos/ἀνυπόκριτος.
adiakritos/ἀδιάκριτος: from alpha (as a neg. prefix) and diakrinó: 1252 diakrínō (from 1223 /diá, "thoroughly back-and-forth," which intensifies 2919 /krínō, "to judge") – properly, investigate (judge) thoroughly – literally, judging "back-and-forth" which can either (positively) refer to close-reasoning (descrimination) or negatively "over-judging" (going too far, vacillating). Only the context indicates which sense is meant.
anypokritos/ἀνυπόκριτος: 505 anypókritos (an adjective, derived from alpha-privative 1 /A "not" and 5271 /hypokrínomai, "to act as a hypocrite") – properly, not a phony ("put on"), describing sincere behavior free from hidden agendas (selfish motives) – literally, "without hypocrisy" (unfeigned).
Do you consider "flaming fire," or for that matter, "the fire of flame," a Semiticism?
In 2 Thess 1:7-8, is it: "with his mighty angels in flaming fire"?
Or is it: "in flaming fire giving vengeance to those who don't know God"?
Second Thessalonians, version 1.3
1:6 Since it is a righteous thing
with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you, 1:7 and to give relief to you
who are afflicted with us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his
mighty angels in flaming fire, 1:8 giving vengeance to those who don't know God,
and to those who don't obey the Good News of our Lord Jesus, 1:9 who will pay
the penalty: coming age destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory
of his might, 1:10 when he comes to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired
among all those who have believed (because our testimony to you was believed)
in that day.
Matthew Poole's Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_thessalonians/1-8.htm
As also in flaming fire, or the fire of flame, a Hebraism. Fire is the most dreadful of all the elements, especially flaming, to denote the great wrath of that day, and its breaking forth, as fire when it flameth. God's wrath is often expressed in Scripture by fire, Deu 32:22 Psalm 97:3, &c.; Jeremiah 21:12 Hebrews 10:27; and as that which attendeth the great day of Christ, Daniel 7:10 1 Corinthians 3:13 2 Peter 3:7,12.
"flaming fire" in the YLT
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch="flaming+fire"&qs_version=YLT
Psalm 104:4 Making His messengers -- the winds, His ministers -- the flaming fire.
Psalm 105:32 He hath made their showers hail, A flaming fire [is] in their land.
Isaiah 4:5 Then hath Jehovah prepared Over every fixed place of Mount Zion, And over her convocations, A cloud by day, and smoke, And the shining of a flaming fire by night, That, over all honour a safe-guard,
Lamentations 2:3 He hath cut off in the heat of anger every horn of Israel, He hath turned backward His right hand From the face of the enemy, And He burneth against Jacob as a flaming fire, It hath devoured round about.
Hosea 7:6 For they have drawn near, As an oven [is] their heart, In their lying in wait all the night sleep doth their baker, Morning! he is burning as a flaming fire.
2 Thessalonians 1:8 in flaming fire, giving vengeance to those not knowing God, and to those not obeying the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ;
"flame of fire" in YLT
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch="flame+of+fire"&qs_version=YLT
Exodus 3:2 and there appeareth unto him a messenger of Jehovah in a flame of fire, out of the midst of the bush, and he seeth, and lo, the bush is burning with fire, and the bush is not consumed.
Isaiah 66:15 For, lo, Jehovah in fire cometh, And as a hurricane His chariots, To refresh in fury His anger, And His rebuke in flames of fire.
Daniel 7:9 `I was seeing till that thrones have been thrown down, and the Ancient of Days is seated, His garment as snow [is] white, and the hair of his head [is] as pure wool, His throne flames of fire, its wheels burning fire.
Joel 2:5 As the noise of chariots, on the tops of the mountains they skip, As the noise of a flame of fire devouring stubble, As a mighty people set in array for battle.
Acts 7:30 and forty years having been fulfilled, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sinai a messenger of the Lord, in a flame of fire of a bush,
Hebrews 1:7 and unto the messengers, indeed, He saith, 'Who is making His messengers spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire;'
Revelation 1:14 and his head and hairs white, as if white wool -- as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire;
Revelation 2:18 'And to the messenger of the assembly of Thyatira write: These things saith the Son of God, who is having his eyes as a flame of fire, and his feet like to fine brass;
Revelation 19:12 and his eyes [are] as a flame of fire, and upon his head [are] many diadems -- having a name written that no one hath known, except himself,
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Do you consider 'serving for the eye' to be typical of:
Greek thought? Semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) thought?
Ephesians 6:5-6 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-5.htm
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-6.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/ephesians/6-5.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/ephesians/6-6.htm
The servants! obey the masters according to the flesh with fear and trembling, in the simplicity of your heart [Greek: kardias/ καρδίας], as to the Christ;
not with eye-service [Greek: ophthalmodoulian/ ὀφθαλμοδουλίαν] as men-pleasers, but as servants of the Christ, doing the will of God out of soul,[Greek: psychēs/ ψυχῆς]
Colossians 3:22-23 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/colossians/3-22.htm
https://biblehub.com/colossians/3-23.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/colossians/3-22.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/colossians/3-23.htm
The servants! obey in all things those who are masters according to the flesh, not in eye-service [Greek: ophthalmodouliais/ ὀφθαλμοδουλίαις] as men-pleasers, but in simplicity of heart [Greek: kardias/ καρδίας], fearing God;
and all, whatever ye may do -- out of soul [Greek: psychēs/ ψυχῆς] work -- as to the Lord, and not to men,
Colossians 3:22, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) Servants, obey in every thing your masters according to the flesh, not in the sight of the eye (only), as those who please men, but from a simple heart, and in the fear of the Lord.
Colossians 3:23
(Murdock) And whatever ye do, do it with your whole soul, as unto our Lord, and not as to men:
Ephesians 6:6-7 (Etheridge)
not in the sight of the eyes, as if you were pleasing men (only), but as the servants of Meshiha who do the will of Aloha.
And serve them from all your soul, in love, as unto our Lord, and not as unto men;
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When it was originally written, do you believe Ephesians 1:18 literally said:
'eyes of your heart'?
'eyes of your understanding'?
Do you consider 'eyes of your heart' more at home in: Greek thought? Semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) thought?
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/1-18.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/ephesians/1-18.htm
https://biblehub.com/texts/ephesians/1-18.htm
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
Berean Literal Bible
the eyes your of heart [Greek: kardias/ καρδίας] being enlightened, in order for you to know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And that the eyes of your hearts [Aramaic: d'l-b-u-th-k-u-n: of your hearts] would be enlightened, that you will know what is the hope of his calling and what is the wealth of the glory of his inheritance in The Holy Ones,
Young's Literal Translation
the eyes of your understanding [Greek: διανοίας] being enlightened, for your knowing what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
1271. dianoia
https://biblehub.com/str/greek/1271.htm
dianoia: the mind, disposition, thought
Original Word: διάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: dianoia
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: the mind, disposition, thought
Usage: understanding, intellect, mind, insight.
HELPS Word-studies
1271 diánoia (from 1223 /diá, "thoroughly, from side-to-side," which intensifies 3539 /noiéō, "to use the mind," from 3563 /noús, "mind")
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/ephesians/1-18.htm
18. understanding—The oldest manuscripts, versions, and Fathers, read "heart."
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When James 5:4 and when Romans 9:29 were originally written, do you think they did, or didn't, have something representing 'YHWH'?
James 5:4 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/text/james/5-4.htm
https://biblehub.com/james/5-4.htm
lo, the reward of the workmen, of those who in-gathered your fields, which hath been fraudulently kept back by you -- doth cry out, and the exclamations of those who did reap into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth have entered;
[Greek: Κυρίου/Kyriou Σαβαὼθ/Sabaōth: of [the] Lord of Hosts]
4519. sabaóth
https://biblehub.com/greek/4519.htm
sabaóth: Sabaoth, i.e. armies
Original Word: σαβαώθ
Part of Speech: Hebrew Form (Indclinable)
Transliteration: sabaóth
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-ah-owth')
Definition: Sabaoth, armies
Usage: hosts, armies.
HELPS Word-studies
4519 sabaṓth (the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew term, bā̓āh, OT 6635) – host(s), an innumerable throng (limitless company). 4519 /sabaṓth ("the Lord of hosts") only occurs in Ro 9:29 and Js 4:5, and correlates to the familiar phrase, "the Lord of hosts" in the OT and LXX.
Jam 5:4 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
Behold, the wage of the laborers who have reaped your lands, which you have withheld, cries out. And the crying of the reapers has entered the ears of the LORD of Hosts [Aramaic: d'Mrya Tz-b-a-o-th: of Master YHWH of hosts]
Romans 9:29 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/romans/9-29.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/9-29.htm
and according as Isaiah saith before, 'Except the Lord of Sabaoth did leave to us a seed, as Sodom we had become, and as Gomorrah we had been made like.'
[Greek: Kyrios/Κύριος Sabaōth/Σαβαὼθ: Lord of hosts]
Rom 9:29 (Murdock)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
And according to what Isaiah had before said: If the Lord of hosts had not favored us with a residue, we had been as Sodom, and had been like Gomorrha.
[Aramaic: Mrya Tz-b-a-o-th: Master YHWH of hosts]
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The Aramaic "MrYa" (=s Master YHWH, with a few exceptions where it's a woman's name) was translated as 'kurios' in the Greek translation of it. The Greek mss. also translated 'master/ lord/ sir' as 'kurios,' e.g. at 1 Peter 3:6.
1 Peter 3:6 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_peter/3-6.htm
https://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-6.htm
as Sarah was obedient to Abraham, calling him 'sir,' [Greek: kyrion/κύριον/lord] of whom ye did become daughters, doing good, and not fearing any terror.
Of the Greek New Testament's 700+ instances of 'kurios' and its variants, do you know which if any had been translated from something representing the tetragrammaton?
2962. κύριος (kurios)
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_2962.htm
Strong's Greek: 2962. κύριος (kurios) — 722 Occurrences
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1 Peter 3:12 quotes the Old Testament. When 1 Peter 3:12 was originally written, do you think it did, or didn't:
contain something representing the tetragrammaton?
speak of God's 'eyes' 'ears' and 'face'? (and if 'yes,' is that sort of language more at home in Greek thought, or in Semitic thought?)
Psalm 34 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+34%3A12-16&version=HCSB
15 The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
and His ears are open to their cry for help.
16 The face of the LORD is set
against those who do what is evil,
to erase all memory of them from the earth.
1 Peter 3:12 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-12.htm
because the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous,
and His ears -- to their supplication,
and the face of the Lord is upon those doing evil;'
1 Peter 3:12
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_peter/3-12.htm
Because ophthalmoi/ὀφθαλμοὶ/eyes Kyriou/Κυρίου/of-Lord epi/ἐπὶ/on dikaious/δικαίους/righteous
kai/καὶ/and ōta/ὦτα/ears autou/αὐτοῦ/of-Him eis/εἰς/toward deēsin/δέησιν/prayer autōn/αὐτῶν/of-them.
prosōpon/πρόσωπον/face de/δὲ/however Kyriou/Κυρίου/of-Lord epi/ἐπὶ/against poiountas/ποιοῦντας/those-doing kaka/κακά/evil.
1 Peter 3:12
http://dukhrana.com
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
(Lamsa) For the eyes of the LORD [Aramaic: d'MrYa: of Master YHWH] are on the righteous,
and his ears are open to their prayers,
but the countenance of the LORD [Aramaic: d'MrYa: of Master YHWH] is against the wicked.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
When 2 Peter 2:14 was originally written, do you think:
it said "having eyes full of an adulteress"?
it said: 'sons/children of a curse'?
it meant: 'children of a curse'? 'cursed'?
Do you agree that the construction 'son of X' to denote a characteristic or destiny of someone is Semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic)?
Do you think it's a construction that a native Greek speaker would use?
Do you think a native Greek speaker would speak of a 'kardian/καρδίαν/heart gegymnasmenēn/γεγυμνασμένην/having-been-exercised in greed'?
Do you think a Semitic person would speak of a 'heart experienced in covetousness'?
2 Peter 2:14 (Disciples' Literal NT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+peter+2%3A14&version=DLNT;YLT
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/2-14.htm
having eyes full _of an_ adulteress and restless _of_ sin,
enticing unstable souls,
having _a_ heart [Greek: kardian/καρδίαν/heart] trained _in_ greed.
Children _of a_ curse!—
Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/2-14.htm
14. having eyes full of adultery] The Greek gives literally the somewhat strange figure, having eyes full of an adulteress.
....
cursed children] Better, children of a curse. The Apostle falls back on the old Hebrew idiom of expressing character by the idea of sonship. So we have "children of obedience" in 1 Peter 1:14. "Children of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2). The "son of perdition" (John 17:12).
2 Peter 2:14
http://dukhrana.com
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
(Etheridge) having eyes full of adultery, and sins which cease not, alluring souls that are not established. An heart have they which is disciplined in covetousness; sons of malediction,
(APNT) having eyes that are full of adultery and sins that do not come to an end, enticing people that are unstable and having a heart that is practiced in fraud, children of a curse,
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When 2 Corinthians 6:15 was first written, do you think it said:
bελίαρ/beliar? bελίαλ/belial? satana?
Do you think a native Greek speaker would use "belial"?
2 Corinthians 6:15a
https://biblehub.com/greek/beliar_955.htm
https://biblehub.com/texts/2_corinthians/6-15.htm
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
(NIV) What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? ....
(NET Bible) And what agreement does Christ have with Beliar? ....
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) What harmony has The Messiah with Satan? [Aramaic: l'M-sh-i-kh-a ai-m s-t-n-a: Messiah with satan]
Pulpit Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_corinthians/6-15.htm
Verse 15. - Concord; literally, harmony or accord. The word does not occur elsewhere in the New Testament or in the LXX. .... Belial. Here used in the form Beliar, as a proper name, because no Greek word ends in the letter τ. In the Old Testament it does not stand for a person, but means "wickedness" or "worthlessness." Thus in Proverbs 6:12 "a naughty person" is adam belial. "A son of Belial" means "a child of wickedness" [better: it means 'wicked' - df] by a common Hebraism (Deuteronomy 13:13; Judges 19:22). .... Belial only became a proper name in later days ....
Vincent's Word Studies
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_corinthians/6-15.htm
Beliar. Belial is a transcript of the Hebrew, meaning worthlessness or wickedness. The Septuagint renders it variously by transgressor, impious, foolish, pest. It does not occur in the Septuagint as a proper name. The form Beliar, which is preferred by critics, is mostly ascribed to the Syriac pronunciation of Belial, the change of l into r being quite common.
Bengel's Gnomen
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_corinthians/6-15.htm
2 Corinthians 6:15. Βελιαρ, Belial) The LXX. always express in Greek words the Hebrew, בליעל; but here Paul uses the Hebrew word for the purpose of Euphemism [avoiding something unpleasant by the use of a term less strictly appropriate]. This word is an appellative, 1 Samuel 25:25, and occurs for the first time in Deuteronomy 13:14.
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When it was originally written, do you think 2 Timothy 2:26 said:
"to recover from drunkenness"?
diabolou/διαβόλου/devil? satana?
2 Timothy 2:26
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_timothy/2-26.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/to_3588.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm
and ananēpsōsin/ἀνανήψωσιν out of the of the diabolou/διαβόλου/devil snare
having been captured by him for the his will
Pulpit Commentary
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_timothy/2-26.htm
Verse 26. - .... Having been taken captive, etc. This is undoubtedly a difficult passage. We will first take the individual words, and then turn to the general meaning. Recover themselves (ἀνανήψωσιν); only found here in the New Testament, and never in the LXX. In classical Greek, where it is, however, uncommon, it means literally "to recover from drunkenness," hence, "to come to one's self," "to come to a right mind" (see Steph., 'Thes.'). ....
2 Timothy 2:26
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/2_timothy/2-26.htm
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
And they will remember their souls and break loose from the trap of Satan [Aramaic: d's-t-n-a: of satan]
by whom they were captured for his pleasure.
2Ti 2:26
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
(APNT) and will recall [the truth] to themselves and will break away from the snare of Satan,
by whom they were caught for his desire.
(KJV) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil,
who are taken captive by him at his will.
(Murdock) and may recollect themselves, and may escape out of the snare of Satan,
at whose pleasure they have been held ensnared.
Which if any of the originally-verbal remarks below were originally:
spoken in Aramaic or Hebrew?
spoken in Greek?
written in Aramaic or Hebrew?
written in Greek?
snips throughout
https://biblehub.com/greek/strongs_4567.htm
Matthew 4:10 N-VMS
NAS: to him, Go, Satan! For it is written,
Matthew 12:26 N-NMS
KJV: And if Satan cast out Satan,
Matthew 16:23 N-VMS
NAS: behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block
Mark 3:23 N-NMS
KJV: How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mark 3:26 N-NMS
KJV: And if Satan rise up against
Mark 4:15 N-NMS
KJV: they have heard, Satan cometh
INT: comes Satan and takes away
Mark 8:33 N-VMS
NAS: behind Me, Satan; for you are not setting your mind
Luke 10:18 N-AMS
NAS: to them, I was watching Satan fall
KJV: unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning
Luke 11:18 N-NMS
KJV: If Satan also be divided
Luke 13:16 N-NMS
KJV: of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo,
Luke 22:31 N-NMS
NAS: Simon, behold, Satan has demanded
Acts 5:3 N-NMS
KJV: Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine
INT: did fill Satan the heart
Acts 26:18 N-GMS
NAS: and from the dominion of Satan to God,
Revelation 2:9 N-GMS
NAS: and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:13 N-GMS
INT: throne of Satan [is] and you hold fast
Revelation 2:13 N-NMS
NAS: among you, where Satan dwells.
Revelation 2:24 N-GMS
KJV: the depths of Satan, as
Revelation 3:9 N-GMS
NAS: [those] of the synagogue of Satan, who say
4567. Satanas
https://biblehub.com/str/greek/4567.htm
Satanas: the adversary, Satan, i.e. the devil
Original Word: Σατανᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Satanas
Phonetic Spelling: (sat-an-as')
Definition: the adversary, Satan, the devil
Usage: an adversary, Satan.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of Hebrew origin satan
Definition
the adversary, Satan, i.e. the devil
NASB Translation
Satan (35), Satan's (1).
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
Satan.
Of Chaldee origin corresponding to ma'bad (with the definite affix); the accuser, i.e. The devil -- Satan.
7854. שָׂטָן (satan)
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_7854.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 7854. שָׂטָן (satan) — 27 Occurrences
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When Jesus spoke of 3 'measures' in Matthew 13:33 ( = Luke 13:21), did he speak in:
Greek? Hebrew? Aramaic?
When that remark of his was first written down, was it written in:
Greek? Hebrew? Aramaic?
Matthew 13:33
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
https://biblehub.com/matthew/13-33.htm
(Berean Literal Bible)
He spoke to them another parable: "The kingdom of the heavens is like leaven, which a woman having taken, hid in three measures [Greek: σάτα/sata] of flour until all of it was leavened."
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
He told them another parable: "The Kingdom of Heaven is likened to leaven which a woman took and hid in three measures [Aramaic: s-a-i-n] of meal until all of it had fermented."
4568. saton
https://biblehub.com/greek/4568.htm
saton: seah, a (Heb.) measure (equiv. to about one and a half pecks)
Original Word: σάτον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: saton
Phonetic Spelling: (sat'-on)
Definition: seah, a (Hebrew) measure (equiv. to about one and a half pecks)
Usage: a large measure equal to nearly three English gallons.
HELPS Word-studies
4568 sáton – "a large measure equivalent to nearly three English gallons" (Souter); the measure for grain, "about a peck and a half or somewhat less than one-half bushel (a bushel consists of four pecks) or approximately twelve liters in the metric system" (L & N, 1, 81.23).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of Aramaic origin, cf. seah
Definition
seah, a (Heb.) measure (equiv. to about one and a half pecks)
NASB Translation
pecks (2).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 4568: σάτον
σάτον (Hebrew כְאָה, Chaldean כָאתָא, Syriac )t)S []), σατου, τό, a kind of dry measure....
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Re: Luke 1:15, was it originally:
spoken in Greek?
spoken in Hebrew or Aramaic?
written in Greek?
written in Hebrew or Aramaic?
Luke 1:15
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/1-15.htm
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
"He will be great before THE LORD JEHOVAH [Aramaic: before MrYa = before Master YHWH],
and he will not drink wine or strong drink [Aramaic: o'sh-k-r-a: or strong-drink],
and he will be filled with The Spirit of Holiness
while he is in the womb of his mother."
(Young's Literal Translation)
for he shall be great before the Lord [Greek: Kyriou/Κυρίου],
and wine and strong drink [Greek: sikera/σίκερα/strong-drink] he may not drink,
and of the Holy Spirit he shall be full,
even from his mother's womb;
4608. sikera
https://biblehub.com/greek/4608.htm
sikera: fermented liquor
Original Word: σίκερα, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Indeclinable, Other Type
Transliteration: sikera
Phonetic Spelling: (sik'-er-ah)
Definition: fermented liquor
Usage: intoxicating drink.
HELPS Word-studies
4608 síkera (a transliteration of the Hebrew 7941/shēkhār, "alcoholic drink") – any fermented, intoxicating drink (sometimes made from grapes); "strong drink, fermented from fruits, grain, dates or honey, i.e. not distilled alcoholic beverages "such as whiskey, gin, and vodka, which were not known in the ancient world" (L & N, 1, 6.200).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of Hebrew origin shekar
Definition
fermented liquor
NASB Translation
liquor (1).
....
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
strong drink.
Of Hebrew origin (shekar); an intoxicant, i.e. Intensely fermented liquor -- strong drink.
see HEBREW shekar
7941. shekar
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7941.htm
shekar: intoxicating drink, strong drink
Original Word: שֵׁכָר
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: shekar
Phonetic Spelling: (shay-kawr')
Definition: intoxicating drink, strong drink
_Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament_ (1974)
https://www.google.com/search?q="is+common+semitic"+"the+root+even+entered+greek+as+a+loanword+via+the+lxx"
The root škr (verb: "become intoxicated"; noun: "intoxicating drink, [strong] beer") is Common Semitic and its meaning is constant. ... 5 The root even entered Greek as a loanword via the LXX: síkera, "strong ...
Which if any of these constructions do you consider:
typical of Greek thought?
typical of Semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) thought?:
"children of obedience" meaning 'obedient people'
"Son of Encouragement" meaning 'Encourager'
"son of peace" meaning 'peaceful person'
"sons of disobedience" meaning 'disobedient people'
===============
"children of wrath" meaning: wrath-filled people? people subject to wrath?
"sons of this age/world" meaning: mortal people? worldly people?
"sons of the light" meaning: lighted people? enlightened people? people comfortable in the light?
"son of destruction" meaning: destroying person? person to be destroyed?
"sons of the resurrection" meaning: resurrected people? people to be resurrected?
"children of the flesh" meaning: fleshy people?
"children of the promise" meaning: promised people?
"children of the slave woman" meaning: enslaved people?
'children of the free woman' meaning: free people?
===============
1 Peter 1:14 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_peter/1-14.htm
https://biblehub.com/1_peter/1-14.htm
as children of obedience [Greek: tekna/τέκνα/children hypakoēs/ὑπακοῆς/of-obedience],
not being conformed to the passions in your former ignorance.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
https://biblehub.com/1_peter/1-14.htm
(14) As obedient children.--Literally, as children of obedience--children, i.e., in the sense of relationship, not of age.
Pulpit Commentary
https://biblehub.com/1_peter/1-14.htm
Verse 14. - As obedient children; rather, children of obedience (comp. Ephesians 2:2, 3; Ephesians 5:8; also 2 Peter 2:14; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; Luke 16:8). Winer says ('Grammar,' 3. 34; 'Romans,' 2), "This mode of expression is to be traced to the more lively imagination of the Orientals, by which the most intimate connection (derivation from and dependence on) - even when the reference is to what is not material - is viewed under the image of the relation of son or child to parent. Hence 'children of disobedience' are those who belong to disobedience as a child to his mother - disobedience having become their nature, their predominant disposition."
===============
Acts 4:36 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/acts/4-36.htm
Now Joseph having been called Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated, Son of encouragement), a Levite, a Cypriot at the birth,
===============
Luke 10:6 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/luke/10-6.htm
And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest upon it;
but if not so, it will return to you.
===============
Ephesians 2:2 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-2.htm
in which once you walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience,
Ephesians 5:6 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-6.htm
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
Colossians 3:6 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/colossians/3-6.htm
because of which things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience,
===============
Ephesians 2:3 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/2-3.htm
among whom we all also once lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of its thoughts; and we were by nature children of wrath even as the rest.
===============
Ephesians 5:8 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-8.htm
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light,
1 Thess 5:5 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/1_thessalonians/5-5.htm
For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day;
we do not belong to the night or to the darkness.
===============
2 Thess 2:3 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-3.htm
No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,
John 17:12 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/john/17-12.htm
When I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name, which You have given Me. And I guarded them, and none of them has perished, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
===============
Luke 16:8 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/luke/16-8.htm
And the master praised the unrighteous manager because he had acted shrewdly.
For the sons of this age are more shrewd than
the sons of the light in their own generation.
===============
Luke 20:36 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/luke/20-36.htm
For neither are they able to die any more, for they are like the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
===============
Romans 9:8 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/romans/9-8.htm
That is, the children of the flesh,
these are not children of God;
but the children of the promise
are regarded as offspring.
===============
Galatians 4:31 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/galatians/4-31.htm
So then, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free.
Do you agree with the remark below that "The text reading is not proper Greek but it is the sort of Greek that one would expect in a translation from Aramaic"?
Hat tip to PDF at
https://www.preteristarchive.com/bibliography_all-pdf-files/ -- 2006: Raphael ..., Was the New Testament Written in Greek?
from
http://web.ovc.edu/terry/tc/lay11act.htm
Acts 10:36:
TEXT: "plYou know the word which he sent to the sons"
EVIDENCE: p74 S* C D E P Psi 945 1241 2495 Byz Lect one lat syr
TRANSLATIONS: KJV ASV RSV NASV NIV TEV
RANK: C
NOTES: "plYou know he sent the word to the sons"
EVIDENCE: Sa A B 81 614 1739 most lat vg cop
TRANSLATIONS: ASVn NASVn NEB
COMMENTS: The difference in the two readings is the inclusion or omission of "which" which is included in brackets in the UBS text. The text reading is not proper Greek but it is the sort of Greek that one would expect in a translation from Aramaic. Since the last two letters of the Greek word for "word" spell the Greek word for "which," it is possible that the word "which" was accidently added when copyists saw those letters twice. On the other hand, it is also possible that the word "which" was originally present and it was accidently omitted when copyists' eyes jumped from the end of "word" to the end of "which."
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Do you think Jesus had something written on his:
garments? thigh? garments and thigh?
Rev 19:16 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
And he had a name written on his garments, on his thighs,
"King of kings and Lord of lords."
Rev 19:16
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/19-16.htm
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
And he has on his garment over his thigh the name written:
"The King of Kings and The Lord of Power."
(YLT)
and he hath upon the garment and [Greek: kai/καὶ/and] upon his thigh the name written,
'King of kings, and Lord of lords.'
David Bauscher got his English by translating from the Aramaic. I'd object to Bauscher's translation of Mt 25:46: God doesn't do torture, and 'eternal' is going beyond what the Aramaic has. I'd handle the passage this way:
Mt 25:46 (based on Younan, http://dukhrana.com; cf. https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search)
And these will depart l'thshniqa-d'l'ailm [to-torment of-to-the world/age, i.e. to the world/age of torment],
and the zadiqa [righteous] l'khia-d'l'ailm."[to-life of-to-the world/age, i.e. to the world/age of life]
The Latin and the Greek Matthew 26:6 have a mistranslation of the original Aramaic by calling the houseguest-entertaining Simon a leper, when actually he was a potter.
from
http://dukhrana.com
Matthew 26:6 (Clementine Vulgate) Cum autem Iesus esset in Bethania in domo Simonis leprosi,
Matthew 26:6 (Official Greek Orthodox Church NT) Τοῦ δὲ Ἰησοῦ γενομένου ἐν Βηθανίᾳ ἐν οἰκίᾳ Σίμωνος τοῦ λεπροῦ,
The Latin and the Greek Matthew 1:16 have a mistranslation of the original Aramaic by calling a particular Joseph her husband, when actually that Joseph was Mary's guardian father.
Matthew 1:16 - Iacob autem genuit Ioseph virum Mariæ, de qua natus est Iesus, qui vocatur Christus. [working with Google translate: Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ]
Matthew 1:16 - Ἰακὼβ δὲ ἐγέννησε τὸν Ἰωσὴφ τὸν ἄνδρα Μαρίας, ἐξ ἧς ἐγεννήθη Ἰησοῦς ὁ λεγόμενος Χριστός
The Latin and the Greek Acts 8:27 have a mistranslation of the original Aramaic by calling the Ethiopian traveling to worship in the temple-- which eunuchs were prohibited from doing-- a eunuch, when actually he was a believer.
Acts 8:27 - Et surgens abiit. Et ecce vir Æthiops, eunuchus, potens Candacis Reginæ Æthiopum, qui erat super omnes gazas eius: venerat adorare in Ierusalem:
Acts 8:27 - καὶ ἀναστὰς ἐπορεύθη καὶ ἰδοὺ ἀνὴρ Αἰθίοψ εὐνοῦχος δυνάστης Κανδάκης τῆς βασιλίσσης Αἰθιόπων, ὃς ἦν ἐπὶ πάσης τῆς γάζης αὐτῆς, ὃς ἐληλύθει προσκυνήσων εἰς Ἱερουσαλήμ
A good study!
"and these will go away to aionian - kolasin" should it seems to me read as:
will go away to of a duration/age - (of) correction
I'm not sure about Simon the host.. leprou, same word used for others who were healed of the disease... not sure about Joseph either how that would be known.. would be quite a coincidence.. not a real important misunderstanding if it is.. My view is translators do indeed get some things wrong..
The word for the Ethiopian man was eunouchos, and it says he went to worship in Jerusalem but not that he entered the temple.. I don't know what the law was..
I do however think translators are prone to running with verses and with meanings of words! :doh:
Who do you think named Jesus: Mary, or her husband Joseph?
Matthew 1:21, 25
https://biblehub.com/matthew/1-21.htm
https://biblehub.com/matthew/1-25.htm
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
"And she shall bring forth a Son, and she shall call his name Yeshua, for he shall save his people from their sins." .... And he [Joseph] did not know her sexually until she delivered her firstborn son, and she called his name Yeshua.
(HCSB)
She will give birth to a son, and you [Joseph] are to name Him Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins." .... but did not know her intimately until she gave birth to a son. And he named Him Jesus.
not-related, but interesting:
Vincent's Word Studies
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/matthew/1-21.htm
.... The Rabbis had a saying concerning the six whose names were given before their birth: "Isaac, Ishmael, Moses, Solomon, Josiah, and the name of the Messiah, whom may the Holy One, blessed be His name, bring quickly in our days."
Jesus (Ιησοῦν)
The Greek form of a Hebrew name, which had been borne by two illustrious individuals in former periods of the Jewish history - Joshua, the successor of Moses, and Jeshua, the high-priest, who with Zerubbabel took so active a part in the re-establishment of the civil and religious polity of the Jews on their return from Babylon. Its original and full form is Jehoshua, becoming by contraction Joshua or Jeshua. Joshua, the son of Nun, the successor of Moses, was originally named Hoshea (saving), which was altered by Moses into Jehoshua (Jehovah (our) Salvation) (Numbers 13:16). The meaning of the name, therefore, finds expression in the title Saviour, applied to our Lord (Luke 1:47; Luke 2:11; John 4:42).
Joshua, the son of Nun, is a type of Christ in his office of captain and deliverer of his people, in the military aspect of his saving work (Revelation 19:11-16). As God's revelation to Moses was in the character of a law-giver, his revelation to Joshua was in that of the Lord of Hosts (Joshua 5:13, Joshua 5:14). Under Joshua the enemies of Israel were conquered, and the people established in the Promised Land. So Jesus leads his people in the fight with sin and temptation. He is the leader of the faith which overcomes the world (Hebrews 12:2). Following him, we enter into rest.
The priestly office of Jesus is foreshadowed in the high-priest Jeshua, who appears in the vision of Zechariah (Zechariah 3:1-10; compare Ezra 2:2) in court before God, under accusation of Satan, and clad in filthy garments. Jeshua stands not only for himself, but as the representative of sinning and suffering Israel. Satan is defeated. The Lord rebukes him, and declares that he will redeem and restore this erring people; and in token thereof he commands that the accused priest be clad in clean robes and crowned with the priestly mitre.
Thus in this priestly Jeshua we have a type of our "Great High-Priest, touched with the feeling of our infirmities, and in all points tempted and tried like as we are;" confronting Satan in the wilderness; trying conclusions with him upon the victims of his malice - the sick, the sinful, and the demon-ridden. His royal robes are left behind. He counts not "equality with God a thing to be grasped at," but "empties himself," taking the "form of a servant," humbling himself and becoming "obedient even unto death" (Philippians 2:6, Philippians 2:7, Rev.). He assumes the stained garments of our humanity. He who "knew no sin" is "made to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in him" (2 Corinthians 5:21). He is at once priest and victim. He pleads for sinful man before God's throne. He will redeem him. He will rebuke the malice and cast down the power of Satan. He will behold him "as lightning fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18). He will raise and save and purify men of weak natures, rebellious wills, and furious passions - cowardly braggarts and deniers like Peter, persecutors like Saul of Tarsus, charred brands - and make them witnesses of his grace and preachers of his love and power. His kingdom shall be a kingdom of priests, and the song of his redeemed church shall be, "unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his own blood, and made us to be a kingdom, to be priests unto his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen" (Revelation 1:5, Revelation 1:6, in Rev.).
It is no mere fancy which sees a suggestion and a foreshadowing of the prophetic work of Jesus in the economy of salvation, in a third name closely akin to the former. Hoshea, which we know in our English Bible as Hosea, was the original name of Joshua (compare Romans 9:25, Rev.) and means saving. He is, in a peculiar sense, the prophet of grace and salvation, placing his hope in God's personal coming as the refuge and strength of humanity; in the purification of human life by its contact with the divine. The great truth which he has to teach is the love of Jehovah to Israel as expressed in the relation of husband, an idea which pervades his prophecy, and which is generated by his own sad domestic experience. He foreshadows Jesus in his pointed warnings against sin, his repeated offers of divine mercy, and his patient, forbearing love, as manifested in his dealing with an unfaithful and dissolute wife, whose soul he succeeded in rescuing from sin and death (Hosea 1-3). So long as he lived, he was one continual, living prophecy of the tenderness of God toward sinners; a picture of God's love for us when alien from him, and with nothing in us to love. The faithfulness of the prophetic teacher thus blends in Hosea, as in our Lord, with the compassion and sympathy and sacrifice of the priest.
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Do you think Matthew 11:17 originally spoke of: singing? piping?
Matthew 11:17, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) and say, We have sung to you, and you have not danced;
we have wailed unto you, and you have not mourned.
(KJV) And saying, We have piped [Greek: Ēulēsamen/ Ηὐλήσαμεν/ We piped] unto you, and ye have not danced;
we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
(Clementine Vulgate) dicunt: Cecinimus vobis, et non saltastis:
lamentavimus, et non planxistis.
[google translate kicked out both "we sang (to) you" and also "piped to you," so I have no idea what the Latin means]
The verse isn't in the Diatesseron.
Quote from: marie glen on November 12, 2019, 05:52:44 PM
"and these will go away to aionian - kolasin" should it seems to me read as:
will go away to of a duration/age - (of) correction
I'm not sure about Simon the host.. leprou, same word used for others who were healed of the disease... not sure about Joseph either how that would be known.. would be quite a coincidence.. not a real important misunderstanding if it is.. My view is translators do indeed get some things wrong..
The word for the Ethiopian man was eunouchos, and it says he went to worship in Jerusalem but not that he entered the temple.. I don't know what the law was..
I do however think translators are prone to running with verses and with meanings of words!
The torment would be corrective, so yes, you could say age/world of correction.
Are you aware of any ex-lepers being called lepers? It seems to me a huge slander to go around calling particular ex-lepers "lepers."
In Mt's geneology, the Aramaic 'gbra' can mean 'guardian male.' It got mistranslated as 'husband' in Greek manuscripts. Mary had a guardian father figure called Joseph, and also a husband called Joseph. It's a big misunderstanding that Bible-critic Bart Erhman has discussed in a manner critical of the New Testament, and on which much ink has been used.
Eunuchs were prohibited from entering the temple. Presumably the Ethiopian believer planned on worshiping in the temple.
Luke 11:33: in a hidden place, or in a crypt/cellar?
Luke 11:33 (based on Younan), http://dukhrana.com
No man lights a lamp
and sets it in a hidden place or under a basket,
rather upon a menortha [lampstand]
so (that) those who enter may see nureh [its light].
Luke 11:33, version 1.3
"No one, when he has lit a lamp,
puts it in a cellar or under a basket,
but on a stand,
that those who come in may see the light.
Greek: kryptēn/ κρύπτην/ crypt
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/11-33.htm
2926. krupté
https://biblehub.com/greek/2926.htm
krupté: a crypt
Original Word: κρύπτη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: krupté
Phonetic Spelling: (kroop-tay')
Definition: a crypt
Usage: a cellar, vault, hidden place, crypt.
_Our Translated Gospels: Some of the Evidence_ (1936), 172pp. by Charles Cutler Torrey. On 31, 32-33
https://archive.org/details/OurTranslatedGospelsCCTorrey/page/n1
c. Lk. 11:33 ac. to Grk.: No one lights a lamp and puts it IN A CELLAR (....[snip word having Hebrew/Aramaic characters]....).
True rendering: No one lights a lamp and puts it in hiding (same word). ....
Exhibit VI, C (Lk. 11:33). Had Lk. never seen a cellar? Did he not know how cellars were used? Doubtless on the day when he wrote these words, hundreds of men in Antioch (or wherever he lived) could have been seen to "light a lamp and put it in a cellar," with very useful result. To express the general truth intended here, the word is ill chosen.
The reproach does not fall upon Lk., however. He had no thought of a "cellar," nor can it have occurred to him that the word which he used might be thus interpreted. The ancient translators of his Grk. understood him perfectly. Jerome has _in abscondito_, and the Syr. versions render in the same way. He merely uses the feminine adjective, "hidden." Why feminine? Because in the Aramaic language the neuter gender is expressed by the feminine, as in the adverbial phrase before his eyes. It is simply his meticulous way of translating such phrases. He does precisely the same thing in 14:18; see _The Four Gospels_, p. 311. If he had had occasion to translate the passages Mt. 6:6, 18, where Grk. Mt. employs the neuter gender, he would have rendered just as he does here; without thinking that any one could interpret: "Pray to your Father in a cellar, and your Father who sees in a cellar will reward you."
We are like opposites! I am a lover of simplicity.. lol.
Right now there's two verses that seem to me to be loaded / say a lot, and they seem to me to be a great outline concerning true from not true.
How the Lord said (John 5:28-29) "all in the tombs" (graves) "will hear His voice and will come forth" (out of the graves/tombs) "those who have done good in the resurrection of life" (at Jesus' return/appearance beginning His long second advent) "and those who have done evil in the resurrection of judgment" - The Judgment the Lord talked about.. That resurrection being "after the thousand years"/millennium.
And how Peter shed light on The Judgment by writing "..God knows how to preserve the unrighteous for CORRECTION/kolazo on 'day' of judgment". 2 Peter 2:9
There are the two partnered false doctrines.
There were two opposing statements made after the fall into disobedience ..obviously engineered by God as (surely?) learning good from evil is totally unavoidable if there's to be created beings with genuine thinking and reasoning ability. And what better - or other - way than by letting choices other than His exist snd run their course - which of course the world judges God concerning.. as to PROVE good from evil / life from death, even some of the worst fruit must be allowed.. Even IF imperfection is a bottomless pit of potential..
Even Christian Universalism is caught up to a certain degree in the confusion and (unintended) veiling of the truth via confusion.. If we would understand the plain and simple Truth of the Word, the "good news for all" would not remain so easily debated.. but would be much clearer news.
Warning, off topic - And it's the Word that matters, and we have no stake in it, except to be true to the message / news. All too often discussion becomes like a matter of my take versus your take.. All that simply veiling the news. And is human what James called actually devilish..
I pray the news, in spite of all the obstacles, can be a straight and obvious way.. Easily seen and understood by all. Of course simple and plain does not glorify the speaker / communicator / teacher like presenting deeply hidden mysteries (depths) as they are thought of, showing how wise we are.. as we gather followers to ourselves.
Sorry venting a little I guess.
The Lord bless your studies! :gsmile:
Both the Greek and Latin Matthew 7:6 each have 2 mistranslations:
Matthew 7:6, http://dukhrana.com
(KJV)
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs,
neither cast ye your pearls before swine,
lest they trample them under their feet,
and turn again and rend you.
(Clementine Vulgate)
Nolite dare sanctum canibus: [google translate: Do not give what is holy (to) dogs]
neque mittatis margaritas vestras ante porcos,
ne forte conculcent eas pedibus suis,
et conversi dirumpant vos.
(based on Younan)
You should not hang earrings on dogs,
and you should not place your pearls before pigs,
that they should not trample them by their feet,
and they overtake and wound you.
=======================================
Both the Greek and Latin Matthew 9:15 have a mistranslation or corruption:
Matthew 9:14 (HCSB), https://biblehub.com/matthew/9-14.htm
Then John's disciples came to Him, saying, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but Your disciples do not fast?"
Matthew 9:15
https://biblehub.com/matthew/9-15.htm
http://dukhrana.com
(YLT)
And Jesus said to them,
'Can the sons of the bride-chamber mourn [Greek: penthein/πενθεῖν/mourn],
so long as the bridegroom is with them?
but days shall come when the bridegroom may be taken from them,
and then they shall fast.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
And Yeshua said to them,
"How can the children of the bridal chamber fast
as long as the groom is with them?
But the days are coming when the groom will be taken from them
and then they will fast."
(Clementine Vulgate)
Et ait illis Iesus:
Numquid possunt filii sponsi lugere [google translate: Can the wedding guests mourn],
quamdiu cum illis est sponsus?
Venient autem dies cum auferetur ab eis sponsus:
et tunc ieiunabunt.
3996. pentheó
https://biblehub.com/greek/3996.htm
pentheó: to mourn, lament
Original Word: πενθέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pentheó
Phonetic Spelling: (pen-theh'-o)
Definition: to mourn, lament
Usage: I mourn, lament, feel guilt.
HELPS Word-studies
3996 penthéō – properly, grieve over a death; (figuratively) to grieve over a personal hope (relationship) that dies, i.e. comes to divine closure ("ends").
3996 /penthéō ("mourn over a death") refers to "manifested grief" (WS, 360) – so severe it takes possession of a person and cannot be hid. (This is the same meaning of 3996 /penthéō throughout antiquity, cf. LS, R. Trench, Synonyms.)
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from penthos
Definition
to mourn, lament
NASB Translation
mourn (6), mourned (1), mourning (3).
=======================================
Both the Greek and Latin Matthew 1:16 have a mistranslation in calling a particular Joseph Mary's husband, when actually that Joseph was her protective male father figure.
http://dukhrana.com
(KJV)
Matthew 1:15 - And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
Matthew 1:16 - And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
(Clementine Vulgate)
Matthew 1:15 - Eliud autem genuit Eleazar. Eleazar autem genuit Mathan. Mathan autem genuit Iacob.
Matthew 1:16 - Iacob autem genuit Ioseph virum Mariæ [google translate: Joseph, husband of Mary], de qua natus est Iesus, qui vocatur Christus.
=======================================
Both the Greek and Latin Matthew 27:9 erroneously claim that Jeremiah said something he didn't say.
Matthew 27:9a, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) Then was fulfilled what had been spoken by the prophet, who said, ....
(Murdock) Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by the prophet, saying: ....
(Lamsa) Then what was spoken by the prophet was fulfilled, who said, ....
(KJV) Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, ....
(Clementine Vulgate) Tunc impletum est quod dictum est per Ieremiam prophetam, dicentem: ....
=======================================
When it was originally written, do you think Luke 1:17 said 'to make ready a people ready for the Lord'/ 'to prepare a people prepared for the Lord'?
Luke 1:17, http://dukhrana.com
(Murdock) And he will go before him, in the spirit and power of Elijah the prophet,
and will turn the heart of the fathers unto the children,
and them that are disobedient to the knowledge of the righteous,
and will prepare a perfect people for the Lord.
(KJV) And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias,
to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,
and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just;
to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/1-17.htm
hetoimasai/ ἑτοιμάσαι/ to-make-ready
kateskeuasmenon/ κατεσκευασμένον/ prepared
2090. hetoimazó
https://biblehub.com/greek/2090.htm
hetoimazó: to prepare
Original Word: ἑτοιμάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hetoimazó
Phonetic Spelling: (het-oy-mad'-zo)
Definition: to prepare
Usage: I make ready, prepare.
2680. kataskeuazó
https://biblehub.com/greek/2680.htm
kataskeuazó: to prepare
Original Word: κατασκευάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kataskeuazó
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ask-yoo-ad'-zo)
Definition: to prepare
Usage: I build, construct, prepare, make ready.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/1-17.htm
To make ready a people prepared for the Lord. The Vulgate Latin and Syriac versions read, "a perfect people"; ....
Unlike what's present in Greek mss. for Luke 1:17, the Aramaic 'prepare' and 'mature' are completely non-redundant:
Luk 1:17 (modified APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
and he will go before him b'r-u-kh-a [in the spirit] a'b'kh-i-l-a [and in the power] d'A-l-i-a [of Elijah] n-b-i-a [the prophet],
that he might turn the heart of the parents to the children
and those who are disobedient to the knowledge of the upright,
w'n-t-i-b [and he will prepare] ai-m-a [a people] g-m-i-r-a [mature] l'MrYa [for Master YHWH, i.e. for the LORD]."
ṭyb vb. D to prepare
http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=%2Byb+V%20&cits=all
1 to prepare Syr. OS MtCur3:3 : .... prepare a road for the Lord, and make straight the paths of our God. P Lk24:1 : .... those herbs they had prepared. (a) to produce, provide Syr. SyrAhiq 5 385:19 : .... I presented you before him. P Gn24:12 : .... . (b) to destine Syr. AGnEx 35.8 : .... that is worthy of the excessive retribution that is destined for them.
Dt ....
1 to prepare oneself Syr. P Ex33:8 : .... . P 1S12:16 : .... . P Ps94:16 : .... .
2 to happen to be in a certain place at a certain time Syr. MiS 472b:44 . (a) w. b: to take part in an event Syr. BHce 2:725:21 .
3 to hurry Syr. P Ps119:60 : ....
gmyr (gmīr) adj. perfect, complete, total
http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=gmyr+A%20&cits=all
1 perfect, complete, total Com-OA-OfA. .... 1QEnGiantsb07.2 : כולא גמירת . P Nm4:6 : .... a completely blue garment. P 1S7:9 : .... . P Jn17:23 : .... . TGAs28(1) 23.2.18 : זביני גמירי a complete sale.
Both the Greek and Latin Matthew 17:11 say that 'Elijah' would "restore all things." Yes, John the Baptizer was a good guy who did some important things, including fulfilling prophecy he needed to fulfill, and helping pave the way for the fulfillment of what needed to be fulfilled, but to say he 'restored all things' goes a bit far. The Greek should have been more conservative in its translating of the Aramaic. Hat tip:
http://www.everlastingkingdom.info/gb4.html#mat17
Matthew 17:11, http://dukhrana.com
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/17-11.htm
(Etheridge) Jeshu answered and said to them,
Elia cometh first that he may fulfil every thing;
(Murdock) Jesus answered, and said to them:
Elijah doth first come, to fulfill every thing.
(Lamsa) Jesus answered and said to them,
Elijah will come first, so that everything might be fulfilled.
(KJV) And Jesus answered and said unto them,
Elias truly shall first come, and restore [Greek: apokatastēsei/ ἀποκαταστήσει/ will-restore] all things.
(Clementine Vulgate) At ille respondens, ait eis:
Elias quidem venturus est, et restituet omnia.
[google translate: Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things]
Mat 17:11 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
Jesus answered and said,
"Elijah comes first to fulfill everything.
Matthew 17:11 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/17-11.htm
Yeshua answered and he said to them,
"Elijah does come first so that everything may end."
600. apokathistémi
https://biblehub.com/greek/600.htm
apokathistémi: to restore, give back
Original Word: ἀποκαθίστημι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apokathistémi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ok-ath-is'-tay-mee)
Definition: to restore, give back
Usage: I set up again, restore to its original position or condition; hence: I restore, give back.
HELPS Word-studies
600 apokathístēmi (from 570 /apistía, "separated from" and 2525 /kathístēmi, "have a definite standing") – properly, restore back to original standing, i.e. that existed before a fall; re-establish, returning back to the (ultimate) ideal; (figuratively) restore back to full freedom (the liberty of the original standing); to enjoy again, i.e. what was taken away by a destructive or life-dominating power.
600/apokathistēmi ("reestablish") emphasizes separation from the former, negative influence to enjoy what is forward (the restoration).
CAL
http://cal.huc.edu/getlex.php?coord=620431318&word=13
G
1 to be whole, perfect Com. --(b) to regain health Syr.
2 to be complete, finished Com. --(a) to come true, be fulfilled Syr. (a.1) of scripture: to be fulfilled .... Syr. --(b) +l_ + inf. : to finish doing (or: to be proper to do?) Qum. ....
D
1 to finish (trans.) Syr. --(a) to destroy Syr, JBA. --(b) (period of time) to conclude Syr. --(c) to lose something Syr.
2 to pay in full Com. --(a) to make restitution JLAtg, PTA, Syr, JBA, LJLA. ....
C
1 to complete Qum, JLAtg, PTA, Sam, Syr, JBA, LJLA. --(a) to fill up Gal. --(b) to supplement Gal. --(c) to fulfill, accomplish JLAtg. --(d) to heal Syr.
2 to hand over, transmit BA-Da, Qum, Gal, Sam, Syr, JBA, Man, LJLA. --(a) to entrust Palm, Syr. --(b) to betray Syr.
....
6 to recite a teaching Gal, Sam. ....
Gt
1 to be handed over, delivered Palm, Syr. --(a) to be transmitted Syr.
2 to hand oneself over Syr. --(a) to consent Syr.
Dt
1 to be completed, filled out Qum, Syr. --(a) to be perfected, finished Syr, Man, LJLA. --(b) to be fulfilled JLAtg, Syr.
2 (obligation) to be paid back Qum, JBA, LJLA. --(a) (person) to be repaid LJLA. ....
Ct
1 to be delivered over Syr.
2 to accept what is handed over Syr.
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My response to this appears below; how would you respond to this?:
"Next up, Matthew 2:23 "and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, 'that he would be called a Nazarene.' " Can you show me anywhere in the Hebrew Bible where this prophecy occurs?"
The prophet Isaiah foresaw this:
Isaiah 11:1-2 (HCSB)
1 Then a shoot [Hebrew: ntzr] will grow from the stump of Jesse,
and a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him—
a Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
a Spirit of counsel and strength,
a Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
interlinear PDF of Isaiah 11:1 has 'ntzr'/ scion
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa11.pdf
Yeshayah 11:1 (Orthodox Jewish Bible)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah%2011%3A1-2&version=KJV;OJB
And there shall come forth a Khoter (Branch) out of the Geza (Stem, Stump, Stock) of Yishai,
and a Netzer [Branch [see Tzemach, Moshiach Jer 23:5; 33:15; Zech 3:8; 6:12, Ezra 3:8 which give as Moshiach's Namesake Yehoshua/Yeshua; compare Mt.2:23 OJBC] shall bear fruit of his roots:
Mt 2:23 (based on Younan plus looking at Khabouris), http://dukhrana.com
And he came (and) dwelled in the medintha [city] that is called N-tz-r-th [Natzrath],
so that might be fulfilled the thing which was spoken b'nabia [by the prophet] that,
"He will be called d'n-tz-r-i-a [of natzria]."
_Our Translated Gospels: Some of the Evidence_ (1936), 172pp. by Charles Cutler Torrey. On 152, 153-154
https://archive.org/stream/OurTranslatedGospelsCCTorrey/OurTranslatedGospels-C-C-Torrey_djvu.txt
c. Mt. 2:23 ac. to Grk.: He came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth; in fulfilment of that which was said by the prophets, that he should be called a nazarene (....).
True rendering: (The prophecy was fulfilled) that HE SHOULD BE CALLED 'BRANCH' (.... [same Hebrew/Aramaic characters, but without an extraneous character, and 3 characters vocalized slightly differently]....).
....
Exhibit XXIV, C (Mt. 2:23). This passage, also, furnishes a very obvious specimen of mistranslation, or erroneous transcription, of a written Aramaic original.
The alleged citation of "the prophets" has been the subject of endless discussion from the first Christian centuries onward, but the riddle has remained unsolved. And indeed, it is perfectly insoluble on the supposition of a gospel composed in Greek. There is no such prediction in the O.T., nor anything that could justify the evangelist's (apparent) assertion. Interpreters in a long succession, beginning with St. Jerome, have wished to find here some legitimate connection with the _Neser_, "Branch," of Is. 11:1, but without success. This is, nevertheless, the scripture to which Mt. refers; and inasmuch as the Messiah is also styled "Branch" in Jer. 23:5 and 33:15 (though another Hebrew word is employed), the evangelist's plural, "prophets," has a fair excuse.
Just as soon as the phrase, "he shall be called _Neser_," is written _in Aramaic letters_, the long-existing puzzle is explained. Because of the statement immediately preceding, that Jesus dwelt in Nazareth _in fulfilment of scripture_, the copyist or translator would be certain to regard the _yodh_ following the name as the ending of the gentilic adjective, forming the word "Nazarene." The scribe would write the letter twice, the reader would see it double, and certainly neither could be supposed to "look up" the reference in whatever scrolls of the Hebrew prophets it might be possible to acquire! _"Neser"_ and "Nazareth" belong to the same Semitic root, and I plan to show in another place, on the basis of well-known usage, why the Greek transcription of the gentilic adjective contains _zeta omega_.
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As you look at Luke 7:45, when did the female sinner start kissing Jesus' feet: as soon as Jesus arrived at the Pharisee's house, or as soon as she arrived?
Hat tip:
http://www.everlastingkingdom.info/gb4.html#luk7
Luke 7:37, https://biblehub.com/luke/7-37.htm
(HCSB)
And a woman in the town who was a sinner found out that Jesus was reclining at the table in the Pharisee's house. She brought an alabaster jar of fragrant oil
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
And a sinner woman who was in the city, when she knew that he was staying in the Pharisee's house, she took an alabaster vase of ointment.
Luke 7:45, https://biblehub.com/luke/7-45.htm
(YLT)
a kiss to me thou didst not give, but this woman, from what time I came in, did not cease kissing my feet;
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
"You did not kiss me, but look, from when she entered, she has not ceased to kiss my feet."
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As you look at Luke 9:32-33, how is Luke 9:32 best rendered: "scarcely/barely awake," or "fully/thoroughly awake"?
Hat tip:
http://www.everlastingkingdom.info/gb4.html#luk9
Luke 9:32
http://dukhrana.com
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/9-32.htm
(Etheridge) And Shemun, and they who were with him, had been heavy with sleep,
and were scarcely awaked when they saw his glory and those two men who stood with him.
(Murdock) And Simon and those with him were oppressed with drowsiness;
and being scarcely awake, they saw his glory, and those two men who stood near him.
(KJV) But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep:
and when they were awake [Greek: diagrēgorēsantes/διαγρηγορήσαντες/ having awoken fully], they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
(Clementine Vulgate) Petrus vero, et qui cum illo erant, gravati erant somno.
Et evigilantes viderunt maiestatem eius, et duos viros, qui stabant cum illo.
[google translate: "But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep. When they woke up and saw his glory, and the two men who stood with him" or maybe: "But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep. And having waked, they saw his glory, and the two men who stood with him."]
lmḥsn (lmaḥsan) adv. with difficulty
http://cal.huc.edu/oneentry.php?lemma=lmxsn+X%20&cits=all
1 with difficulty Syr. AGnEx 126.23 : .... with difficulty she was convinced that she should become wet-nurse to her son. P Ps90:10 : .... the years of our lives include seventy years, and with difficulty, eight years. P Lk9:32 : .... . WisSol9:16 : .... it is with difficulty that we understand the things on the earth. IIIMac7:6 : .... . (a) barely, only, just Syr. AGnEx 89.25 : .... by means of the Son hidden in him, he rolled away the stone that many could barely raise up. WisSol9:16 : .... we can only barely understand those things that are on the earth.
1235. diagrégoreó
https://biblehub.com/greek/1235.htm
diagrégoreó: to keep awake, to be fully awake
Original Word: διαγρηγορέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: diagrégoreó
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-ag-ray-gor-eh'-o)
Definition: to keep awake, to be fully awake
Usage: I awake out of sleep, am thoroughly awake.
HELPS Word-studies
1235 diagrēgoréō (from 1223 /diá, "thoroughly" which intensifies 1127 /grēgoreúō, "awaken") – properly, thoroughly, fully (totally) awakened (note the force of the prefix, dia) and used only in Lk 9:32. It emphatically expresses how the sleeping apostles were utterly shocked into full-alertness by the manifestation of Christ's glory.
Luke 9:33 (Berean Study Bible), https://biblehub.com/luke/9-33.htm
As Moses and Elijah were leaving, Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah." (He did not know what he was saying.)
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For Lk 9:46, instead of "argument," it'd be better to put 'thought,' given 9:47.
Is the phrasing "reasoning of their hearts" more at home in: Greek thought? Semitic (Hebrew or Aramaic) thought?
9:46 There arose an argument among them about which of them was the
greatest. 9:47 Jesus, perceiving the reasoning of their hearts, took a little child,
and set him by his side, 9:48 and said to them....
1261. dialogismos
https://biblehub.com/greek/1261.htm
dialogismos: a reasoning
Original Word: διαλογισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: dialogismos
Phonetic Spelling: (dee-al-og-is-mos')
Definition: a reasoning
Usage: a calculation, reasoning, thought, movement of thought, deliberation, plotting.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1261 dialogismós (from 1260 /dialogízomai, "back-and-forth reasoning") – reasoning that is self-based and therefore confused – especially as it contributes to reinforcing others in discussion to remain in their initial prejudice. See 1260 (dialogizomai).
....
Matthew 15:19 N-NMP
GRK: καρδίας ἐξέρχονται διαλογισμοὶ πονηροί φόνοι
NAS: evil thoughts, murders,
KJV: evil thoughts, murders,
INT: heart come forth thoughts evil murders
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The Aramaic Peshi tta says at Lk 15:25 that as the elder brother of the prodigal son came near to the celebration of the prodigal son's return, "he heard the sound of the singing of many"-- with no mention of any dancing. There's also no mention of dancing in the by-A.D. 175 Diatesseron. Do you think mention of dancing does, or doesn't, belong there?
Luke 15:25 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2015%3A25&version=HCSB
"Now his older son was in the field; as he came near the house, he heard music and dancing.
Luk 15:25 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
Now his oldest son was in the field and when he arrived and came near to the house, he heard the sound of the singing of many.
Diatesseron, Section XXVI.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
His father said unto his servants, Bring forth a stately robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and put on him shoes on his feet: and bring and slay a fatted ox, that we may eat and make merry: for this my son was dead, and is alive; and was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. Now his elder son was in the field; and when he came and drew near to the house, he heard the sound of many singing. And he called one of the lads, and asked him what this was. He said unto him, Thy brother hath arrived; and thy father hath slain a fatted ox....
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In Lk 16:6-7 of the Aramaic Peshi tta, and also in the by-A.D. 175 Diatesseron, there are 2 references to sitting down. Greek and Latin mss. only speak of sitting down 1 time, in Lk 16:6. Do you think a reference to sitting down does, or doesn't, belong in Lk 16:7?
Luke 16:6, http://dukhrana.com
(Murdock) And he said to him, One hundred measures of oil. And he said to him: Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write Fifty measures.
(KJV) And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
(Clementine Vulgate) At ille dixit: Centum cados olei. Dixitque illi: Accipe cautionem tuam: et sede cito, scribe quinquaginta.
[google translate: He said, A hundred barrels of oil. And he said to him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.]
Luke 16:7
(Etheridge) And he said to another, And thou, how much owest thou to my lord ? He saith to him, An hundred kureen [The Hebrew kor was about seventy-five gallons, five pints.] of wheat. He saith to him, Take thy book, and sit down, write eighty kureen.
(KJV) Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
(Clementine Vulgate) Deinde alii dixit: Tu vero quantum debes? Qui ait: Centum coros tritici. Ait illi: Accipe litteras tuas, et scribe octoginta.
[google translate: Then he said: And how much do you owe? And he said, 'A hundred measures of wheat.' He said to him, 'Take your bill, and write eighty.']
Diatessaron, Section XXVI
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
[~38] And he called one after another of his lord's debtors, and said to the first, How much owest thou my lord? He said unto him, An hundred portions of oil. He said unto him, Take thy writing, and sit down, and write quickly fifty portions.
And he said to the next, And thou, how much owest thou my lord? He said unto him, An hundred cors of wheat. He said unto him, Take thy writing, and sit down, and write eighty cors.
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In Lk 13:33 of the Aramaic Peshi tta, and also in the by-A.D. 175 Diatesseron, Jesus said that he would "leave the next day; because it is impossible that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem." Greek and Latin mss. lack any mention of Jesus saying he'd leave/go/depart. Do you think a reference to leaving does, or doesn't, belong in Lk 13:33?
Luke 13:33, http://dukhrana.com
(Murdock) But I must labor to-day and to-morrow, and on the following day I will go;
because it cannot be, that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.
(Lamsa) But I must do my work today and tomorrow, and I will leave the next day;
because it is impossible that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem.
(KJV) Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following:
for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
(Clementine Vulgate) Verumtamen oportet me hodie et cras et sequenti die ambulare:
quia non capit prophetam perire extra Ierusalem.
[google translate: But for today and tomorrow and the day after walk;
Because no prophet can die outside of Jerusalem.]
Diatessaron, Section XXIV
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
[~29] Nevertheless I must be watchful to-day and to-morrow, and on the last day I shall depart;
for it cannot be that a prophet perish outside of Jerusalem.
About Elijah restoring - the word is a derivative of - Apocatastasis (also apokatastasis) which means “restoration to the original condition”. The Hebrews had strayed from solid biblical perception to perceptions of the nations. So Elijah was bringing Israel back to the beginning of salvation - which is repentance.
Isaiah 11:1 - Young's Literal Translation
“And a rod hath come out from the stock of Jesse, And a branch from his roots is fruitful.”
Branch being - netser/netzer, sprout, shoot, branch..
Nazareth (/ˈnæzərəθ/; Arabic: النَّاصِرَة, an-Nāṣira; Hebrew: נָצְרַת, Natzrat; Hebrew netzer, which means “branch” or “shoot.” Sometimes when a tree is chopped down, a shoot will grow from the stump, allowing a new tree to spring up where the old one has died. That shoot is called, in Hebrew, a netzer.
Thanks.. mystery solved.. (of how living in Nazareth (Netzer) and called a Nazarine (Netzer / branch) fulfilled prophecy spoken by a prophet.
Do you think Luke 19:17 has "ten talents," or "ten cities"?
Luke 19:17, http://dukhrana.com
(Lamsa) He said to him, O good servant, because you are found faithful in a little, you will have charge over ten talents.
(KJV) And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
(Clementine Vulgate) Et ait illi: Euge bone serve, quia in modico fuisti fidelis, eris potestatem habens super decem civitates.
[modified google translate: maybe: And he said, Well done good servant, because in short you were faithful, have authority over ten cities.]
(APNT), https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
He said to him, 'Well done, good servant. Because you have been found faithful with little, you will be a ruler over ten walled cities.'
From
http://www.everlastingkingdom.info/gb4.html#luk19
Why does this says "minin" (talents) instead of "cities"? The Matthew 25 account is almost identical, but it is not about cities either. "The largest coins in those days, probably equivalent to 3000 shekels—a Minin, talent, was a large coin of silver or gold. A man could carry only one of them. The Greek translators made an error when they translated this word Minin, for Karkha, province. The difference between these two words is noted with a single dot placed over one of the characters and can be easily confused. This nobleman could not have given his servants ten and five cities as a reward for their faithfulness, for he himself had only one city and his servants were not qualified to be rulers."—Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?
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For Luke 20:41, do you think it originally said: "they"? "the Scribes"?
Luke 20:41
https://biblehub.com/luke/20-41.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/20-41.htm
(Berean Literal Bible)
And He said to them, "How do they declare [Greek: legousin/ λέγουσιν/ do they declare] the Christ to be Son of David?
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
He said to them, "How do the Scribes say about The Messiah that he is the son of David?
Luke 20:41
(Etheridge) AND he said to them, How say the Sophree concerning the Meshicha, that he is the Son of David ?
(Murdock) And he said also to them: How do the Scribes say of Messiah, that he is the son of David?
(KJV) And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
(Clementine Vulgate) Dixit autem ad illos: Quomodo dicunt Christum, filium esse David?
[google translate: He said to them, do they say that Christ is the son of David?]
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When Luke 21:11 was originally written, did it refer to bad weather? Greek and Latin mss. don't mention such, while in contrast, the Aramaic Peshi tta and the by-A.D. 175 Diatesseron *do* mention that.
Hat tip:
http://www.everlastingkingdom.info/gb4.html#luk21
earthquakes, famines and pestilences, fearful sights, great signs
earthquakes, famines and plagues, panics and terror, great signs, great storms
earthquakes, famines and plagues, fears and panic, great signs, much foul weather
earthquakes, famines and deaths and agitations, fear and terror, great signs, great storms
Luke 21:11
https://biblehub.com/luke/21-11.htm
(Berean Literal Bible)
There will be both great earthquakes, and famines and pestilences in different places. There will also be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
Great earthquakes shall be in various places, and there shall be famines and plagues and panics and terror, and great signs from the sky shall appear and there shall be great storms.
Luk 21:11 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
and great earthquakes will occur in various places, and famines and plagues, and there will be fears and panic, and great signs from heaven will be seen and there will be much foul weather.
Luke 21:11, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) and great earthquakes will be in divers places, and famines, and plagues; and there will be portents, and terrors, and great signs from the heavens will appear, and great tempests shall there be.
(Murdock) and great earthquakes will occur in several places, and famines, and pestilences; and there will be terrors, and trepidations, and great signs from heaven will be seen, and there will be great tempests.
(Lamsa) And there will be great earthquakes in different places, and famines and plagues; and there will be alarming sights, and great signs will appear from heaven; and the winters will be severe.
(KJV) And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
(Clementine Vulgate) Et terræmotus magni erunt per loca, et pestilentiæ, et fames, terroresque de cælo, et signa magna erunt.
[modified google translate: maybe: Great earthquakes in various places, and plagues, and famines, terrors from heaven, and there will be great signs.]
Diatesseron, Section XLI
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
[~41] and great earthquakes shall be in one place and another, and there shall be famines and deaths and agitations: and there shall be fear and terror and great signs that shall appear from heaven, and there shall be great storms.
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When Luke 22:47 was originally written, do you think it had the short version seen in Greek and Latin mss., or the long version present in the Aramaic Peshi tta?
Luke 22:47, http://dukhrana.com
(KJV) And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
(Clementine Vulgate) Adhuc eo loquente ecce turba: et qui vocabatur Iudas, unus de duodecim, antecedebat eos: et appropinquavit Iesu ut oscularetur eum.
[google translate: And while he yet spake, behold, a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, was going before them: and he drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.]
Luk 22:47 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
And while he was speaking, behold, a crowd with him who was called Judas, one of the twelve, came before them. And he came near to Jesus and kissed him, for he had given this sign to them, "Whomever I kiss is him."
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When Luke 24:1 was originally written, do you think it did, or didn't, mention things still being "dark"? Greek and Latin mss. don't mention such, while in contrast, the Aramaic Peshi tta and the by-A.D. 175 Diatesseron *do* mention that.
Hat tip:
http://www.everlastingkingdom.info/gb4.html#luk24
Luke 24:1, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) But on the first (day) in the week, in the morning, while yet dark, they came to the sepulchre, and brought those aromatics which they had prepared; and with them there were other women.
(KJV) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
(Clementine Vulgate) Una autem Sabbati valde diluculo venerunt ad monumentum, portantes quæ paraverant, aromata:
[modified google translate: maybe: Very early on Saturday at early dawn, they came unto the sepulcher, bringing the spices they had prepared:]
Diatessaron, Section LII
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
45 And in the evening of the sabbath, which is the morning of the first day, and in the dawning while the darkness yet remained, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary and other women to see the tomb. They brought with them the perfume which they had prepared, and said among themselves, Who is it that will remove for us the stone from the door of the tomb? for it was very great.
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When Luke 6:35 was originally written, do you think it did, or didn't, have an "and" after "lend" (as is the case with the Aramaic Peshi tta and with the by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron)?
What do you think Luke 6:35 originally meant?:
"and lend, hoping for nothing in return"
"and lend, in nothing despairing"
"and lend, driving no man to despair"
"and lend, and do not cut off the hope of any person"
Diatessaron, Section IX
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
[~18] But love your enemies, and do good to them, and lend, and cut not off the hope of any man;
that your reward may be great, and ye may be the children of the Highest: for he is lenient towards the wicked and the ungrateful.
Luke 6:35
https://biblehub.com/luke/6-35.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/6-35.htm
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
"But love your enemies and treat them well and lend and do not cut off the hope of any person,
and your reward shall be great and you shall be the children of The Highest because he is kind toward the evil and toward the unbelievers."
(NKJV)
But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return;
and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.
Greek:
mēden/ μηδὲν/ nothing
apelpizontes/ ἀπελπίζοντες
560. apelpizó
https://biblehub.com/greek/560.htm
apelpizó: to despair of
Original Word: ἀπελπίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apelpizó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-el-pid'-zo)
Definition: to despair of
Usage: I give up in despair, despair of; I hope to receive from or in return.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apo and elpizó
575. apo
https://biblehub.com/greek/575.htm
apo: from, away from
Original Word: ἀπό
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: apo
Phonetic Spelling: (apo')
Definition: from, away from
Usage: from, away from.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a preposition and a prim. particle
Definition
from, away from
NASB Translation
after (1), against (4), ago (2), alike* (1), among (2), away (3), away* (1), because (9), before* (1), belonged (1), deserting* (1), distance (1), hereafter* (1), initiative (1), left (1), off (1), once* (1), since (11), since* (3), some (1), way (1).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 575: ἀπό
ἀπό (from Homer down), preposition with the genitive (Latina,ab,abs, German von,ab,weg (cf. English of, off)), from, signifying now separation, now origin. On its use in the N. T., in which the influence of the Hebrew מִן is traceable, cf. Winers Grammar, 864f (342), 369ff (346ff); Buttmann, 321ff (276ff).
1679. elpizó
https://biblehub.com/greek/1679.htm
elpizó: to expect, to hope (for)
Original Word: ἐλπίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: elpizó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-pid'-zo)
Definition: to expect, to hope (for)
Usage: I hope, hope for, expect, trust.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 1679 elpízō (from 1680 /elpís, "hope") – to hope, actively waiting for God's fulfillment about the faith He has inbirted through the power of His love (cf. Gal 5:6 with Heb 11:1). See 1680 (elpis).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from elpomai (to anticipate, expect)
Definition
to expect, to hope (for)
NASB Translation
expect (1), expected (1), fix...hope (2), fixed...hope (2), hope (13), hoped (3), hopes (1), hoping (4), set...hope (2), trust (1).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1679: ἐλπίζω
ἐλπίζω; imperfect ἠλπιζον; Attic future ἐλπιῶ (Matthew 12:21, and often in the Sept. ((whence in Romans 15:12); cf. Buttmann, 37 (32); Winer's Grammar, § 13, 1 c.); the common form ἐλπίσω does not occur in Biblical Greek); 1 aorist ἤλπισα; perfect ἠλπικα; (present passive ἐλπίζομαι); (ἐλπίς, which see); the Sept. for בָּטַח to trust; חָסָה to flee for refuge; יִחֵל to wait, to hope; to hope (in a religious sense, to wait for salvation with joy and full of confidence): ....
Peculiar to Biblical Greek is the construction of this verb with prepositions and a case of noun or pronoun (cf. Buttmann, 175f (152f) (cf. 337 (290); Winer's Grammar, § 33, d.; Ellicott on 1 Timothy 4:10)): εἰς τινα, to direct hope unto one, John 5:45 (perfect ἠλπίκατε, in whom you have put your hope, and rely upon it (Winer's Grammar, § 40, 4 a.)); 1 Peter 3:5 L T Tr WH; with addition of ὅτι with future 2 Corinthians 1:10 (L text Tr WH brackets ὅτι, and so detach the following clause); ἐπί τίνι, to build hope on one, as on a foundation (often in the Sept.): Romans 15:12 (from Isaiah 11:10); 1 Timothy 4:10; 1 Timothy 6:17; ἐν τίνι, to repose hope in one, 1 Corinthians 15:19; followed by infinitive Philippians 2:19; ἐπί with according to direct hope toward something: ἐπί τί, to hope to receive something, 1 Peter 1:13; ἐπί τόν Θεόν, of those who hope for something from God, 1 Peter 3:5 R G; 1 Timothy 5:5, (and often in the Sept.). (Compare: ἀπελπίζω, προελπίζω.)
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/6-35.htm
Hoping for nothing again.—Better, _in nothing losing hope_. It is possible that the Greek verb may have the sense given in the text, but its uniform signification in the LXX. (as in Ecclesiasticus 22:21-24; Ecclesiasticus 27:21), which must be allowed great weight in interpreting a writer like St. Luke, is that of "giving up hope," _despairing_. And this gives, it is obvious, a meaning not less admirable than that of the received version, "Give and lend according to the law of Christ, and do not let the absence of immediate profit make you lose heart and hope." There is a "great reward." The last words at least remind us of the promise made to Abraham, and may be interpreted by it. God Himself is our "exceeding great reward" (Genesis 15:1). One or two MSS. give a masculine instead of a neuter pronoun after the verb, and in that case the verb must be taken as transitive. We have accordingly to choose between _in nothing despairing_, or _driving no man to despair_. On the whole, the former seems preferable. So taken, we may compare it with St. Paul's description of "charity" or "love," as "hoping all things" (1Corinthians 13:7), and his counsel, "Be not weary in well doing" (Galatians 6:9).
Luk 6:35 (APNT)
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
But love your enemies and do good to them and lend and do not cut off the hope of anyone,
and your reward will be increased and you will be the sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the evil and to the unthankful.
Luke 6:35, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) But love your adversaries, and do good to them, and lend, and cut not off the hope of any one;
and great shall be your reward, and you shall be the children of the Most High; for he is benign to the evil and to the ungrateful.
(Murdock) But love ye your enemies, and do them good; and lend ye, and disappoint the hopes of no one:
and great will be your reward, and ye will be children of the Highest; for he is kind to the evil, and to the unthankful.
(Lamsa) But love your enemies, and do good to them, and lend, and do not cut off any man's hope;
so your reward will increase, and you will become sons of the Highest; for he is gracious to the wicked and the cruel.
(KJV) But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again;
and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
(Clementine Vulgate) Verumtamen diligite inimicos vestros: benefacite, et mutuum date, nihil inde sperantes:
et erit merces vestra multa, et eritis filii Altissimi, quia ipse benignus est super ingratos et malos.
[google translate: But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return;
and your reward will be great and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.]
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When Luke 7:24 was originally written, do you think it had: disciples? messengers?
Luke 7:24
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
https://biblehub.com/luke/7-24.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/7-24.htm
(Berean Literal Bible)
And the messengers [Greek: angelōn/ ἀγγέλων] of John having departed, He began to speak to the crowds concerning John: "What have you gone out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind?
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
But when the disciples [Aramaic: th-l-m-i-d-u-hi] of Yohannan left, he began to say to the crowds about Yohannan, "What did you go out to the wilderness to see? A reed being shaken by the wind?"
by-A.D. 175 Diatessaron, Section XIII
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
[~44] And when John's disciples departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? a reed shaken with the winds?
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When Luke 7:28 was originally written, do you think it had: prophet? Baptist?
Luke 7:28 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+7%3A28&version=HCSB
I tell you, among those born of women no one is greater than John,[a]
but the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."
a: Other mss read _women is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist_
Luke 7:28, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) I tell you, that no prophet among those born of women (hath been) greater than Juchanon the Baptizer.
Yet the least in the kingdom of Aloha is greater than he.
(Murdock) I say to you, that no prophet, among those born of women, was greater than John the Baptizer:
and yet the little one in the kingdom of God, is greater than he.
(Lamsa) I say to you that there is no prophet among those who are born of women, who is greater than John the Baptist;
and yet even the least person in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
(KJV) For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:
but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
(Clementine Vulgate) Dico enim vobis: Maior inter natos mulierum propheta Ioanne Baptista nemo est.
Qui autem minor est in regno Dei, maior est illo.
[google translate at one point had: ....greater prophet than John the Baptist....]
:Chinscratch: I've been thinking perhaps it will take the millenium ("the thousand years") for us to learn God's Word.. maybe part of the reason for it taking such a long duration is because we will have to learn the Aramaic and Hebrew.. ?
To be fit to serve during the duration called "the judgment".
:Chinscratch: ?
Even if during the pause of, or during the holding back of Seal 6 after its first occurrence, two great crowds/folds will be sealed with the Seal of God on their foreheads, which I assume means clarity given. There being two crowds in Revelation chapter 7, because one is numbered/counted, and one is too many to number/count. (Seal 6 however described in its totality of effect from its first to last [occurrence]).
For Mt 25:1, both the Aramaic Peshi tta and the by-A.D. 175 Diatesseron have "the bridegroom and the bride." When Mt 25:1 was originally written, did it say:
"the bridegroom and the bride"? or merely "the bridegroom"?
Matthew 25:1
http://web.ovc.edu/terry/tc/lay03mat.htm
TEXT: "and went out to meet the bridegroom."
EVIDENCE: S B C K L W X2 Delta Pi f13 28 33 565 700 892 1010 1241 Byz Lect syr(h,pal) cop
TRANSLATIONS: KJV ASV RSV NASV NIV NEB TEV
RANK: C
NOTES: "and went out to meet the bridegroom and the bride."
EVIDENCE: D X* Theta f1 1195*vid lat vg syr(s,p,h+)
TRANSLATIONS: RSVn
COMMENTS: While it is possible that the words "and the bride" were omitted by copyists to focus the parable on the bridegroom, who represents Christ, it is more likely that the words were added by other copyists to reflect the custom of the bridegroom bringing the bride back to his house for the wedding.
Matthew 25:1, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) THEN shall be likened the kingdom of heaven unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom and the bride.
(KJV) Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
(Clementine Vulgate) Tunc simile erit regnum cælorum decem virginibus: quæ accipientes lampades suas exierunt obviam sponso, et sponsæ.
[google translate: Then heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps went out to meet the groom and the bride.]
Diatessaron, Section XLIII
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
9 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be like unto ten virgins, those that took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom and the bride.
Quote from: marie glen on November 16, 2019, 06:54:01 PMI've been thinking perhaps it will take the millenium ("the thousand years") for us to learn God's Word.. maybe part of the reason for it taking such a long duration is because we will have to learn the Aramaic and Hebrew.. ?
To be fit to serve during the duration called "the judgment".
I suspect that the Millennium already occurred, either by the end of A.D. 70, or by the end of A.D. 1070. Very-limited humans on earth have learned Hebrew, and have learned Aramaic, reasonably well, despite it not being their native tongue.
Do you think the writer of Mark should have used the Greek word for Saturday, instead of using a transliteration of Hebrew/Aramaic?
Mark 3 (YLT)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%203&version=YLT
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/3-2.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/mark/3-4.htm
1 And he entered again into the synagogue, and there was there a man having the hand withered,
2 and they were watching him, whether on the sabbaths [Greek: sabbasin/ σάββασιν/ Sabbaths] he will heal him, that they might accuse him.
3 And he saith to the man having the hand withered, 'Rise up in the midst.'
4 And he saith to them, 'Is it lawful on the sabbaths [Greek: sabbasin/ σάββασιν/ Sabbaths] to do good, or to do evil? life to save, or to kill?' but they were silent.
5 And having looked round upon them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their heart, he saith to the man, 'Stretch forth thy hand;' and he stretched forth, and his hand was restored whole as the other;
6 and the Pharisees having gone forth, immediately, with the Herodians, were taking counsel against him how they might destroy him.
4521. sabbaton
https://biblehub.com/greek/4521.htm
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sabbaton
Phonetic Spelling: (sab'-bat-on)
Definition: the Sabbath, the seventh day (of the week)
Usage: the Sabbath, a week.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of Hebrew origin shabbath
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Do you think Jesus was "angry" in connection with Lazarus' death?
John 11:33
https://biblehub.com/john/11-33.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/john/11-33.htm
http://dukhrana.com
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
(HCSB) When Jesus saw her crying, and the Jews who had come with her crying, He was angry [Greek: ἐνεβριμήσατο/ enebrimēsato] in His spirit and deeply moved.
(Etheridge) But Jeshu, when he saw her weeping, and those Jihudoyee who came with her weeping, he was moved [Aramaic: a-th-ai-z-z: he groaned] in his spirit, and was troubled,
(Murdock) And when Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews weeping who came with her, he was moved in spirit, and was agitated.
1690. embrimaomai
https://biblehub.com/greek/1690.htm
embrimaomai: to be moved with anger, to admonish sternly
Original Word: ἐμβριμάομαι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: embrimaomai
Phonetic Spelling: (em-brim-ah'-om-ahee)
Definition: to be moved with anger, to admonish sternly
Usage: I snort (with the notion of coercion springing out of displeasure, anger, indignation, antagonism), express indignant displeasure with some one; I charge sternly.
HELPS Word-studies
1690 embrimáomai (from 1722 /en, "engaged in" and brimaomai, "to snort") – properly, snort like an angry horse; (literally) "snort (roar) with rage" (BAGD) which expresses strong indignation....
CAL
http://cal.huc.edu/getlex.php?coord=620431133&word=10
(zz verb Dt
ˁzz vb. to be strong; to rage
OA peal impf. yˁz; pael ....
G
1 to be strong OA. --(a) ... : to invade Syr.
2 to be heavy Syr.
3 (sea) to rage Syr, JBAmb.
4 pass. ptc.: excited Sam.
D
1 to strengthen, fortify OA, Sam.
2 to revive, refresh Man.
Dt
1 to be made strong Syr.
2 to be made powerful Syr.
3 to rage Syr.
4 to be exacerbated Syr.
5 to groan Syr.
6 to be angry Syr.
7 to threaten Syr.
John 11:38
https://biblehub.com/john/11-38.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/11-38.htm
http://dukhrana.com
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-interlinear-search
(HCSB) Then Jesus, angry [Greek: embrimōmenos/ ἐμβριμώμενος] in Himself again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone was lying against it.
(Etheridge) Jeshu, groaning [Aramaic: m-th-ai-z-z: groaning] within himself, came to the house of burial; and that house of burial was a cave, and a stone was laid at the gate of it.
(Murdock) And Jesus, still agitated within, came to the grave. Now the grave was a cave, and a stone was laid upon its entrance.
What do you think better characterizes Jesus' state of mind in Jn 11:33, 38: the Greek-- which twice calls Jesus "angry"-- or the Latin?
If you think Jesus was "angry," with who or what was he angry?
http://dukhrana.com
John 11:33 - Iesus ergo, ut vidit eam plorantem, et Iudæos, qui venerant cum ea, plorantes, infremuit spiritu, et turbavit seipsum,
[google translate: Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her, was deeply moved in spirit and troubled. Or maybe: ....he groaned in the spirit....]
John 11:38 - Iesus ergo rursum fremens in semetipso, venit ad monumentum. Erat autem spelunca: et lapis superpositus erat ei.
[google translate: Jesus, again greatly disturbed, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone was lying against it. Or maybe: Jesus, deeply moved again....]
Quote from: DavidFord on November 17, 2019, 03:14:00 AM
Quote from: marie glen on November 16, 2019, 06:54:01 PMI've been thinking perhaps it will take the millenium ("the thousand years") for us to learn God's Word.. maybe part of the reason for it taking such a long duration is because we will have to learn the Aramaic and Hebrew.. ?
To be fit to serve during the duration called "the judgment".
I suspect that the Millennium already occurred, either by the end of A.D. 70, or by the end of A.D. 1070. Very-limited humans on earth have learned Hebrew, and have learned Aramaic, reasonably well, despite it not being their native tongue.
oh I'm talking about "the thousand years" that Revelation chapter 20 talks about..
"angry" that is strange.. tho we know John likely wrote in Aramaic..
Jesus had followers who saw what he was doing. Does it make sense to you for people to urge Jesus to go to Judea, so that his followers would see the works that he was doing?
Do you agree with Torrey that for Jn 7:3, there's an "absurd reading of our Greek text"?
John 6:12 (HCSB)
https://biblehub.com/john/6-12.htm
When they were full, He told His disciples, "Collect the leftovers so that nothing is wasted."
John 7:3 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/john/7-3.htm
Therefore His brothers said to Him, "Depart from here and go into Judea, so that Your disciples will also see Your works that You are doing.
John 6:71-7:5 (based on Younan, modified), http://dukhrana.com
6:71. Now he was speaking concerning Yehuda the son of Shimon Skaryota, for he was about to betray him, being one from the twelve.
7:1. After these things Yeshua was walking in Galeela, for he did not desire to walk in Yehud because the Yehudeans were seeking to kill him. 2. And the Feast of Tabernacles of the Yehudeans was drawing near. 3. And his brothers said to him-- to Yeshua:
"Depart from here and go to Yehud, that they may see talmidik [your students/disciples] (and) the works that you do. 4. For there is no man who does anything secretly, yet he desires that it be in the open. If you do these things, show yourself to the world"--
5. for not even his brothers had believed in him-- in Yeshua.
_Our Translated Gospels: Some of the Evidence_ (1936), 172pp. by Charles Cutler Torrey. On 155, 158
https://archive.org/details/OurTranslatedGospelsCCTorrey/page/n1
Exhibit XXV. Slight Corruption (_waw_ inserted or omitted). ....
c. Jn. 7:3 ac. to Grk.: His brethren said to him, Go forth, get away to Judea, so that YOUR DISCIPLES ALSO MAY SEE YOUR "WORKS" WHICH YOU PERFORM (....[snip Aramaic letters]....).
True rendering: ... Go forth ... to Judea, so that THEY MAY SEE your "disciples" AND the "works" (lit., _your_^33 works) which you perform (same Aramaic text, except for the conjunction in ....[snip Aramaic letters]....).
33: The suffixed pronoun would be used here in the Aramaic, but its rendering in the Greek translation is decidedly unpleasing.
....
Exhibit XXV, C (Jn. 7:3). The absurd reading of our Greek text hardly needs comment; notice however that the next verse bids Jesus show his wonders to the world (not simply to a band of obscure and over-credulous Galileans)!
The reason of the mistake made by the translator (or copyist?) is as obvious as any error of translating can be: the subject of the verb, "that they may see," is the indefinite plural which is omnipresent in Aramaic; while its direct object, "your disciples," immediately following, holds the place ordinarily occupied by the subject. Any rapidly working scribe or translator of the Aramaic text would therefore have been likely to omit or overlook the following waw. Another of the many unquestionable proofs of a translated Fourth Gospel.
John 7:3 His natural brothers, the context says, did not believe.. so they said to Him why not go to the feast ..."so your followers.." (presumedly there) would see His works.. kind of a mocking thing..
Context and also all pertaining verses concerning a topic or doctrine, are so important.
There's the extreme of never ever looking beyond the translations.. Accepting things as handed down to you from human leaders (and translators)..
Or the other extreme - as everything has two extremes? - getting bogged down in minutiae that doesn't really do anything to make the "good news to all" more clearly told..?
It's logical the Lord spoke Aramaic.. so would have said sheol and not the Greek hades, a totally mythic place/idea.. Unfortunately many of the letters of the New Testament were written to nonHebrew groups of believers, and hades is the translation they had.. Or one of them, I heard, which possibly suggests deliberate poor translation(!?) Due to the translators worldview at the time?
But! The Spirit is with us to guide us into all Truth.
I think we are in agreement that the Word - "reasoning expressed in words" of God, is gold and silver. Works (videos, books, etc) about that Word, are secondary at best.
...God's reasoning also expresssed as Jesus!
This is what the world and believers need to hear. God's own words and reasoning. Is there any other reasoning that matters at all? My heartfelt prayer is for His followers, near and far, will hear, see and speak only Truth. His truth, not so much what each one of us thinks about His Word/reasoning. I am constantly amazed at how sincere believers and seekers after the truth of what God is doing (and how? edit, and why) brazenly add to and take away from His Words. "Hath God really ..said..?") Just because the Book of Revelation - the culmination of all this (God's truth proving documentary?) - portrays the results of humanity's doings, via symbol and even metaphor, does not mean the whole Bible is metaphor. Was the virgin birth metaphor? Or how "He was bruised for our iniquity"? If the Word was literal in the past, why is everything future only metaphor? Because metaphor makes self look important (imo that is) .."If it were possible even the very elect would be deceived" .."but the gates of hades (the grave) will not prevail against it.." ..."The Spirit will tell you things to come.." .."four angels/messengERs at the corners/directions hold back the winds.. (while) a great crowd from every nation, tribe and "ethnos" too many to number/count.. and 144,000 (counted) from twelve tribes of Israel.. sealed on their foreheads and no lie is upon their lips, they are virgins.." ..Paul said "..yield yourselves unto God".. "This gospel - the true and accurate gospel - will be preached (told) to ALL nations".. The goood news. I don't think we can understand and thus speak it clearly, without God's seal on our forehead. So that's my prayer for all of us.
When Mark 15:36 was originally written, do you think the guy that "ran and filled a sponge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and" offered it to Jesus to drink, also said:
"Let be/ Let alone/ Stay/ Desist; let us see if Elijah comes to take Him down"? (seen in the Greek and Latin)
Or do you think onlookers-- "they"-- told the guy to stop, and remarked about Elijah? (seen in the Aramaic Peshi tta)
Hat tip:
http://www.everlastingkingdom.info/gb4.html#mar15
Mark 15:36
http://dukhrana.com
https://biblehub.com/mark/15-36.htm
https://aramaicdb.lightofword.org/en/new-parallel-versions-search
(Etheridge) but one ran and filled a sponge with vinegar, and bound it on a rod that he might drink. And they said, Let alone, we will see if Elia cometh to take him down.
(Murdock) And one ran and filled a sponge with vinegar, and tied it on a reed, to offer him drink. And they said: Desist; let us see if Elijah will come to take him down.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) But one ran and filled a sponge with vinegar and tied it on a reed to give him a drink and they said, "Let him alone. Let us see if Elijah comes to take him down."
(APNT) And one ran and filled a sponge [with] vinegar and fastened [it] on a reed to give him to drink. And they said, "Leave [him]! Let us see if Elijah will come to take him down."
(KJV) And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
(YLT) and one having run, and having filled a spunge with vinegar, having put it also on a reed, was giving him to drink, saying, 'Let alone, let us see if Elijah doth come to take him down.'
(Berean Literal Bible) And one having run and having filled a sponge with vinegar, having put it on a reed, gave Him to drink, saying, "Let be; let us see if Elijah comes to take Him down."
(Clementine Vulgate) Currens autem unus, et implens spongiam aceto, circumponensque calamo, potum dabat ei, dicens: Sinite, videamus si veniat Elias ad deponendum eum.
[google translate: One ran, filled a sponge with vinegar, reed, and gave him saying: Let alone; let us see if Elijah will come to take him down.]
(Douay-Rheims) And one running and filling a sponge with vinegar, and putting it upon a reed, gave him to drink, saying: Stay, let us see if Elias come to take him down.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/mark/15-36.htm
saying, or "they said", as the Syriac version reads it; not he that fetched the sponge, but the others that were with him, and which agrees with Matthew 27....;
let alone; as forbidding him to go near him, and offer him any thing to drink:
Matthew 27:49 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/27-49.htm
but the rest said, 'Let alone, let us see if Elijah doth come -- about to save him.'
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
When Mt 26:28 and Mk 14:24 were originally written, do you think they had:
"new covenant"? or merely "covenant"?
(HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=new+covenant&qs_version=HCSB
Jeremiah 31:31 "Look, the days are coming-- "this is the Lord's declaration-- when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
Luke 22:20 In the same way He also took the cup after supper and said, "This cup is the new covenant established by My blood; it is shed for you.
Matthew 26:28 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+26%3A28&version=HCSB
For this is My blood that establishes the covenant;[a] it is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins.
a: Other mss read _new covenant_
Matthew 26:28, https://biblehub.com/matthew/26-28.htm
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) This is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed in exchange for the many for the release of sins.
(Douay-Rheims Bible) For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins.
Mark 14:24 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+14%3A24&version=HCSB
He said to them, "This is My blood that establishes the covenant;[a] it is shed for many.
a: Other mss read _the new covenant_
Mark 14:24, https://biblehub.com/mark/14-24.htm
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English) And he said to them, "This is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed in exchange for the many."
(Douay-Rheims Bible) And he said to them: This is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Do you agree with Greek mss. that those in danger of Gehenna fire include: Jesus? Paul?
Matthew 5:22 (Weymouth NT)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-22.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5-22.htm
But I say to you that every one who becomes angry with his brother shall be answerable to the magistrate;
that whoever says to his brother 'Raca,' [Ῥακά/ Raca: transliteration of an Aramaic word meaning "spit"] shall be answerable to the Sanhedrin;
and that whoever says, 'You fool!' [Greek: 3474 [e] Mōre/ Μωρέ/ Fool] shall be liable to the Gehenna of Fire.
Matthew 23:17 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/23-17.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/23-17.htm
Fools [Greek: 3474 [e] μωροὶ/ mōroi] and blind! for which is greater, the gold, or the sanctuary that is sanctifying the gold?
1 Corinthians 4:9-10 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/ylt/1_corinthians/4.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/4-10.htm
for I think that God did set forth us the apostles last-- as appointed to death, because a spectacle we became to the world, and messengers, and men; we [are] fools [Greek: 3474 [e] μωροὶ/ mōroi] because of Christ, and ye wise in Christ; we [are] ailing, and ye strong; ye glorious, and we dishonoured;
Bible hub's interlinear word for word says it like this - "..this is the blood of Me of the covenant which is being poured out fir many"
I never noticed that before. :thumbsup:
...If we hate.. or dislike for no reason, we are in danger of gehenna fire - either as the state of mind James referred to when speaking of the bitter tongue (inspired by gehenna/misery)
Or by the fiery judgment of the age when it comes (earthly) caught unaware, or eek! become a tare gatherered to Armageddon. Old Testament judgments were always earthly! Then we became paganized and they became 'afterlife'.. (imo)
:gsmile:
Do you think "turned to his disciples" belongs in Lk 10:22?
Both the Aramaic Peshi tta and the by-A.D. 175 Diatesseron have it.
Lk 10:22 (based on Younan)
And he turned to his students and said to them,
"Everything is delivered to me from Abbi [my Father],
and no man knows who the Son is except Abba [the Father],
and who Abba is except the Son,
and to him to whom the Son desires to reveal (Him)."
Diatesseron, Section XV
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/diatessaron.html
37 And in that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit, and said, I acknowledge thee, my Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto children: yea, my Father; so was thy will. And he turned to his disciples, and said unto them, Everything hath been delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, save the Father; and who the Father is, save the Son....
Luke 10:22 (HCSB)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2010%3A22&version=HCSB
All things have[a] been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son desires to reveal Him."
a: Other mss read _And turning to the disciples, He said, "Everything has_
Luke 10:22
https://biblehub.com/texts/luke/10-22.htm
Westcott and Hort / {NA28 variants}
Πάντα μοι παρεδόθη ὑπὸ τοῦ πατρός μου....
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Καὶ στραφεὶς πρὸς τοὺς μαθητὰς εἴπεν,
Πάντα μοι παρεδόθη ὑπὸ τοῦ πατρός μου....
Using google translate on the 1st line of the Byz: And turn to the student said,
"A Textual Commentary on the Greek Gospels Vol. 3 Luke" by Wieland Willker Bremen, online published, 12th edition 2015, page 284, PDF file at
http://www.willker.de/wie/TCG/TC-Luke.pdf
TVU 180
NA28 Luke 10:22 ....
BYZ Luke 10:22 ....
T&T #21
Byz A, C, K, W, X, D, Q, Y, 0115, 124, 174, 230, 346, 983, 1689(=f13), 28, 157,
565, 1071, Maj, it(c, f, ff2, i, l, q, r1), Sy-P, Sy-H
txt P45, P75, 01, B, D, L, M, P, X, 070, f1, f13, 22, 33, 131, 579, 700, 892,
1241, 1342, 1424, 1675, 2737, 2786, al130, Lat(a, aur, b, d, e, vg), Sy-S, Sy-C, Co, arm, geo, goth
When Acts 3:21 was originally written, do you think it spoke of:
restoration of all things?
completion of the times of all those things that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets?
What's a better rendering in Latin:
[Clementine Vulgate]"usque in tempora restitutionis omnium", or
[Irenaeus]"usque ad tempora dispositionis omnium"?
Acts 3:21, http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) whom the heavens must receive until the completion of the times of all those which Aloha hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets, who (have been) from of old.
(Murdock) whom the heavens must retain, until the completion of the times of those things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets of old.
(Lamsa) Whom the heaven must receive until all the things which God has spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets, since the world began should be fulfilled.
(KJV) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(Clementine Vulgate) quem oportet quidem cælum suscipere usque in tempora restitutionis omnium, quæ locutus est Deus per os sanctorum suorum a sæculo Prophetarum.
Google translate of the Latin:
whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution of all things, the things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/acts/3-21.htm
The times of the restitution of all things - The noun rendered restitution ἀποκαταστάσεως apokatastaseōs, does not elsewhere occur in the New Testament. The verb from which it is derived occurs eight times. It means properly "to restore a thing to its former situation," as restoring a "strained" or "dislocated" limb to its former soundness. Hence, it is used to restore, or to heal, in the New Testament: Matthew 12:13, "And it (the hand) was restored whole as the other"; Mark 3:5; Luke 6:10. And hence, it is applied to the preparation or fitness for the coming of the Messiah which was to attend the preaching of John in the character of Elias, Matthew 17:11; Mark 9:12. Thus, in Josephus (Antiq., Mark 2:3, Mark 2:8), the word is used to denote the return of the Jews from the captivity of Babylon, and their restoration to their former state and privileges. The word has also the idea of "consummation, completion, or filling up." Thus, it is used in Philo, Hesychius, Phavorinus, and by the Greek Classics. (See Lightfoot and Kuinoel.) Thus, it is used here by the Syriac: "Until the complement or filling up of the times"; that is, of all the events foretold by the prophets, etc. Thus, the Arabic: "Until the times which shall establish the perfection or completion of all the predictions of the prophets," etc. In this sense the passage means that the heavens must receive the Lord Jesus until all things spoken by the prophets in relation to his work, his reign, the spread of the gospel, the triumph of religion, etc., shall have been fulfilled. It also conveys the idea of the predicted recovery of the world from sin, and the restoration of peace and order; the consummation of the work of the Messiah, now begun, but not yet complete; slow it may be in its advances, but triumphant and certain in its progress and its close.
Acts 3:21
https://biblehub.com/acts/3-21.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/3-21.htm
(Berean Literal Bible) whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times [Greek: chronōn/ χρόνων/ times] of restoration [Greek: apokatastaseōs/ἀποκαταστάσεως/ restoration] of all things, of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age [Greek: aiōnos/ αἰῶνος/ age].
605. apokatastasis
https://biblehub.com/greek/605.htm
apokatastasis: restoration
Original Word: ἀποκατάστασις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apokatastasis
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ok-at-as'-tas-is)
Definition: restoration
Usage: restitution, reestablishment, restoration.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 605 apokatástasis (from 600 /apokathístēmi, "restore") – restitution, referring to the "restoration of the physical earth in the Messianic kingdom (Millennium)" (G. Archer).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apokathistémi
Definition
restoration
NASB Translation
restoration (1).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 605: ἀποκατάστασις
ἀποκατάστασις, ἀποκαταστάσεως, ἡ (ἀποκαθίστημι, which see), restoration: τῶν πάντων, the restoration not only of the true theocracy but also of that more perfect state of (even physical) things which existed before the fall, Acts 3:21; cf. Meyer at the passage (Often in Polybius, Diodorus, Plutarch, others.)
600. apokathistémi
https://biblehub.com/greek/600.htm
apokathistémi: to restore, give back
Original Word: ἀποκαθίστημι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apokathistémi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ok-ath-is'-tay-mee)
Definition: to restore, give back
Usage: I set up again, restore to its original position or condition; hence: I restore, give back.
HELPS Word-studies
600 apokathístēmi (from 570 /apistía, "separated from" and 2525 /kathístēmi, "have a definite standing") – properly, restore back to original standing, i.e. that existed before a fall; re-establish, returning back to the (ultimate) ideal; (figuratively) restore back to full freedom (the liberty of the original standing); to enjoy again, i.e. what was taken away by a destructive or life-dominating power.
600/apokathistēmi ("reestablish") emphasizes separation from the former, negative influence to enjoy what is forward (the restoration).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apo and kathistémi
Definition
to restore, give back
NASB Translation
restore (2), restored (5), restoring (1).
St. Irenaeus (c. A.D. 130 – c. 202) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus
_The Third Book of St. Irenaeus Against Heresies_ (1906)
https://archive.org/stream/thirdbookstirena00irenuoft/thirdbookstirena00irenuoft_djvu.txt
44 The fulfilment of Prophecy in the [xii. 3-
fecistis nequam. Deus autem quae praedixit ore omnium Prophetarum, pati Christum suum, adimplevit. Poenitentiam igitur agite, et convertimini, uti deleantur peccata vestra, et veniant vobis tempora refrigerii a facie Domini; et mittat praeparatum vobis Jesum Christum, quern oportet quidem coelum suscipere usque ad tempora dispositionis omnium, quae locutus est Deus per sanctos Prophetas suos. Moyses quidem dicit ad patres nostros : [Deut. xviii. 15] Quom am Prophetam excitabit vobis Dominus Deus vester ex fratribus Vestris, quemadmodum me; ipsum audietis in omnibus quaecumque locutus fuerit ad vos. Erit autem : omnis anima, quaccumque non audierit Prophetam ilium, peribit de populo. Et omnes a Samuel et deinceps, quotquot loculi sunt, et annuntiaverunt dies istos. Vos estis filii Prophetarum, et testamenti quod Deus [Gen. xxii. 18] disposuit ad patres nostros, dicens ad Abraham: Et in semine tuo benedicentur omnes tribus terrae. Vobis primum Deus excitans Filium suum misit benedicentem vos, ut convertat se unusquisque a nequitiis suis.
Via playing with Google translate on "quern oportet quidem coelum suscipere usque ad tempora dispositionis omnium":
whom heaven indeed must receive until the times of the arrangement of all that God spoke through his holy prophets
whom heaven indeed must receive until the times of the disposal of all things, which God hath spoken by means of his prophets, the saints,
who must remain in heaven until the time of the disposition of all that God has spoken through his holy prophets
Wow! Thank you! That was awesome!
I like the Google translate of the Latin best -
whom it behoveth heaven, indeed, to receive till times of a restitution of all things, the things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21)
The ‘play’ with the verse/word at the end is perfect too! “The disposal..”
I had been thinking how impossible the idea of any sort of ‘hell’ to exist into God’s return of all things into perfection. Then a very vivid imagination of gehenna, large city ‘town dump’ where even animal bodies were thrown, and the worms didn’t die out.. so the kept the fires burning.. That image with this verse/truth in mind is proven so very false!
It’s hard for us to believe in ..perfection. But He IS Perfection. (Mt.5:48) His attribute is to be always Most High and always Perfect. Logically, root word logos, nothing else is possible. Because, logically (imo:) He is Life itself. The spark, breath, freedom of Life.
So, imperfection is that gehenna condition of corruption, decay, dissolution. And, death. This is the “iron” rod (of life). What is reaped is what is sown. He’s spoken it clearly through the mouths of His prophets, imperfection is the pit(s). Their bottom is endless.
But God (our Father who is Love) is able to bring it all back. :faint:
For John 14:2, the UBS Peshi tta has "w-a-l-a," while the Khabouris mss. has "w-a-n l-a."
http://dukhrana.com/peshi tta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+14:2&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
http://dukhrana.com/peshi tta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+14:2&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
_Our Translated Gospels: Some of the Evidence_ (1936), 172pp.
by Charles Cutler Torrey. On 108, 113-114
https://archive.org/details/OurTranslatedGospelsCCTorrey/page/n1
Exhibit XIX. Wrong Vocalization of the Aramaic. ....
c. Jn. 14:2 ac. to Grk.: In my Father's house are many
dwellings; IF NOT (.... [snip pointed Aramaic having "w-l-a"] ....),
I would have told you that I go to prepare a place for you.
....
Exhibit XIX, C (Jn. 14:2). What the Grk. gives in
the second half of the verse, whether the words are taken
as a question or as a declaration, is mere nonsense. In this
case also, corruption of the Grk. text and editorial alteration
have been suspected; but here again, as in the preceding
example and as usual, the reading of the original Aram.
was faultless. It was the translator who made the trouble.
The solution of the difficulty is ridiculously simple, and is
certain. That which Jesus says here he repeats, in almost
the same words, in 16:7: _"I tell you the truth, it is better
for you that I go away."_ The verb here rendered "it is better"
is presumably the same which was employed in the
present passage, for it is regularly used in both meanings.
The _necessity_ is again emphasized at the end of the chapter,
vs. 31; but the time when the eleven most needed to have
this declared to them was at the beginning of this discourse,
after Jesus had so disturbed them by announcing that he
was soon to leave them.
The word _wale_ ["-" over: "a" and "e"], "it is fitting, expedient,
necessary," is very likely to be mistaken for the omnipresent
_wela_ [curved upward "-" shape over "e," and "-" over "a"],
"and not." (I have seen this mistake made many times by students
reading unpointed Syriac texts.) It was for this reason, evidently,
that the word disappears from the beginning of the
verse Targ. Prov. 24:26 in so many mss. and editions; see
Levy's _Worterbuch_. For the reading "if not, otherwise," the
best examples are 2 Sam. 13:26 and 2 Ki. 5:17. Another
example, generally unrecognized, even by the learned Heb.
tradition, is 1 Sam. 20:12.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God didn't spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
Do you think some angels were shut up in: Tartarus? "the deeps"? "infernal regions"? "the lowest depths"? "chains (seirais) of darkness"? "dungeons (sirois) of darkness"?
2 Peter 2:4 (NKJV) For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [a: Lit. Tartarus] hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
translations from Aramaic, from http://dukhrana.com
(Etheridge) For if Aloha upon the angels who sinned was not lenient, but in chains of darkness shut them in the deeps, and delivered them to be kept to the judgment of pain;
(Murdock) For, if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to the infernal regions in chains of darkness, and delivered them up to be kept unto the judgment of torture,
2 Peter 2 (Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/2_peter/2.htm
4 And if God did not spare the Angels who sinned, but cast them down in chains* of darkness into the lowest depths* and handed them over to be kept for the judgment of torment*, 5 And he did not spare The First World but he preserved Noah, the eighth man, a Preacher of righteousness, when he brought a flood over the world of the wicked, 6 And when he burned the cities of Sadom and Amorah and condemned them in an overthrow, when he set an example to the wicked who were to come,
Glenn David Bauscher, _The Original Aramaic New Testament in Plain English- with Psalms & Proverbs_ 7th edition (2012), 610pp. On 559:
Greek has ... -"Tatarused", "Cast into Tartarus"? - a participle from "Tartarus" not found anywhere else in Greek literature. The noun form - "T..." is found in The LXX (Job 40:20) where it refers to "the quadrapeds in _the deep_". This use of the noun is much more in keeping with the meaning of the Aramaic in this verse ... (tekhtytha) - "the depths".
Textual Issues: 2 Peter 2:4
http://www.jeffriddle.net/2010/11/textual-isues-2-peter-24.html
The major issue in this verse is over whether the text should read "chains (seirais) of darkness" or "dungeons (sirois) of darkness."
External evidence:
"Chains" is supported by p72, P, Psi, and the Majority of manuscripts. This is the reading that appears in the traditional text, and it is also the reading adopted by the modern critical Greek text.
"dungeons" is supported by Sinaiticus. Codices Alexandrinus and Vaticanus also offer support but apparently alter the spelling from sirois to seirois.
2 Peter 2:4
http://web.ovc.edu/terry/tc/lay272pt.htm
TEXT: "committed [them] to chains of gloom to be kept"
EVIDENCE: p72 K P Psi 33 104 614 630 945 1241 1739 1881 2495 Byz Lect some lat vg syr(ph,h) cop(north)
TRANSLATIONS: KJV ASVn NIVn NEBn TEV
RANK: D
NOTES: "committed [them] to caverns of gloom to be kept"
EVIDENCE: S {A B C 81} one lat cop(south)
TRANSLATIONS: ASV RSV NASV NIV NEB TEVn
COMMENTS: There are only two letters' difference between "chains" and "caverns" in Greek, and the evidence in braces misspells "caverns" in such a way that there is only one letter's difference between them.
For Matthew 25:46, the Peshi tta has a word that appears to mean 'torment, affliction.'
There's no indication in the Aramaic (nor the Greek, IMO) that the torment/affliction suffered serves a positive purpose.
Peshi tta/o verses that contains lexeme 1:3278
http://dukhrana.com/peshi tta/sedra_concordance.php?adr=1:3278&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25&source=
Matthew 4:24
Matthew 25:46
Luke 16:28
Revelation 9:5
Revelation 14:11
Revelation 18:10
2851. kolasis
https://biblehub.com/greek/2851.htm
kolasis: correction
Original Word: κόλασις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: kolasis
Phonetic Spelling: (kol'-as-is)
Definition: correction
Usage: chastisement, punishment, torment, perhaps with the idea of deprivation.
....
κόλασις, κολάσεως, ἡ (κολάζω), correction, punishment, penalty: Matthew 25:46; κόλασιν ἔχει,brings with it or has connected with it the thought of punishment, 1 John 4:18. (Ezekiel 14:3f, etc.; 2 Macc. 4:38; 4 Macc. 8:8; Wis. 11:14 Wis. 16:24, etc.; Plato, Aristotle, Diodorus 1, 77 (9); 4, 44 (3); Aelian v. h. 7, 15; others.) [SYNONYMS: κόλασις, τιμωρία: the noted definition of Aristotle, which distinguishes κόλασις from τιμωρία as that which (is disciplinary and) has reference to him who suffers, while the latter (is penal and) has reference to the satisfaction of him who inflicts, may be found in his rhet. 1, 10, 17; cf. Cope, Introduction to Aristotle, Rhet., p. 232. To much the same effect, Plato, Protag. 324 a. and following, also deff. 416. But, as in other cases, usage (especially the later) does not always recognize the distinction; see e. g. Philo de legat. ad Gaium § 1 at the end; fragment ex Eusebius prepos. evang. 8, 13 (Mang. 2:641); de vita Moys. 1:16 at the end; Plato de sera num. vind. §§ 9, 11, etc. Plutarch (ibid. § 25 under the end) uses κολάζομαι of those undergoing the penalties of the other world (cf. Justin Martyr, Apology 1, 8; Clement of Rome, 2 Cor. 6, 7 [ET]; Justin Martyr, Apology 1, 43; 2, 8; Test xii. Patr., test. Reub. 5; test. Levi 4, etc.; Martyr. Polycarp, 2, 3 [ET]; 11, 2 [ET]; Ignatius ad Rom. 5, 3 [ET]; Martyr Ignatius vat. 5 etc.). See Trench, Synonyms, § vii.; McClellan, New Testament, vol. i., margin references on Matt. as above; Bartlett, Life and Death Eternal. Note G.; C. F. Hudson, Debt and Grace, p. 188ff; Schmidt, chapter 167, 2f.]
....
Matthew 25:46 N-AFS ....
1 John 4:18 N-AFS .... KJV: fear hath torment. He that feareth
Hi David
so does your point make it more likely in temporary punishment than forever? I didn't quite understand. Also does that "fear hath torment" verse differ from other uses of torment in the bible?
I don't really get what David is trying to say, but my interpretation of "fear has torment" is that we are told NOT to fear because of the negative effects of fear. Fear doesn't produce good fruit. Perfect love casts out fear. Therefore, fear is not of God, and produces torment with no positive end result. It has nothing to do with hell or duration of a punishment, fear is something we do to OURSELVES.
Quote from: Andrew on December 31, 2019, 04:07:28 PMso does your point make it more likely in temporary punishment than forever?
My comment was about the beneficial vs. non-beneficial vs. unspecified nature of the affliction, and not about its length.
For Matthew 25:46, both the original Aramaic (and the Greek translation) speak of a world/age of torment. Neither the Aramaic nor the Greek say the torment is corrective in nature; I believe the torment is corrective in nature and serves a positive purpose, but one can't derive 'it is corrective' from the Aramaic, nor from the Greek.
Quotedoes that "fear hath torment" verse differ from other uses of torment in the bible?
Peshi tta/o verses with the lexeme 1:3278 are: Matthew 4:24, 25:46; Luke 16:28; Revelation 9:5, 14:11, 18:10. Those verses speak of torment/affliction.
The Greek translation has "kolasin/ κόλασιν," which appears only twice in the Greek NT-- https://biblehub.com/greek/kolasin_2851.htm -- and which speaks of punishment/torment/affliction.
Matthew 25:46 (Young's Literal Translation)
https://biblehub.com/matthew/25-46.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/25-46.htm
And these shall go away to punishment [Greek: kolasin/ κόλασιν] age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
1 John 4:18 (Weymouth NT)
https://biblehub.com/1_john/4-18.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_john/4-18.htm
Love has in it no element of fear; but perfect love drives away fear, because fear involves pain [Greek: kolasin/ κόλασιν], and if a man gives way to fear, there is something imperfect in his love.
In looking at these links, I fail to notice a strong reason to think that the word "kolasin/ κόλασιν" _must_ have a meaning that involves producing a beneficial effect:
2851. kolasis
https://biblehub.com/greek/2851.htm
2849. kolazó
https://biblehub.com/greek/2849.htm
Acts 4:21 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/acts/4-21.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/acts/4-21.htm
And they having further threatened them, let them go, finding nothing how they may punish [Greek: κολάσωνται/ kolasōntai/ they might punish] them, because of the people, because all were glorifying God for that which hath been done,
2 Peter 2:9 (Berean Literal Bible)
https://biblehub.com/2_peter/2-9.htm
https://biblehub.com/text/2_peter/2-9.htm
then the Lord knows to deliver the devout out of temptation and to keep the unrighteous being punished [Greek: κολαζομένους/ kolazomenous/ being punished] unto the day of judgment,
Does 1Cor 9:22 read: "save everyone"? "save some"?
1Corinthians 9:22
http://dukhrana.com/peshi tta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=1Corinthians+9:22&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) I become with the weak as weak, that the weak I may gain.
To all men all become I, that every man I may save.
(Murdock) I was with the weak, as weak, that I might gain the weak:
I was all things to all men, that I might vivify every one.
(KJV) To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak:
I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
(Clementine Vulgate) Factus sum infirmis infirmus, ut infirmos lucrifacerem.
Omnibus omnia factus sum, ut omnes facerem salvos.
google translate: I became weak, so weak.
I have become all things to all, that I may by all means save some.
The same Latin has been rendered "that I might save all":
From http://www.latinvulgate.com/lv/verse.aspx?t=1&b=7&c=9
factus sum infirmis infirmus ut infirmos lucri facerem
omnibus omnia factus sum ut omnes facerem salvos
To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak.
I became all things to all men, that I might save all.
Mss. that lack "some" include: DEFG it vg
-- looking at https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/9-22.htm and
_The Byzantine Text-Type and New Testament Textual Criticism_ by Harry Sturz (1984), 305pp., 185
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0840749589/
Quote from: GodIsLove on December 31, 2019, 04:49:50 PM
I don't really get what David is trying to say, but my interpretation of "fear has torment" is that we are told NOT to fear because of the negative effects of fear. Fear doesn't produce good fruit. Perfect love casts out fear. Therefore, fear is not of God, and produces torment with no positive end result. It has nothing to do with hell or duration of a punishment, fear is something we do to OURSELVES.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :iagree:
I like/LOVE these verses for what I consider giving great clarity.
Jesus said, John 5:28-29 - "...all in the tombs" (graves) "will hear His voice and will come forth" (out of the graves/tombs) some "in the resurrection of life" - (which is at His return, Rev.20) and some in the resurrection of judgment".
Considered WITH - 2 Peter 2:9 - "God knows how to preserve the unrighteous for CORRECTION/kolazo on 'day of judgment."
AND, Matthew 25:45-46, "He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' And these will go away into aionian/agelasting kolazo, but the righteous into aionian life." — It's human (fallible) translators who translated "agelasting correction" into 'everlasting punishment' or sometimes 'everlasting condemnation or contempt' BUT according to what was ORIGINALLY "God breathed"/inspired, it should read "agelasting correction" (I have to think much like some experience now during this age, after all, "a person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven" - John 3:27.
When 2Cor 5:17-18 was originally written, do you think "all things" appeared once, or twice?
Did the passage state that 'God made all things new'?
Did the passage have 'behold'?
2Corinthians 5:17-18
http://dukhrana.com/peshi tta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=2Corinthians+5:17&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
http://dukhrana.com/peshi tta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=2Corinthians+5:18&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
https://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/5-17.htm
https://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/5-18.htm
(KJV)
1 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
2 old things are passed away;
3 *behold, all things* are become new. And *all things* are of God,
4 who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,
5 and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
(Young's Literal Translation)
1 so that if any one is in Christ -- he is a new creature;
2 the old things did pass away,
3 *lo,* become new have the *all things.* And the *all things* are of God,
4 who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ,
5 and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation,
(Etheridge)
1 Whoever therefore is in the Meshiha is a new creature;
2 the old things have passed,
3 and *every thing* hath become new from Aloha,
4 who hath reconciled us to himself in the Meshiha,
5 and given to us the ministry of reconciliation.
(Murdock)
1 Whoever therefore is in the Messiah, is a new creature:
2 old things have passed away;
3 and *all things* are made new, by God;
4 who hath reconciled us to himself by the Messiah,
5 and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.
(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)
1 All that is in The Messiah is therefore The New Creation;
2 the old order has passed away to such.
3 And *everything* has become new from God
4 - he who reconciled us to himself in The Messiah,
5 and he has given us the Ministry of the reconciliation.
I read these verses just recently!
I like the interlinear..
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/5-17.htm
The Berean Literal Bible is closest -
17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, the new has come into being.
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation
{19 how that God was in Christ -- a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation [Young’s Literal Translation]
20 Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God is beseeching through us. We implore on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God. (Berean Literal) “God is love!”
:Peace2:
Quote from: marie glen on January 14, 2020, 03:25:32 AM
I read these verses just recently!
I like the interlinear..
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/5-17.htm
The Berean Literal Bible is closest -
17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, the new has come into being.
18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation
{19 how that God was in Christ -- a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation [Young's Literal Translation]
20 Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God is beseeching through us. We implore on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God. (Berean Literal) "God is love!"
And Father God just a few minutes ago brought my attention to a remark re: 2Cor 5:17, a remark I just posted in another thread.
When John 12:32 was originally written, do you think it said:
"will draw all to myself"?
"will draw all men to myself"?
John 12:32, interlinear
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/12-32.htm
And I if I am lifted up from the earth pantas/πάντας/all helkysō/ἑλκύσω/will-draw to Myself
John 12:32
http://dukhrana.com/peshi tta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+12:32&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) And I, when I have been lifted up from the earth, will draw all men [Aramaic: k-l a-n-sh: all + man, mankind]
unto me.
(Murdock) And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to me.
John 12:32 (NKJV), NKJV italics indicating a word supplied by the translator
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+12:31-33&version=NKJV
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all _peoples_ to Myself."
Should Rev 14:6 be rendered with:
"everlasting/eternal message/news"?
"age-during message/news"?
"universal message/news"?
Revelation 14:6 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/revelation/14-6.htm
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/14-6.htm
And I saw another messenger flying in mid-heaven, having good news age-during to proclaim to those dwelling upon the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,
166/ aiōnion/ αἰώνιον
Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_torrey_the-apocalypse-of-john/
14:6. The adjective aiṍnion [αἰώνιον], while almost inevitable as the rendering of Aramaic ᴄᴐlam, really mistranslates here, for the ᴄᴐlam to which it refers is not ho aiṍn but hē oikouménē. The Semitic noun with the latter meaning is common in late Hebrew, Aramaic, and Syriac. A frequently occurring Talmudic phrase is ʾummōt hᴐᴄōlᴐm, "the peoples of the world," meaning especially the Gentiles, and it is this usage, precisely, that is intended in the present passage. The euangélion aiṍnion proclaimed here is not an "eternal message," as it is ordinarily understood-- the idea of duration of time is not present at all; it is a "universal message," as the verse goes on to declare, sent to the peoples of the earth, all nations, tribes, and tongues. Aramaic bᵉsōr, regularly rendered by euangélion, means simply "tidings," whether good or bad.
Greg Glaser translations of Crawford Revelation 14:6
PDF: http://dukhrana.com/crawford/files/Revelation-Numerical-Data.pdf
linked to from
http://dukhrana.com/crawford/
gospel/hope Alternate translations: "good tidings", "truth", "reason".
that to a world/age
to be preaching (plural) Alternate translation: "to evangelize them"
Revelation 14:6
http://dukhrana.com/pesh itta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=Revelation+14:6&source=ubs&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
(Etheridge) And I saw another angel flying through heaven, who with blood [So SCHAFF, DE DlEU, and GUTBIR'S texts: but the Polyglots have not "with blood," a reading which admits of the same explanation as that given page 469.] had the
everlasting [Aramaic: d'l'ai-l-m: of/that to the world/age]
gospel [Aramaic: s-b-r-th-a: message/news]
to preach to them who dwell on the earth, and unto every nation and tribe, and tongue and people;
(Murdock) And I saw another angel flying in heaven: and with blood, he had the everlasting gospel, to proclaim to dwellers on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
(Lamsa) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel, to preach to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
(KJV) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
a Dutch translation at http://dukhrana.com
Revelation 14:6 - (Daarop) zag ik [een andere engel] in het midden van de hemel vliegen en hij had het eeuwige Goede Nieuws bij zich om (dat) te verkondigen aan hen die op aarde wonen, aan ieder volk, (iedere) stam, taal en natie,
een andere engel - in de meeste Griekse manuscripten (‹MHT›) ontbreekt 'andere' (‹ἄλλον - allon- G243›), maar in de Griekse NA28, TR en in de Aramese Peshi tta vinden wij dit woordje wel. Het probleem daarmee is dat er in het nabije tekstverband geen eerdere engel te vinden is, zodat de engel hier als 'andere engel' aangeduid kan worden naast een eerdere. De laatste engel die voor dit vers werd genoemd, is te vinden in Op. 11:15. Het is de engel die de zevende bazuin blies. Als men echter ziet dat Op. 12 en 13 een soort intermezzo vormen waarin aan Johannes een aantal uiterst belangrijke gezichten worden getoond, voordat de lijn van de gebeurtenissen vanaf het einde van Op. 11 weer wordt opgepakt, zal men met deze afstand tussen de engel van de 7e bazuin en deze andere engel minder moeite hebben. Sommigen menen dat het woordje 'andere' in sommige manuscripten werd weggelaten omdat men hier juist wel moeite mee had. Weer anderen suggereren dat het woordje 'andere' hier is toegevoegd uit een behoefte aan harmonisatie, immers alle 5 nog volgende engelen in deze passage (‹Op. 14:8, 9, 15, 17, 18) worden aangeduid als 'andere engelen'.
–We merken nog op dat het zestal engelen dat hier besproken wordt, wordt aangevuld met de Heer zelf in het midden van de zes (‹vs. 14, 16›), zodat er toch weer een voor Openbaring kenmerkend zevental ontstaat, deze keer op een wel heel bijzondere wijze.
het eeuwige Goede Nieuws - sommige vertalingen hebben 'een eeuwig Evangelie' ofwel 'een eeuwig Goed Nieuws', wat vanuit het Grieks gezien formeel juist is, maar de vraag is of de afwezigheid van het lidwoord in het Grieks altijd onbepaaldheid van het naamwoord impliceert. In ieder geval is de uitdrukking in de Aramese Peshi tta op te vatten als bepaald. Paulus' woorden in Gal. 1:6-9 mogen o.i. wel opgevat worden ter ondersteuning van de gedachte dat het hier om het eeuwige Evangelie gaat, en niet om 'een' Evangelie. Overigens wordt direct in de volgende verzen duidelijk wat die Evangelieverkondiging concreet inhoudt nl. God vrezen en de Schepper aanbidden en geen ander.
bij zich - deze tekst is onderdeel van de Aramese Peshi tta, maar niet van de Griekse NA28, MHT en TR.
Google translate:
Revelation 14: 6 - (Thereupon) I saw [another angel] flying in the midst of heaven and he had the eternal Good News with him to proclaim (that) to those who dwell on earth, to every people, (every) tribe, language and nation,
another angel - in most Greek manuscripts (‹MHT›)" other "(‹ ἄλλον - allon-G243 ›) is missing, but in the Greek NA28, TR and in the Aramaic Peshi tta we find this word. The problem with this is that there is no previous angel in the near text, so that the angel can be referred to here as "another angel" next to a previous one. The last angel mentioned for this verse is found in Op. 11:15. It is the angel who blew the seventh trumpet. However, if one sees that Op. 12 and 13 form a kind of intermezzo in which Johannes is shown a number of extremely important faces, before the line of events from the end of Op. 11 will be picked up again, this distance between the angel of the 7th trumpet and this other angel will be less difficult. Some believe that the word "other" was omitted in some manuscripts because it was difficult to do so. Still others suggest that the word 'other' has been added here out of a need for harmonization, for all 5 subsequent angels in this passage (‹Rev. 14: 8, 9, 15, 17, 18) are referred to as 'other angels' . –Note that the six angels discussed here are supplemented by the Lord Himself in the middle of the six (‹vs. 14, 16›), so that yet again a seven typical of Revelation arises, this time on a very special way.
Eternal Good News - some translations have "an Eternal Gospel" or "an Eternal Good News," which is formally correct from the Greek perspective, but the question is whether the absence of the article in Greek always implies indeterminacy of the noun. In any case, the expression in the Aramaic Peshi tta can be understood as determined. Paul's words in Gal. 1: 6-9 may be understood to support the idea that this is the eternal Gospel, and not "a" Gospel. Incidentally, it will immediately become clear in the following verses what this Gospel proclamation actually means, namely to fear God and worship the Creator and no other.
with him - this text is part of the Aramaic Peshi tta, but not of the Greek NA28, MHT and TR.
====================================.
Did Rev 15:2 originally read:
"harps of God"?
"harps of aloe"?
Revelation 15:2 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/revelation/15-2.htm
and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire,
and those who do gain the victory over the beast,
and his image,
and his mark,
and the number of his name,
standing by the sea of the glass,
having harps of God,
Charles C. Torrey, _The Apocalypse of John: Introduction, Excerpts, and a New Translation_ (1958)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/1958_torrey_the-apocalypse-of-john/
15:2 (last clause). : "Harps of God"-- a very strange expression, not justified by the context, nor by any parallel. The seer is shown a company standing by the glassy sea, prepared to sing the Song of Moses and the Lamb and "holding harps of God"-- where we should expect some word really descriptive of the instruments. The phrase may perhaps not be pronounced "impossible," but it certainly is to the last degree improbable. In any Hebrew or Aramaic text written at this time, care was taken to avoid the unnecessary use of names or designations of God; in this case the use of the word was not only unnecessary but also unnatural.
This phrase as it stands seems to designate a class, or collection, of harps. Charles, 2, 343, refers to 1 Chron. 16:42, kᵉlē šīr hɔʾɛlohīm and 2 Chron. 7:6 kᵉlē šīr YHWH; but (1) the introduction of the word šīr makes the case quite different; and (2) it is worth noticing that Targ. Chron. does not permit even this form of words, but in both passages inserts qɔdɔm ("in the presence of") before the word designating God.
It can hardly be doubted that the present text is wrong. The Greek gives no foothold for emendation, but as soon as the Aramaic it renders is restored, the cause of the trouble is made clear. What the author of the Apocalypse wrote was not kinnɔrīn dī ʾɛlɔhɔʾ, "harps of God," but kinnɔrīn dī ʾᵃlɔhɔʾ, "harps of aloes wood." This precious wood, famed for its fragrance (Psa. 45:9[8 English]; Prov. 7:17; Song of Songs 4:14), is precisely the material that would be expected in this place. The word was either carelessly miswritten or else too hastily translated. Another characteristic misreading.
Song of Solomon 4:14 (YLT)
https://biblehub.com/songs/4-14.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/songs/4-14.htm
Cypresses with nard -- nard and saffron, Cane and cinnamon, With all trees of frankincense, Myrrh and aloes, with all chief spices.
174/ wa·'ă·hā·lō·wṯ/וַאֲהָל֔וֹת / and aloes
Do you think 2 Maccabees 12:38-46 belongs in the Bible? It's in the LXX and the Peshi tta Tanakh.
2 Maccabees 12:38-46 (NABRE)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Maccabees+12%3A38-46&version=NABRE
38 Judas rallied his army and went to the city of Adullam. As the seventh day was approaching, they purified themselves according to custom and kept the sabbath there. 39 On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his companions went to gather up the bodies of the fallen and bury them with their kindred in their ancestral tombs. 40 But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had fallen. 41 They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden. 42 [a]Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. 43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection in mind; 44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. 45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. 46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be absolved from their sin.
a: 12:42-45 This is the earliest statement of the doctrine that prayers (v. 42) and sacrifices (v. 43) for the dead are efficacious. Judas probably intended his purification offering to ward off punishment from the living. The author, however, uses the story to demonstrate belief in the resurrection of the just (7:9, 14, 23, 36), and in the possibility of expiation for the sins of otherwise good people who have died. ....
Maccabees in the New Testament
http://matthewbryan.net/maccabees.html
My last article presented several of Jesus' teachings from the Wisdom of Sirach and noted the fact that Matthew's gospel paid particular attention to those teachings. While Wisdom of Sirach had only a limited impact on the New Testament, the history of the Maccabees affected first century Judaism so strongly that our Protestant avoidance of 1st and 2nd Maccabees has enabled serious errors in some of our most central doctrines. Like Sirach, 1st and 2nd Maccabees have been mislabeled as "apocrypha," a title originally reserved for heretical Gnostic writings;1 but no apocryphal teachings arise in 1st or 2nd Maccabees. Even if one does not accept these books as Scripture, Martin Luther called them "profitable and good to read."2 My hope is that this article will encourage many Christians to read these chronicles of resistance and victory, which strongly shaped Jewish culture at the time of our Lord's incarnation and the Writings which followed from His apostles.
....
The "glory" which Mattathias promised his sons was God's "salvation" from their enemies, which is the primary theme of salvation in the New Testament, not salvation from hell or from God's wrath, as is commonly thought in Protestantism. Jesus spoke about hell (directly or indirectly) in just 60 verses, 3% of our red-letter verses. Yet in the four Gospels alone, demons (including Satan) are specifically mentioned or quoted as speaking in 120 verses. This number does not include indirect references nor vague titles like "the enemy" or even the "evil one," as in the Sower parables. On page after page, Jesus directly battles unclean spirits. When He frees people from demons, He speaks of Satan's kingdom and proclaims His own kingdom of heaven or "kingdom of God." He refers to Satan's kingdom as "this world" and "the world," setting Himself in opposition to it. Throughout the Gospels we hear of the battle between Light and darkness, as though the Maccabean battles had raged on without an end.
....
We may recognize the implications of wrath and hell in the Great Commission or in Paul's commission, but the explicit and predominant theme throughout the New Testament is that of a war between two kingdoms and the escape of prisoners who "turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God." We do not read 1st and 2nd Maccabees, therefore we overlook that theme and then offer the subtexts (wrath and hell) as the New Testament's primary theme. The Maccabees fought flesh and blood; our King and His apostles fought equally real enemies for the salvation of prisoners: "He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love." (Col 1:13 NKJV)
"Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle with flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." (Eph 6:11-12 NKJV)
....
Maccabean salvation from enemies happened by God's grace through faith after works of the law by circumcised, zealous, Separatists. The Maccabean history markedly colors the New Testament, and our Protestant theology suffers from its omission from our reading. Without reading the Maccabean history, we misunderstand the faith of the Pharisees, the contextual meaning of "salvation" in the New Testament, faith basis of "zeal for the law" and of "works," and the role of Hellenization within New Testament events. Overlooking 1st and 2nd Maccabees cause gross misinterpretations of Jesus and His apostles.
How should John 3:16 be rendered?
v. 2.5, John "3:36 One who believes in the Son has the life of the world to come,
but one who disobeys the Son does not perceive life,
but the overflowing indignation of God remains upon him."
Michael Wood, _The Hidden Bible_ (2010), 155pp., 42-43
https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Bible-Michael-Wood/dp/1936565005/
A more true-to-the-Greek translation of John 3:16 is:
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son that
whoever trusts him enough to do what he says will not perish....
Unfortunately, the full meaning of the Koine Greek word is hidden from modern readers .... 'to believe in the Son' means to do what he says-- 'to love one another' just like he told us to....
////////////////////////
There's Joshua the son of Nun. But he wasn't called the Meshika/ Mashiach. There's only one Yeshua the Meshikha.
Jesus was named 'Yeshua' by his parents.
The word 'Iesous' is a Greek representation for 'Yeshua.'
The word 'Christos' is a Greek representation for the original Aramaic's 'Meshikah.'
The word 'Jesus' is an English representation for the Greek 'Iesous.'
The word 'Christ' is an English representation for the Greek 'Christos.'
What do you think of this rendering?:
"These shall go into the pain of the _Olam_ (the world to come),
and these to the life of the _Olam_ (the world to come)."
How would you respond to this analysis?:
_History of Opinions on the Scriptural Doctrine of Retribution_ by Edward Beecher Appleton (1878), 334pp., 152-157
https://books.google.com/books?id=Kx9LZX1iP6wC
https://www.amazon.com/History-Opinions-Scriptural-Doctrine-Retribution-ebook/dp/B00LZX29G4/
CHAPTER XVIII. THE PESH ITO.
Having particularly considered the testimony of Aristotle, and of classic Greek, and of the Septuagint, I shall proceed to other evidence of the meaning of the word _aionios_, as used by Christ in the judgment. This is found in the Pesh ito, a Syriac version of the Greek Testament, the earliest version after Christ. [Nope. The Syriac was the original, and got translated into Greek. - df]
PROF. TAYLER LEWIS.
We are indebted, for what we shall say on this version, to that eminent scholar Prof. Tayler Lewis. To see the full force of it, it is necessary to state first his own views of the word _aionios_. They are found in a profound development of the use of what he calls the _Olamic_ or _Aeonian_ words of the Scripture. He complains, and that justly, that their Scriptural use is hidden by our translation. His views will be found on pp. 44-51 of Lange's "Commentary on Ecclesiastes," and also pp. 135-143 of the "Commentary on Genesis."
VIEWS OF PROF. LEWIS.
He very correctly assumes that _aion_ has the sense of an age, that is, a period of time. He regards the boundless duration of God as filled with successive ages or dispensations. These ages were numberless before our world was created; during this world there are ages, and there will be numberless ages after its close.
SCRIPTURAL NAMES.
The usual Scriptural names of these ages are Olam in Hebrew, and Aion in Greek. These words are, in themselves, wholly indefinite, and the ages may vary greatly in length. They are not measured by ordinary astronomical computations of time, as days, months, years. (See Lange's "Genesis," p. 141, note.)
USE OF THE AGES.
Now, in this state of things, two modes are conceivable of impressing the mind with the magnitude of the duration of God and his kingdom: to use simple negations of beginning or end, leaving eternity, past and future, an undivided blank, or, to fill the mind with the conception of innumerable ages, past or future, and to reduplicate the expression "by ages of ages."
He insists upon it that this latter mode of speaking is the Scriptural mode, and that it affects the mind more with approximate conceptions of eternity than what he calls conceptionless, negative words.
NEITHER DENOTES ETERNITY.
But he insists that this use of _olam_ and _aion_, in the plural to denote ages, and ages of ages, implies of necessity that neither of the words, of itself, denotes eternity. He admits that these words are used to give an idea of eternity, as applied to God and his kingdom, while yet the ages that are reduplicated are themselves finite, but by their magnitude and number raise an impressive approximate conception of eternity. (See Lange's "Ecclesiastes," pp. 45, 50.)
RESULT.
In view of these facts we need not be surprised at finding in Prof. Tayler Lewis the following clear development of the logical result of these views. He says: "The preacher, in contending with the Universalist and the Restorationist, would commit an error, and it may be suffer a failure in his argument, should he lay the whole stress of it on the etymological or historical significance of the words aion, aionios, and attempt to prove that of themselves they necessarily carry the meaning of endless duration" (Lange's "Ecclesiastes," p. 48). What, then, does _aionios_ here mean? He says that it means _pertaining to the age or world to come_, taking _world_ in the time-sense, and thus translates the passage. "These shall go away into the punishment [the restraint, imprisonment] of the world to come, and these into the life of the world to come," and he adds, emphatically, _"that is all that we can etymologically or exegetically make of the word in this passage."_
THE PESH ITO.
It is in support of this translation that he appeals to the venerable Syriac version, the Pesh ito.
The Pesh ito is, as we have said, the earliest version of the New Testament. Its value and authority it is not easy to over-estimate. Westcott says: "Gregory Bar Hebraeus, one of the most learned and accurate of Syrian writers, relates that the New Testament Pesh ito was "made in the time of Thaddeus (the apostle), and Abgarus, King of Edessa, when, according to the universal opinion of ancient writers, the apostle went to proclaim Christianity in Mesopotamia" (Canon, p. 259). He adds that Gregory assumes the apostolic origin of the New Testament Pesh ito as certain, and that it preceded all the sects of the Syrian Church, and was received and appealed to by all. How, then, was _aionios_ translated by this version? In support of his own translation Prof. Tayler Lewis says, "So is it ever (translated) in the old Syriac version, where the one rendering is still more unmistakably clear." "These shall go into the pain of the _Olam_ (the world to come), and these to the life of the _Olam_ (the world to come)." He refers to many other passages, as Matt. xix. 16; Mark x. 17; Luke xviii. 18; John iii. 15; Acts xiii. 46; 1 Tim. vi. 12, in which _aionios_ is rendered _belonging to the Olam_, the world to come. In all these cases we find in our version, _eternal life_, the same words that are used in the sentence of the judge, but in all they are rendered in the Pesh ito, the life of the world to come; and such, he tells us, is the rendering in all similar cases. Certainly, evidence more direct and conclusive it is hard to imagine.
AIM OF PROF. LEWIS.
We are not to suppose that so eminent an orthodox divine says these things in support of Universalism, a system which he decidedly and earnestly rejects. He says them in behalf of what he conceives to be the truth in philology, and rests for proof of eternal punishment on the finality of the whole aspect of the scene, and the absence of any reason to look for a reversal of the sentence. But he is unwilling to support what he regards as a true doctrine with false arguments. Besides the idea of finality in the judgment, he would doubtless derive arguments from other sources.
CHANGE OF POSITION.
Nevertheless, if we admit the validity of the evidence adduced by him, and certainly nothing can have higher claims to confidence than this ancient apostolic version, and the argument that sustains him seems to be irrefragable, yet it effects a fundamental change in the position of the whole question, for it is now fair to raise the question, What is the life, and what is the punishment, of the world to come? Is that punishment ultimate annihilation after deserved suffering? Still it would be the punishment of the world to come. Will it be a long-continued but remedial punishment? Still it will be the punishment of the world to come. This translation leaves the question between the three theories undecided. Eternal torment is now only one supposition out of three, and we are not by the sentence of Christ shut up to the belief of it. It may be proved from other sources. But these words of Christ are no longer the main bulwark in defense of that doctrine. So, also, the argument that the punishment is characterized by the same word as the life, loses its power to prove eternal punishment. The allegation is true. But what does it prove? Solely that, as the life is of the world to come, so is the punishment.
FIDELITY TO TRUTH.
The fact that these results conflict with the generally accepted statements of the defenders of eternal punishment should not, however, tend to produce a reaction against that eminent orthodox scholar and divine by whom they are sustained, nor against the learned, scholarly, and Christian work in which they are published.
We trust that the time will come when, in all departments of history and philology, men will write, not for denomination or party, but for the truth; when the inquiry will not be, what will this or that sect say of this, but what will God say of it, to whom all suppression of the truth and all pious fraud are an abomination.
PROPER COURSE.
The proper course to pursue with reference to the statements of Prof. Lewis is to compare them with other usages of language in the early Christian ages, and see if his results accord with general usage to such an extent as to give them an aspect of general verisimilitude. For there is something striking and peculiar in such an idea as "the life of the world to come." If this was a common mode of thought, we should be likely to meet it elsewhere. Is Prof. Tayler Lewis's view sustained by any other ancient and authoritative usage? There are many ancient creeds. Do we find any traces of it in them? Are there any facts in the writings of the ancient fathers which imply that they understood Christ to be speaking of the life and the punishment _of the world to come_, in the sentence of the judgment-day? To these questions we propose to give careful attention, for they reach the heart of the whole momentous inquiry.
CHAPTER XIX.
The Aramaic for 3:11 has a better structure:
Colossians 3 (Peshi tta Holy Bible)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/colossians/3.htm
10 And put on the new, who is made new by knowledge in the image of his Creator,
11 Where there is neither Jew nor Aramaean,
neither circumcision nor uncircumcision,
neither Greeks nor Barbarians,
neither Servant nor Freeman,
but The Messiah is all and in every person.
Jesus is in everybody. 'Whatever you did to the least of these, you did to Me.'
"Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you"
I suspect that the original Aramaic there is better rendered as, "Ye are my friends. It is necessary ye do whatsoever I command you."
If somebody told you that you are their friend as long as you meet certain conditions, would you consider that individual an actual friend?
"you are taking a God to man friendship and comparing it to a man to man; this is your fallacy"
Jesus is a man. Besides being God.
How is friendship different between "a God to man friendship" and "a man to man" friendship?
1 John 4:12 (NIV)
No one has ever seen God;
but if we love one another,
God lives in us
and his love is made complete in us.
1 John 4 (Peshi tta Holy Bible)
https://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/1_john/4.htm
19 Therefore we shall love God
because he first loved us.
20 But if a man will say, "I love God",
and he hates his brother,
he is lying;
for he who does not love his brother who is visible,
how is it possible for him to love God who is invisible?
21 And we have received this commandment from him:
"Everyone who loves God
shall love his brother also."
For John 3:16, 'give (it) to his son' is reflected in the Aramaic.
http://dukhrana.com/peshi tta/analyze_verse.php?lang=en&verse=John+3:16&source=khabouris&font=Estrangelo+Edessa&size=125%25
A Course in Miracles -- Chapter 2 -- VII. Cause and Effect
https://acourseinmiraclesnow.com/course-miracles-chapter-2-vii-cause-effect/
T-2.VII.5. Nothing and everything cannot coexist. 2 To believe in one is to deny the other. 3 Fear is really nothing and love is everything. 4 Whenever light enters darkness, the darkness is abolished. 5 What you believe is true for you.
6 In this sense the separation has occurred, and to deny it is merely to use denial inappropriately. 7 However, to concentrate on error is only a further error. 8 The initial corrective procedure is to recognize temporarily that there is a problem, but only as an indication that immediate correction is needed. 9 This establishes a state of mind in which the Atonement can be accepted without delay. 10 It should be emphasized, however, that ultimately no compromise is possible between everything and nothing.
11 Time is essentially a device by which all compromise in this respect can be given up. 12 It only seems to be abolished by degrees, because time itself involves intervals that do not exist. 13 Miscreation made this necessary as a corrective device. 14 The statement "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life" needs only one slight correction to be meaningful in this context; "He gave it _to_ His only begotten Son."
In a season 2 episode of "The Chosen," the phrase "Come and see" is used several times. That's a semiticism that means 'If you come, you will see.' Details are in
http://pecrapta.org,
Forum,
Aramaic Primacy Forum,
currently-last post in thread: _The Pecrapta Holy Bible_ translated by David Bauscher