the verse which 'says' Jesus preached to those in 'hell'

[marie glen]

1 Peter 3:18-20

King James Version (KJV)

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Has this been mentioned? Most interpret this to mean Jesus went to 'hell' and preached to those who were in 'hell' namely the ones who perished in the deluge of Noah's day. So (according to their doctrine) why bother? And also, why only those ones?

I believe these verses mean Christ, by the Spirit, preached to those who were disbelieving in the days when Noah was building the ark. Doesn't it make more sense the Spirit of God would be trying to persuade them to believe before the deluge, and not after they had perished in the flood? Or do we suppose God hadn't a care? :smile:

[ded2daworld]

Not only that Marie but IMO, Jesus preaching to those that were to spend eternity burning in the flames of torment is an additional cruely from God, sorta like God saying "na-na na-nah you're going to burn for-ever - that's what you get for not loving me."
What they call insult to injury since the ten commandments hadn't even been given at that point.
To me, just more proof that "death cannot seperate us from the love of God and contrary to ET doctrine, your eternal fate is NOT decided at one's death.

[marie glen]

I hadn't even realized that! "Judged" guilty of breaking the law before the law was given.. and "na na nana na"! Absolutely! :LH: How much sense does thAt make!?

[Lazarus Short]

Marie, I think you hit the nail on the head!  As I began to read your post, I began to think that the past tense did NOT indicate that Jesus preached to the dead in Hell while He was in the tomb.  No, it did not exclude Him preaching way back then, when the ark was being built.  Then, I read you saying the same thing I was thinking!  There goes another prop of the Hell doctrine.  :gimmefive:

[VineBranch]

I believe these verses mean Christ, by the Spirit, preached to those who were disbelieving in the days when Noah was building the ark.

I believe these verses mean Christ, by the Spirit, preached to those who were disbelieving in the days when Noah was building the ark.

I get the sense marie.  I think I may have a problem with the results though.  Given Christ's success rate when he preached in Jerusalem and its environs, I would be more convinced if there were a lot more people in the Ark ie those who heard Christ, and repented and went with Noah and family.

By this theory, Christ's success rate at reaching the people in those days was zip/nada when we read what happened next.

Just my 2.5 cents (inflation)

[Lazarus Short]

VB, eight souls were saved through the flood, so it was not nada.  In His NT visitation, more were saved.  In the Second Coming, as we call it, many more will be saved.  At the close of the historical ages, as I understand it, ALL will be saved.  A progressive work.

Just my two c-notes (hyperinflation).  :laughing7:

[VineBranch]

VB, eight souls were saved through the flood, so it was not nada. 

Got it, but those guys were there because of Noah, whom God already called rigtheous.  If Chirist actually went back in history and preached to the masses, I would anticipate more then the ones which were going in the first place.  I would expect to see people repenting and coming along with Noah.  Again ... just my opinion.

[Lazarus Short]

Well, if the wife, sons, and son's wives went on board, and ONLY Noah was righteous, it was still not nada.  As one Christian said long ago, God hangs the heaviest weights on the thinnest wires, an expression which derives from old clock technology.

Ever wonder how they felt, hearing people shouting, screaming, and pounding on the door of the ark, after it started raining?

[ded2daworld]

Not much they could do after God sealed the outside personally with his own hand. Besides what would they say? "For 100 years, "I told you so" 2.5 cents - inflation :LH:

[Molly]

Don't forget the companion verses.  He not only preached to them, he led the captives to heaven in victory.





8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

--Eph 4



18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them.

--Psa 68

[micah7:9]

Questionable.

[Molly]

Most interpret this to mean Jesus went to 'hell' and preached to those who were in 'hell' namely the ones who perished in the deluge of Noah's day. So (according to their doctrine) why bother? And also, why only those ones?

He mentions this in the context of talking about water baptism.  His point is: water doesn't save, Christ saves.



Now, who will want to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14 But even if you suffer for doing what is right, God will reward you for it. So don't worry or be afraid of their threats. 15 Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. 16 But do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ. 17 Remember, it is better to suffer for doing good, if that is what God wants, than to suffer for doing wrong!
18 Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.

19 So he went and preached to the spirits in prison— 20 those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. 21 And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

22 Now Christ has gone to heaven. He is seated in the place of honor next to God, and all the angels and authorities and powers accept his authority.

--1 Pet 3




8 That is why Scripture says,

"When he went up to his place on high,
he led a line of prisoners.
He gave gifts to people."

--Eph 4

[Molly]

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

--Eph 4


"lower" [parts of the earth]

G2737
κατώτερος
katōteros
kat-o'-ter-os
Compound from G2736; inferior (locally, of Hades): - lower.

[ded2daworld]

IMO we need to read carefully. Does the verse say Christ led men up to heaven? or does it say Christ led captivity captive? and doesn't Paul say that NO ONE has ascended to heaven except Christ? (he who came down from heaven)
Similar to when Christ throws "hell and death into the lake of fire" death is personified as IMO captivity is. In both cases we may be remiss as to include people in these personifications just as ET people make that mistake saying that "People are in hell, hell is cast into the lake of fire, therefore people are cast into the lake of fire which now becomes hell - somehow" :Chinscratch: :Peace2:

[Molly]

I think it's more a matter of how you read it and what you believe.  He is the conquering warrior, returning home with the spoil, leading a host of captives from the enemy.

He leads in this parade those who are prisoners of war [captivity] that he has now captured for himself and brought home with him.  This is a military reference to a conquering King returning home in victory.

He led captivity captive




KJV Commentary writes that...

This is a quotation from Psalm 68:18, a messianic psalm of victory in which God is praised for deliverance. He led captivity captive. The inferences drawn from the triumphal return of the King are: (1) the thought of victory; and (2) the bestowal of gifts. The captives are most probably the Old Testament saints in sheol (hades). (Dobson, E G, Charles Feinberg, E Hindson, Woodrow Kroll, H L. Wilmington: KJV Bible Commentary: Nelson)

John MacArthur explains that...

In His crucifixion and resurrection, Jesus Christ conquered Satan, sin, and death (cf. Col 2:!5-note), and by that great victory He led captive a host of captives, who once were prisoners of the enemy but now are returned to the God and the people with whom they belong. (MacArthur, J: Ephesians. Chicago: Moody Press)



"captivity"

G164

αἰχμαλωτός

aichmalōtos

aheekh-mal-o-tos'

From αἰχμή aichmē (a spear ) and a derivative of the same as G259 ; properly a prisoner of {war} that {is} (generally) a captive: - captive.

[sheila]

...what about Paul saying.."I once knew a man caught up to the third heaven"..if all mankind

will be raised up in Christ..then all mankind will ascend to Heaven....

   I am from Above............I will draw all men unto me.......

   if the children of the resurrection are like the angels.....the children of God....angels

ascend[thou shalt behold the angels descending and ascending on the son of man}

    just saying.....there are great and wonderful things prepared that have never entered

  the heart of man.....

[redhotmagma]

...what about Paul saying.."I once knew a man caught up to the third heaven"..if all mankind

will be raised up in Christ..then all mankind will ascend to Heaven....

   I am from Above............I will draw all men unto me.......

   if the children of the resurrection are like the angels.....the children of God....angels

ascend[thou shalt behold the angels descending and ascending on the son of man}

    just saying.....there are great and wonderful things prepared that have never entered

  the heart of man.....

I was thinking the same thing Sheila, the ladder being his DNA that we ascend and descend on

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:     divine nature activated...born from above[in Christ/spirit]  as all have

  bore the image of the corrupt..so,too,shall all bear the image of the incorruptible one.

[sheila]

...the divine nature activated is the 'quickening spirit' that resurrects those dead in tresspass and sin

   the CHRIST is the resurrection.        it is the quickening spirit.....of the last Adam.

   

[rosered]

    Awesome Shelia !  :iagree:

Gen 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Jhn 1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.


  If we can see  also where Paul says we are makking you chaste virgins for Christ  , that same holy seed     that the Holy Spirit   hovered over Mary   being the  the ''holy thing'' formed in her   
and Jesus being the firstfruits  of those who slept , making alive to  the Father , than we  can  grasp the signifigance to how its done , your    virgin /pure  mind can recive the holy seed and the Christ in you is also formed by the Power of God   moving within your being  bringing new life in Christ      , its just amazing to consider  it ! 

[lomarah]

Well the Spirit in me sure is leaping for joy!!!  :banana:

[anna274]

Well the Spirit in me sure is leaping for joy!!!  :banana:

:thumbsup:     divine nature activated...born from above[in Christ/spirit]  as all have

  bore the image of the corrupt..so,too,shall all bear the image of the incorruptible one.

Oh yes Lomarah, my heart, my mind, my spirit join you in leaping for joy.

Sheila, thanks for a such a perfect, profound, positive definition of DNA
DNA=divine nature activated

You two sisters have shared with us many edifying, faithbuilding words.  Many blessings.

[lomarah]

As you have too anna! Blessings right back at ya!  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the Lord is in this place; and I knew it not.

17 And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful is this place! this is none other but the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.

--Gen 28





17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

--1 Pet 3





Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.  Eph 5:14

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:

  Love them verses Molly !!1 Peter 3   helped me  realize just how much   suffering is done  because  of  sin    fruit   of death       
  and the suffering      for proclaiming   and being hid   in Jesus  Christ    bringing many  back  and birthing new Life