The Gospel of Christ Should Not Be Viewed As A "Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free Pass"

[Beloved Servant]

Amen Nathan.

His rest is in His Sabbath Temple of Living Stones.

The urgency is for Romans 8:22.

The Kings and Priests.

[thinktank]

:cloud9: Yep....the Lord gave my mother a dream a couple of years before she passed away. In it, the Lord showed her the door to the Ark, and said something like, "There's only room for 174 more", and she said she felt His urgency.

I'm not sure of her viewpoints, but there are some out there such as jehovahs witnesses who think that there are only 144,000 who are going to be saved from the great tribulation, if she has this line of thought then maybe her dreams align with that, and so make a limit to the number who are saved. But to me there is unlimited storage in heaven for those who are ready. :2c:

[Nathan]

Yeah, that passage doesn't make sense to me when trying to apply it literally.  It's like saying that in the US, every state must come up with . . .let's use their number . . .12,000 people. Reguardless of the size of the state, or the population of the state, every state must volunteer 12,000 people.  That might be a drop in the bucket to New York, but I think the state of Montana or Deleware may be affected much more in that they don't have a fraction of the population New York does.  Not to mention the fact that, the spiritual principles established early on don't reflect this kind of pattern at all. 

The children of Israel were to gather enough manna "according to the number of each household".  So this 144,000 from every tribe already doesn't make sense.  Spiritually speaking, all who call on the name of the Lord are Jews and we've all been spiritually circumcized as evidence that we're Jews.  12 being the number of government and I beleive 1000 corelates with the counting of an army . . .even better, a DAY is as a thousand so what we could really be seeing here is a spiritual picture of God's government being made manifest in the hearts of men.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I can't remember the exact number, but about 2 years later someone told me about this guy who had been given a lot about the times and the seasons (numbers and dates) and I checked it out, and that number WAS in there, it was very significant pertaining to times concerning the judgments in the patterns of His dealing with Israel. For her, the urgency was to get her heart right, though we didn't know it at the time, as she did not have much longer to do it on this earth. Blessings....

[coldwar]

Yeah, that passage doesn't make sense to me when trying to apply it literally.  It's like saying that in the US, every state must come up with . . .let's use their number . . .12,000 people. Reguardless of the size of the state, or the population of the state, every state must volunteer 12,000 people.  That might be a drop in the bucket to New York, but I think the state of Montana or Deleware may be affected much more in that they don't have a fraction of the population New York does.  Not to mention the fact that, the spiritual principles established early on don't reflect this kind of pattern at all. 

The children of Israel were to gather enough manna "according to the number of each household".  So this 144,000 from every tribe already doesn't make sense.  Spiritually speaking, all who call on the name of the Lord are Jews and we've all been spiritually circumcized as evidence that we're Jews.  12 being the number of government and I beleive 1000 corelates with the counting of an army . . .even better, a DAY is as a thousand so what we could really be seeing here is a spiritual picture of God's government being made manifest in the hearts of men.

I don't think Revelation implies that these 144,000 are the only ones saved anyway. In fact, immediately after the 12000 from each tribe are numbered, it reads "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

It would appear that the 144,000 (whether spiritual or literal doesn't really matter, so I'll assume literal, as I usually do :happy3:)- they will have an influence on all the people of the world to bring them all home to the Lamb.

Dave

[micah7:9]

I lost the tread topic here  Re: The Gospel of Christ Should Not Be Viewed As A "Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free Pass"
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2010, 03:41:52 PM »

[Nathan]

Yeah, that passage doesn't make sense to me when trying to apply it literally.  It's like saying that in the US, every state must come up with . . .let's use their number . . .12,000 people. Reguardless of the size of the state, or the population of the state, every state must volunteer 12,000 people.  That might be a drop in the bucket to New York, but I think the state of Montana or Deleware may be affected much more in that they don't have a fraction of the population New York does.  Not to mention the fact that, the spiritual principles established early on don't reflect this kind of pattern at all. 

The children of Israel were to gather enough manna "according to the number of each household".  So this 144,000 from every tribe already doesn't make sense.  Spiritually speaking, all who call on the name of the Lord are Jews and we've all been spiritually circumcized as evidence that we're Jews.  12 being the number of government and I beleive 1000 corelates with the counting of an army . . .even better, a DAY is as a thousand so what we could really be seeing here is a spiritual picture of God's government being made manifest in the hearts of men.

I don't think Revelation implies that these 144,000 are the only ones saved anyway. In fact, immediately after the 12000 from each tribe are numbered, it reads "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

It would appear that the 144,000 (whether spiritual or literal doesn't really matter, so I'll assume literal, as I usually do :happy3:)- they will have an influence on all the people of the world to bring them all home to the Lamb.

Dave

I agree with your perception with that following verse.  I also see where you're coming from as to whether or not it's relevant, yet at the same time, if it were not relevant, it would not have been written.  The question is, which perspective benefits us the most?  Natural?  Or spiritual?

The traditional thinking is not that only 144,000 go to heaven, but instead, there are going to be 144,000 Jewish evangelists given a great anointing to preach to the entire world the gospel and they're going to be so convincing, all the world, during the great tribulation of course and just about all the population is dead by then, but those that aren't are going to be transformed by these guys.

But the same people also beleive that when the Rapture takes place, the Holy Spirit is going to leave with the bride, leaving behind only satan and his demons . . .my question has always been to that . . .if the world is in the state it's in "with" the Holy Spirit here, what makes them think these 144,000 guys are going to have a greater affect "without" the HS here?  When interpreting with limited minds, it'll never be clear to anyone because limited minds can only see real truth, through revelation, not through reasoning.

As to the original question that started the thread . . .universal reconciliation of any kind is not a free pass.  It never has been.  But it's not about hell at all.  The church has inflated it into being much about hell and eternal damnation.  But the true purpose of Jesus coming here was prophecied in Isaiah and Jesus himself proclaimed that it had been fulfilled . . .by him.

Luke 4
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,  19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Preach the gospel to the poor (In spirit might I add, not just financially broke people)  Deliverance to the captives (religious minds) recovering sight to the blind (veil of the minds of men) and to set at liberty them that are bruised.  No mention of hell, no mention of eternal torment.

Is Jesus really nothing more than just a salesman giving his pitch to anyone who would listen?  Knowing that in the fine print should they reject his message, eternal hell was immediately following?  Or could it be that this hell thing has been totally over-inflated all along?  And if hell has been, would that not also mean that the image of the devil and the image of satan would follow suit? 

It's that final shaking Hebrews talks about.  Once light enters the room, everything that darkness supported comes crashing down.  Darkness doesn't necessarily have to mean evil, it can also mean uneducated.  Shedding a little light on something is bringing something to someone's awareness is it not?  Before they lived in darkness of what freedom is.  The light is not salvation from hell.  It's simply illuminating truth of the Nature of the Son.

[peacemaker]

A get "out of jail" free card are only words used within that of a "Monopoly" which has become very popular, holding mankind in
their undesired Hell-hole, other than the grave. The "Boardwalk" that's between a luxury tax and imprisonment for failure to pay.