ELIJAH IS HERE

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Hello everyone, I just saw a video that was posted September 25,2012 where a voice saying "I am here" was heard in a fire tornado. Many believe this voice is Enoch or Elijah. I was wondering what your thoughts are on the matter. The link to the video is posted below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGDtkOSVsPA&list=UUOhBvziDcf7rl_SSROj1osw

God Bless

[Lazarus Short]

I watched the video and just heard some guy's commentary.  Maybe I'll watch again, but I'm skeptical.

EDIT:  OK, my wife and I both heard it at about 30 seconds in.  What could it mean?  Could it be the prince of the power of the air?

[rosered]

  I sure do not know   sis / Searching   what it means ?
  but I do  think fire tornadoes are strange looking !!  I have never seen one  like that before .

Thanks for sharing it  :flowerred:

[Tom]

Unsearchable Riches V19P2 pg.320

"ASCENDING INTO HEAVEN


THERE is an apparent contradiction, in our versions, between the statement of our Lord that "no one has ascended into heaven except He Who descended out of heaven" (John 3:13) and the story of Elijah, who "went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (2 Kings 2:11). Our Lord's statement is explicit and correctly rendered, hence must stand. Heaven, in this case, must be defined according to the preceding context, the celestial regions which are in contrast to the earth.

     Heaven is used in a twofold sense in Scripture. It is applied to the vast regions of interstellar space and it is used of the atmosphere immediately surrounding the earth. Birds fly in the heavens. Tempests do not rage beyond the air. Elijah ascended in a tempest (rather than a whirlwind). This could not take him to celestial regions. Indeed, his destination is not revealed. The word into is supplied without warrant in our version. There is no preposition in the Hebrew. It was not into heaven, but heavenward. The LXX makes it "as into the heaven." Our Lord's statement assures us it was not into the celestial regions. Many explanations could be suggested, as to how this could be done, but it has not pleased God to reveal the method or the succeeding experience of the prophet. One thing is clear. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that he was translated to a celestial sphere."

[Tom]

Unsearchable Riches V87P2 pgs.211-213

"ENOCH AND ELIJAH

MANY claim that neither Enoch nor Elijah ever died, and that they remain alive today. It is said that both were "taken to heaven," and that they remain there even at present, living in the very presence of God Himself. Various Jewish and Christian legends, some of them quite ancient, have been handed down in support of these traditions. The scriptural record itself, however, does not substantiate such beliefs.

     Very little is known concerning Enoch. He was the son of Jared and the father of Methuselah (Gen.5:18,21; not to be confused with Enoch, son of Cain, mentioned in Genesis 4:17). He was a member of the line of descent through Seth by which the knowledge of God was preserved. The expression "walked with God" is used only of Enoch (Gen.5:24) and Noah (Gen.6:9) in the early chapters of Genesis.

     Elijah was the ninth-century B.C. prophet of Israel, the northern kingdom of the divided monarchy during the reigns of Ahab, Ahaziah, and Jehoram. The episodes recorded in Scripture in the life of Elijah, are basically concerned with the clash between the worship of Yahweh and Baal. Ahab fostered a Phonecian variant of Baal worship (which was the nature-religion of Canaan) after his marriage with the Tyrian princess Jezebel; but it was Jezebel who was chiefly responsible for the systematic extermination of the worship of Yahweh and of the propagation of the idolatrous worship of Baal in Israel (1 Kings 18:4,13,19; 19:10,14).

     Since the word "heaven" is used in reference to Elijah's removal, it is important that we note which usage of this word is in view in 2 Kings 2:1, concerning Elijah. But since in the case of Enoch, nothing at all is said of "heaven," it is foolhardy to claim that since God somehow transferred him somewhere, for a period of unspecified duration, He therefore doubtlessly transferred him into the celestial realms themselves, so that he might remain in the divine presence even unto today.

     In approaching this theme, may we, first of all, intensely believe the words of the Lord Jesus in which He declares: "And no one has ascended into heaven except He Who descends out of heaven" (John 3:13). Our Lord's statement is explicit and correctly rendered; hence it must stand. Heaven, in this case, must be defined according to the preceding context (John 3:12), the celestial regions which are in contrast to the earth.

     In the Scriptures, "heaven" is sometimes applied to the vast regions of interstellar space; and, it is used as well in reference to the atmosphere immediately surrounding the earth.

     Concerning Enoch, we will do well to believe that "all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty-five years" (Gen.5:23), while noting as well that Enoch is included among the "all these" who died in faith, as recorded in Hebrews 11 (cp vs.5 and 13).

     Earlier, God had "taken" Enoch (Gen.5:23), and "transferred" him, so that he would not "be being acquainted with death" (Heb.11:5; note the incomplete verb form, as indicated by the superior vertical line in the CV). Yet eventually he died; for all of his days were 365 years.

     We are not told where Enoch was taken, or transferred to. But we are informed that God's purpose in transferring him was in consideration of his having pleased Him well, and so that he might not be being acquainted with death (Heb.11:5; cp Gen.5:22b). It may be that God transferred Enoch from one place to another so as to put him beyond the reach of wicked men who were seeking his soul. The environ to which he was relocated is not specified in Scripture. But there is no reason to suppose that he was transferred even to the ends of the earth, much less to the celestial sphere.

     Since Elijah ascended heavenward in a tempest (i.e., a violent storm, 2 Kings 2:1,11), it is evident that the atmospheric heavens are in view. For that matter, this would be clear enough from the AV rendering "whirlwind," since such a disturbance is as much an atmospheric phenomenon as is a tempest. The atmospheric heavens are the heavens in which birds fly over the earth, "on the face of the atmosphere of the heavens" (cp Gen.1:20). Indeed, the word "into" ("into heaven," AV, 2 Kings 2:1) is added; there is no preposition in the Hebrew. It is simply that thus, by a tempest, Yahweh removed Elijah "heavenward."

     This was done so that Elisha might assume the office of prophet which Elijah had formerly held (2 Kings 2). From a consideration of the nature of the case in the letter which Elijah wrote which is recorded in 2 Chronicles 21:12-15 (concerning events which themselves had not yet occurred at the time of Elijah's removal from the earth by means of the tempest), it seems clear that this letter was written, on earth, some ten years after the time of that occurrence. Thus we would conclude that after having been removed from the presence of his associates by means of the tempest, Elijah was evidently transported to some other locale, for further divine service, though no longer as a prophet.

     Thus, though Elijah's death is not specifically recorded, there is no more reason to suppose that he never died at all and remains alive today, than there is to suppose this of any other biblical figure whose death is likewise not recorded in Scripture.

     Moses' death is recorded in Deuteronomy 34:5,6. When Moses and Elijah are "seen" by the disciples on the mount of transformation (Matt.17:3), their visage is presented as part of a vision (Matt.17:9), which is a "mental sight," not a true or actual occurrence (cp Acts 12:9). Thus we may be further assured that Christ "alone has immortality" (1 Tim.6:15b).
J.R.C."

[eaglesway]

I would like to say that I always consider it arrogant to call the beliefs of other brothers and sisters, on issues such as this "foolhardy"- as if making such a statement reinforces the opinions of the speaker.

I think the conclusions of this piece are, with respect to the writer, nevertheless incorrect, and that God makes exceptions, and has done so in varifiable cases, for instance,

Why "dispute" over the boty of Moses?

To me it is simple. God made an exception of Moses.

Why would Enoch be caught up "So that he should not see death" and then die, as the writer asserts.

What was Elijah doing- going into retirement in a flaming chariot?  :laugh:

I don't think so.

What I think is that systematic theology is so important to some people they cannot allow that God, who is the God of the living and the dead, can do what He wants whenever He wants without asking permission of theologians and preachers and priests.


What about the resurrection of the OT saints who came out of their graves when Jesus died?

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

I wonder how many of these there were. maybe 144,000, who knows. Yet rev 19 says "This is the first resurrection"- but it is not the first resurrection if you do not accept that God makes exceptions as He wills.

It is the first general resurrection of the saints of the New Testament.

What I want to say here finally, is that I do not present my view as the final word, or assert that anyone elses view is "foolhardy". But this subject is obscure, and there are verses that can be read differently by honest seeking souls.


"Who has known the mind of the Lord, and who has been His counselor, and who has given to Him that He should repay....."

God can do what He wants when He wants. He can wake up Samuel to speak to Saul, calling him up from Sheol. He can send Jesus to speak to the spirits imprisoned since the days of Noah. All of the mental gyrations necessary to explain away these simple narrative facts of scripture- don't work for me.

[sheila]

  evryone like to totally leave out....and the spirit returns unto God who give it.......

    and we that remain alive at His return shall meet Him in the heaven/air/clouds...changed in

   a twinkling of an eye.  if this is possible with those who remain at His return..why could not the

same thing occurr with Enoch.Elijah?   I TELL YOU A SECRET..WE SHALL NOT ALL DIE

      without a vision the people perish............

[eaglesway]

mmm hmmmm. :o)

[Tom]

I would like to say that I always consider it arrogant to call the beliefs of other brothers and sisters, on issues such as this "foolhardy"- as if making such a statement reinforces the opinions of the speaker.

I think the conclusions of this piece are, with respect to the writer, nevertheless incorrect, and that God makes exceptions, and has done so in varifiable cases, for instance,

Why "dispute" over the boty of Moses?

To me it is simple. God made an exception of Moses.

Why would Enoch be caught up "So that he should not see death" and then die, as the writer asserts.

What was Elijah doing- going into retirement in a flaming chariot?  :laugh:

I don't think so.

What I think is that systematic theology is so important to some people they cannot allow that God, who is the God of the living and the dead, can do what He wants whenever He wants without asking permission of theologians and preachers and priests.


What about the resurrection of the OT saints who came out of their graves when Jesus died?

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

I wonder how many of these there were. maybe 144,000, who knows. Yet rev 19 says "This is the first resurrection"- but it is not the first resurrection if you do not accept that God makes exceptions as He wills.

It is the first general resurrection of the saints of the New Testament.

What I want to say here finally, is that I do not present my view as the final word, or assert that anyone elses view is "foolhardy". But this subject is obscure, and there are verses that can be read differently by honest seeking souls.


"Who has known the mind of the Lord, and who has been His counselor, and who has given to Him that He should repay....."

God can do what He wants when He wants. He can wake up Samuel to speak to Saul, calling him up from Sheol. He can send Jesus to speak to the spirits imprisoned since the days of Noah. All of the mental gyrations necessary to explain away these simple narrative facts of scripture- don't work for me.

Brother, I don't think it was really Samuel who spoke to Saul, but I always agree that everybody should be respected when sharing their perspective according to their interpretation of scripture even if disagreed with. I always try to remember to use quotes when I'm posting something by somebody so folks don't think I'm giving my own opinion. I understand why you disagree with the information in the post even though I think it makes sense. I agree that God can do whatever he wants and doesn't need our approval to perform miracles that seem to some to violate his own natural laws but actually, in my opinion, just transcend the laws of physics because he transcends time and space. The guy that wrote that article is a humble man who doesn't intend to offend folks and who just recently was kind of disturbed by my "Hell Is A Lie" video because I think he thinks it's a little too aggressive. I was told after mentioning that to the guy who is handling their website now that he is very sensitive to believers criticizing each other, and that's why he mentioned to me that I should maybe change the wording in the video to leave it up to those who see it to come to their own conclusions about whether the church lied or not. So I removed the vid as my YouTube channel trailer until the Concordant folks got the New Testament vids I had published on the same page onto their new channel. I published that vid not to offend anybody but kind of as a reaction to all the vids on YouTube claiming universal reconciliation is a lie. It might get those folks crazy, but I'm just stating the truth without beating around the bush the way I see it. The only other vid I have left on my channel now, since I deleted the New Testament now found on the Concordant channel, gets atheists crazy because they hate to hear that they have faith in anything, and they really hate being told they have blind faith because that's what they accuse us of. I simply presented some reasons why I believe they're not only wrong but guilty of what they're accusing us of. Anyway, the point is that I don't think Jim was trying to be offensive with the article even though it may have been interpreted that way. I'm sorry for the perceived offense. Different folks have different ways of making their case. There are a lot of hateful comments on YouTube by those who believe in torture in fire forever directed at those of us who believe in universal reconciliation that is clearly stated in Colossians 1:20, and there are also a lot of hateful comments by atheists directed at those of us who believe in God. Atheists pretend to be defending science claiming that we don't believe in science, but modern science has produced a lot of evidence for the existence of God. Even among scientists, there is debate about the interpretation of data. From what I've seen though, the more evidence that is published, especially concerning DNA, the more scientists are realizing there has to be a super-intelligent mind operating the universe, but the powers that be in the system threaten anybody who dares to speak doubt about Darwinism. Speaking the truth is often a very unpopular position to take, but I think it is important to do so. That doesn't mean I'm condemning your opinion of the information in the post. I'm just saying that sometimes long held ideas are hard to let go of when we're confronted with something that threatens their credibility. I know I had my mind blown continuously for a while when I first became aware of universal reconciliation by mysteriously getting bounced from a die hard KJV site to another site about it. I searched the Web for as much information as I could find trying to disprove universal reconciliation, but the more I read the more I came to think it had to be true. When I finally decided it was the truth, I was mad at the church for not telling me about it. Then I realized the church was just trying to maintain its worldly power by doing so. I read as much information as I could find about church history and became convinced that the church is really a global conspiracy with Satan as the puppet master. Despite that I try not to be offensive when dealing with church folks even though I am experiencing persecution from them, but I try to speak the truth. Anyway, I'm sorry you were offended by the post, brother. I don't think that was the author's intention, and it wasn't mine.     

[eaglesway]

I wasnt offended at all Tom :o)


I was just making my reply according to what I see in the scriptures- which is different than what was in the post, and categorized(not by you, but by the writer) as foolhardy- which of course, I don't agree with, because I believe differently than he.. I am familiar with all the positions on this and have studied it as thoroughly as anyone(I believe) and have come to a different conclusion- but again, as it is not foundational, it is of little consequence to me. I just feel the responsibility at times to make sure that the position I hold, along with others, is kept in play, not dismissed out of hand -if it is going to be discussed at all. I simply take the narrator at His word regarding Saul and Samuel and the witch at Endor, as I do with Moses and Elijah meeting Jesus on the mount. Others propose a different interpretation- and that is ok by me. This discussion has been held ad nauseum on the site, and I really don't care to debate it anyhow,lol.   :Peace2:

[RaiderGonzo]

Isn't there something said in Matthew about John the Baptist and Elijah?