Physical punishment?

[Nathan]

Tradition taught me that dying to self was to bring all my faults and weaknesses under submission.  It became "my" battle to fight.  Personal discipline was a good example of dealing with fleshly death. 
But now I see it as the "power" of my flesh is what's brought to death.  It no longer has control over me.  In this way, it's not about "my" efforts in controling my nature and my will, but it's accepting God's grace in those areas.  I'm beginning to think, God never intended for us to be strong.  It's not about spiritual weight-lifting, training my mind in the Scriptures sort of thing.  Because   in the end . . .say it with me . . .the battle is the Lord's. 

Which is what Paul meant when he stated "when I'm weak, then I am strong" and when he wanted God to remove the thorn . . .it's not about the thorn, it's about God's grace.  If we don't embrace the grace, we can't get past the thorn.

Hey . . .that was pretty good!!

[Dallas]

Quote from: Dallas on Today at 01:32:34 PM
I believe that there is and will never be any punishment, in fact I think the idea is quite disgusting to think that God would punish us, and that idea is people trying to deal with old eternal punishment doctrines in light of inclusion.


If it's a free pass for everyone, why not do whatever we want no matter how depraved?

Go ahead, go kill, sleep with and do as many evil things you can....and enjoy the repercussions of those very things.

All things are permissable but not all things are benificial.

Because of what Jesus did all people are included into the cross and will all ultimatley come to the fullness of that restoration, each in his own time. But all have recieved it, all have been fulfilled we are now just walking it out.

You want to kill someone, I would suggest you watch your back for police, family retaliation, all that good stuff....live by the sword die by it.

Oh no the eventual reward I think can be the same. All I'm wondering about is whether there is uniform opinion (and why) among URs as to the manner and time of getting there.

My brother Dallas objects to the idea that God ever "punishes" or that such "punishment" could ever be just. What I'm curious about is whether that opinion is in fact a necessary part of UR.

The idea of punishment is tied to the law. If you live by the law and break a rule you can be punished, but since the law has no more power and autority by what means then is there punishment? Does God want to punish you, God who sent His Son to Die in your place No, He doesn't want to punish you....but what about Jesus? Does He want to punish you? He who died for you Absolutley not.... Maybe then the Holy Spirit....no He came to teach us all things concearning to Jesus.


There is no punishment in the new covenant because there is no law with which we can break and become punishable by.

[CHB]

Hi Dallas,

Wouldn't you say that the consequences we suffer for the things we do in this earthly body is a type of punishment? It sure feels like I am being punished sometimes.

CHB

[Dallas]

Hi Dallas,

Wouldn't you say that the consequences we suffer for the things we do in this earthly body is a type of punishment? It sure feels like I am being punished sometimes.

No. It is simply the consequences. If it were punishment, someone or something is doing it to you. Next you argue you are doing it to yourself, yes you are inheriting your own consequences but it's not a punishment.

If you speed and break the law you will be punished with a ticket. If you speed and break the law GOD is NOT punishing you, those are the consequences of breaking the countries laws and municiple laws.

If you act like an ass to a friend and they don't want to hang out with you anymore that's not a punishment that the consequences for being an ass.

[Nathan]

I see the "first commandment" God gave Adam to be the same thing.  You dig a hole and tell people not to fall in it, then when someone does, you're accused of sending them to the bottom of the hole?  He was just telling Adam not to fall into this realm.  But carnality crept into the mind and enticed the mind to think of how great the hole is, and because the mind eventually caved and went into the hole and . . .nothing happened.  But once the spirit of man followed, "then" they found themselves at the bottom of it.

So God comes in and now, because they're no longer in the spirit realm of things, the rules change as well.  Now, man would have to work for any substinance.  His identity changed from God's own image, to one of labor. (sweat of your face)  And his mind, she'd labor also in birthing.  Truth is not learned, it's birthed.  It's original form is same as us, it's spiritual.  It's a spiritual seed to be planted in thought.  Spirit seed issued from my spirit into my mind, and then the expansion begins.  My mind goes through morning sickness.  Inwardly, life is making way for birthing to come, outwardly, everything we try to eat makes us sick.

It's all consequencial.  We're here as a consequence that happened beyond our control.  We're born into sin.  In the same way, we're redeemed due to a power beyond our control.  we are "born again" into life.

[Dallas]

I see the "first commandment" God gave Adam to be the same thing.  You dig a hole and tell people not to fall in it, then when someone does, you're accused of sending them to the bottom of the hole?  He was just telling Adam not to fall into this realm.  But carnality crept into the mind and enticed the mind to think of how great the hole is, and because the mind eventually caved and went into the hole and . . .nothing happened.  But once the spirit of man followed, "then" they found themselves at the bottom of it.

So God comes in and now, because they're no longer in the spirit realm of things, the rules change as well.  Now, man would have to work for any substinance.  His identity changed from God's own image, to one of labor. (sweat of your face)  And his mind, she'd labor also in birthing.  Truth is not learned, it's birthed.  It's original form is same as us, it's spiritual.  It's a spiritual seed to be planted in thought.  Spirit seed issued from my spirit into my mind, and then the expansion begins.  My mind goes through morning sickness.  Inwardly, life is making way for birthing to come, outwardly, everything we try to eat makes us sick.

It's all consequencial.  We're here as a consequence that happened beyond our control.  We're born into sin.  In the same way, we're redeemed due to a power beyond our control.  we are "born again" into life

The problem with that whole line of thinkning is, Adam and Eve weren't in spirit they were in physical already, also there wasn't a command given in the garden. When God said, don't eat from the tree of good/evil or you will die, He didn't say Don't eat from the tree or i will kill you He was explaining consequence.

No different than when I first said to my daughter don't put your hand on the stove or you will get burnt, I didn't say don't put your hand on the stove or I will burn you.

No when Adam and Eve ate from the tree a bunuch of things happened. None of them were punishments they were effects of what happened. Just as if my daughters hand had touched the element and been burned, Adam and Eve ate and death entered creation and seperation from God (a form of death), self-reliance (a form of death) etc. No they weren't being punished for being disobedient, they simply got burnt because they touched the stove and God knowing of that before hand reached into the medicine cabnit and grabbed the ointment, because He is the loving Father, and pulled out Jesus to heal them and all others.