Noah's explicit instruction before and after judgment

[gregoryfl]

If you, like me, believe that every word in the scripture (as originally written before translation) is as it is for a reason, then take note of the following differences in the instructions given to Noah when ENTERING the ark:

You shall come into the ark; you, and your sons, and your woman, and your sons' women with you.

and when EXITING the ark:

Go out from the ark; you, and your woman, and your sons and your sons' women with you.

If anyone is interested, what difference do you see, and more importantly, why do you think the difference is there? What, if any, significance does it have for us today?

[joeteekay]

Very perceptive Ronen. T hats a real mind bender.

So entering the ark was Noah, His sons and their women (wives).
Exciting the ark was Noah, his wife and His sons and their wives.

So we find that Noahs wife is not one who is mentioned entering the ark but exited it.
And yet she entered it if she exited.

I believe the account is scripturally accurate and have to assume a spiritual meaning concerning Noah's wife.
Somehow related to the story of Lot? Or something related to Christ and His Bride?

Will give this more thought as I know others will too.
Real good post.

[gregoryfl]

Grr. I am so sorry Joe. It was by accident that I did not include Noah's wife in the first quote. I just fixed it. There still is a difference though, as to the order.

[joeteekay]

I am sorry too. I should check my concordance before responding.  :doh:

[rosered]

If anyone is interested, what difference do you see, and more importantly, why do you think the difference is there? What, if any, significance does it have for us today?

I have no idea   Ronen ,lol


  The Children [sons before the wife   as to saving life
  I know when you are married the two  become one flesh ..
and thought maybe  has some bearing on it ?
I do not know   .. :dsunny:

[sheila]

  males first..going in.?....... :dontknow:

[gregoryfl]

Thank you Rose and Sheila,

Going further with your point Rose, when you say sons going before the wife, I am just trying to follow your line of reasoning...do you see it having to do with salvation because the sons would be the ones who carry the seed for the future generations?

And Sheila,

Males going in first, Noah and his sons...any thoughts on why?

By the way, the thoughts I have on this are by no means THE correct answer. So if our Father is showing you something different than what I am seeing, I would love to read it. The reason I am not sharing what I see yet is because I do not want to predisposition anyone toward any one way of looking at the text.

Ronen

[sheila]

idk .....all others went in two by two. Same with Adam being singular before Eve was formed.

   in the image of God.......there was nothing but God..and the whole creation was formed from

    His substance.

[rosered]

Thank you Rose and Sheila,

Going further with your point Rose, when you say sons going before the wife, I am just trying to follow your line of reasoning...do you see it having to do with salvation because the sons would be the ones who carry the seed for the future generations?

And Sheila,

Males going in first, Noah and his sons...any thoughts on why?

By the way, the thoughts I have on this are by no means THE correct answer. So if our Father is showing you something different than what I am seeing, I would love to read it. The reason I am not sharing what I see yet is because I do not want to predisposition anyone toward any one way of looking at the text.

Ronen

Exactly my point      Ronen !,     ones who carry the seed for the future generations...

Like Sheila  seeing  made in GODS IMAGE     as male and female    / As One  being    wife of their youth    ,,,and what comes out of one flesh being the Sons /wives

  What God has joined together let no man separate /divide     and the flood waters were coming and to'' save  the seed ''.......

[Lazarus Short]

God was beginning to separate the four couples, and thus, their descendants.  The table of nations fails to mention any other male offspring of Noah and his wife.  Maybe they only had girls...?

or

The word order was required for the coding (per Panin) to work.

or

The good ideas above.

[gregoryfl]

Thank you Lazarus,

I see that you are also referring to the order given when entering the ark.

In the order given when they are leaving the ark, why would it be listed differently?

And maybe another question to throw in...if you were listing a man and his wife and his sons and his sons wives, how would you normally group them?

Ronen

[rosered]

 

How long were Noah and his sons in the ark ?

  40 days and 40 nights
  but it says     from 500 years old    When Noah begin to build to when the floods come    was      601

to 627 years  it was dry  again  ????  its a bit confusing to me   Ronen , help ??




24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

8 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters receded. 2 Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed, and the rain had stopped falling from the sky. 3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down, 4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. 5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible.

6 After forty days Noah opened a window he had made in the ark

7 and sent out a raven, and it kept flying back and forth until the water had dried up from the earth. 8 Then he sent out a dove to see if the water had receded from the surface of the ground. 9 But the dove could find nowhere to perch because there was water over all the surface of the earth; so it returned to Noah in the ark. He reached out his hand and took the dove and brought it back to himself in the ark. 10 He waited seven more days and again sent out the dove from the ark. 11 When the dove returned to him in the evening, there in its beak was a freshly plucked olive leaf! Then Noah knew that the water had receded from the earth. 12 He waited seven more days and sent the dove out again, but this time it did not return to him.

13 By the first day of the first month of Noah's six hundred and first year, the water had dried up from the earth. Noah then removed the covering from the ark and saw that the surface of the ground was dry. 14 By the twenty-seventh day of the second month the earth was completely dry.

15 Then God said to Noah, 16 "Come out of the ark, you and your wife and your sons and their wives.

[gregoryfl]

Most say around 370 days.

[rosered]

Most say around 370 days.

  Ok  thanks so much !!!    birthing sons and daughters    and many creatures    , under the protection of the ARK it seems

I am not doing well on this lol   
  I will let you  :gimmefive:    and others continue      , way to go Laz!!!       You might be on to something there   :thumbsup:


  :friendstu:  Blessings

[Lazarus Short]

Something in this thread reminded me of a thread I started on ATS.  Here's my original post:

A lot of writers on pre-history, or even ancient history have brought up the idea that the year was, at one time, 360 days in length. Supposedly, the 360-degree circle was established in such a time. The other day, I was looking in my Ferrar Fenton The Holy Bible in Modern English, and I came across a note I had made in the account of the Flood story.

First, look at Genesis 7:11, which states that the Flood began on month 2, day 17. Then in verse 23, we see that "...the waters overwhelmed the earth one hundred and fifty days." After that, the waters began to dry, and in Genesis 8:4, we see that the ark rested on month 7, day 17. So, from 02/17 to 07/17, is of course, five months, and being 150 days, it implies 30-day months. 30 X 12 = 360. Simple. The KJV says the same.   

[rosered]

Something in this thread reminded me of a thread I started on ATS.  Here's my original post:

A lot of writers on pre-history, or even ancient history have brought up the idea that the year was, at one time, 360 days in length. Supposedly, the 360-degree circle was established in such a time. The other day, I was looking in my Ferrar Fenton The Holy Bible in Modern English, and I came across a note I had made in the account of the Flood story.

First, look at Genesis 7:11, which states that the Flood began on month 2, day 17. Then in verse 23, we see that "...the waters overwhelmed the earth one hundred and fifty days." After that, the waters began to dry, and in Genesis 8:4, we see that the ark rested on month 7, day 17. So, from 02/17 to 07/17, is of course, five months, and being 150 days, it implies 30-day months. 30 X 12 = 360. Simple. The KJV says the same.

   Now, that is awesome   Laz!!


  I was going by Noah's age   as well    I find that pretty interesting   and never looked that close before    ....  lol

So thanks  you all   :dsunny:
 

[sheila]

150 days =5 months...time of torment of locust stings that come up out of pit...  connected......

   world and floodwaters.....world stored up for fire.

[sheila]

time of torment....5 months offspring of men and fallen angels went through  while Noah and co.

were sealed up in the ark[God closed the door]

  locust's torment...not harm those sealed. smoke of the pit of the fallen star

[joeteekay]

(KJV) Gen 7:7  And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
CLV(i) 7 And coming is Noah, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark in view of the water of the deluge

Gen 8:16  Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.

CLV(i) 16 Fare forth from the ark, you, and your wife, and your sons, and your sons' wives with you.

Gen 8:18  And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:

CLV(i) 18 And forth is faring Noah, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him.

Relevant or not, but I see that the group exited the ark in the same order as they entered the ark
And yet God specifically told Noah in vs. 16 the order in which to exit. You and your wife first. Disobedience by Noah? I do not know? A spiritual lesson? Likely. After the flood, typifying the world as Sheila noted, a different relationship is to be had between man and wife. Just my 2 cents. :2c: :2c:

[eaglesway]

(KJV) Gen 7:7  And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
CLV(i) 7 And coming is Noah, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark in view of the water of the deluge

Gen 8:16  Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.

CLV(i) 16 Fare forth from the ark, you, and your wife, and your sons, and your sons' wives with you.

Gen 8:18  And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:

CLV(i) 18 And forth is faring Noah, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him.

Relevant or not, but I see that the group exited the ark in the same order as they entered the ark
And yet God specifically told Noah in vs. 16 the order in which to exit. You and your wife first. Disobedience by Noah? I do not know? A spiritual lesson? Likely. After the flood, typifying the world as Sheila noted, a different relationship is to be had between man and wife. Just my 2 cents. :2c: :2c:

I don't see any order. I just see it as acomplete  list of folks who went. 2+3 =5 or 3 +2 = 5. The ramp was probably wide enough they all went up together.  :laugh:

[gregoryfl]

Ah, the beauty of being able to look at 2 simple passages and seeing different things.

I will go ahead and share what I see. During the time of judgment, when they entered the ark, the women were separated from their men:

Noah and his sons
and his woman and his sons' women

After the judgment was over and they were exiting the ark, the women were grouped with their men again:

Noah and his woman
and his sons and his sons' women

During this time of judgment, their relationship was lived as an expression of that judgment time. I believe this during the time they were on the ark they lived similarly to what Paul said during the last days of judgment leading up to the destruction of the temple:

This is what I mean, brothers: the appointed time has grown very short. From now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none,
(1Co 7:29)

After the judgment was over, they were announced together again, a man to his woman, indicating that they would once again participate in the mandate to fill the earth and replenish it.

There is yet another interesting point (to me) that shows how the wording is not accidental, but deliberate. In the Masoretic Hebrew text, it appears as though Noah did not exit the ark in the same way God told him to. Joeteekay pointed this out:

Gen 8:16  Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.

Noah
wife
sons
sons' wives

Gen 8:18  And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:

Noah
sons
wife
sons' wives

In both the Aramaic of this text, as well as the Septuagint, it reads this way:

Gen 8:16  Go forth from the ark, you, and your woman, and your sons, and thy sons' women with you.

Noah
wife
sons
sons' wives

Gen 8:18 Noah went out, and his woman, and his sons, and his sons' women with him.

Noah
wife
sons
sons' wives

I would tend to agree with the texts that the Aramaic and Greek witnesses translate from, which has them exiting in the same arrangement (I am sure they were not in single file line John :)) as they were told.

I believe, while I am using the word 'order' that it was a representation, not a literal order...representative of how their relationships were different due to judgement, just as it was in the short time left during the 1st century.

No, I am not advocating for today that we ignore our relationships and live as though we did not have wives, or husbands, for that matter. But whatever can be taken from those texts, as well as Paul's writings, and of course, Yeshuas' as well, when he spoke of those in Noah's day eating and drinking and marrying, taking no note of the time of judgment they were in, I think it is at least a remez 'hint' of such found in the account of Noah.

I do not wish for this to become a point of argument so if you disagree I am fine with you sharing why, but I do not intend on trying to defend what I see here, just so you know. :)

[rosered]

  Well this makes sense to me now that you explained Ronen !!
  I would have never considered   it seeing in just that!!

good observations !! and Joe too  :thumbsup:   

[sheila]

 I see merit in what you have proposed.  Just as in the days of Noah..they were eating and drinking..marrying

and giving in marriage...and took NO NOTE.  a time to embrace..and a time to refrain from embracing.

  those who marry will have trouble in the flesh...I have heard that 'trouble' is a woman. :girlheart:

[Seth]

That 1 Cor 7 took me by surprise as at first I thought it was saying literally behave as though you are not married, but contextually it looks like Paul is saying don't cling to things that are temporary and passing away, or don't make the cares of this life the most important thing, since the framework of this world is temporary. Not sure that interpretation figures into the OP, but that's what I got from it.

[gregoryfl]

Yes Sheila, I see the temporary time while on the ark to refrain from the task given to man in the beginning 'be fruitful, and multiply, fill the earth...' Woman is only trouble if she has access to a rolling pin.  :eek:

Seth, I see it basically the same way, as some make the marriage relationship, as important as it is, the main thing in life, and yet it, too, is temporary. I believe it had to do with attitude, not outright neglect, for he describes how married couples should be together in the earlier part of the chapter.