Near Death Experience

[truthseeker]

I hope this is the right board to post this question.

Has anyone read or heard of the book written by a guy called Bill Wiese, "23 minutes in hell"?Apparently he had a Near death experience and claimed God took him to hell  to show him what it would be like if he was unfortunate enough to die in his sin.In this he was tormented by indescribable demons.

I apologise if you`ve discussed this or similar items before But i`d be very interested in other members` views and opinions.

yours in Christ

Dev

[AbbasChild]

Hi Truthseeker, I had the same question some months ago, even though I had already made up my mind about that book but wanted to know what others thought about it. Generaly I believe that people can have this experiences but we need to remember that most visions are highly symbolic and not to be taken literaly. If I remember correctly I think I even read an article by Gary Amirault (founder of Tentmaker) once in which he wrote that he had a 'hell' experience and after he came out of it (and because of it) was convinced of Universal Salvation as shown forth in the scriptures. So even if people have this negative experiences that doesn't prove that they were to be talen literal nor do they prove that the experience will last for ever. Even if I would not believe in Universal Salvation I would reject Bill Wiese's book because it doesn't confirm scripture. Where does the bible say that 'hell' (sheol/hades) is a place of torment inhabited by demons, that look like monsters. The bible doesn't say anything about the appearances of demons and it denies that they live underneath the earth in some burning place where they imprison and torture unbelievers? Where does it say that there is sulphur/brimstone burning? Hades/Sheol is not Gehenna and is certainly not the lake of the fire described in the book of Revelation. Bill Wiese's book is full of scriptures quotet out of context to make things fit and it is also filled with pagan imagery that have absolutley nothing to do with the bible. Another thing that botherd me when I saw the guy giving his testimony was that the pastor of the particular church walked up to him and said very excitet: "Tell them what you told me how big the demon was you saw" or something like that, after which Wiese described some monster creature in colorful and scary language. Why do this folks get so excitet about this kind of stuff? Its like a fantasy-roleplay club to me. Lets think the best and asume the guy had a real experience (which I can't say if it is true or not) it seems to me that he got it through demons and not the Holy Spirit cause there is nothing in it that glorifies our Heavenly Father or His Son Jesus Christ. Rather the whole book is about the supposed power of the demonic realm. We are called to test every prophecy, vision and revelation and I don't think the book passes neither the test of the scriptures nor of the Spirit. The same is true of Mary K. Baxter's "A Divine Revelation Of Hell". All true revelation is centerd around Christ and not about other things. It seems to me that this kind of writings bring in a lot of money for the author as well as the publishers and its no accident that this 'revelations' pop up in our time when the Everlasting Gospel beginns to spread throughout the world. But they are based on fables and/or the revelations of demons. Sorry if I sound harsh, but I think this needs to be adressed cause this filthy stuff is hindering people to enter into a real realtionship with their Heavenly Dad and His Son Jesus Christ rooted and founded in love, because it ties people to a religon based on fear and I pray that this nonsense will get exposed for what it is in the near future. By the way no one who has honestley researched NDE's comes away from it believing that there is an 'everlasting hell'. I hope this was of some help. 

[AbbasChild]

Here's are some links that adress this issue:

http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/NDE-hell.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/reviews/ADivineRevelationofHellbyMaryKBaxter.html

[AbbasChild]

Just another thought that came to my mind is that it is very strange that its always 'believers' that get this 'hell experiences' which have already been indocrinated by false teachings. Both, Wiese and Baxter come from denominations that are highly into 'hell and brimstone' and 'endtimes' teachings. If 'hell' is eternal as they claim why did they come back and why do they mostly see other christians in that place (who supposedley didn't live right) instead of unbelievers? This experiences preach salvation by works and will cripple the body of Christ when people start to believe them, cause what good news do we have to share if we can't be even sure that we a measuring up? It seems to me that a religious spirit of fear is working his way into the 'church' through this books and folks. Do we honestley believe that our Heavenly Dad would place one of his children into the hands of some monsters to torture them so that they can write a book about it and freak us all out? There is no purpose in writing this kind of books, but only to bring people into bondage to fear and a religious system that has discoverd that it lacks the love and the power to attraced people, because it doesn't draw people to Christ but to itself. Father have mercy on us!

[gatheredfragments]

i have personally had the near death experience.

i didn't go to a place of demons and suffering...i was taken to light.

but too...i was just a child at the time.

and its funny...cos that experience has made me not fear death....spiritually....but it sure does keep my soul on its toes... :bowing:

what i experienced...in love ...makes me think that when someone tells a tale of otherwise...of 'hell' as it goes...the reason is that they were IN their soulish mind, experiencing what its like to die in selfishness and selfish desire. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That's EXACTLY what He showed me it was GF......a hell or separation of that part of their soul nature from God, of their own soulish making. The "they" part of the equation descends alright, into their own stony hearts (their "Eve"), which is why many describe their surroundings as "like a cave". Their tormentors were the things that were speaking to them while still in the body, that were not overcome and silenced thru the mind of Christ, ie. the hate, revenge, malice, lust, jealousy, ect.

The soul stays bound in whatever it did not overcome, the spirit goes back to the One who sent it. This should be so obvious to us, as the resurrection IS the union of the soul (and body) with the Spirit, AGAIN, in a nutshell. But it was veiled from our eyes until the last days of the last day.

I shared all this on the old board, but He took me with Him in the Spirit into someone else's hell, as He set them free. I will never forget it as long as I live. Blessings to all.....

PS. I was awake, and had 4 people praying for me as God revealed this to us.

[ken]

Bill Wiese's was not a NDE. It might have a tinge of legitimacy if it had been (even then it would be extremely doubtful that it came from God). His testimony is that he went to sleep, and then had the experience. 

I figure at the most the guy just had a really horrendus, demonically inspired nightmare.

One that unfortunately is being used to propagate a demonic doctrine further on the Body.

[truthseeker]

Thanks, Floyd,Gath, Ken  & Cardinal for your input.

I have read about a dozen or more NDEs recently and  I am a bit sceptical  of  many, though they  speak mostly of feeling nothing but great love overcoming them. It  still amazes me how Christians appear to take great joy in  not telling the Good News.

I stopped going to the Church that I  had been a member of for nearly 30 yrs about 18 months ago. I knew it was time when the preacher said, after preaching yet again of eternal torment. "People have accused me of preaching a scary sermon, I make no apology. I`d rather scare people into heaven than let them go into hell"

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well, for me it seems so simple now. Nothing is wasted in God's economy. Everything is processed back into it's origin, which is Him, for nothing was made apart from Him. HOW He does the processing has been misunderstood, viewed thru a darkened glass (soul), and we all accepted the views that were handed down to us instead of getting it from the Spirit of the Lord direct. Therein lies the root of ALL our problems, Amen? Blessings to you......

[gatheredfragments]

here's the story:

i was 13 years old, riding my horse, Dusty.  my aunt and her kids came to visit.  my mom asked me to give my cousins rides.  so...i did as i was asked...only Dusty didnt' like it (as a foal she had a injury to her hind leg..never did like pressure on it)...so..she got buggy with me. 

i had my cousin get off ...and then i pinched dusty's ear for misbehaving...tugged on the hack-a-more...and we were doing fine...but..she backed up into a whole in the ground...twisted her hoof and reared up...falling over on top of me.. it crushed my upper body...

i felt my spirit leave...'poof'...i was OUT of my body...i heard my cousin say .."is she dead?"....then i watched the whole scene from up in the air...the paramedics come and take my body and put it on a stretcher...and then...i felt this warmth.....it was love and warm..and i sort of 'rolled over' in the air....and i saw light...and i was happy....and i was gone into it...

it was three days later i woke up from a coma....and the funny part was i could see perfectly...i've worn glasses all my life since i was only two years old...but for about five hours...i could see perfectly...

then...back to living...

over the years...as i lived out expriences..it was around age 25 that Father revealed a couple things from in the light...
that i had communed with many other beings there...
and that i would follow the right path ..

the past three years...since i have been devoted to HIM...and the dross has really been burned off...i have experienced more deja vu than i can relate....

so there's my experience...

oh..and since that time....i have been able to see things that many would claim me crazy to be able to see....call it 'tuned' in to the supernatural...

God is mysterious. 

[arcticmonster2003]

quote gatheredfragments

oh..and since that time....i have been able to see things that many would claim me crazy to be able to see....call it 'tuned' in to the supernatural...

Interesting experience, what things do you see, or are they personal? I doubt anyone here will call you crazy.

[SeekerSA]

Don't you all find it strange that the hell NDE's get better press than the heaven NDE's?

Anything to support the myth I suppose :sigh:

BIC

[hopeful]

Well, some people (not me!) love to get scared!   :dontknow:

[firstborn888]

I figure at the most the guy just had a really horrendus, demonically inspired nightmare.

Exactly my sentiments. His commentary is also odd on the youtube vid - he makes a joke about how precious water is to him since this 'experience' and then says "in fact, I think I'll drink some now" and everybody laughs  :mshock:

It's like dante's inferno on steroids. A strange delusion indeed. I just made some comments on different youtube vids and recommend that people come here for the real gospel (or go and watch this:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=_KARi1p-M_s     )

  - b

[gatheredfragments]

i see a lot of things many people see...
like aura, colors magnified on the hands and faces of people during expression

at a church on easter sunday last year...i saw the entire building stretch...and turn dark...and the people inside were either dark black blobs or lights floating around in the space there.

i've seen human faces distort in shape and identity to very ugly beings, and these usually when mocking Christ. really gross looking too.

sometimes i can see what you might call 'intentions' on humans, when they are trying to hide their desires, i get a clear picture of their 'will' behind their actions, not quite the image change as above, but distinctively ego centered exposure

i get confessions all the time...especially in public places...areas around will expand and contract...and people i've never met will come up and just start telling me their life stories and sometimes start crying

i don't know that i'm any different than any of you folks...maybe you have the same experiences...and NDE has nothing to do with it, but after that happened as a kid 'normal' was out of the picture..

i don't want to bring up the really negative things that i've seen and witnessed,  because they don't shine light ...they just expose evil.  but i can say that what has attempted to put out the light that God put on me...hasn't stood the test..and thats nothing about me...that's the power of God. 

there have been a total of six death experiences on this life...one was an NDE...and it was light, warm, and love....the rest failed is all i can say. 

i've heard angels sing in a choir, literally stopping me in my tracks leaving me in awe while they sang

people who've known me for years have witnessed stuff like this around me

God is intense. 

I hope this satisfies your question, arcticmonster, the list is long. 

[arcticmonster2003]

Thanks for sharing, gatheredfragments.

[hopeful]

God is intense. 

Ha-ha!  Aint it the truth! 
And He moves through His people as He sees fit! 
Praise you, Lord!   :cloud9:
Thanks for sharing GF.   :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I don't think ANYONE is ever the same after an intense experience with God; I don't even see how they could be. Thanks for sharing GF.  :thumbsup:

[Michele]

Thanks for sharing your experiences gf........enjoyed reading about them. :icon_flower:

NDE's fascinate me.....I've been interested in them since I was very young.  I do wonder why some are able to recall the experineces after coming back to life, and others don't.  Perhaps it is similar to how some nights we are able to recall our dreams clearly, and other times we remember nothing.

I've been studying some about Pre-Birth Memories/Experiences........I think the two experiences (NDE's and PBE's) are very much linked to one another.

I found that bit about the de ja vu experiences for gf interesting.  GF........do you notice that your perception of time is different after having the experience?

[hopeful]

I've been studying some about Pre-Birth Memories/Experiences........I think the two experiences (NDE's and PBE's) are very much linked to one another.

My sister once calmly told me, "I was born again on my birthday."
Since she was so clam, I didn't think she meant what I hoped she meant.   :Sparkletooth:
Turns out someone helped her "relive" her natural birth experience- went back in time or something.  :Sparkletooth:

Back on topic...

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: No way......that's a new one to me. What did they do hypnosis regression?

[truthseeker]

There are some fascinating stuff written here

[hopeful]

:cloud9: No way......that's a new one to me. What did they do hypnosis regression?

I didn't ask for details.  :dontknow:
I was so disapointed that she didn't mean the other "born again".   :sigh:

[ChuckK3]

I am becoming more convinced that this "hell and torment" business is really all in your head.  I would regard our dreams as a possible precursor to what we can expect in eternity.  There are those who have nightmares, some even recurring.  Then there are those who have pleasant dreams.  And then there are some, like me lately, who have what seems to start out as a nightmare, only to end up having a pleasant dream, with a victory over the nightmarish element.  It seems to me anymore that I have more scarier experiences in my waking hours in real than I do in my dreams.  Maybe through my dream experiences, I can muster confidence in the real world.

This is what I think NDEs really are, just vivid dreams, brought on by the most deepest sleep.  (And of course remember, death is often liken unto sleep.) Neurologists have done studies showing how the brain tends to perceive more vivid visions when the subject is in a deeper sleep.

It is not impossible in a vivid dream to see departed loved ones, as many who have claimed to have an NDE have said to have experienced.  My now deceased younger brother has appeared to me an quite a few of my dreams.

Now out of body experiences, I don't know about.  I can't quite say I have ever had one.

My  :2c:

Chuck :smile:

[Michele]

I am becoming more convinced that this "hell and torment" business is really all in your head.  I would regard our dreams as a possible precursor to what we can expect in eternity.  There are those who have nightmares, some even recurring.  Then there are those who have pleasant dreams.  And then there are some, like me lately, who have what seems to start out as a nightmare, only to end up having a pleasant dream, with a victory over the nightmarish element.  It seems to me anymore that I have more scarier experiences in my waking hours in real than I do in my dreams.  Maybe through my dream experiences, I can muster confidence in the real world.

This is what I think NDEs really are, just vivid dreams, brought on by the most deepest sleep.  (And of course remember, death is often liken unto sleep.) Neurologists have done studies showing how the brain tends to perceive more vivid visions when the subject is in a deeper sleep.

It is not impossible in a vivid dream to see departed loved ones, as many who have claimed to have an NDE have said to have experienced.  My now deceased younger brother has appeared to me an quite a few of my dreams.

Now out of body experiences, I don't know about.  I can't quite say I have ever had one.

My  :2c:

Chuck :smile:

Wow......I've had such similar thoughts Chuck.  You might be surprised to find out that those dreams are more real than you think.

It's funny......when I think back at the past.....the memories I have seem just as real to me as my dreams.  The only thing I can be quite sure is real is this moment.......everything else is but a dream.

Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.