The 2nd death....is death really destroyed?

[friendofmankind]

If death is thrown into the lake of fire...(the 2nd death) and the people whos names were not written in the book of life are also thrown into the lake of fire....what happens to them and to death?

Simply put...if the lake of fire destroys 'death', then does it not then destroy the people who are also thrown into it?

How is death done away with if the lake of fire is the 'second death'?


Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.  (Or, 'he was thrown into the 'second death'.

How would you answer this?

[sheila]

   Everyone is given a new name. The death of death is life...

   resurrection.

  ..the only thing that remains in that fire and is not consumed

of it..is what is of GOD..all else is dissolved.

   Blessings :HeartThrob:

[Paul Hazelwood]

Saul will not be in the book of life,  Paul is the new name of Gods Child who we read about in the bible.

I would have to say, we all have a Saul name and a Paul name in that figurative fashion.   

   

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:

[friendofmankind]

But if the lake of fire is a second 'death'....how is death done away with?

"Where oh death is thy victory"
"Jesus abolished death",
etc...

The second 'death' seems to remain since it isn't destroyed and is called the second death, although...It destroys the first 'death' but nevertheless, the 'second' death doesnt seem to be destroyed...So how is death defeated?

Where am I going wrong here lol.

[rosered]

But if the lake of fire is a second 'death'....how is death done away with?

"Where oh death is thy victory"
"Jesus abolished death",
etc...

The second 'death' seems to remain since it isn't destroyed and is called the second death, although...It destroys the first 'death' but nevertheless, the 'second' death doesnt seem to be destroyed...So how is death defeated?

Where am I going wrong here lol.

  Hi Marc ,

  the way it is written , it says  BLESSED  is he  who is in the  1st resurrection   for the second death has NO POWER

  the power over those not found in the book of life are still in fear of death
 
those  delivered from death are found in love , joy and peace

  Thats how  I see it  now ...

   Hell and death are cast into this lake of fire
  God is a consuming Fire

  ps  I began to look into the burning bush that was not comsumed and the angel that appeared out of it as a FLAME
as a clue  to how the process is done  :thumbsup:


Hbr 1:7 And of the angels he saith,

  Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.   :HeartThrob:  For me it not  so   literal anylonger

[annuit coeptis]

Friend: try to look at it this way, after rosered Quote below

But if the lake of fire is a second 'death'....how is death done away with?

"Where oh death is thy victory"
"Jesus abolished death",
etc...

The second 'death' seems to remain since it isn't destroyed and is called the second death, although...It destroys the first 'death' but nevertheless, the 'second' death doesnt seem to be destroyed...So how is death defeated?

Where am I going wrong here lol.

  Hi Marc ,

  the way it is written , it says  BLESSED  is he  who is in the  1st resurrection   for the second death has NO POWER

  the power over those not found in the book of life are still in fear of death
 
those  delivered from death are found in love , joy and peace

  Thats how  I see it  now ...

   Hell and death are cast into this lake of fire
  God is a consuming Fire

  ps  I began to look into the burning bush that was not comsumed and the angel that appeared out of it as a FLAME
as a clue  to how the process is done  :thumbsup:


Hbr 1:7 And of the angels he saith,

  Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.   :HeartThrob:  For me it not  so   literal any longer

First death, mankind was dragged into death by one man,

Second death, after the resurrection , God's Anointed Son Dragged All Mankind into life Eternal, and when the human is awaken to the knowledge that he is a son of the father God, or when God chooses to awaken him, he starts on the path of the new life that has been awaken, the Second Death happened when God's Anointed kill death on the cross or there abouts.

[bobf]

But if the lake of fire is a second 'death'....how is death done away with?

"Where oh death is thy victory"
"Jesus abolished death",
etc...

The second 'death' seems to remain since it isn't destroyed and is called the second death, although...It destroys the first 'death' but nevertheless, the 'second' death doesnt seem to be destroyed...So how is death defeated?

Where am I going wrong here lol.

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Death is destroyed when
(1) the dead
(2) die in the Lord.

That they may rest from their labors.

Death number one is destroyed.  Death number two does not need to be destroyed.

[Apoc]

I side with annuit coeptis' thoughts but I also have been taught something else that is dually possible.  The challenge of  Revelation is the sequencing.  Revelation may have been a prophecy of things to come should Christ had not saved the world, should he have not drank the cup of the world's sin.  While on the the Island of Patmus, John received a vision that expounded upon who Jesus Christ is.  All the devastation manifested in the book of Revelation would be what Christ took on upon his body/soul on the cross.  If he didn't go to the cross, then we would have had these things poured out on us.

[Beloved Servant]

The Revelation of the Lord takes place in every son of God right between your ears.
The horses ride, now, in your being.

[claypot]

The Revelation of the Lord takes place in every son of God right between your ears.
The horses ride, now, in your being.

Amen BServ. I might say 'in your heart' instead of 'between your ears' but I think we may be saying the same thing.

cp

[micah7:9]

   Everyone is given a new name. The death of death is life...

   resurrection.

  ..the only thing that remains in that fire and is not consumed

of it..is what is of GOD..all else is dissolved.

   Blessings :HeartThrob:

Praise His Name! I really like that! Glory!

[micah7:9]

But if the lake of fire is a second 'death'....how is death done away with?

"Where oh death is thy victory"
"Jesus abolished death",
etc...

The second 'death' seems to remain since it isn't destroyed and is called the second death, although...It destroys the first 'death' but nevertheless, the 'second' death doesnt seem to be destroyed...So how is death defeated?




Where am I going wrong here lol.

This is a paraphrase, but except a corn of wheat fall to the ground and die, it cannot produce life.
Joh 12:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

[micah7:9]

The Revelation of the Lord takes place in every son of God right between your ears.
The horses ride, now, in your being.

Amen BServ. I might say 'in your heart' instead of 'between your ears' but I think we may be saying the same thing.

cp
Amen and Amen.

[Nathan]

I side with annuit coeptis' thoughts but I also have been taught something else that is dually possible.  The challenge of  Revelation is the sequencing.  Revelation may have been a prophecy of things to come should Christ had not saved the world, should he have not drank the cup of the world's sin.  While on the the Island of Patmus, John received a vision that expounded upon who Jesus Christ is.  All the devastation manifested in the book of Revelation would be what Christ took on upon his body/soul on the cross.  If he didn't go to the cross, then we would have had these things poured out on us.

I love what Claypot and Beloved Servant have responded on this one.  And what they're doing is giving notice that there is a whole other realm beyond the words our natural eyes are reading.  There "is" a natural application.  It's not a total metaphor, but the natural is a sign pointing to spiritual truth.  A sign in and of itself carries no profoundness of it's own.  The destination it's pointing to is what our goal is.  But the sign still exists.  

For me, Revelation is not so much a picture of what "would" happen should the world reject Jesus.  But it's what "did" happen to a nation that "did" reject Jesus.  A.D. 70 is the pivotal moment in natural time where these things were building toward in this natural realm.  

But once I come to that, I can release it and pursue the inward implication the Spirit now brings as it speaks through to my spirit on how my own inner workings manifest.  Once we identify the unresolved, we obtain authority over it.  Walking in the spirit is walking in "His" authority as we live in this realm.

[Cardinal]

I side with annuit coeptis' thoughts but I also have been taught something else that is dually possible.  The challenge of  Revelation is the sequencing.  Revelation may have been a prophecy of things to come should Christ had not saved the world, should he have not drank the cup of the world's sin.  While on the the Island of Patmus, John received a vision that expounded upon who Jesus Christ is.  All the devastation manifested in the book of Revelation would be what Christ took on upon his body/soul on the cross.  If he didn't go to the cross, then we would have had these things poured out on us.

I love what Claypot and Beloved Servant have responded on this one.  And what they're doing is giving notice that there is a whole other realm beyond the words our natural eyes are reading.  There "is" a natural application.  It's not a total metaphor, but the natural is a sign pointing to spiritual truth.  A sign in and of itself carries no profoundness of it's own.  The destination it's pointing to is what our goal is.  But the sign still exists. 

:cloud9: AMEN  :thumbsup:

[Dallas]

Is death really destroyed....

Yes!! How do I know, because I now have life more abundantly. I have come to life because of what Christ did.

Does that mean everybody has come into the goodness, no, will they...yes! Hallelujah!

If death wasn't destroyed I wouldn't life, and I'm not talking my body, I mean garden life.

[Moshood]

THE SECOND DEATH = Separation from God and Banishment from His Presence for the Eon(s) in the Eon(s) to Come

( Matthew 25:41 ) Then He will say to those on His Left, "Depart from Me, Ye Cursed, into the Eonian Fire...

Depart From Me, Ye Cursed = Separation from God and Banishment from His Presence ...into the Eonian Fire = The Lake of Fire and Brimstone

( Matthew 25:46 ) And these shall go away into Eonian Punishment...

And these ( The Unrighteous Nations ) shall go ...into Eonian Punishment i.e. The Second Death ( Separation from God for the Eon(s ).

( 2 Thessalonians 1:9 ) Who shall be Punished with Eonian Destruction from the Presence of the Lord...

The Unrighteous are Punished with Eonian Destruction i.e. The Second Death ( Exclusion from the Presence of the Lord for the Eon(s ) because...

( Matthew 7:13 ) Wide is the Gate and Broad is the Path that Leads to Destruction, and Many enter through it.

Many ( The Unrighteous ) Enter into Destruction ( Second Death ) because they Went through the Wide Gate and Took the Broad Path that Lead to it.

Thus...

The Second Death ( Eonian Separation, Punishment & Destruction ) is Not the Portion of those that Overcome ( The Righteous Few ) because...

( Matthew 7:14 ) Strait is the Gate and Narrow is the Path that Leads to Life, and Few there be that Find it...

The Righteous Few weren't Headed for Destruction ( Second Death ) because they Went through the Strait Gate and Took the Narrow Path Leading to Life.

The Second Death also isn't Reserved for those that Overcome ( Abide in Christ ) because...

( Revelation 2:11 ) He who Overcomes shall not be Hurt by the Second Death.

Those that Overcome ( Abide in Christ ) aren't Hurt ( Wounded ) by the Second Death because they don't go through it and therefore can't be Harmed by it.

And because...

( Revelation 20:6 ) Blessed and Holy is He that hath Part in the First Resurrection: On Such the Second Death hath No Power...

The Second Death has No Power over those in the First Resurrection ( Those that Overcome ) because they're Not Subject to it.

The Second Death is Reserved for the Unrighteous who shall have their Portion in it because...

( Revelation 21:8 ) The Fearful and Unbelieving etc. shall have their Part in the Lake which Burns with Fire and Brimstone: which is the Second Death.

The Unrighteous are Hurt ( Wounded ) by the Second Death because they go through it and it has Power over Them for the Eon(s) in the Eon(s) to Come.

But there's Hope for Them because...

( Revelation 22:2 ) The Leaves of the Tree of Life are for the Healing of the Nations.

The Leaves of the Tree of Life are for the Healing of the Nations ( Those Wounded by the Second Death ) i.e. Those Outside the Holy City ( New Jerusalem ).

And so in the End at the Consummation of the Eons...

( 1 Corinthians 15:26:28 ) The Last Enemy that shall be Destroyed is Death... All Subjected... that God may be All in All.

The Second Death ( Last Enemy ) will be Destroyed ( Cease to Exist ) once God is All in All and Everyone is in Subjection to Him.

[eaglesway]

I agree with your eschatology Moshood, but I also see that eternity transcends time, and after we die, we will wake up into it, so I see some "was, is, is to come" applications. That which will be already was, and is, in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, when we awake in the I am.

Are we awake?

Was death was the result of being disobedient (rhetorical)? Or was it the result of eating from the tree of knowledge(actual)? When we eat, so to speak of the tree of knowledge(carnal mind, gnosis centered, ego enthroned and fed), we experience separation(death), from God and one another. The fruitof death? Emnity(separation)

Did Adam die when He ate?
Yes.
How long did he live after He died......hundreds of years. He was dead even as he lived. Was his physical death his second death, or the culmination of the first death? Is the stopping of the functions of the body death? Or is the fruit of the separation, being enmity and lust and self centeredness, actually death? Since Adam died when he ate, I say the separation/enmity is death. Division, dischord, absence of brotherly love- as Cain slew Adam, living in death.

   If the one who has believed in Jesus(entered into koinonea with Christ) has passed from death unto life, then the second death must have no power over that one, if he continues/abides. The fruit of life is harmony, union, multiplication of grace, manifestation of the eternal power and divine nature of God. If the one who has been grafted into the vine(John 15) does not abide, and is withered as a branch and gathered and thrown into the fire, is this the second death? To one who rejects redemption as an unbeliever or as a believer who is whithered for not abiding- is the lake of fire the culmination of a second death that begins even as such a one lives?  (A period of separation until all the adversaries are consumed from the soul,as in 1Cor 3:13-15 resulting in Phil 2:10,11 and Rev 5:13).

If the testimony that convinces the world we are His disciples and that He has loved us is our love for one another, "one even as I(Jesus) and the Father are one"- are we even qualified to call ourselves disciples? Are we eating from the tree of life? Leaves(words) that heal the nations?
Who abides in death but the one who has been cast out of the garden?
How do I get back into life?
Believe in the one God has sent.
How do I know if I abide?
By their fruit shall you know them.
On either side of the river are trees bearing fruit of aionian zoe with leaves for the healing of the nations.
God has given me the tongue of the discipled that I may speak a word in season to him that is weary.
The wisdom that is from above is first pure then peaceable then easily entreated full of mercy and good fruit, and the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by them that make peace.

If Jesus is on the throne(heart) then the river(Spirit of life) flows from under the throne( as brotherly love) and the sea of crystal(peace, union) spreads out before the throne(going before as testimony) and the trees of life (renewed mind and spirit, sons in the garden) are bearing fruit of aionian zoe(multiplication of grace) and nation healing leaves(ministry of reconciliation) beside the river(wherever life goes).

There is a river that makes glad the city of God. (If I forget you O Jerusalem.... the Bride is coming down out of the heavens)

But as for Me I have enthroned My King upon Mt. Zion, upon My holy mountain

[Moshood]

I'd say the Branches that don't Abide become Withered ( Perish ) and are then Gathered Up ( Resurrected from the Dead )
and Thrown into the Fire ( Lake of Fire ) and Experience a Period of Separation From God ( Second Death )
because they're Disconnected from the Vine ( Christ ) until they're Ultimately Restored ( Healed ).

[Tony N]

The 2nd death . . . is death really destroyed?
Not currently. The 2nd death has not even come yet so how can be be destroyed?
The 1st death is still in operation.
The 2nd death only takes place after all who are not written in the book of life are resurrected to be judged before the great white throne. That has not happened yet.


The only time the 2nd death will be destroyed is when Christ quits reigning (1 Cor.15:25) and all sovereignty, authority and powere are done away (1 Cor.15:24) then according to Paul's vision of 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26).

[Molly]

12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

--1 Cor 15

[eaglesway]

Death and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire after the Great White Throne. They are the last adversaries to be "subjected"(1 Cor 15).
This is because there are then, no longer, any souls held by them. They are no longer needed. They have been emptied because death has been swallowed by immortality. Death, then, will have no more sting-because no one will be held of it, all will be in life, in God, as one. Death and the grave, as with all prisons, are destroyed when there is no more need for them, because God has abolished all rule power and authority and has become all in all.

[Molly]

 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

--1 Cor 15



Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

[eaglesway]

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

--1 Cor 15

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(1Jn 3:2)