Rev ch 14? - "two harvests" - no hell, no forever hell
(I used to think chapter 12 and 13 are inserts, then I realized 12 and 13 are an insert, with 13 telling the how of 12:17, last verse of the chapter. Now I'm realizing chapters 12, 13 and 14 are an insert. "Whoever has an ear let them hear" these days seems to me to be saying, we have to listen to what God is saying behind the flowery images and language, or intertwined with..)
The two harvests, are these the sheep and goats? The wheat and tares? Here's why I'm wondering--
Just before His return, we can see in chapter 14, a separating, in verse 7, an angel says with a loud voice "Fear God and give glory to Him. A simple announcement? But here it is with the harvest verses.
Then in verse 9, an angel says "if anyone worships the beast and his image.." and goes on to describe what will happen to them - they will drink the wine of God's full wrath, tormented in fire (in the presence of God and His angels).
"The smoke (of their torment) which will rise up age to age" - a poetic way of saying it will never be forgotten?
What else could it be? - Jude wrote our example of eternal fire is Sodom and Gomorrah. Is there flame there now? And something I never thought of before, their fire and brimstone was an earthly event.
Verse 15, one upon a cloud reaps a harvest..
A second angel, verse 18, an angel who has power over fire comes out of the altar and cries out loudly to one with a sharp sickle. And the grapes of wrath (18,19) are cast into the wine press of God's wrath.
Chapter 15, opens with seven angels with the "seven last plagues" ..."in them the wrath of God is complete".
I'm thinking the winepress happens upon Earth and in it, the wrath of God is complete(d) ?
Interesting thoughts Marie. I find it intriguing that smoke is the evidence of something earthly being turned into something heavenly, in a matter of speaking - like a log, bound to the earth, becoming smoke that can waft up into the heavens. Fire does not cause things to cease to exist, but rather to change their form.
Quote from: Shev on August 18, 2016, 02:11:36 AM
Interesting thoughts Marie. I find it intriguing that smoke is the evidence of something earthly being turned into something heavenly, in a matter of speaking - like a log, bound to the earth, becoming smoke that can waft up into the heavens. Fire does not cause things to cease to exist, but rather to change their form.
"Fire does not cause things to cease to exist, but rather to change their form." :thumbsup:
Quote from: Shev on August 18, 2016, 02:11:36 AM
Interesting thoughts Marie. I find it intriguing that smoke is the evidence of something earthly being turned into something heavenly, in a matter of speaking - like a log, bound to the earth, becoming smoke that can waft up into the heavens. Fire does not cause things to cease to exist, but rather to change their form.
I like it ! :thumbsup:
I believe the grapes of Gods wrath are the blood of the saints , holy ones killed by the WORD and testimony the held . as God said ,''Vengeance is mine and I shall repay ''. Rev 6
9and when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood."...
She will drink that blood , doubled cup of the abominations of the earth.. spiritually speaking of both being the old testament law and new testament law Judgements in my opinion.
Here are the related scriptures to the Judgment of God pouring out the bowels of wrath and finishing His wrath upon her and the earth .
5For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6Give back to her as she has done to others; pay her back double for what she has done; mix her a double portion in her own cup. 7To the degree that she has glorified herself and lived in luxury, inflict on her that much torment and misery. In her heart she says, 'I sit as queen; I am not a widow and will never see mourning.'...
Berean Study Bible ·
Psalm 28:4
Requite them according to their work and according to the evil of their practices; Requite them according to the deeds of their hands; Repay them their recompense.
Psalm 137:8
O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us.
Isaiah 40:2
"Speak kindly to Jerusalem; And call out to her, that her warfare has ended, That her iniquity has been removed, That she has received of the LORD'S hand Double for all her sins."
Jeremiah 16:18
"I will first doubly repay their iniquity and their sin, because they have polluted My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable idols and with their abominations."
Jeremiah 50:15
"Raise your battle cry against her on every side! She has given herself up, her pillars have fallen, Her walls have been torn down. For this is the vengeance of the LORD: Take vengeance on her; As she has done to others, so do to her.
Jeremiah 50:29
"Summon many against Babylon, All those who bend the bow: Encamp against her on every side, Let there be no escape. Repay her according to her work; According to all that she has done, so do to her; For she has become arrogant against the LORD, Against the Holy One of Israel.
Revelation 14:10
he too will drink the wine of God's anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
Revelation 17:4
And the woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls. She held in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality.
Revelation 18:20
"Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets; because it is for you that God has pronounced His judgment against her."
The Three Angels and Babylon's Fall
...9And a third angel followed them, calling in loud a voice, "If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or hand, 10he too will drink the wine of God's anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."...
NO REST is a huge sign of no peace is within them ... the only peace Jesus can give .....
Genesis 19:24
Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven, God rains on the just and the unjust Matt 5 Love Your Enemies
...44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same?...
to me this is the TWO EDGED- WORD that DIVIDES us ,,judges us as just or unjust still , the same sun sending light on the just , is the same scorching heat on the unjust , and rain on the just Jeremiah 5:24
'They do not say in their heart, "Let us now fear the LORD our God, Who gives rain in its season, Both the autumn rain and the spring rain, Who keeps for us The appointed weeks of the harvest." and the rain of HOLY SPIRIT & fire WHICH IS THE LORD GODS PRESENCE AND HIS ANGELS
Job 21:20
"Let his own eyes see his decay, And let him drink of the wrath of the Almighty.
Psalm 75:8
For a cup is in the hand of the LORD, and the wine foams; It is well mixed, and He pours out of this; Surely all the wicked of the earth must drain and drink down its dregs.
Isaiah 51:17
Rouse yourself! Rouse yourself! Arise, O Jerusalem, You who have drunk from the LORD'S hand the cup of His anger; The chalice of reeling you have drained to the dregs.
Jeremiah 25:15
For thus the LORD, the God of Israel, says to me, "Take this cup of the wine of wrath from My hand and cause all the nations to whom I send you to drink it.
Jeremiah 25:27
"You shall say to them, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, "Drink, be drunk, vomit, fall and rise no more because of the sword which I will send among you."'
Ezekiel 38:22
"With pestilence and with blood I will enter into judgment with him; and I will rain on him and on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, a torrential rain, with hailstones, fire and brimstone.
Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."
Acts 10:22
"Cornelius the centurion has sent us," they said. "He is a righteous and God-fearing man with a good reputation among the whole Jewish nation. A holy angel instructed him to request your presence in his home, so that he could hear a message from you."
2 Thessalonians 1:7
and to grant relief to you who are oppressed, and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels!!
The smoke of their torment is a sign of judgment Rev 18 9Then the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her will weep and wail at the sight of the smoke rising from the fire that consumes her.
10In fear of her torment, they will stand at a distance and cry out: "Woe, woe to the great city, the mighty city of Babylon! For in a single hour your judgment has come." 11And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, because there is no one left to buy their cargo—...
In my opinion , we are seeing a lot more exposure and a shining wake in the nakedness of the religious spirits that are using God in name only in whordoms of the earth as the King of pride rules over them Job 41
...33"Nothing on earth is like him[BEAST OF THE EARTH ], One made without fear. 34"He looks on everything that is high; He is king over all the sons of pride."
Pride is the downfall and all shall be humbled and made ashamed , to my understanding . Because the fear of the Lord IS the beginning of true Wisdom from above ,,,