God's Pleasure

[marie glen]

Thank you Whatistruth, for sharing.. my thoughts are "is anything too hard for God?" ..."with God all things are possible" and of course, "God is love"

Now before I lose you and the negative voices pipe in - cause I'm thinking this is what happens.. the negative thoughts rise up.. come and argue.. you can, if you truly believe in Jesus as the Son of God and God's representative and ambassador.. you can order any negative thought, idea and voice away in the name of Jesus, any time they show up.. peacefully assertive with faith..

When I would think a negative thought, I would mentally place 3 large X's over the thought and replace it with "thank you Jesus" or "praise you Lord" or "I love you Lord"... If I couldn't do that I simply prayed.. right during the fray "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus..." - it aLways works.

Why read Deuteronomy? Or any of the Old Testament if it causes troublous thoughts and feelings? It's the feelings, that capture us. You can live a perfectly good Christian (believer/follower's) life without the Old Testament.

I also often employ, "ignore it and it will go away" :laughing7: yes, that sometimes works also. The negatives come.. Bah!.. they're not real.. (I tried that with my bills though and that didn't work as well.. no I'm kidding!!)

God loves you! He really does.. We get all tied up in knots and he tries to unravel it all, but we fight and struggle and won't let him.. I used to hear the saying a lot - "Let go and let God".. There's a lot to be said for that! (Our struggling hinders His hands. Like we're all tied up with ropes, but our struggling keeps Him from being able to undo the knots! "Let go".. rest in Him.. just rest.. "let God" - ultimately, we will one day be on His shores, as the saying goes.. oh yes, we will ALL arrive there safely. Meanwhile thank and praise the Lord, for "The Lord is righteous, He has cut asunder the cords of the wicked." I think its good to put yourself in His hands.)

Jesus is "the exAct representation of God's character and being" - So read about Jesus.. And remember! He did not raise His voice, it says.. and His criticisms were for religious leaders who somewhat abused others and kept other folks from knowing God.. intentionally! - or so I think anyway.. It was their power and cushy seats which mattered to them, not being God's servants to bless others.

Oh yes satan's representatives try to yell scripture at us.. "resist the devil and he will flee from you."

God can do anything.. give it all to him.. every day, over and over if need be.. YOU may not be able.. none of us are!! but He ab-so-lute-ly is.
:girlheart: :dsunny:

[marie glen]

PS - I think it's good to remember when reading the New Testament letters (epistles) ..to remember the context.. Paul, and others were writing letters to particular churches.. and in a day when false Christianity was asserting itself in the faith! And part of some of these (gnostic/pagan) groups included falling back into those very errors Jesus died to save us from! And which curses He suffered for us! (And others were imposing rules, whereas Jesus said I give a new commandment, love".)

Context.. we're kind of taught it's all about us, but it's not.. Even tho we are "the big doorprize" (in the words of John Prine songwriter, singer)
:Peace2:

[marie glen]

"I will not rest until I find a place for my God" ...in our heart, life, days.. (Ps.)

You know what? Those "12 step" books are kind of nice.. very mellow. If you ever come across one in a thrift store.. tho they're getting scarce.

I think each one of us, Whatistruth, has to learn to discern the voice of the Lord from that other gravelly(?) accusing, threatening, etc voice.

The Lord's voice, I think, we hear best in the quietness (and peace).

"..rest in the Lord oh my soul.."

God bless! have a good day! :smile:

[whatistruth]

Dear Marie, thank you so much for writing. As you say, I will write you a PM.

For now, I just say that,  I don't want to read psalms. I realized that,  bad things is much more.

Please continue to pray. Everyone.

[marie glen]

G'day.. sorry I forgot I was going to look up the verses you quoted.. this turned out sort of long, so I've divided it by lines.. and of course you needn't read it all at once :gsmile:

İt is my struggle against non-universal verses.

But! judgment like we read.. destruction, ruin.. is earthly.. happens during THIS life.. Not in an immortal afterlife of punishment lasting for ever and ever... (therefore, it is corrective, as "all in heaven and earth are being gathered into Jesus" Col 1:20 & Eph 1:10)

Verses in context:

Proverbs 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you.
Context:
10 My son, if sinners entice you,
Do not consent.
11 If they say, "Come with us,
Let us lie in wait to shed blood;
Let us lurk secretly for the innocent without cause;
12 Let us swallow them alive like Sheol,[the grave]
And whole, like those who go down to the Pit [the grave];
13 We shall find all kinds of precious possessions,
We shall fill our houses with spoil;
14 Cast in your lot among us,
Let us all have one purse"—
15 My son, do not walk in the way with them,
Keep your foot from their path;
16 For their feet run to evil,
And they make haste to shed blood...
24 ...I have called and you refused..
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when what you dread comes,
27 When your terror comes like a storm,
And your own destruction comes like a whirlwind...

Summary - those frauding, and robbing others, oppressing and spilling blood of others, will reap what they sow.. Should it be different? Murder of people makes me indignant and I'm not Creator, ruler, sustainer..

------------------------------------------------

Psalms 2:4 He who sits in the heavens laughs, The Lord scoffs at them.
 Context:
   The kings of the earth set themselves,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against the Lord and against His Anointed..
...4 He who sits in the heavens shall laugh;
The Lord shall hold them in derision.
Summary - making war with God Almighty is laughable..

-------------------------------

And,  I do not see the correction when I read these parts. (deuteronomy 28 -  Actually, There are many parts )
I see a cruel revenge. Or Justice.
Almost, The punishment is the same as the crime. Or It is more horrible.

Deut 28:63 Just as the LORD has found great pleasure in causing you to prosper and multiply, the LORD will find pleasure in destroying you. You will be torn from the land you are about to enter and occupy.
( A second question about it, - At the beginning of these verses rape is mentioned. Adults and children punishment. So, Does god enjoy a child's rape (or a adult rape) ?
I hope you can help me solve these verses. Thank you.

Context:
1.  "Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the Lord your God will set you high above all nations of the earth. 2 And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, because you obey the voice of the Lord your God..
7 "The Lord will cause your enemies who rise against you to be defeated before your face; they shall come out against you one way and flee before you seven ways.
8 "The Lord will command the blessing on you in your storehouses and in all to which you set your hand
[Verses 3-6 "Blessed shall be.."]
15 "But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the Lord your God..
[16-19 - "Cursed shall you be.."]
RESULTS OF WAYWARDNESS / LAW OF SIN AND DEATH / NATURAL LAW -- nations which, for instance are / were into voodoo, the results are not blessings - 30 "You shall betroth a wife, but another man shall lie with her; you shall build a house, but you shall not dwell in it; you shall plant a vineyard, but shall not gather its grapes. 31 Your ox shall be slaughtered before your eyes, but you shall not eat of it; your donkey shall be violently taken away from before you, and shall not be restored to you; your sheep shall be given to your enemies, and you shall have no one to rescue them. 32 Your sons and your daughters shall be given to another people, and your eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all day long; and there shall be no strength in your hand. 33 A nation whom you have not known shall eat the fruit of your land and the produce of your labor, and you shall be only oppressed and crushed continually."
53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. [PROPHECY of what will happen/happens]

All such is earthly / upon Earth and as a culmination of this life.. like Obadiah 16 says, "your own doings will return upon your own head"

------------------------------------

Job 9:23 When a sudden disaster brings death, he makes fun of the despair of innocent people.
Context: (Job is speaking.. being bitter.)
verse 2 - "..how can a man be in the right before God?"
9. He made the Bear, Orion, and the Pleiades,
And the chambers of the south;
10 He does great things past finding out,
Yes, wonders without number.
11 If He goes by me, I do not see Him;
If He moves past, I do not perceive Him;
12 ...Who can say to Him, 'What are You doing?'
Job says "16 If I called and He answered me,
I would not believe that He was listening to my voice.
For He crushes me with a tempest,
And multiplies my wounds without cause.
18 He will not allow me to catch my breath,
But fills me with bitterness." - this Job ruminates -
but 9 So Satan answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 12 And the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person."

Elsewhere the bible says "should we receive only good from the LORD and not evil?" (Without His intervention life would become total evil.)

Job says - 21 "..I despise my life.
22 It is all one thing;
Therefore I say, 'He destroys the blameless and the wicked.'
23 If the scourge slays suddenly,
He laughs at the plight of the innocent.

Summary - Job is being bitter, spouting words..
-----------------------------------------------------------

"When God judges the wicked, it is for the purpose of correcting them"   Who is them?

..the wicked ...not everyone is YET sons (the Greek is male and female)

Romans 2:5 - "But because you are stubborn and refuse to turn from your sin, you are storing up terrible punishment (results?) for yourself. For a day of anger is coming, when God's righteous judgment will be revealed."

Context:
3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds"

- sounds fair to me..

But! Christ took our 'punishment' (results) upon Himself.. "According to your faith, so be it."

2 Chronicles 21:16 - Moreover the Lord stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines and the Arabians who were near the Ethiopians.

In Context:
4 Now when Jehoram was established over the kingdom of his father, he strengthened himself and killed all his brothers with the sword, and also others of the princes of Israel. ..and he did evil in the sight of the Lord.

----------------------------------------

Revelation 6:10
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
Context: - the blood of martyrs, like the blood of Abel, cries out to God.. sounds logical to me..

Luke 18:7
7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? Hebrews 11 says people of God have been murdered and tortured.. We're taught, these days, to have pity for the criminals and torturers. God, it seems, doesn't see it that way..

People are happy that god has provided justice. Not for them to correction.

If all are saved - "God is the savior of all" 1 Timothy 4:10 - then ultimately it all is teaching and correcting.. and experience is said to be the BEST teacher..

Jeremiah 9:24 - But let him who glories glory in this,
That he understands and knows Me,
That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.
For in these I delight," says the Lord. - Otherwise anarchy? and utter lawlessness and oppressions, etc..

"In the beginning... behold, it was all good.." so why is life as it is? :Chinscratch: :Peace2: :girlheart:

[marie glen]

P.S. - how can there be life with never any suffering? i.e. and avoid life as we presently know it? But here's the rub, the dilemma.. and still create rational (able to think and reason) creatures? How?

How can an un-breakable paradise be created? Inhabited by living, able to think and reason creatures..

An exercise? How would you do it? ( :laughing7: :Peace2: )

[whatistruth]

Thank you for your explanation. I must say first that,

I am already read the context. I just don't write all here.  I had investigated the verses I asked. I asking here, when I can't find a solution.

For this reason, I have the answers you wrote. I guess, I'm asking a little different.

For example,

" 2 Chronicles 21:16 - Moreover the Lord stirred up against Jehoram the spirit of the Philistines and the Arabians who were near the Ethiopians.
In Context:
4 Now when Jehoram was established over the kingdom of his father, he strengthened himself and killed all his brothers with the sword, and also others of the princes of Israel. ..and he did evil in the sight of the Lord. "

Yes. I know. Cause they are doing evil. What I'm wondering that is,

- Does god triggers the evil within man?  And, God sends israelites other nations and punishes them.
He tells they how much evil is going to be among other nations.  Maybe the persons is bad. But, God add sin to other nations' sins to punish israel. !?
God punish David. For this, he uses his sons. A lot of people are sinning and suffering during punishment.  Maybe, They had other sins but it would not be added other. -

I cant know,does a person is really treat me badly or Is god provoking him?

Other thing,

"RESULTS OF WAYWARDNESS / LAW OF SIN AND DEATH / NATURAL LAW"

I see. You are right. But, what I'm wondering that is,

Why are others punished for my guilt? And, Why an unborn child is being punished?

I can write many verses about it. But, I guess, these verses are already enough.

Other thing,

Romans 9:22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?

As always is said, if every crime requires punishment, why is it patience?
(Exodus 34:7 and your 3nd Context ) Of course, there are many verses.

For other answers and more, I will write later. thank you for your interested.

[marie glen]

I think people do their own evil, etc.

I think the whole problem is, or that is, began, when God created beings that could think. He knew this of course. And built in also the solution. Why did He wait and create man and woman after Lucifer's rebellion?

I'm thinking so all would take this unavoidable journey and lesson, altogether at once. Otherwise each person and angels would wander away from God in their own time taking virtually forever to run itself out. Unavoidable if we are to be thinking able to reason beings.

Surely thinking ability includes being able to make choices.. so.. life exactly as it is.

If you were God, how would you make a forever unbreakable paradise? Is it paradise if his children are simply fully programmed to agree with God in every teeny tiny way..? With no thinking about any of it?
:Peace2: "God is light. And in Him is no darkness at all." 1 John 5?

[marie glen]

P.S. - All I can tell you, is what works for me. This is what I think and what I apply to myself.

If God is life.. the life force, all of it, then he is weaved throughout all of life. When anyone does something not good, it is natural that life respond.

God cannot turn himself off.. (Though now He has in Jesus.) He warns and warns and warns. How amazing that we're all going to come out of this intact, because imperfection is a downward spiral. And the downward spiral cannot reverse its course.

Satan, I know, is the spirit of judging God, and he broadcasts this all over, along with many other untruths.

"Work out my reconciliation with God with reverence and awe."

God is Love and Life, and also Perfection. Any idea that doesn't align with that, cannot be true, but is a lie, so I don't heed or listen to it. (Life is difficult enough already! :thumbsup: )

...for me, information is key.. Truth sets free, gives joy. And peace.. :Pray:

[whatistruth]

I think people do their own evil, etc.

I can not be sure of that. I wrote some reasons and verses. I will add one,

2.Samuel 16:10-11 But the king said, "What does this have to do with you, you sons of Zeruiah? If he is cursing because the LORD said to him, 'Curse David,' who can ask, 'Why do you do this?'David then said to Abishai and all his officials, "My son, my own flesh and blood, is trying to kill me. How much more, then, this Benjamite! Leave him alone; let him curse, for the LORD has told him to.

There can be a lot of meaning in this verse. Apart from what is already open meaning (except someone curse him), Absalom's will to kill him, is seen as the guidance of God.

There are many verses similar to this. Strictly, It is not possible to think that God will not seduce.

God is Love and Life, and also Perfection. Any idea that doesn't align with that, cannot be true, but is a lie, so I don't heed or listen to it. (Life is difficult enough already! :thumbsup: )

It is not the same as what he said with what God has done.

Maybe this is the difference between us. You choose not to hear, thus you are comfortable. I see too much reality and verses, thus I am thinking that way.  God forgive me.

Thank you.

[CHB]

Hi whatistruth

I believe God deals with man directly and indirectly. Sometimes he uses others to carry out his plan.  This is just one example. God uses Satan also.

We can think reason and plan all we want but as I see it, this is the way it is.  (Prov. 16:1) The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord.  (Prov. 16:9) A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

CHB

[whatistruth]

Hi CHB. Thank you so much. 

I should say all this based,  Everything looks like a puppet of God.

If he hadn't given punish his provoked people, I would have understand him acting so that. But no.

Firstly, God harden their hearts. And then, he punishes them for not hearing the warning.
He knows that we will commit sin nevertheless he's testing.
He reveals the evil within the human. Sometimes, He provokes them.
Sometimes looks like he forces for evil.  He drags to sin cause punish others or discipline others.
And most bad thing, He makes that's himself, he punishes people.

Why does god causing evil instead of revealing the good in people?
( You can also look at the examples in other my messages. )

God tells us not to provoke people but he does it himself. God does not do, a lot of things he tells us.  I can write verses if you want.

Other thing,

God gave to peoples deep sleep  in order for David to pass safely through the road.

Why doesn't he using the power to infringe free will for blocking a rape instead of these ?

And,  For this reason, İt had been at the top of universalist logic,

"God told us to love the enemies. Then he will love and save his enemies. "

That is why I have difficulty believing that God will save everyone. He tells us, he doesn't do himself.

I guess, I'm right to think all of that. Because, "It is not the same as what he said with what God has done."
(  If I'm still a hopeful universalist, this is because of you (all) )

Maybe he is doing what he told us. We misunderstood his. Maybe, Really is not totally good. Maybe Its standards of goodness are different.

Last things,

I realized there were so many people like me. 

Some of them rejected the Old Testament because they have very bad things.
Some of them tried to relieve himself by finding explanations that were not there.
Some of them chose to ignore it. Some of them completely rejected to the god.

I don't know what will happen to me but It 's so hard to love such a bad god.

[CHB]

Just think whatistruth, there will come a time when all of this will be no more  and you will understand what good and evil is all about. Paul said "I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us" Rom. 8:18. What do we have here, 70 maybe 80 years in the flesh, what will be hereafter? No end.  :banana:

My advice is, ask God to show you his plan for mankind. If you truly want to know he will show you. Jesus said to ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and ye shall find.

CHB

[whatistruth]

Thank you CHB.

All this makes sense if universalism is true. Even so, 80 years is a very long time for someone who is really suffering.
(And, The pain will continue beyond the grave.)

Even then, the personality of the god may disturb the people. If we can not trust God, it may not be possible to be happy with it in eternal heaven.

You think,  there is a bad image of God in your mind. He has been unjust in this world. He did evil, etc...  Wouldn't you be uncomfortable, even after you've been died?

Except that,

What if a man hates God in his soul? Because of the reason they bad live, or because of another reason ?!



And, Sometimes I do not understand, Wouldn't it be a world without pain? Why do we have to experience it?  What happens to infant and handicapped ?

Will not it be perfection already in heaven?   "It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye "


Romans 8:18...   :sigh:

I had found consolation with this verse once upon a time. But as long as I live and my thoughts get heavy, I didn't see this verse. Also, I began to think that this verse does not apply to everyone.
And,  As I said in my previous message, I have a god image that prevents me from becoming a universalist.

Some people say, " If God is not universalist, If god is not this, that, it..."   I guess, everyone has a bargain.

Some people say,
" If God is not universalist, I don't even want his take me to paradise "   Rebellion is bad for god. Maybe it's good intentions. Maybe this is something stupid in god eye.  I don't know what to say.  But,

They give up from heaven just because he didn't save people they never knew... 

( If this is a bad thing in the god eyes, forgive me )  But...

This is amazing !  This is love with no thought of personal gain!   I saw it only in universalist persons. So they expect the god to be such.

I just share my thoughts. 

I hope, "According to your faith, so be it "

[CHB]

When I said "what will be hereafter? No end". I meant no end of immorality, no more pain, suffering, sorrow.  I don't know exactly what it will be like but I do know it will all be good.

CHB

[whatistruth]

I know.

I usually say what verses tell whereas I must say a part of my own thought,

There are many situation and people waiting to be compensate. Maybe they worship other gods maybe they are sinning and maybe they are suffering ...
it doesn't matter.  Everybody's,  should be compensated for even one drop of tears. ( Even if they are crying for something unnecessary ) We are in this world because of him.

If God doesn't think like that, let forgive me. But...  I can't settle for less than that, anymore.

No end.  :banana:

İt is so cute  :friendstu:  Never lose your joy!


Thank you for everything  :girlheart:

[marie glen]

I wasthinking two things.. not every thing every bible character says, when it is quoted as them saying it - like David saying the LORD told his son to do so.. David said that. David was human.

And I was thinking, whatistruth, you may want to be sure of sticking with bibles like the Good News Bible.. or at the very least a New International Version.

I'm thinking people are not puppets, if they were, there would be nothing negative anywhere because "God is light and in Him is no darkness at all"

God can only be perfect, or He too would fade. Your same thoughts will not let go of you, this judging of God.. that's okay.. ultimately aLL will bend the knee.. Even if all are not able to love God now.. they certainly will later, when His glorious wonderfulness will come to fill all people and angels.. and animals.. and fill all things.. (no more the opposite of dog eat dog/self-ish-ness/bottomless pit of potential darkness and wrongness).

But!! We all need be warned!! He is purity and im-purity in His presence cannot be.. cannot live. Period. It's impossible. Now if He tells this to man in all levels of speaking.. From to the most depraved and barbaric ones, to the ones fully in love with Him (which none of us are as of yet!).. Well.. I would suppose that to be necessary, if he wants to be heard by all (eventually).

So if he IS life.. And also Perfection.. which HE is - "be ye perfect as your father in heaven is Perfect" - then you see the problem, yes? (If He is both Life, aNd Perfection.)

:Pray: Keeping you in my prayers dear one.. dearly beloved of the LORD.

The teaching that God directly made Satan&co to be evil and to do evil, and that God does, and or inspires, all acts of evil, cannot be true. Look at its fruit! Would we not all be baskets of pieces to believe such a thing? I'm sure I would be.

BUT! To endow thinking ability to angel and man...

What then? What is/was bound to happen?? Sooner or later. Therefor (surely?) He engineered things to happen just as they have in order to bring about... A. the worst creation possible;  ...B. the best creation possible..  or perhaps C; anarchy.. utter anarchy, with all things fading for they are im-Perfect, the opposite of Life, which IS God. (imho)

And you know what? Even should He slaughter us all in one moment of he can't take it any more - he's going to raise all to wondrous life wherein this life will come to seem like a mere moment. But which obviously He hasn't, but is still putting up with this horrible man's world we have made (til it self implodes)..  :doh: How does He do it!? (Especially BEING life.. oiye.. no relief for Him, He gets to LIVE through it ALL. YO!!(!?!) Why(?) would he put Himself through allll that...? :sigh:
    :girlheart:

P.S - it's blessed to be alive.. to exist.. and it is also blessed to cry big hot tears of sorrow.. not just for ourself but for this world and for all things wrong.. (and blessed that we do weep.. for if there were no tears. no wrong.. there would be no us.. but we would only be nonthinking entities.. or at the best infant like.. forever. (Yuck, no wonder HE is not settling for that. :laughing7: ) ..and I meant all wrong things, done by man or angel, for He does NO wrong. Ever.

[whatistruth]

Thank you for everything dear marie   :girlheart:

I am just thinking...

Those who wrote it are always human.
If we do not believe this verses,  How will we believe other verses?

Again david says,

"All nations will worship the lord"

though, sometimes I do not understand what david said. He say other verse,

" lord destroy them "  "This is a lasting love for us but not for another ..."    anyway...

I still think that way.

I can show you a lot of verses about how does god made us puppets... But,

CHB wrote,  Provebs 16:1 - 16:9

These two verses already tell everything.

Maybe, he make me say these.

Which means that my bad words and behaviors can be his work.
For this reason I can not trust God.

When I trust him, he show me bad verses. It looks like he's playing with me.

It is bad enough to know that it is always from God when people (and me) behave badly.
Or,  think constantly about who made it... ?!    Thinking like that is a lot of torture.  I don't know what to do.

I give up!  :sigh:

[marie glen]

Giving up just may be key.. give up and only let God is what they say.. "let go and let God"

I will continue to keep you in my prayers :HeartThrob: :girlheart:

[whatistruth]

Already,There are a lot of creature that want me to be bad. (included human )

Already he created a lot of creatures for this job.

On top of that, Why is he doing this job himself?

OMG!  There is nobody who can trust just want my goodness! in the huge universe !

Last Thing,

People sometimes say, "He did not create bad creatures"

He, who manages what people say, he will not manage that?

The god who set up perfect plans to punish man when necessary, Can not it prevent a rape,  rebellion,  War,  sadness, bad behaviour, people hate him..  etc ?

For this reason, I can not agree with this argument.

Thanks to everyone who helped me until this time. Please forgive me for my mistakes.

[marie glen]

Did God split the atom?

I would say no.

You would (I believe :laughing7: ) say ..but he made man capable of doing it and so He is indeed the one who did it.

And I would say, that is why there is Universal Reconciliation.

(...yet I believe God engineered the fall and evil.. it being inevitable.. taking control of it, doing all things as he has in order to bring about the best..)
:Peace2:

[whatistruth]

I'm not saying just for the things that he allows. I'm talking about his do evil.

Also, this is not related to universalism. It is entirely related to the personality of God.

If god has a bad personality, can we be happy in heaven with it ..?  I'm not sure.

People sometimes do not like him because of his personality. (or things his did... )  In this world, a person who moves away from him is more sinful.  He allows them.  Then he will punish them.  I'm getting away from him because of him.

Moreover, because of the verses I am not yet a universalist.

Dear my sister Marie  :HeartThrob:

I hopefully, always god is with you. I wish,  I could be as fine as you. I cant standing, against these verses and this evil world.

I apologize from god and all of you for my mistakes.

I don't want to squeeze anyone anymore. Thanks for eveything to everyone!

Thank you very much for enduring me.

[darryl]

Thanks for  answer and advices. I will.

In fact, I sometimes get confused cause what I read so much.

For example, You said,  "When God judges the wicked, it is for the purpose of correcting them"   Who is them?

Hebrews 12:6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,  and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son

Proverbs 1:16 For whom the Lord loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights

Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent

2.samuel 7:14-15 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands.  But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you.

and many verses.

God is making a distinction in this verses. Loves and son ones.  If everyone had his son, (or everyone had his loves) he would not make these distinctions.  Everyone is punished. But not everyone is a son and everyone is not punished for correction.

And, There is only this verse in relation to the god's love of all. John 3:16
And this verse has many opposition. There are too many appeals. And It is not as clear as the verses that say that everybody is not a son and object of love.

And,  I do not see the correction when I read these parts. (deuteronomy 28 -  Actually, There are many parts )
I see a cruel revenge. Or Justice.
Almost, The punishment is the same as the crime. Or It is more horrible.

Sometimes I believe that God loves everybody and disciplines everybody to correction.  I'm so happy.
Then I read the bible, and I see that it is not real. My head is confused.

I hope you can help me solve these verses. Thank you.

great questions !...the Bible is a big book and not 100% easy to understand....as Eaglesway said, it's best to ponder the 'merciful' verses and keep them in mind when reading the 'harsh' and 'hard' verses...and, above all, come to know, in a deeper and deeper way, the sweetness of Jesus love.

[darryl]

!

Thank you very much for enduring me.

we are not 'enduring' you...you are a treasure !..and you raise some valid points and pertinent questions !...keep searching and praying...you'll find the answer. :gimmefive:

[whatistruth]

Thank you so much dear darrly.  :dsunny:

Yes.  You're right. Big book and great questions and as a result of these, a life that has turned into a nightmare.

I reading and writing on a language I don't know almost every day. My eyes became like 'Furby'.  My brothers and sisters who tried to help me became almost FBI agents to correctly understand what I wrote.   :laughing7:
If these aren't search to god then what are these I can't know.

Thank you for the nice words.You made me feel good.

Because of my illness and my thoughts if I think that this feeling is rare, You should get a prize for you have me feel good. Just like other my sisters and my brothers..

Thank you for writing. Do not forget to pray for me. God bless you.  :HeartThrob: