Fire for baptizing and for burning chaff

[marie glen]

Great posts! ..not the easiest to understand verses.. But I think I understand them quite a bit better now!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

     The baptism of water takes place with the mind whereas the baptism of fire takes place with the heart

I see UR everywhere.   :girlheart:

[sheila]

more fire!  :laugh:  Mt ch 5   ye have heard it said.........but I say............just examples of him burning away chaff......dividing intentions/motives of hearts.

[marie glen]

Amen! The GOOD shepherd.. so good at what He does! :thumbsup:

[Cocoon]

There appears Christ too is a worm?  This worm in particular is also translated scarlet.  It is an insect that burrows into a piece of wood, lays eggs and then dies upon the eggs.  The blood of the insect(worm) is red and stains the eggs and wood.  It is used as a dye for fabric so in Exodus and Leviticus, often where you see scarlet is actually the same word that is translated worm, towla. 

So in Psalm 22, Christ calls himself a worm, towla.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

And here, it appears Job prophetically calls himself a worm but also the son of man too (Christ?).

How much less man -- a grub, And the son of man -- a worm!  Job 25:6

Interestingly, there are two words for worm (rimmah and towla) in the Job verse ans so YLT offers two different bug names.  Most translations offer worm for both Hebrew words so that in the English you lose the mystery.  In fact this mystery of the two worm shows again in Isaiah 14:11

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

Many understand this verse to be about Satan.  Of course, though there is something more to this verse if you see that again two different Hebrew words are here for worm and as always we lose the mystery in the English. 

Interestingly, in the Hebrew they too had mysteries and confusion for there is a rabbinic story where Joab goes out and kills all the male amalakites in city and David tells him it zechar not zachar, that is to say blot out the rememberance of the Amalakites not blot out the males of the Amalakites.   And Joab responds, "my teacher told me zechar."  (note: the general ideas are true but I do not know if I spelled the hebrew words correctly or if it was Joab or Amassa).  Interesting, eh?   A good teacher makes all the difference. :)

I enjoy the revelations on the worm from everyone and I am in agreement, but I believe there are is more there to be found. 

[rosered]

 
Awesome  everyone ,

  Great  thanks for the refreshing  Cocoon.     on the two types  of worms ,  lest I forget ,,,

                :thumbsup:   Amen , Christ is our everything   :icon_flower:  [Colossians  1 ]   for  some  heavy proof   :HeartThrob:

Interestingly, there are two words for worm (rimmah and towla) in the Job verse ans so YLT offers two different bug names.  Most translations offer worm for both Hebrew words so that in the English you lose the mystery.  In fact this mystery of the two worm shows again in Isaiah 14:11

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

Many understand this verse to be about Satan.  Of course, though there is something more to this verse if you see that again two different Hebrew words are here for worm and as always we lose the mystery in the English. 

  Finding this really  helpful and the thoughts of   a Babylonian king  Isaiah 14  , when we see the image in our mind , we can see pride was his   sin and the wages of sin is death   , and see this as a continual warning for any of us shining ones  [pride comes before a fall ] . so many  as the stars of Abraham and as the sand of the sea shore [  cast  up from the dead sea ]  a tiny  fragment of  the   SOLID ROCK   being scattered as separated as to be trampled  upon .. being  that worldly wisdom .[all things are yours life and death are yours , and you are Christ and Christ is Gods ]1 Corinthians 3:  18-23
Jesus Christ is the power and Wisdom of God  over all  and ever more

  As for the worm  that dies not , it is us  whom feed off the blood of Jesus ,   Giving His Life for us ,
  carry about  His body of death , Paul said it  here I believe ...

   2 Corn 4 Treasures in Jars of Clay
...9persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed.

10We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body.


11For we who are alive are always consigned to death for Jesus' sake,

so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our mortal bodies....   Life is in the blood and Jesus  life giving blood cleanses us  from all error of sin

  and the reference is to Isaiah   53     seeing   the connection  foretold as prophecy  being fulfilled in the new testament  .. A Grave Assigned


8 By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke was due?


9His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.


10But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering,

He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand....

[marie glen]

Amen.. the 2 worms, very interesting  :thumbsup:


11For we who are alive are always consigned to death for Jesus' sake,

so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our mortal bodies....


That first worm must perish - be circumcised/stripped away - the chaff away from the wheat kernal

To make room for the new, the born again..

Can't put new wine in an old wine skin lest the skin burst and both the wine and the vessel be lost.. but there needs be a new vessel, i.e. born again..?

[The verse in Isaiah 14 also reminds me of Paul's warning to Titus about Jewish myths.. avoid Jewish myths.. They had their written Word.. the Torah, and the verbal, the talmud, which has fables such as all the pagan.. with the whole "eternal" or "immortal".. "torments" etc.. Paul also called them old wives tales (ancient?)

Which - the verse of Isaiah 14 would seem to be another contradiction of..]

Isaiah 14:11 - Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.-like a typical grave.. [refuting the idea of eternal].. the first worm in the verse is "rimmah"-worm and the second one in the verse is "tola"-crimson

- rimmah - maggot, worm (as cause and sign of decay) Origin: from H7426 in the sense of breeding
                                 or a maggot (as rapidly bred), literally or figuratively ( :eek: ) http://studybible.info/strongs/H7415

That first worm must perish! ..Be circumcised, the chaff stripped away..