Fire for baptizing and for burning chaff

[GodIsLove]

Matthew 1-10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

This is part of the gospel reading for today.

What just stood out to me was that:
1) trees that don't bear fruit will be burned with fire
2) Jesus will baptize with fire
3) Jesus will burn chaff with fire

It shows to me that this burning/baptizing is one and the same. we are baptized with fire and the chaff burns away. But I don't think it's an instantaneous one time deal. I still have some chaff that needs burning up :)

Blessings on the second day of advent, though I know we are a diverse group and not all celebrate in this way. For me it helps to keep me focused. The kids and I light the candle and talk about the theme of the day (today is love).

:HeartThrob:

[Lazarus Short]

That's exactly how I see it too!  God's fire, which should not be confused with so-called "hellfire," is to burn up unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble.  Note that the ax separates the root from the trunk, and the root is not burned.  The chaff is with the grain until they are threshed - they are one, then separated, then the chaff is burned or carried away by the wind.  The grain is saved.  All of us still have a few such things to be burned away, but if we have gold, silver and precious gems among them, we will receive a reward.

[micah7:9]

 :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

   
I found this when googling "chaff". I wanted to know more about the process.

Some chaff can be so loose that just winnowing it in the wind will separate it from the grain. But if not loose enough, there's threshing to loosen the chaff/hull/inedible husk, and then the winnowing to get rid of it once the hull is loose... The more solid (and stubbornly) the hull is attached, the more threshing that has to be done. (The grain with chaff is useless and inedible.)

"In the old days, covered grains were often pounded to loosen the hull, or soaked in water; sometimes they even needed to be lightly milled to remove the hull. It's no coincidence that "thrash" – meaning to whip or flog – originated as a variant of the word thresh."

I never knew that! Isn't that something!

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

Tribulation likely comes from the word tribulum.
That's Latin for threshing board.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshing_board



Click here

[marie glen]

   Wow! :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshing_board

..oh man.. I'd rather be winnowed than threshed..

[Dandelion]

Matthew 1-10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

This is part of the gospel reading for today.

What just stood out to me was that:
1) trees that don't bear fruit will be burned with fire
2) Jesus will baptize with fire
3) Jesus will burn chaff with fire

It shows to me that this burning/baptizing is one and the same. we are baptized with fire and the chaff burns away. But I don't think it's an instantaneous one time deal. I still have some chaff that needs burning up :)

Blessings on the second day of advent, though I know we are a diverse group and not all celebrate in this way. For me it helps to keep me focused. The kids and I light the candle and talk about the theme of the day (today is love).

:HeartThrob:

I think this is a great analysis!

The more we dig into the Bible, the more the pieces all fit.

Thank you, GodIsLove!

D.

[sheila]

His 'WORD is like Fire" purified 7 times....Gold  tried in the fire is His words of truth and understanding being clarified/refined in us.

  Buy from me gold tried in the fire..and eye salve. chaff can also be...when I was a babe I thought as a babe type stuff that Paul spoke of.

  the 'head' of the grain being the mind..and having the mind of Christ.   cloven tougnes of fire above their head.........mature grain..both

  bows and lifts it's head up..as it is born along of the Holy spirit.,,,,cleansing fire. Bringing us out of Babylon like He has...a lot of burning up

of chaff been going on/dross removed.    Iv'e been dunged to save me from the axe..and severely pruned to the extent that I could have died

from the shock....Eventually He will have us all where He wants us.

[eaglesway]

Wow, I just saw another great confirmation of UR.

He will thoroughly purge His threshing floor.

This world, and mortal life is the threshing floor. All He has created, like the tohu and bohu over which the Spirit hovers, brooding over the womb until the Word, the incorruptible seed, is planted within, "Let there be light".

"The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 'For in him we live and move and have our being. As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'

In every time and in every place every life lives and moves and has its being in Him, seeking and groping upon the threshing floor. Even those who flee from Him find themselves facing Him, over and over. Those who resist Him find themselves accomplishing His purpose, because He "causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will."

Even the evil that men do winds up fulfilling His purposes in proving the glory of His grace in the redeemed, who cannot be overcome by evil, and at last overcoming all evil because He has "bound all in disobedience so that He can have mercy upon all".

He subjected the whole creation to futility, but "Light will shine out of darkness to reveal in our hearts the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

He will thoroughly, completely, absolutely purge His threshing floor. No chaff will remain. All the seed will be gathered into the garner.

David built an altar upon the threshing floor of Araunah. It was the point at which the Lord halted the angel of death in the judging of Israel. It became the site of the temple built by Solomon.

Every life a threshing floor, everyone salted with fire, every sacrifice seasoned with salt, until the altar becomes the temple.

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst?

Subjecting the creation to futility so that every creature can learn the beauty of love, and the chaff come off the seed to be burned with unquenchable fire, and He is that fire.

"The word of the Lord is living and active and sharper than any two edged sword, dividing asunder soul and spirit, bone and marrow, making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart. No creature is hidden from the eyes of Him with whom we have to do."

That's what He does. That's what everything is all about. Revelation, separation, letting death finish its work so that life can be planted as a seed in the earth. The chaff must break, then the shoot, then the stalk, the the full fruited head. A microcosm to each life, and also the macro of the whole of creation, history and the fulfillment of "the administration of the fulness of times, the gathering together of all into one in Christ".

"Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." 27 The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shake—so that what cannot be shaken may remain." Heb 10

Again, the shaking is for separation. Passing mortal things perish and only eternal things remain. and death is not eternal. It will be "swallowed up by immortality". It will be anulled as the "last adversary". God will be everything in everyone :o)

[sheila]

 :banana:   love it!   ...a wonderful revelation!!!!!

[Dandelion]

"Every life a threshing floor, everyone salted with fire, every sacrifice seasoned with salt, until the altar becomes the temple."  eaglesway.

Amen.     :dsunny:

D.

[sheila]

 :2c:   I believe that when Jesus and the Father comes to sup with us...His reward is with Him...and He gives us pennies from heaven......talents

of light and understanding for us to grow into His fullness and mind/that way UNION and ONENESS of love/understanding/enlarges/magnifys

   the Lord in us and   Blesses us all.

     

[Ross]

G'day;
Here in Australia the fire goes through our native trees pretty explosively- burns out all the dead wood, germinates seeds that have been dormant, cleans out the undergrowth and rubbish.
The next year the bush is alive and revegetating with lush new shoots.
The indigenous people would live in an area for several years then burn the area they had just dwelt in and would move to a new place. They were similar to the seven year cycle in O.T.
Burning away the dross/rubbish seems to be part of that master plan to regenerate the coming ages.

[rosered]

 


:HeartThrob: 

Children born   a new  of Holy Spirit  and Fire


Children of Light

8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.

Walk as children of light,

9for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness, and truth.

10Test and prove what pleases the Lord.

11Have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.

13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for everything that is illuminated becomes a light itself. !!!!!!!


14So it is said:

"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise up from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."

15Pay careful attention, then, to how you walk, not as unwise but as wise,

16redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is.

18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to reckless indiscretion. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your hearts to the Lord,

  20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[marie glen]

Wow, I just saw another great confirmation of UR.

He will thoroughly purge His threshing floor.

This world, and mortal life is the threshing floor.

       :O  :2thumbs:

Even the evil that men do winds up fulfilling His purposes

   :thumbsup: ..to my mind, and way of thinking.. "fulfills His purpose" ..by proving His point (being one way)

David built an altar upon the threshing floor of Araunah. It was the point at which the Lord halted the angel of death in the judging of Israel. It became the site of the temple built by Solomon.

       :O how interesting!

Every life a threshing floor, everyone salted with fire, every sacrifice seasoned with salt, until the altar becomes the temple.

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved

:thumbsup:

I believe all are learning that only what is built on the Rock can stand.. that He is life and there is no life apart from Him.. Like an age to age 'note to self' being written on every heart, do not go that way - what way? any way that wanders away from HIM, because to do so can only result in imperfection - which is an abyss and bottomless pit of potentiality, proven, by the evil that men may do.. (do, have done!) The smoke of it all, its collapse and burning, shall rise up (in our memory and psyche?) for ever and ever (age to age..) written/engraved on every heart and mind, making for a peaceful Kingdom.. (imo,  :angelharp: i've probably posted this before, :laughing7: it's what always comes to mind.)

Ancient Day of Atonement was a day of personal 'accounting' (repentance, reconciliation, restoration) and was also a national and collective day of accounting, repentance and reconciliation. And in mortal (aka, imperfect) life there is personal crashing and burning, and there is collective crashing and burning..

He is that fire.

:thumbsup:

That's what He does. That's what everything is all about. Revelation, separation, letting death finish its work so that life can be planted as a seed in the earth. The chaff must break, then the shoot, then the stalk, the the full fruited head. A microcosm to each life, and also the macro of the whole of creation, history and the fulfillment of "the administration of the fulness of times, the gathering together of all into one in Christ".

"Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." 27 The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shake—so that what cannot be shaken may remain." Heb 10

Again, the shaking is for separation. Passing mortal things perish and only eternal things remain. and death is not eternal. It will be "swallowed up by immortality". It will be anulled as the "last adversary". God will be everything in everyone :o)

[marie glen]

G'day;
Here in Australia the fire goes through our native trees pretty explosively- burns out all the dead wood, germinates seeds that have been dormant, cleans out the undergrowth and rubbish.
The next year the bush is alive and revegetating with lush new shoots.
The indigenous people would live in an area for several years then burn the area they had just dwelt in and would move to a new place. They were similar to the seven year cycle in O.T.
Burning away the dross/rubbish seems to be part of that master plan to regenerate the coming ages.

      "seven year cycle" - I just recently heard something about how Judah was carried away and captive for each year they had not given the land its Sabbath.. every seventh year the land was to rest.. I'm thinking this is how Daniel realized the captivity was prophesied to be for 70 years.. (have to read that, haven't for a while). And there's some ideas these days that the LORD God still does things according to His timetable / calendar..  (? interesting rumblings...)

[Cocoon]

I was just reading this today as I was doing a word search on worms (on a side note it was  interesting).

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

I see eagles Way made reference to it.  I just don't know how I missed this verse but clearly indicates one of two things.  Either we are all going to hell for eternity.  Or that fire isn't exactly what the general assembly has said it was. 

I see UR everywhere.   :girlheart:

[Dandelion]

I was just reading this today as I was doing a word search on worms (on a side note it was  interesting).

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

I see eagles Way made reference to it.  I just don't know how I missed this verse but clearly indicates one of two things.  Either we are all going to hell for eternity.  Or that fire isn't exactly what the general assembly has said it was. 

I see UR everywhere.   :girlheart:

Yes, right.....that's what starts to happen......so many scriptures; so many connections; so many thoughts.....it was always there, wasn't it????!!!!!!

:Hi5:

D.

[jugghead]

When Cocoon mentioned the roof being blown off ..... this is something I wrote in my journal

     Been talking to Cocoon on Tentmaker, a student of the word who is just learning to read, just like me. If we understand that physical events and examples carry with them spiritual meaning; are these examples other ways that the Father talks to us to give us the subject matter on which to speak to others?

    The reason I bring this up is, he spoke of the roof being blown of the room in which they do Bible study. With the roof being "a covering" of the room, it is to be understood as the removal of the old to be replaced by the new. This example starts in Genesis with "Let there be light" replacing darkness with light and then a separation of the two leading us into day two with what is from above and what is from below, in the example of the covering of nakedness with a fig leaf to the replacement of it with the skin of a sacrifice.

     But both the fig leaf and the skin of the sacrifice are the same truth but grow out of two different places. The fig leaf was an end product of what grew out of the ground (the heart) and the skin of the sacrifice is an end result of what was taken off of something dead, which can be understood as the veil (skin, flesh) being removed from the carnal mind exposing it for what it is and it is this understanding that grows in the mind to see the flesh (skin of unrighteousness) being put to death at the cross.

     What I really find amazing is that as I write He is revealing these things to me and then I write them, in which writing them down is a physical manifestation of the spiritual event taking place in me at this very moment. A regeneration of the skin in which the old is constantly falling away while the new skin is being produced from within which relates to the process into which we enter, the washing of the word or baptism of water into the baptism by fire.

     The baptism of water takes place with the mind whereas the baptism of fire takes place with the heart which in turn causes the renewing of the mind with all the physical (literal) examples stored there are given new life (making all things new) by seeing the spiritual meaning of each event and example. It is in this understanding that we get a deeper understanding of the example of the honeycomb inside the carcass of the lion, with the honeycomb filled with honey being a perfect example of the physical (honeycomb) contains the spiritual (honey).

[rosered]

I was just reading this today as I was doing a word search on worms (on a side note it was  interesting).

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

I see eagles Way made reference to it.  I just don't know how I missed this verse but clearly indicates one of two things.  Either we are all going to hell for eternity.  Or that fire isn't exactly what the general assembly has said it was. 

I see UR everywhere.   :girlheart:

  The worm is Jacob ,    we are all named'' Jacob ''for a time  experiencing GOD and these examples for our benefit  , or can see ourselves in every   name  written in the Lambs book of LIFE  , the WHOLE BOOK is written of Him, till we are all    in CHRIST 100 % completed .

But from Jacob / supplanter "to trip up or to overthrow." a '' worm '' when GOD gave  him a new name  being Israel /GOD PREVAILS  by the Spirit of truth  a SWORD /WORD in his  hand   , both names have   deep  meaning in them.

Isaiah 41

13"For I am the LORD your God, who upholds your right hand, Who says to you, 'Do not fear, I will help you.' 14"Do not fear, you worm Jacob, you men of Israel;

It is noted  that worm Jacob is apart/father, beginning   of the ''men of Israel ''   just the wording is in Gods Wisdom to show us ''proof''
GOD is a consuming fire     and become instruments in His hand , powers ..

I will help you," declares the LORD, "and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel.

15"Behold, I have made you a new, sharp threshing sledge with double edges; You will thresh the mountains and pulverize them, And will make the hills like chaff....

This is how GOD prevails  by receiving  His sons   as  chastened of the Lord and purged .......

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

  John 1 ...11He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God —

13 children born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but born of God....


Hebrews  "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, or lose heart when He rebukes you. 6For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises everyone He receives as a son." 7Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?...


Being the nature of God and as described as  being   ,GOD IS  SPIRIT and '' a consuming fire'' and ''God is Love ''.


Would we not experience GODS PRESENCE  in these  3 ways/things  ?

The Holy Spirit and Fire is the  true baptism of the birthing of sons of God , as dead to the world but ALIVE IN CHRIST  this anointing  is  GODS POWER resting on you ,  in my  understanding  .

      What the cross of Jesus Christ  shows us openly ...  the rightly dividing of the WORD OF TRUTH   the above from the below and  GOD DIVING IT WITHIN US   as we also take up our Cross and follow Jesus   example into  honoring the FATHER IN THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH   ..  LUKE 12    49

Not Peace, But Division

48But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows.

From everyone who has been given much, much will be required;

and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded.


49    I have come to ignite a fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!


50But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!...
THE CROSS is the great DIVIDE    and  gulf fixed    from the beginning  Gen 1   GOD separated the waters/voices    as  TRUTH   ABOVE and   from below   the flood of lies   that must be dried up   by the  fire of Gods  jealous  LOVE ...

Revelation 16  the  bowls of Gods wrath poured out upon everything that offends    that must be removed from  within us all

  God is giving  you the strength by the rising up of Jesus Christ   within you   to overcome the world , because greater is He within you than in the world     , GOD HOLDS ALL THINGS WITHIN HIMSELF ....
HE is not of this world ,  be in the world but not of it   , GOD melts the elements    [ molten image   in Daniel  of metals  of  mans will  worshiping   the things they do not know or understand    ] 2 Peter 3

I believe you have to be in  touch with  , connected  to   the TRUE AND LIVING GOD , He seeking those to worship Him in  the SPIRIT OF TRUTH     and it is a  inward working of the Holy Spirit in power  by the LIVING WORD 

  by witnessing all this outward destruction,divisions   we know GOD IS IN POWER  AND CONTROL   ... 
I recall  many years ago when someone  asked me.   
DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD ?
  I said , yes ,   I do,,,      but    I do not know God personally , or His ways or  anything   like that , just what I have  heard from others    and  fear what I do not know or understand about God .

The Holy Spirit promises to teach us Himself , so we can  have His peace  resting on us ...
  We have tasted GOD and know His goodness  , just as we haves tasted  death   and HE has tasted death for everyone of us    and is not to far away from anyone of us  Acts 17 ...   

Life lessons  as we grow in His truth and grace   , His own children   being taught of God       Our heavenly Father ...
HE LOVES us all  so very much    and ALL  will LIVE because of Him .in Gods perfect and complete    LOVE   ..

[eaglesway]

This is the worm that I think is being spoken of by Jesus. "Their worm does not die and the fire is not qeunched."

Jacob was a worm until he became Israel after he picked up his limp wrestling with God.The wrestlling is often portrayed as a negative thing, but I dont see it that way. It is the way we become "named".

"To the one who overcomes I will give a new name."

We are in the process of becoming friends of God. He is already our frend and has granted us His favor, but we are not yet "friends" in the sense of an intimate familiar friendship when we are still immature....The carnal mind is hostile, not friendly, towards God.

Have you ever had a friend who thought he was being friendly to you but really wasnt?, Really didnt get you at all? That's Jacob, he was getting to know God through discipline even as he walked in His blessing.

But in the wrestling he sought out the blessing and the blessing he received was the limp. The Lord dwells in the high and holy place and with everyone who is of a broken and a contrite heart. As we struggle with God He sorts us out. The fire burns the the works of the flesh and there is weeping and gnashing of teeth as the frustration mounts in the crucible of God, where He tries the reins and the hearts. The worm doesnt die. It gets converted, transformed, restored in the fire, when the pride is burned down.

In that day,

the Lord will punish with his sword—
    his fierce, great and powerful sword—
Leviathan the gliding serpent,
    Leviathan the coiling serpent;
he will slay the monster of the sea.
2 In that day—

"Sing about a fruitful vineyard:
3     I, the Lord, watch over it;
    I water it continually.
I guard it day and night
    so that no one may harm it.

Same worm(imo). Gets slain by the sword of the spirit. And the result is a vineyard blossoming in the soul that was once the lair of the dragon.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

"And their hearts were pierced and they said, "Men and brothers what must we do?" Acts 2:37

We see that a pierced heart is the beginning of restoration, and that is why repentence is still an imporant part of the gospel. We must be continually pierced, if we would continually mature. Ths is the process, dying to self- it is the cross. It is the Way.

"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed with ever-increasing glory into the same image....."

The circumscision of the heart and the unveiling of the eyes are the same thing. Cutting away the foreskin of the heart, and baptism is reckoned a circumscision as well, not of the flesh, but of the heart.

"Who shall free me from the body of this death?" Thank God for Jesus who is delivering me from it not just through the arbtrary imputation of forgiveness-which He does, but that is not the main thing- He "illuminates the eyes of our hearts" and we see ourselves, both as the worm and as the butterfly, because we also see Him, and we are becoming more like Him, as it just keeps growing deeper if we are Awake- everyday.

[jugghead]

But in the wrestling he sought out the blessing and the blessing he received was the limp.

Loved every thing you said EW but this one line jumped out at me.

Why is a limp a blessing? Because it slows us down in our walk ..... how often do we catch ourselves going through things to fast? We can easily miss what He is trying to teach us if we do not slow down ..... and I believe it is just part of the progression of slowing down so much that we are at rest .... sitting at His feet listening to Him like a child ..... being a Mary and not a Martha

A limp to me in reading Scripture is: as you read ... a certain word catches your attention, you slow down for a moment and then as you read on, another one catches your attention and you slow down again for a moment ..... which is exactly what happened with me in reading your post and that line caused me to slow down, it was a limp that caused me to slow down and post on it.