Brand new book on hell for children

[SteveW]

I was just thinking that one of the most evil things a person could do to another would be to tell them that their loving father is going to burn them alive forever, then I came across this:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/05/31/new-biblical-guide-to-hell-for-small-children-is-sick-and-depraved/

It is a new Puritan book for children ages 5-9 to teach them how God will burn them forever if they don't believe, complete with "tastefully done illustrations" depicting a kid in a cage being dropped into a lake of fire.  Here is the summary from The Friendly Atheist:

I have nothing new, really, to add to what greater minds than mine have said about the depravity of this ideology. Christopher Hitchens described the teaching of hell to children as "wicked in the extreme." Greta Christina calls it "child abuse." Dan Arel agrees, finding it immoral and sickening.
Quite simply, this book — and this belief — leave me speechless in sadness and anger. This is surely one of the most evil ideologies ever formed in the minds of men.

[Tom]

For once I agree with an atheist that the "New Biblical Guide to Hell for Small Children is Sick and Depraved," but the problem is that the atheists win converts with this kind of nonsense because it represents what Christianity is seen as in the world today. Most people don't realize that you can quit the church that pushes this lie without quitting God simply by reading an accurate translation of scripture.

[bushy]

Doesn't sound like nonsense to me. I think the friendly atheist hit the nail on the head.  :smile:

[Joanna]

I'm shocked and disgusted. If the book was circulated to children in Britain it would cause a big protest and be regarded as religious extremism and even child abuse. Even though the book is aimed at telling young children about hell, it should be censured in the UK so no person under age 18 is to read it. It should carry the same censorship as pornography. Young children should be protected against this kind of theology and the book should be banned.

[sheila]

   well...Babylon has certainly become a cage of unclean spirits...yet He delivers His turtledove from the snare.

   Proverbs 6;26  for the prostitute reduces you to a loaf of bread..and the adultress preys upon your very life

   Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned?

   say to wisdom'You are my sister," and call understanding your kinsman..they will keep you from the adultress.

   Proverbs 7;22  all at once he followed her like an ox going to the slaughter,like a deer stepping into a noose

   LIKE A BIRD DARTING INTO SNARE

   

[Tom]

Doesn't sound like nonsense to me. I think the friendly atheist hit the nail on the head.  :smile:

The "nonsense" is what the atheist is negatively criticizing, and I said I agree with him.

[eaglesway]

Better to be an atheist than to be a so-called Christian who would give a book on hell to a child to prep them for a lifetime of fear and a defiled image of God.

[Tom]

I think I agree with you on that one, bro.

[jabcat]

Another thing to think about on this one.  The doctrine may be horrible,.  But there have been many people down through history and yet today, who were drawn to God through the Holy Spirit to have faith on the crucified and risen Jesus as Savior, and "only" saw that much.  They had the KJV of the Bible and believed that's what the holy scriptures taught. That's the light they were given.  I personally don't think it's best to not have known Jesus at all, even in whatever amount of light they were given at the time.  IMO, they are still "of the faith" of Jesus, otherwise only Christian Universalists would have ever been children of God, and that i don't believe.   :2c: 

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I Cor. 2:2     For me, there's much to know.  But starting at the cross ain't bad.

[Tom]

I see where you're coming from, and I agree. I think somebody can be a believer without understanding the full scope of the evangel. It's a shame the majority of believers are deceived by the lie of hell.

[Tom]

I think it's the biggest thing the atheists have in their arsenal against the faith.

[Tom]

It's really sad that the lie of hell represents Christianity in the world today. We who know the truth may not be many, but even a small light shines bright in the darkness.

[jabcat]

I see where you're coming from, and I agree. I think somebody can be a believer without understanding the full scope of the evangel. It's a shame the majority of believers are deceived by the lie of hell.

Thank you, I agree.  It's something I personally don't understand, the purpose of that.  I'm sure God has a good reason though.

[newlove]

McMahon has a Phd  :dontknow: !?!
What a pitiful waste of a scholarly mind  - AS WEll !

[sheila]

 Jabcat...I think it's the bearing fruit 30 60 100 fold...depends on the circumstances of the 'soil" and Him by His

  spirit 'enabling" and making it grow..  also depending on His timing/patient while waiting for the increase.

   Christ the firstfruits/those belonging to Him when He walked on earth and put faith in Him, those awaiting Him at His

return, and the ALL[100 fold]

   O'Ye of little faith/but faith the size of a mustard seed growing.......what is impossible with men..possible with God.

[Abigail]

I'm shocked and disgusted. If the book was circulated to children in Britain it would cause a big protest and be regarded as religious extremism and even child abuse. Even though the book is aimed at telling young children about hell, it should be censured in the UK so no person under age 18 is to read it. It should carry the same censorship as pornography. Young children should be protected against this kind of theology and the book should be banned.

I fully understand your disgust Joanna. I don't believe, though, that civil government should decide what people may read, belief, or teach their children. As a homeschool mom, I know too well what horrors that may lead to. Namely, governments trying to control children's lifes, even to the point to taking them away from parents, because of a different opinion on what children should learn AND believe and how they should be raised. I would never applaud such a thing since I believe it does great harm to children and loving families, and to freedom itself.

Another problem is that it would not really help. When christians are persecuted on a specific doctrine, to them that actually confirms the truthfullness of that doctrine.

That's my opinion. :2c:

[rosered]

Matt 23



15"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell /Gehenna as yourselves

[Tom]

I think the best thing we can do is just try to publish the truth as much as possible to counter the lie of hell. We'll be persecuted by the church and its followers, but that's all right because some will receive the truth and help to publish it to those who haven't yet.

[jabcat]

yes sheila, all in His timing..sometimes the timing and what happens in the meantime baffles me, but I just need to trust at those times.

hey rosie..you may not think so either and you may want to elaborate on your scripture.  but i personally don't believe that everyone who the Spirit has drawn to the cross, yet still is yet to understand some other (though vital) doctrines such as the hell/UR issue, is necessarily a pharisee or of that spirit.  I've known hundreds of believers who truly love the Lord who believe in ET just because they've never been shown to understand anything else, truly believing that's what scripture teaches, yet their heart was nowhere near a pharisee spirit.  on the other hand I definitely have seen within that group, a subset who certainly do seem to have that attitude/spirit.     to further complicate (or hopefully clarify lol) still further, i've run across people who believe in UR that are harsh, angry, worldly, dismiss much of scripture, are for "anything goes", etc, and it's hard to see the effects of the cross in their life.    so, again, i don't personally think it's all about ALL the doctrines.  If someone has truly been drawn by the Spirit and within Jesus, IMO, that's the main thing.  Then we all can grow from there, as sheila shared, 30/60/100.  :2c:

[jabcat]

try to publish the truth as much as possible to counter the lie of hell. We'll be persecuted by the church and its followers, but that's all right because some will receive the truth and help to publish it to those who haven't yet.

:thumbsup:  truth in love

IMO, starting with the risen Savior.

[SteveW]

Jabcat, I really appreciate your thoughts.  There are many, many, many loving, gracious, good people who believe in Eternal Torment, in fact probably the majority.  God's Spirit works to draw us to His Son and His love regardless and in spite of our best efforts at theology.  The perniciousness of ET is one of the chief things that has bugged me since believing in UR....why isn't God more concerned for His glory?  ET so slanders His character IMO.  Yet He hasn't chosen to correct it.  Of course He could.  The only conclusion I can come to is that He has a different perspective on it.  That perhaps belief in UR isn't nearly important to Him as it is to me because He knows how it all works out.  Whatever the reason, I think it is a good and merciful and loving reason and must have something to do with the ultimate slam dunk victory He's orchestrating.  We shouldn't expect anything less from Him right?  Gonna be awesome to stand with unspeakable joy someday amazed at how loving our Father's actions have been at all times and in all ways towards all people throughout all  history.

I tend to agree with this statement of Tom's as well: "I think it's the biggest thing the atheists have in their arsenal against the faith."   That makes the prevalence of ET even  more of a mystery.

[rosered]

yes sheila, all in His timing..sometimes the timing and what happens in the meantime baffles me, but I just need to trust at those times.

hey rosie..you may not think so either and you may want to elaborate on your scripture.  but i personally don't believe that everyone who the Spirit has drawn to the cross, yet still is yet to understand some other (though vital) doctrines such as the hell/UR issue, is necessarily a pharisee or of that spirit.  I've known hundreds of believers who truly love the Lord who believe in ET just because they've never been shown to understand anything else, truly believing that's what scripture teaches, yet their heart was nowhere near a pharisee spirit.  on the other hand I definitely have seen within that group, a subset who certainly do seem to have that attitude/spirit.     to further complicate (or hopefully clarify lol) still further, i've run across people who believe in UR that are harsh, angry, worldly, etc, and it's hard to see the effects of the cross in their life.    so, again, i don't personally think it's all about ALL the doctrines.  If someone has truly been drawn by the Spirit and within Jesus, IMO, that's the main thing.  Then we all can grow from there, as sheila shared, 30/60/100.  :2c:

  You are right James !!!!

That scripture come to mind when I was   reading the  thread and the book of hell  for the little ones .......

  I agree with you,   I love many who are bound too the   hell = hades  /Gehenna  doctrine

I dont even think they know  the     understanding  of what " hell"      means     exactly     , except   it is a place   to avoid .

  and many   who preach and teach it  do believe it also       ....     

When you first believe , its so hard because you  are still very carnal and want to please God but take everything very literal      ,

than its confusing because it than turns into    something you cannot understand at all and  go to church to help you out and find out what it means thinking surly Jesus is there      , The      Lord is there   

and than began to   judge   everyone  and everything according to the BOOK , the LETTER OF THE LAW that    KILLS

I  was the two fold   child of hell     and felt I was living it       
praying God help me not to sin and if I do take me before I do       
  I was in total torment       , in my  mind
and thought I was going to  have a breakdown

How God  delivered me out of that bondage was   

  I heard the preacher  condemn a man   he did not know  nor I  but used his example of   not being  at church  , but mowing his lawn   on a sunday

  and the VOICE SPOKE TO ME  CLEARLY      , saying ,,Do you believe this ?     
I spoke in my mind  NO LORD  , YOU ARE GOD you can save anyone in where and any time !! YOU ARE GOD ! 

and the voice said ,   Than why are you here ?

I gathered my children   , whom were small and left    and   did not look back ...

My sister is the one who told me of UR     And at  first I was leary   , and    went back and forth    and   was unstable in all my ways   
  Lord I got weary   very weary    , I finally  gave up and   said LORD  TEACH ME YOURSELF      , I give up    :sigh: 

  than  the flow began , by  the littles   in the scriptures      and many questions I asked Him      and than by     Gods increase


I love them all they only do as they are told   , and taught  and do not know any better    ,    God  is  so good      may He  bless them all    :HeartThrob:     

[jabcat]

Thanks Steve and rosie, and amen.

Great, inspiring testimony sister rose.   :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

Altho I agree that starting at the cross ain't bad- at least it is seen from a personal salvation point of view even in an ET paradigm, I am still appalled at the idea that children would be instructed from a book about hell, because even if ET was true, I dont think it would ever be the milk of the word for children.  :dontknow:

I do not think that the Holy Spirit could be the source of such a thing.

Probably trying to insulate kids against people like us, who believe that the cross will eventually win everyone.

[Tom]

I agree that it's especially outrageuos that kids are fed this stuff, but I think it's also outrageous to feed it to adults regardless of the fact that there are many loving souls who believe it. We have to compassionately share the truth with them to show them God does no such thing, and, in fact, will eventually save all mankind, not torture most of them in fire forever. It's a horrible lie perpetrated by the institution, which supposedly represents Christianity in the world, that needs to be exposed for what it is. Those believers who are still trapped by the deception need to be freed by the truth.

https://youtu.be/qLTcwwajnCI