I was just thinking that if a person uses the argument that heaven must be temporary if hell is temporary, maybe we can just be facetious and say "True, but we can't let our namby pamby feelings come in the way of proper interpretation. Why shouldn't we believe that we will all ultimately permanently die?" and just let them answer their own objection. :icon_jokercolor:
Jesus conquered the last enemy. 1 Cor 15
Both eternal and temporary heaven and hell are wrong translation.
Basicly the text means
Eternal life --> Originating-from-God life
Eternal punishment --> Originating-from-God punishment
More detail here: http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-verses-used-to-assert-not-all-will-be-saved/revelation-1411/msg203758/#msg203758
I know some arguments against it. :) I just think it might be funny.
:2c: dealing with Israel God said..'I place before you life or death" when Christ/the grace of God came.....All things are yours....
both life and death. we have all been bound up in disobedience....and bearing the corrupt image...and so shall we all bear
the incorruptible image. One image is dust/one is incorruptible spirit/one is death/temporal..the other life eternal/immortal.
we are fearfully and wonderfully made!!!
the flesh counts for nothing.....the nations are but mere dust on the scales......spiritual Israel/son
of man/is the sons of God. a life giving[quickening] spirit....out of your belly will flow springs of living water....
Christ gave eternal life..to all men. if you believe you will never die[just have a change of garment from flesh to glory ]
....even if you die[faith not reaching this measure of fullness] ye shall live!
...our light affliction is as nothing[temporal/but for a moment] compared to our eternal glory bearing the image
of His son.
so, Jesus, who forgave His enemies from the cross, will inflict pain on His creatures forever ?...something wrong there...everlasting life is the life of God..the gift of God.....everlasting punishment in hell is a lie.
Quote from: darryl on April 02, 2017, 12:06:31 PM
so, Jesus, who forgave His enemies from the cross, will inflict pain on His creatures forever ?...something wrong there...everlasting life is the life of God..the gift of God.....everlasting punishment in hell is a lie.
Eternal torment is a lie ..... If we could just look at it like this , We that know Him , know better , it is those that do not know Him yet that still believe the lie ... Just as we once were ........ ALL will Know Him from the least to the greatest all will Know the Glory of God :HeartThrob:
Colossians 1
Ben-Elohim Is Supreme
15 He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created—
in heaven and on earth,
the seen and the unseen,
whether thrones or angelic powers
or rulers or authorities.
All was created through Him and for Him.
17 He exists before everything,
and in Him all holds together.
18 He is the head of the body, His community.
He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead—
so that He might come to have first place in all things.
19 For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him
20
and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, making peace through the blood of His cross—
whether things on earth or things in heaven!
All things means all things , not some or a few , those whom argue over the jots and tittles , have not come fully to Christ in their hearts yet , in my opinion ,,, and are still captured in fear that has torment and ignorant of the ways of God ...
Only God can change us , this is to His Sprint and to His glory, ALONE .... not by strength but by my Spirit , the two witnesses that works salvation to every man is the SPIRIT OF TRUTH and the WORD OF TRUTH .... Being Jesus Christ the Son of God and the Holy Spirit as SENT From GOD HIMSELF , for me it is that simple and pure truth .Who deserves this glory but GOD HIMSELF ?
Zechariah 4Tree of Life Version (TLV)
Two Olive Trees and the Capstone
4 Then the angel who had been speaking with me returned and woke me—like a man who is wakened from his sleep.
2 He asked me, 'What do you see?'
I replied, 'Behold, I see a solid gold menorah with its bowl at the top of it, and its seven lamps on it with seven pipes for the lamps that are on the top of it. 3 Also two olive trees are by it, one on the right side of the bowl and the other on the left side of it.'[a]
4 Then I responded by saying to the angel speaking with me, 'What are these, my lord?'
5 The angel who spoke with me responded by asking me, 'You do not know what these are?'
I replied, 'No, my lord.'
6 Then he responded to me by saying, 'This is the word of Adonai to Zerubbabel saying: "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Ruach!" says Adonai-Tzva'ot. 7 "What are you, great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a plain. He will bring out the capstone with shouts o
f "Grace, grace" to it.'"8 Again the word of Adonai came to me saying: 9 "The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this House. His hands will also finish it.
Then you will know that Adonai-Tzva'ot has sent me to you. 10 For who despises the day of small things? These seven—which are the eyes of Adonai that run back and forth throughout the whole earth—will rejoice when they see the plumb line in Zerubbabel's hand."
11 Then I responded by asking him, "What are these two olive trees, on the right and on the left of the menorah?" 12 Again I asked him, "What are these two olive branches beside the two golden pipes that empty the golden oil out of them?"
13 He said to me, "You do not know what these are?"
I said, "No, my lord."
14 So he said, "These are the two anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth."
Some say it is the two churches , but are they not the LIVING BREATHING BODY OF CHRIST /ANOINTING HIMSELF ? there is truth in this as well .
When Jesus Christ come first time [arrived as a prophecy from Zech 4 Pure Holy WORD OF GOD ] as the head of all authority , was it not ? , as a little one , as a holy thing born of a woman [ church ] under the law in the Fullness of time ?
Did Jesus not inform us that the Son of man had no where to lay his head , this being the body not fully formed yet , but began the day of Pentecost unto this day is not the fullness of Christ being fulfilled by the Sprint of prophecy /truth and the Holy /pure truth , Word of God , I believe with all my heart this is truth and God will not loose one !!
When Christ tasted death for every man / Adam , It would be that every man would Live because of Him , the Life giving Spirit .
Hell / grave/empty tomb of our hearts , fear in torment , to me is the place of not knowing God at all , and only , faith , hope and Love in the Power of God Alone , can fill that void ....
If we have Jesus, we have life. Anyone, when not having Jesus, are not having the life.. If one for ever has Jesus, they will have life un ending.. But I do not believe in un ending death.. Or actually, I believe the potential for un ending death is veRy real and all would end up right there, if not for God's rescue..
:girlheart: