Creation Hymn

[Eleutheros]

Greetings Gentle Readers.

This imaginative story was first posted in this place on the forum as a supplement to a topic I started a number of years back.

I removed it when I finished that topic because I felt the story was still incomplete.

After reworking it, I no longer feel that way and would like to share it with you again.

It has a lot to say, but it is, foremost, a story, and hopefully one written well enough to keep you reading, once you get into it.

To make it as easy as possible to read I suggest that you use <CTRL +> to enlarge the text on your Windows machine or <CMD +> on your Mac.

Be good!

Eleuthros

Creation Hymn

A Unique Retelling of Genesis 1-3

Researched & Written By Dennis M. Martin-All Rights Are Reserved.

Foreword

I like being human. It's a good thing to be.

Sure, we have our limitations, but we also have imaginations; we create problems, but we also come up with solutions. We can be irritating and obnoxious toward each other, but we can also demonstrate compassion and empathy just as readily.
We think, and we know that we think.
We experience emotions and, we can capture a moment, a thought, or an idea—in so many different ways—and then share them with our fellow humans.
We imagine, incessantly, and then we build on that imagination.
We can agree, and we can agree to disagree, or be disagreeable, choosing to either hate, or to love, with consequences either way.
We can be pessimistic, yes, and optimistic, too—that choice is always ours to make.
And—for who we are—every ending introduces a beginning.

So, how did human beings come to be here, on a seemingly singular planet in an unimaginably vast Universe? And how did we come to be the kind of people that we are—people who know the difference between good and evil, and yet, for that knowledge, seem unable to realize the ideal that such knowledge incorporates into us?

Putting all speculation aside and considering the simple existence of the account written in Genesis, I perceive that Genesis is the only document we have that makes any attempt whatsoever to answer these questions. Thus, without it, all we have left to us is our speculations.

It is an ancient document, written, of course, in a compact style and it has survived, unembellished—and unremarkably so when one considers the tenacity of the Hebrew scribes—as it made its way to us through millennia of time. This has made it, "The Document to Be Dealt With," when considering our origins. Some deal with it by dismissing it as myth, or just by simply ignoring it. And some deal with it by declaring it an allegory, or just incomprehensible, but—most certainly—not to be taken literally. Yet, some choose to deal with it by accepting it as a factual document; a fantastic, but still literal account, handed down with purpose; for it seems to describe to us a world that was lost, a world of which we would know nothing apart from this account.
All then who contemplate the origin of ourselves must deal with this account, in some way, regardless. However, any choice made on how to deal with it will lead anyone to conclusions that are quite different from another's, thus making this a controversial document.

Who wrote Genesis? No one knows for sure. But, I believe the first of the two accounts (Gen 1:1-2:3) was written by a human being who was very close to the story it tells: for it is a story, foremost.
Concerning the second account (Gen 2:4-4:26), I think it likely that it was appended sometime shortly after the flood, given the mention of rain, and that it came from an account written before the flood, during the time when the lives of human beings lasted many hundreds of years and the life span of Adam & Eve made them accessible by all for most of the first thousand years. That world was very different from the one we know.
So there is conjecture in this retelling of mine, but no artistic license, even though my imagination was employed in the writing process. That means that nothing I wrote is intended to either sustain, or contest, anyone's preferred theological rumination. Rather it was conjecture, derived from many long and careful considerations, that led to several logically unavoidable conclusions as I allowed the story to unfold to my mind what it seemed to say. That is why it took me years to research and write because the questions that this story tasked me to find the answers for did not come easily, but they did come.

Regardless, then, my dear reader, of what your own preferred understanding of the Genesis story may be, I think you will find this retelling a distinctive one, at the very least.

I like being human, it's a good thing to be, despite the difficulties we must currently endure because of where we are now and who we are now. And so it is my wish that you, too, will discover the good difference made to hope that I have found in this very ancient document as I attempt to add detail to the story of how we got to be here and how we got to be who we are.
It is my wish that you will come to understand what I mean when I say, "Be good! It is, after all, what we were created to be!"

—Dennis!

Creation Hymn

Nothing.

Once, there were no Things, and no one to share them with. It cannot be explained, but You are all that ever was. And all that is.

You did, long ago, create these Elohim, these other spirit-beings who are, "The Sons of Elohim," some of which are Malawk, or, "Messengers," and some of which are seated at Your Divine Council. But, now, because of the, "throwing down," of the previous creation, those still with You have little to do besides standing at the ready, awaiting Your will; for these faithful ones are to become a benefit to something far greater than they have known before, they are to be a part of something that only You, the unique Elohim, The One Who is Plural, could imagine.

You feel it powerfully, this need that is in You. It's a need as big as The Void just beyond this place; a void begging You to fill it. It is a Desire that permeates Your entire Being; the goodness of Your very existence demanding that there be others who can benefit from Who You are; others who will want to commune with You, willingly and gladly and, in turn, receive from You all the Good and Pleasurable things that are in You to give; others who, like You, will exist to the benefit of others; others to whom You can be God.

You have imagined these others as Children; Children that You will create to reflect the unity that You, Yourself, possess by integrating into corporeal bodies that which is unique in You. And for their possessing this, You intend that they will come into the expression of this sentient authority in a beautiful and wondrous place; a place filled with all kinds of whimsical, extraordinary and dangerous things; things that will respond with delight to their every attention and thus become a part of fulfilling the good desires You will give them to play, explore, create and learn.
This place will not only safeguard their existence and provide for them, but will evolve with them, growing and changing as they do, thus stimulating them to learn from the deeper things that You will hide for them to discover.

It will be a place designed to flourish for the work they will put into serving it. And so, it will become a place that will inspire them into self-expression; a place that will excite them with possibilities; a place that will gradually unravel to them Your heart and kindle in them an ever increasing admiration for You.

It will become a place where You can provide for them eons of time filled with joy and creativity, desire and need, challenge, fulfillment, adventure, and satisfaction.

Your heart races, now, as You and Your eternal companion, The One known as Wisdom, contemplate the new Universe that You will create to sustain their Home and them on it.
Your imagination soars as You meticulously plan out all the delicate and obscure details that will infuse every Thing You make with meaning; Things both near and far and large and small; things that will awaken Your Children to all of which You are aware. For You intend that they will become like You, knowing the difference between Good and Evil and delighting in doing good.

Then, once this virtue is established in them, they will be enabled to comprehend Your own heart of Loves and thus live together in harmony for knowing an internal, unshakable joy that comes from a mind that comprehends peace; a comprehension made possible for the accord that will exist between Body, Soul and Spirit. Thus awakened, their perceptions of Reality and Possibility will be raised far above the base understanding that the physical world they will dwell on can bring to them.

Now, at last, after an eternity of thinking and planning, You begin to lay, once again, the foundation for All Things New, re-creating that strange Reality You once conceived where Spirit and Substance can co-exist.

The Elohim watch spell bound now as You begin Your Work.

From the substance that was once, long-ago, created ex nihilo, when, "hydrogen," and, "oxygen," first bonded together upon the instant of their creation, a massive sphere of, "water," holding a large, wasted and vacated sphere at its center, is, now, all that is left. It is from this that everything else will, again, come to be.

Your Spirit now hovers, vibrating around this sphere like a mother bird that will soon flutter around its nest. The sphere of water polarizes in response to Your energy, creating a powerful magnetic field through its center. And now, as these very intense, newly created lines of flux reach into The Void and encounter Your active Spirit, the sphere begins rotating. Slowly at first and then, as You gradually increase the energy in Your fluttering, it begins spinning faster and faster until it achieves a predetermined velocity. And in that instant, when the conditions are optimal, You call loudly into the sphere, creating a potent sound wave that pressurizes the sphere, igniting it:

"LIGHT, BE!"

The Light begins to spread throughout this very great deep, illuminating the face of the sphere within and chasing out the darkness that can't help but retreat as it comes face to face with its energetic antithesis: Light.

This intense energy, which can only be present at this beginning, has also created an, "inverted hole," in the void that isolates the physical sphere, "inside," of it from the physical events that will soon be taking place, "outside," the hole, giving those events outside the needed duration necessary to correlate their maturing with the finalizing of Your creation.

A predetermined interval has now elapsed and You take a moment to examine what You've just called into being.
You name the retreating darkness, "Night," and the advancing light You name, "Day." You establish this division into a cycle, solemnizing this interval into an evening and a morning You call, "The First Day." And satisfied that all is as You intended, You say to Yourself,

"This is all good!"

Immediately, as the first interval ends and the next interval begins, You speak to the water again, causing another kind of reaction deep inside this colossal, rotating sphere. This time a thin, spherical layer of metallic hydrogen that You call The Raquia, begins to form above and around the central sphere, while being held concentric to it by the very intense magnetic field that You are maintaining. And as this Raquia forms, it divides the waters into two layers, separating the waters, "below," from the waters, "above." You then name the place above this, "vault," formed by The Raquia and spread out like an arch above the waters below, "The Heavens." And as another interval, another evening and morning come to an end, You again pause to look with satisfaction on what You've made and say among Yourself,

"This is all good!"

Now, plunging joyfully back into Your work, You speak, once more, to the waters below The Raquia causing them to, "fly together," to one place, thus uncovering, "The Dry Land." The confluence of waters that is below The Raquia You now call, "The Sea," and together with The Dry Land they comprise what You call, "The Earth," with a gaseous atmosphere that is wholly contained and pressurized within this Raquia—this remarkable shell that will act as a shield and a filter to protect The Earth and it's soon inhabitants, as well as playing an integral part in illuminating and reenergizing it.

At this point You no longer need to maintain Your prior energy output and so, because the magnetic field that originates from the now hot center of The Earth is sufficient to maintain The Raquia in place, You relax and the magnetic moment decreases rapidly to a level perfect for providing the energy needed to sustain the delicate work You can now undertake.

The inverted hole that was created and sustained by this energy now begins to collapse drawing the events, "outside," the hole into synchronization with the events, "inside."

Before moving on to the next step, though, You again pause to inspect all You've created and, again, You say to Yourself,

"This is all good!"

Now, while the still spreading light is giving its energy and illuminating all You've made thus far, You take the remainder of this day in speaking to The Dry Land causing it to sprout a great variety of herbs, with duplicating seeds in them, and fruit trees, with duplicating seeds in their fruit, each after its own kind. These will be the food for Your Children's bodies.

You also create an almost innumerable array of tender grasses and delicate, flowering plants and shrubbery, and grand, massive trees, all designed to astonish, delight, comfort and inspire Your Children with their beauty and variety. These things will become the food for Your Children's souls.

The pressurized water that is stored in the widespread network of underground caverns has now been heated sufficiently by The Earth's hot core and is now seeping up through the land to the surface and forming a temperate mist that will keep moist The Dry Land of The Earth, thus keeping these plants and trees well supplied with water. And so, flourishing in these ideal conditions, these begin their unchecked, but coinciding and complimentary cycles of growth.

This Third Day now comes to its end and before another begins You again examine all that You've made and say among Yourself,

"This is all good!"

Now, as the next day begins, You turn Your attention to the water above The Raquia that is spreading out from the center of this new Cosmos. Light has realized that singular thing called, "Time and Space." And so You begin this Day of work by stretching out this, "Space-Time," tensioning it like a fabric.

You then make, from the water above, two very different, but singular sources of light, arranging the lesser light of the two to be reflecting back to The Earth the greater light of the other. You also make, from the water, a truly uncountable number of very powerful but distant lights arranging all these lights, as You place them on this fabric, so that they will not only provide energy and illuminate The Earth, but will assist those who will soon dwell here in marking the passage of that singular, illusory effect that will come to be known as, "Time."

That unique inverted hole in which You are creating all this is shrinking exponentially in diameter. And, for this shrinking, it is now drawing the light from these stars rapidly toward the center where it will be available to The Earth when the shrinking reaches its perfectly timed vanishing.

Now, as The Fourth Day progresses to its end, Your Sons, who have been watching spellbound up to this point, suddenly erupt into a song and clap their hands with glee for seeing the beauty of the light in the Sun and Moon and all these stars, as well as these, "wandering stars," each set into its place to maintain The Earth in its place, hanging upon nothing.

Happily, You receive their joy as once more You inspect all You've made and say to Yourself,

"This is all good!"

Your creative energy is flowing freely now as The Fifth Day begins and You excitedly direct Your attention to The Sea. You're so delighted to finally be at the point where You can begin to utilize the chemistry that You put into The Earth to make all of the fantastic creatures You had dreamed of making as You were planning out this Creation.

Soon, The Sea is populated with all manner of life— from the gigantic whales and fishes and above them all, the awe-inspiring, fire-breathing, Leviathan, to the tiniest creatures that won't even be seen.

You then turn Your attention to The Earth's sky and, once more, You begin using the chemistry You put into The Earth to make, and then release into the sky, a vast number of fantastic birds as well as many types of huge, flying reptiles, creating them in pairs that You call, "Male and Female." And so, feeling a great satisfaction for the work You have done thus far, You joyfully enable, by command, all the creatures that You've made in pairs as male and female— creatures that live in the ocean and fly in the sky— to reproduce and fill The Earth with life; each kind mating with its own kind; life from life joined.

Your Work is nearing completion as this day, too, draws to a close and Your satisfaction is tremendous as You pause, once more, to examine all You've made and say among Yourself,

"This is all good!"

And so, The Sixth Day has now arrived. Excitedly You continue Your creative output by directing Your attention to The Dry Land— Here then, is where Your Children will soon dwell.

You begin this day by, once again, utilizing the chemistry of The Earth to make all kinds of wonderful, inspiring beasts, in all varieties of shape and all manner of sizes; from the massive, earth-shaking Behemoth down to all the tiniest and even invisible creatures, as well as an incredible variety of creeping things that will all co-exist in usefulness for Your Children. And so it will be that, even as all these creatures that You've made interact with each other, to their own mutual benefit, they will come to teach Your Children many of the things they will need to know about You, Themselves and The Elohim.

You sigh happily now as You pause from Your work for knowing what You plan to do next.

In six days' time You have created a beautiful, incredibly detailed, finely-tuned and intricately balanced Universe, designed not only to sustain Your children for ages upon ages of time, but to engross them in discovery and inspire them into the eons that lay ahead of them with all the wonders and mysteries that came from You and Wisdom in creating it.

"So, here it is, at last!" You say among Yourself, "The time for completion!"

The final hours of the sixth day have come. The moment is right. Everything has been prepared as now, with great anticipation and a feeling of great excitement, You bring forth, also from the chemistry of The Earth, the singular reason for all of Your Creation, Your first human son...

END OF PART ONE OF FOUR

[Eleutheros]

PART TWO OF FOUR

He is so like You in every way, both inside and out; the very Image of You. And yes, he's so handsome, so very beautiful. You heart swells with pride to see him lying there.
However, as yet he is unaware of his own existence. And for that, with Your emotions at their peak from anticipation, You impart to him— with love and companion joy in Your every Breath— a Rare and Incredible Gift, indeed; You give him of Your Own Spirit; You put into him Your Own Personal Life-Force— a Thing unknown to anything that You've ever made before.

He breathes deep now and stirs. And in him You see the deep desire of Your heart beginning to be fulfilled; in him You see the potential to, at last, have someone beyond Yourself who can receive all the goodness You have to give and whom will then willingly, and with gladness, choose to ahaba You and to appreciate You for Who You are and what You've accomplished in creating all this for them.

As his eyes flutter open, he sees You for the first time and, standing up, fully aware of Who You are, he immediately, joyfully, embraces You and Your heart thrills to feel his affection pouring out freely from his heart, like water, as You return his embrace.

You let the embrace linger, enjoying every second of it till Your heart begins to burst with the things You want to say. And so, breaking his embrace, You hold him at arm's length, looking straight into his eyes, and begin speaking to him, letting the sound of Your emotions spill from You with every word.

"My son!" You say, Your voice happy and proud, "I am giving you your name: You will be called, 'The Awdam!'"

"I give you this name because you were taken from the elements of The Earth and in you, by means of your blood-soul and My Spirit, Life and Self-awareness co-exist; You are truly a Living Soul!"

And, watching him as You speak, You see reflected in his face the appreciation and adoration he feels as awareness and comprehension become a part of him for this Precious Gift You've given—and You sigh, feeling deeply satisfied.

Your work is done. But it is not complete. The Universe and its Earth, as well as the reason for it all, The Awdam, exist. But there is still more to be done.

The canopy is dimming now, fading to the beautiful twilight that will endure till the sun rises again even as You and The Awdam, together, watch the end of The Sixth Day become the beginning of The Seventh. And grinning broadly You turn to him and, catching his eyes, You declare,

"This is all so good, so very good! Everything I intended to make is made! And as I look at it, I see that it is all very, very good!"

"Therefore, as this day comes to an end and a new day begins, I decree that this, The Seventh Day, is to be hallowed. It is to be a day set apart for all the eons to come. Six days you will work at tending this place, just as I will teach you, but, on The Seventh Day you will rest. Because, just as I took six days to create all of this, and am now going to rest from My work, spending this time of rest to commune with you, so shall you also do."

Thus, You begin his tutelage, even as You take Your own pleasure in his fresh excitement over all You have made, including himself.

~

You begin the dimmer, "night-time," of this, The First Sabbath Day, by communing with his soul through the Spirit You imparted to him, and begin teaching him, in detail, the language he will, in turn, teach to the others. You are pleased to watch as his comprehension increases exponentially. Soon, he begins verbalizing his thoughts and asking You a never ending stream of questions, all of which You answer, tirelessly, while teaching him about how and why he was created.
The hours of the night pass into day-time as You and he continue Your exchanges until, finally, he yields himself to that exquisite exhaustion brought on from the intense mental stimulation that has engaged him, as well as from the emotional excitement he's been experiencing, so that, by the end of the first Sabbath Day, with the sun setting and the canopy dimming, You smile at him as You watch him slip into his first sleep, delighted to be feeling Your pride in him; the deep, satisfying pride of a Father.

The Eighth Day has now come and You have something important to do. While he is still asleep, You turn Your attention to the eastern part of The Dry Land and, addressing Yourself to the free and chaotic growth, You execute your design for an inimitable, encompassed garden.

When You return, The Awdam, awakens and for feeling happy to see You again, he again embraces You. You return his embrace, gladly, as You say to Him, smiling broadly from the playful anticipation that You feel, "Come with me, The Awdam, I have something to show you!"

With the sun rising, the canopy above begins to brighten, filling The Earth with a diffuse, pink glow; a glow that enhances the beauty of everything it illuminates. And as You and he walk through the entrance of this garden together, You watch him as his eyes go wide with wonder. Pleased with his reaction You say to him, happily,

"I have created this garden, here, in the Eastern portion of The Dry Land just for you. All of The Dry Land I will now call, 'Eden,' for it sustains all of these delightful things I have made."

And as You walk with him and talk to him, telling him all about the things in this place, watching him with joy in Your heart as he takes it all in— hungrily tasting and then eating all You bid him to— You guide him to where there are two exceptional trees growing near the lush and inviting bank of a crystal clear river that is flowing from a lake to the North; a lake that is, itself, fed from the heated, subterranean waters. This lake, thus fed, has become the source of a life-giving river that runs through the center of the garden.

It is the same river that, outside the garden, divides into the Four Rivers that run through the rest of Eden.

You watch him as he takes notice that each of these two trees has a fruit that is amazingly different from all else he has seen hanging from the branches of the other trees. As You notice his marveling, You get his attention and he listens intently to You as You speak,

"Son, this tree, here, in the middle of this garden, is the Tree of the Knowledge of the Difference Between Good and Evil. Next to it is the Tree of The Living."

"Now, listen to me carefully; I have made all these things for you," You say, waving Your arm to encompass the whole garden, "The fruit of the seed bearing trees and the herbs of the field are for your food, as well as being the food for all the other animated creatures I have created. You may all eat as much as you desire, for there will always be plenty."

You pause here a second and draw a breath to emphasize the importance of what You are about to say. And as he turns from looking around at the garden to look at You, You meet his eyes and continue.

"But, of the fruit of this tree," You say, pointing to one of the trees and punctuating the air with Your finger, "The Tree of the Knowledge of the Difference Between Good and Evil, you may not eat its fruit."

You pause again, watching him, letting what You have just said fill his mind. And then, lowering Your arm, You continue.

"I can offer no other explanation to you at this time, than to say that in the day you eat of it you will cease to exist as you now are; for on the day that you eat if it, in dying, you will die."

Wonderingly, he gazes at You and You see in his eyes that he has no intention of doubting You. Still, You wonder to Yourself if this trust is strong enough to endure…

Reflecting, now, on this and why things must be done this way, You know that this fruit will do what You created it to do; it will impart to them the very knowledge You and all the Celestial Beings have of the difference between Good and Evil.

That is, it will create in them a conscience.

And thus, on the day that they eat of its fruit, their true but useless innocence will cease and they will no longer be who they now are. And for that, You also know that a time of testing is going to come, soon enough, even as You know of the jealousy that will be stirred in The Adversary when You give the dominion of this new creation to The Awdam, instead of he and the other Elohim.

But, what You don't know is what is, of course, truly unknowable; and that is the answer to the question: Will The Awdam choose to trust You when tested, even as You intend and thus be allowed to eat the fruit, afterward, with Your permission, letting their newly acquired virtue work with the fruit in awakening them? Or will they choose to gain this knowledge in disobedience, adulterating the necessary work of the fruit as it does what it was created to do? It is a risky and uncertain thing You are doing because You know that there is no going backward once this question is answered.

Therefore, You must hide from him, for now, the great personal risk You are taking on Yourself through this process because You know that for them to become virtuous, even as You, their Father, are virtuous, they must be completely free to choose. For there is that Truth that has always been with You and exists because of You; it is that same Truth that built goodness into the Cosmos and is a Truth that All will eventually come to know and appreciate—this Truth is that, innate to possessing the knowledge of the difference between Good and Evil is the responsibility to choose to be Good.

Therefore, You know what they are yet unable to comprehend; that for truthful innocence to acquire virtue, first, apart from the knowledge itself, it must be given a genuine choice; it must be put to a test.

Will they, then, prove themselves virtuous, through trust in You, and thus be in concord with Your desires for them? Or, will they choose to distrust You, when tempted to distrust, and turn away from You and gain the desired knowledge on their own, thus disrupting the world You intend for them to know?

This, then, is the only restriction that needs to be placed on them in order to accomplish their completion. Therefore, it is a restriction that, if respected, will ultimately prove to be their awakening to an understanding of the Universe equal to Your own in creating The Earth for them. An understanding that will allow them to commune with You at that level and to be deeply appreciative of everything You have done for knowing, intimately, Your own heart. This is the ultimate satisfaction for You and one that will prove to be nothing but goodness for them into all the ages of time. For You intend, from the Ahaba(1) that You are, one way or another, to give to All of them, flowing out like a river, all the Pleasures You have at Your Right Hand for all of the ages to come…

You sense him watching You, waiting. And so, stirred from Your reverie, You smile warmly as You lead him away from there. For the rest of this day You and he continue talking while walking through the garden.
As his sharp, new senses feed his hungry mind, he responds joyfully to all the things in this place, touching, smelling and tasting while listening intently to all the things You are saying. It pleases You, in a way that is new to You, to see The Awdam so delighted by the variety of foods You've created as both You and he partake of the bounty together. You smile at your own thoughts as you imagine the delight it will be to share meals with The Awdam once they learn how to combine the food to make new tastes, as well as making other kinds of food.
Now, with you feeling satisfied, and The Awdam feeling full, You and he seat yourselves against a tree as the twilight of this day arrives. The Awdam grows quiet.
Oh, the joy You feel! As You watch him continue to smile from the joy of the day even as the desire for sleep overtakes him. When he is asleep, You sigh out Your own pleasure and whisper a knowing thought toward him: Sleep well, my son. Tomorrow is going to be even better!

As the sun rises, so does The Awdam. And, after he eats some fruit, You and he continue your walk through the Garden. He continues asking You questions—however, You are now answering his questions with questions as You watch him closely for the signs.
It pleases You to perceive that his comprehension continues to increase even as You notice, gladly, that there is also a kind of sadness creeping into him; for as he turns to introspection for examining his own body, and his own thoughts, he becomes aware that he was made for something much more than just to walk and talk and eat and learn. You know very well what he is feeling for You have felt it Yourself; a longing, long unsatisfied; a desire to share Yourself with another that doesn't even yet exist.

"Father," he says, "I feel alone."

At last! Someone apart from You who feels as You do! Just as You had hoped! He has awakened to the desire You wanted him to feel! He knows what it's like to be only one — to be alone!

But preparing him to receive what You have in mind to satisfy this need will take more than just another creative effort. So, sitting him down, You say, barely able to keep Your excitement from quavering the sound of Your voice,

"Yes Awdam! You are alone. It is not good for you to be alone. So I am going to make for you an, ezer kenegdo."

You continue the awakening process by devoting the rest of this day to introducing him to all of the land animals and all of the flying animals. In their pairs, they come as You call. And as you present to him the first pair of land animals to arrive, blessing them to reproduce, You tell him to give each a name. The Awdam then begins to exercise his use of language and thought, creating a name that reflects what delights him the most about each of these blood-soul animals You present to him.

He becomes deft at this as You bring each pair to him and, as he gets to know them, he gives each a unique name derived from his perceptions. And so, the hours of this day fly by as the place becomes filled with lingering animals, surrounding him and delighting him, even as they are delighted to be close to their new master. But, the final hours of this day are closing, and as the Raquia continues to dim, You see that Ish is becoming tired.

There are many more creatures to name, but there is no hurry, So, You bring Ish some food while he continues enjoying his interactions with his new subjects. And, when he has eaten and is full, he slips easily into his needed sleep.

This part of the awakening process continues for several more days till You finally tell him that all the creatures have been named. And as You tell him this he remembers what You said at the beginning and looks at You questioningly.

"Father," he asks, "You have created all these wonderful things in pairs, calling them Male and Female. You have made each with a mate that is fitted to the other. Yet I am made Male and I have no mate. Is this why I still feel alone?"

"Yes, it is!" You say, overwhelmingly satisfied with his response. "And now that you are aware of this and know that nothing now here is suitable to be A Strength Equal To You, you also know that I have always intended to create for you a Female to meet that need. I am now going to draw her from you and, from out of your own body, I will fashion for you your mate.

"Sleep now, My son and when you awaken you will discover the one I have in My heart to make just for you."

You then cause a stupor to descend upon him and as he is lying on the soft grass, You take one from among his curves, healing to new the needed wound. Then, by closing flesh under her, You build the curve into a human Female— A singular being of unsurpassed beauty among all You've made.

She is Your daughter, yes, and ravishingly beautiful. But, she is also Your son's sister. Therefore, she is, of truth, his Counterpart, that is, A Help Against Him; she is his well-fitted equal and his mate.

She is the final, dazzling act! The shining crown of glory on all of Your creation! A being of unparalleled grace and symmetry—soft to touch and rapturous to behold! She has an intellect equal to her brother, yet, with a perception that is the converse of and therefore, complimentary to his. Her inner heart and her outer beauty is inspiring. And will inspire, even as You intend.

You have also given into her soul the stronger desires. Desires that will impart to her an eagerness to please and to be pleasing, as well as creating in her a deep need to be known—desires that will lead them both to discover the emotions of pleasure that are intended to bond them together, intimately, even as You, their Father, are bonded together among Yourself.

For passed on through that curve taken from her brother, Ish, she has also received Your Breath, Your Life-Force, Your Spirit.

And now, as she begins to breathe on her own, she awakens and she, too, is fully aware of who You are and who she is. And, upon seeing You, recognition comes. She rises and pours out her affection in an all-enveloping embrace, which You joyously return.

Deeply satisfied now to see all You've planned and hoped for coming to fruition You reluctantly, but gently end the embrace and taking her by the shoulders, looking deeply into her eyes, You say, with a marveling sigh at the beauty of Your creation,

"My daughter… Such beauty—My daughter, there is someone I would like you to meet!"

You turn her gently around to see Awdam still asleep. When Your daughter sees Ish lying there, she gasps for recognizing him as one of her own kind, yet… different… and so she watches intensely as You step over to him and begin to rouse him from his sleep. She follows behind and standing behind You she watches, intent and silent.
Aroused from sleep he sees You first, as he awakes, and smiles for remembering Your words. Then, looking around while standing up, he finds this being similar to him, yet very different, standing behind You, but staring passionately at him.

Their eyes meet and suddenly his heart leaps!

And as she steps from behind You to take him in fully, eyeing him up and down, Ish, seeing, for the first time, that wide, appreciative look of admiration reflected in her eyes, recalls the words You spoke and exults, spontaneously, in a joyful and insightful double-entendre as You present her to him:

"This one, the once bone from the bones of me
and flesh from the flesh of me,
built into this one,
shall be called—Ishsha!
For from Ish she was taken!"

Delighted now to see their joy You reveal to them all You have in Your heart.

"Now," You tell him, "you are complete! This one you now call Ishsha, your sister, I give to you as your wife. She is fit well to you and will benefit you and complement you; she is your ezer kenegdo.(2) 

"So, listen now, my son and my daughter, to what I have to say. I have split the Essence of Myself between you and between you have given you My ability to create new and Living Souls. Therefore, for the cause of this very powerful Sexuality I have created in you and in order for all things to be kept in order, your male children, when they come of age, must leave their father and mother and each man of you will take a sister to wife. And for his clinging in her they will become One flesh, knowing each the other."

"I now give you two the reign over all I have created!"

END OF PART TWO OF FOUR

[Eleutheros]

PART THREE OF FOUR

"All the creatures in the oceans and all the creatures on the land and in the air are yours. Rule them well."

"Learn about each other and when the time is right, you will bear children. Fill The Earth, then, with your offspring and even now, beginning with your wife, my son, teach them well all I have taught you."

You then watch as naked before You, they embrace, for the very first time, freely and unashamedly finding themselves in an easy kiss.

You watch them proudly as each moment swells with joy. The happy sounds of the garden and the glad Celestial Music, like ethereal wind chimes, are all any hear as sight and touch and response become, for them, the focus of everything that needs to be known, right now.

The canopy is dim now, with evening coming on. Your own joy at the soul-satisfying wonder and beauty You've created mounts till it must be expressed. You break in on the new lover's intense, arousing silence, beaming broadly with Your own expression of delight.

"This is all so good! Everything is as I intend! And as I see it at last before Me, I see that it is all very, very good!"

Turning at the sound of Your voice to look at You, with gratitude in their hearts for You and with love in their eyes for each other, You continue speaking to them.

"Go now and find sleep," You say, admiring the look's that are passing between them, "together."
Begin your life, now, by learning from the pleasure I have created for you to know. I will be gone when you awake, but I will visit you, often. Go now and discover each other."

~

Here now, at the beginning, everything has started grandly! You peek in on them lovingly, like any proud Father, delighted as they begin their days together tending to the garden. Ish is teaching her what he has learned. But, he is learning still more from in himself for the insightful things that Ishsha shares from her heart, even as she, too, finds herself  learning from the things in her own self that are responding to the things Ish shares from his heart. They laugh and giggle with easy delight at each revealed self-discovery, naturally responding to each other's heart with an admiration that is uniquely their own, and which is emotionally satisfying, for both of them, in its expression.

The work is a necessary thing that they happily do, side by side, to keep things orderly, but, it is easy enough work and with its own inherent satisfaction; for everything—all the animals and all the trees and all the plants, each of them desiring their new master's touch—is elated to be in their presence. The rest of their time each day is spent playing and swimming and resting, or experimenting and exploring, tasting all You have made and seeing that You are Good.

And just like it is that to be human means that play follows work, so desire follows touch. Thus it is often that they find themselves spending time learning what it means to be Husband and Wife as they eagerly and joyfully and with an increasing adeptness at each new joining, learn new ways of giving pleasure to and receiving pleasure from each other.

And as the days accumulate You begin spending even more time with them, most every day now, walking and talking with them, thrilled as You listen to them telling You of all the wonders they have found. You feel immense satisfaction to see their happiness as they share with You their excitement in discovery for investigating everything You made and learning from it till they are exhausted.

Feeling satisfied then, as the sun sets at the beginning of each new day, they lay next to each other, head on chest or holding hands, deeply in love and truly innocent and free as they watch, together, the beautiful, brightly lit, pink sky slowly dimming while the ever-bright stars come out to tell their story in the subtle twilight that will last till dawn.

They listen to the enchanting Celestial Music that filters through to them, mingling with the conversations of the evening creatures and filling the air everywhere with beautiful, ever-changing sounds as they turn, first the one and then the other, to see that the love they feel is reflected in their companion's face. And gazing intensely into each other's eyes, one thought following another as touch and response once more guides them on, they deftly arouse each other into ecstasy before, once more, falling asleep in the soft, comfortable grasses of the Garden of Delights that You planted right in the middle of the place You call The Earth, set, itself, as the center of an intricate and boundless Universe that You created just for them.

~

You are aware that The Accuser, Your adversary, the one from among the Elohim that sit on Your Council, the same one who first tested Your authority in the Time Before, is on the prowl. You know of his hatred for You and of his jealousy for Your putting The Awdam in charge of this creation and, for that, You know that this will lead him to try to destroy what You have created in The Awdam by finding a way to tempt Your children to distrust You. A thing that You dread, but know must be allowed to happen.

Therefore, knowing that The Awdam will only have one chance at trusting You and thus reject the temptation to distrust, an act of faith in You that will come to sustain them and their eventual offspring in this place for all time, more aware than they can now imagine—You reflect, along with Wisdom, on Your Contingency Plan; a viviparous Plan that involves Yourself as its Key Player and Executioner; a Plan that will annul the work of The Adversary—should he succeed—and enable them all, one by one, to be completed, just as You intend them All to be from this, the beginning. It is wisdom to contemplate this Contingency Plan because You know that if The Awdam do succumb, they will All then be conceived and born incomplete and enslaved to Sin, unable—and unwilling—to do anything about it themselves.

Yes, that day eventually arrived, as You knew it would. And through the calculated deception of the enemy of their souls, they are put to the test... and fail.

~

"Where are you, Ish?" You call, while visiting them in the winded cool of this day... but there is no answer.

You call again.

"Awdam! Where are you?!?"

But still, there is no answer and You perceive that The Awdam are hiding. They've never done this before and so You begin to wonder if the time of testing had come. You keep on calling, knowing that they will soon have no choice but to show themselves; for You are not going away till they do.

When they do finally step from behind a tree into the glade where You can see them, You see immediately that something terrible has happened. The glow that emanated from inside of them is gone! And the pitiful thing of leaves that they have covered their thighs with arouses a sense of dread in You that you had hoped You would never feel.

"What is this you are wearing?" You ask, incredulously. "Why are you covering yourselves and hiding from Me?"

Your son hesitates as he answers. And as You witness the conflict in his pained expression You comprehend that he is experiencing, for the first time, a new kind of fear. Not the exciting adrenal-fear that comes from doing something dangerous or daring, which feeling, You have noted, Your son loves, but a fear of the Truth.

Does he want to lie? But, as he begins to speak with one answer to Your questions, his words coming forth painfully and slowly, You hear the awful but truthful answer that You had hoped You would never hear.

"I heard You calling... but... I am afraid... because... because I am naked."

Only the work of the fruit, corrupted, could elicit this kind of response! He must have eaten it... If he did, then he is alive to knowing of the difference between Good and Evil. Which means his innocence is gone, dead and gone! But, instead of a powerful conscience possessing a powerful will to do good being created in them, as I intended, a deficient and corrupted conscience can only be, now, what he has to pass on.

And so You query him, as spontaneously as Your thoughts, hoping against what must be the truth:

"Did someone from among the Elohim instruct you that you were naked? Or—did you eat the fruit from that one tree that I instructed you not to eat from?"

You watch as your son's face turns from frustration and shame to an angry simmer. And for this new kind of anger that is churning in him he finds that he's not willing to admit anymore truth to You. So, turning to his left he points a finger at his wife and, with a low voice, terse and uncomfortable, he says,

"This... Ishsha that You gave to be with me, she gave me of the fruit that she plucked from the tree saying, "See! I didn't die!" and then she ate of it... and then... she gave it to me..." His voice trails off and his hand slowly drops as he suddenly recalls, afresh, what Your exact words to him were, long ago. "And I... I... I took it from her... and ate it."

Your heart breaks in two. Distrust has infected the work of the fruit and so Sin has been introduced into this Universe. Shame and guilt is what they will now know, not freedom and liberty. Your good intentions for them and their offspring will, now, not become fully realized till much has been sacrificed and several aeons have passed.

Sadly then, You turn to Your daughter and ask, gently, "Is this true what he says? Tell me, what have you done?"

Now, glaring at her brother, her husband and her lover, she is stung to the core of her being by the rejection she now feels. And experiencing, for the first time, fear from abandonment for having her guilt exposed like this, tears well in her eyes. And, answering You through these new kind of tears, bitter tears caused by these new and unpleasant emotions rising in her—emotions that are cutting her deeply for the helplessness she feels—she angrily refuses to allow all the blame on herself declaring, in truth;

"I was deceived! I told The Nachash what You said, that we were not to eat of the fruit, nor were we to even touch it, because You said that we would die on the day that we did! The Nachash then beguiled me with his words. Then, when I plucked one from the tree and didn't die, I ate of it and held it out to Ish." Then, turning to face her accuser she adds, icily, "He then took itfrom me and ate from it!"

Your heart sinks from the words You have just heard because now it is filled with heaviness from knowing what You must now do. The entire Universe and especially this Earth that You labored on with all Your heart, must now be sacrificed to their redemption.
The fruit has done its work.
They are no longer innocent but are now aware, even as You are aware of the difference between Good and Evil. But, sadly, they have acquired this knowledge without, first, acquiring virtue.

The final work then, that Your permission would have made pure, is now adulterated. They know that they cannot go back, and why they cannot go back, even as You do.

END OF PART THREE OF FOUR

[Eleutheros]

PART FOUR OF FOUR

But first, for feeling a good, righteous anger arising in You from the frustration You now feel, You call to The Nachash, the accomplice and associate of The Adversary. He has been standing nearby, You noticed, with a look of triumph reflected in his eyes, watching gleefully as You discover his handiwork unfolding before him. And grinning widely from his success, he walks up to You, pleased and defiant.

You speak. And as You speak, Your son and daughter watch, horrified, as Your Word transforms him before their very eyes.

"Because you have done this," You say grimly, and full of anger, "you are cursed above all the creatures I have created!"

The Nacash feels himself diminishing as the bright, shining glory of an Elohim vanishes, leaving him mortal. Its head and mind now shrink to less than a quarter its size and its legs and arms shrink to nothing, even as You speak.

"You will crawl upon your belly from now on!"

Its tongue, the thing that targeted the temptation to Your daughter, changes into a forked, slithering, grotesque caricature as You finish Your curse.

"And you will eat dust into the ages!"

And now, while watching this snake writhing under Your curse, You take a deep breath as You prepare to execute Your Contingency Plan.

Turning now to look at Your son and daughter, You catch their petrified gaze. They now stare at You, dumbfounded, as You look straight into their eyes while addressing Your words to the now slithering snake—as well as to The Adversary, whom You know can hear.

"HEAR ME!" You say, Your Voice loud and declarative, "I will put enmity between you and Ishsha and between your seed and her Seed. You will strike at His heel, but after, HE WILL TURN AND STOMP YOUR CURSED HEAD INTO THE DUST!"

"...Into the dust!" The words echo through the garden, fading into silence.

Silence. Unnatural, eerie, silence. For the very first time there is utter silence in the garden, as if the Cosmos itself were stunned to hear Your Word. And as You listen long to the silence, You force Yourself to relax and let Your anger dissipate as You breathe out a long, long sorrowful sigh, knowing full well what You have just committed Yourself to doing.

But, it's not over. For now comes, for You, the hardest part.

With little tears welling in Your eyes that You don't want to stop from trickling down Your cheeks for the sadness You feel, and that because of the terror You now see in Your children's faces as they fix their wide-eyed gaze upon You, You begin to speak to them, pronouncing very hard, but necessary words over them, words that, ultimately, are for their own good and to their own benefit, given what they now are, uncompleted. For with these words You will inform them of what they can expect, from now on, as well as delaying—for now, till You can realize Your Plan—the outcome of their sinning that will likely lead You to have to lay waste to this Earth, also.

"My daughter," You say somberly, "I am now going to enable you to conceive. However, because of what has happened to you, I must now greatly increase the difficulty you will experience in your pregnancies. You must now give birth accompanied by dreadful and anguishing spasms of pain. And, because of your turning, the satisfaction you sought for and found in your husband will now turn against you, frustrating you, because your desires are intimately linked to your husband's needs and because of this, he will now rule over you."

Sadly then, as You finish speaking these words, You and Ish watch as she puts her head into her hands and bitterly, uncontrollably, sobs aloud. It's rending Your heart to watch the realization dawning on her for what she has done, but, You must maintain Your composure as You turn to Your son, who turns from looking woefully at his wife to look at You and say, when his eyes meet Yours;

"Because you did not listen to Me to do what I said, but listened to the voice of your wife, I am going to curse The Earth for your benefit. It will no longer be responsive to you but will, instead, frustrate you. You will have to extract your sustenance from it through hard, backbreaking labor for it is now become to you an adversary. You will therefore work hard all your life, just for you, your wife and your children to have bread to eat. And when you die, for you will now most certainly die, you will All return to the soil from which I made you."

The necessary words now spoken, Your son hangs his head for understanding the bitterness he must now endure and You watch him, knowingly, as quietly, silently and secretly, he fights against his own tears.

Yet, even now... even now... with all that has just happened, You look at them hopefully as Ish embraces his sobbing Ishsha. And in a moment of tenderness, with love and sympathy in his heart for the realization of what these words will mean to his precious wife, he says, in a low and only slightly broken voice,

"Take courage, my love! For you now have your name. You will be called 'Chava'; for from you will All Life Spring."

Now, watching them and feeling optimism and purpose rise in Your heart for what You are witnessing, You allow the moment to pass before you must speak again.

"Children!" You now say to them, sadly enough, as a command, "Come closer."

At the sound of Your voice, reality comes flooding back on them and they raise their heads to look at You. And as they obey, breaking their embrace to walk toward You, they avoid looking at each other as they try, unsuccessfully, with one sad thought following another, to wipe their tears away on their own even as they realize, with despair, that they have only each other to comfort them.

They then see, as they approach, coming from behind You, two of Your most darling and innocent creations; two beautiful, soft, woolly rams. And as they pause and gaze at them a small smile plays upon their lips as their minds are filled with remembering the play they had, chasing them around the little hills... and when the rams decided to stop running and let themselves be caught, how wonderful it felt to bury their faces in the soft wool... and how their funny, bleating sounds made them laugh. They remembered also how sometimes they would lie next to any one of them, tired from a morning's work, napping against their soft bellies...

"Watch me children, now and learn!" You say, unwilling to hide the harshness You hear in Your own voice for knowing what You must now do. As they obey and watch, You stoop down and dig up a large piece of flint. And finding a rock You strike at it repeatedly against another rock, till it has a sharp edge on it and a rudimentary handle. Your children continue watching You in unknowing anticipation as You walk up to the first young ram, which looks up at You, his Maker, trustingly.

You see your children's eyes go wide and their mouths drop open in stupefied horror as they watch You drop down on one knee and quickly grabbing the ram's head with one hand, You pull it back sharply while, in the same motion, You take the knife that is in Your other hand and with its terrible, jagged cutting edge, You quickly saw open wide the throat of the ram.

You then drop the knife and using both hands, You gently but firmly hold it close to You while holding its head back as it writhes, it's precious, dark-red blood-soul silently spewing... then spurting, then bubbling out... staining, forever, the floor of the once pristine Earth.
When the blood-soul is drained and this ram is dead, You gently, with sorrow apparent in Your every move, lay it down and then, picking up the tainted knife, You walk purposely up to the other and do the very same thing to it.

And as this one's blood-soul spills out onto the ground You tell Your children, grimly "I must be the One to make for you a suitable covering because you cannot adequately cover yourselves. Learn from this to sacrifice, for your sake, for the sins which you will commit."
And taking the dead animals, You skin them as Your children watch, each now standing frozen in shock to see this bloody carnage while experiencing a gut-tearing, nascent guilt for knowing that they are to blame.

As they watch, You clean and fashion the skins into the needed girdles and handing them to Your son and daughter, You say, "This is what you need to wear from now on. Go and put them on."

As they accept the skins from You, their bodies now responding mechanically to Your words, the reality of what they have lost begins to fully impact their minds.
And so You notice, after receiving the girdles, as they turn away from You, that they move apart from each other with each hiding behind a tree, seemingly grateful to be alone as they clumsily learn to put them on.

When they return, ugly in their unnatural coverings, they overhear You talking among Yourself and stopping nearby, but not to near, waiting subdued for You to address them, they listen intently as You talk.

"Yes," they hear You say, "they are like Us now, knowing of the difference between Good and Evil... but, now, having been turned, if they should be allowed to reach for and continue to eat the fruits of the Tree of The Living and thus live throughout the ages..."

You then turn suddenly to them and say, "Children! You must leave this garden! You can never be allowed to enter it again!"

And as You walk deliberately toward them, noting surprise and... yes... yes... the look, also, of a new and virulent idea dawning in their faces for comprehending what they have overheard, You grab them each by a shoulder and turning them around, You push them ahead of You, driving them out. And as You pass out of the entrance to the garden, Mawlak guards suddenly appear and a terrible, wondrous, gleaming sword, turning every which way, appears also, blocking the entrance and striking tremendous fear into the hearts of Adam and Eve so that they and anyone else, will never dare to approach the entrance to this now forbidden garden and eat, again, of The Tree of The Living, for as long as this aeon must endure.

Silence is thick in the air as they stand before You with downcast eyes, occasionally turning to catch flinching glimpses of the now guarded entrance behind them. You watch them unwaveringly as they also raise their eyes to catch glimpses of You, seeming to hope in their quick expressions that You will just go away. You let the silence hang for their benefit, to give them time to let the realization of what has just happened settle fully into them.

Your own thoughts are reflecting on the great sadness of this day because Your intentions have been thwarted—just as You know they will be again—but, only to the furthering of the purpose for which You created Your Children. You turn that thought over in Your mind as You consider, once again, how You plan to use the predictable, hateful antagonism of The Adversary against him to annul the very work he accomplished here today and bring about Your Children's restoration.

"This is not the end." You finally whisper out loud among Yourself, breaking the silence.

They hear You and raise their heads to look at You and so You catch their eyes and speak to them through that great sadness that is lingering in Your heart for feeling the loss caused by this disruption of what You intended... and for what You must now do to reclaim their future.

"My Children," You say as You begin to convey Your now realized intentions to them, "You have been awakened to knowing of the difference between Good and Evil. However, now you must struggle to heed this conscience that is in you so that you will do what is right. And so, remember and contemplate what I said to the snake and pass My words onto your children, teaching them to trust in Me and to resist sin and to make sacrifice, for their benefit, as a reminder, even as I have taught you. For without a blood-soul sacrifice, no pardon can be given for sin. And know this; you are aware of your own selves because of My Spirit within you, and so, through that same Spirit, and now, for your awakening, I can now know the thoughts in your heart and in the hearts of all of your children."

"The eons were made for you to inhabit; All of you. And I will bring restoration. Know, then, that I am with you always—unto the end and beyond all of the ages that must now come to pass."

"This is not the end."

~

Dedications and Acknowledgements

I dedicate this retelling of the very first story to my very good, "friends," George MacDonald, C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, who first got me thinking. And to my own precious wife, Molly, who encourages me and inspires me and pleases me—and counters me when its needed. God knows, I love you.

I also extend my heartfelt gratitude to Michael S. Heiser, professor of Ancient Hebrew. His writings provided the missing knowledge that pulled everything together when he introduced me to The Divine Council.

And to you as well, "Doc." I am ever grateful for your taking the time to argue with me from your unserstanding and for introducing me to Dr. Heiser's writings. I learned a lot from you.

Additionally, extra special thanks, with much appreciation, is given to Dr. Carl Baugh of the Creation Science Museum in Glenn Rose, Texas for his inspiring Creation in Symphony video series. His series provided much of the science background necessary to comprehend the beginning of all things.

Dr. Russell Humphreys, I humbly thank you, too, sir, for providing the amazing answer to The Question That Needed Answering The Most through your own unique understanding of Genesis which you eloquently explained in your beguiling book, Starlight and Time.

To Dena The Dangerous, who knows how to ask questions. My thanks are profound for your inspiring me to believe that there are answers. I miss you. To Tabitha R., who was the first, apart from family, to read this; I thank you deeply for the encouragement you gave into me through your heart-felt reaction to these words. To John Eldridge, who writes from the heart; truly you have understanding. My own heart is in your words. To my super-special Sis, Robin H., who just, simply, "gets it." Thank you for... everything!

Be good, then, my friends, just as you were created to be!


-Dennis!

First draft completed October 5th, 2005. This revision completed February 9th, 2017.

End Notes

(1) "Ahaba" is one of several Hebrew words that were translated with, "love," in the King's English. I choose this word, in its feminine form, because Jehovah Elohim Himself often used it to describe His love for human beings. Also, it was reciprocally used by humans themselves, in many instances, to describe their love for Jehovah. I also choose it because its Hebrew meaning is correlated with that aspect of love that English labels with the words, "affection" and "fondness" and thus parallels the meaning John the apostle intended when he wrote, in Greek, "God is agape."
Hebrew and Greek, unlike English, can assign a gender to nouns, with Greek adding a neutral gender choice. English is, unfortunately, a wholly gender-neutral language, and so there is an inherent loss of meaning for not being able to translate a noun into its original masculine or feminine or neutral form. Also, the word, "love," does a lot of work in English and so its meaning is highly contextualized. This makes it far too unspecific when used in the translations of languages that have idea-specific words for any of the many aspects of love that English covers with that one word.
The Greeks have five words for, "love." Biblical Hebrew uses nine words, with some words being derived from others. Thus, a writer in those languages can easily convey a specific aspect of love to the reader of that language that English would rely on context and familiarity to achieve. Therefore, when I contemplated this passage, I choose the Hebrew word for, "fondness," and, "affection," to accurately convey the heart of Jehovah for His creation, not only because I perceive that it is contextually correct to do so, but, also because it gave me a chance to explain its use in a footnote made necessary because of the limitations inherent in the King's English; limitations that are responsible for many losses in meaning and many misunderstandings of both the intentions and of the personality of Jehovah; serious losses that began in the Latin Vulgate and were thusly carried over into the Geneva Version and then into the King James Version of Holy Writ.

(2) "Ezer kenegdo" is very difficult to translate into English. "A Help, meet for him," with the Old English meaning for meet, that is, "precisely matched," is the first English translation. But, even that is insufficient. Unfortunately, as time has progressed, the meaning has been further insulated from understanding because of modern translations rendering this phrase as, "A help-mate," seeming to imply that the woman holds a somewhat inferior position. But, inferior is certainly not what Jehovah had created Ishsha and her sisters to be! The phrase has been translated by the ancient Jewish sage, Rashi, to read, "A help against him" He then explains this by saying, "If Adam is worthy, then she will be a help [ezer]. If he is not worthy, then she will be against him [kenegdo] for strife." This ancient translation holds truth well while, at the same time, modern archeological work indicates that, "A strength (or power) equal to him," is also an equally valid interpretation of ezer kenegdo.
The best single English word we have, then, that can sum up this remarkable creation is that she is his "Counterpart" with its dual idea that she is, "uniquely fitted," to be both his, "complement," and his, "foil," an "Help" or an "Adversary," benefiting him and herself, either way, simply by being herself. This was intended to hold true in all areas of their combined being; the spiritual, the intellectual, the emotional and most especially in the area where all these things intersect, the sexual.
The Woman is, indeed, a strength equal to The Man, but, nonetheless, it was she who was created for him, not the other way around. This fact makes the second part of the words pronounced over Chava by Jehovah Elohim to read more like a prediction. For when she and Ish allowed themselves to be turned by the words of The Nachash, which were targeted at her heart through what her adding to Jehovah Elohim's words revealed about her thoughts, the good desire in her to be an ezer kenegdo for Ish was then turned into a dependency (which leads to frustration) on Ish, who is now, himself, a frustrated and fearful man with a very real curse to deal with on his satisfaction, The Earth.
One need only look at the fatal history of women, subjected by their desires to the contrariness of the equally sinful men in this world, as well as their own ages-old and livid response to their mistreatment, Feminism, to see how horribly distorted the beautiful reality has become of shared and equal rule that Jehovah Elohim intended for us to exercise, together, as Husbands and Wives, over each other and over Creation.

END OF PART FOUR OF FOUR

END OF CREATION HYMN

[Abigail]

Thanks for writing and sharing, Dennis. It's captivating and breath-taking. I still need to ponder somewhat more on it!

[Eleutheros]

Thanks for writing and sharing, Dennis. It's captivating and breath-taking. I still need to ponder somewhat more on it!

Thank you, Abigail, for the good words. They are appreciated.

Please know that I welcome inquiries and questions, especially questions. So, ponder away! And if you wish, perhaps we can have a dialogue.

Be good!

[Abigail]

Well, yes, I do have a question.
Your view on the Tree of Knowledge is very new to me, yet it spoke to my heart. Until now I have heard the following explanations:
- the Tree was placed there to give mankind a choice, yet God did not want him to eat from it
- the Tree was placed there because it was necessary mankind would sin, so God actually purposed they would eat from it

I was wondering were you got the view you describe in the Hymn. Was that something from your heart, like a revelation? Or does it spring from traditional interpretations, maybe from the Jewish people? Or something else?

[Eleutheros]

Well, yes, I do have a question.

Greetings Abigail!

Please accept my apologies for the lateness of this reply. I discovered that I had not enabled notifications on this topic and so I couldn't know you had responded till I signed on.

Abigail, you stated:

Your view on the Tree of Knowledge is very new to me, yet it spoke to my heart. Until now I have heard the following explanations:

- the Tree was placed there to give mankind a choice, yet God did not want him to eat from it

- the Tree was placed there because it was necessary mankind would sin, so God actually purposed they would eat from it

I thank you for stating that what I wrote spoke to your heart. I am humbled.

As to the explanations given, I too was taught them, and believed them. Until I began asking questions based on these explanations and received curt replies from the rude ones and empathetic replies from the ones who knew I was asking logical questions, but could provide me with no answer.

To be succinct, the first explanation comes from the Armininan folks who hold that God knew - as a fact and in advance - that The Awdam would fall before he Created them. But, God knew that it was necessary to give them a choice, anyway, because freewill must have a choice to choose from, even though He did not want them to do what He knew they would do. Then He could use that freewill to redeem as many of them as possible... well as many of them as He knew, from before the foundation of the world was laid, would let themselves be redeemed. The rest must be consigned to hell for eternity, which must sadden God, but He did give them a choice, after all.

The second explanation comes from the Augustinian folks who hold that, because God knew as a fact that The Awdam was going to fall before He created them, He must have intended for them to fall, indeed it must have been necessary for them to fall so God could carry out his purpose in creating us in the first place, to whit, our redemption... well a relatively few of us, anyway, chosen, it would seem, by Him, for redemption from before the foundation of the world was laid. The rest, according to traditional Augustinianisim, were consigned to hell from before they were born and were to be used as His tools to redeem the ones He choose to be redeemed. These un-chosen ones have no legitimate complaint before God concerning this consignment because no one can argue with God.

As you can see, apart from a belief in an eternal hell of conscious torment, forever separated from God, the logic that drives their explanations begins with the belief that God knew, as a fact and before He created them, that The Awdam were going to fall.

But, what if God didn't fore-know as a fact before He created them that The Awdam were going to turn?

Abigail, "What if?"

~

Abigail asked,
I was wondering were you got the view you describe in the Hymn. Was that something from your heart, like a revelation? Or does it spring from traditional interpretations, maybe from the Jewish people? Or something else?

So, let me ask you a question, Abigail: Do you believe that Jehovah knew The Awdam were going to fall before He created them? If so, what scriptures can you point to that seem to indicate this is something we should believe?

If not, then why don't you believe this, apart from those very scriptures?

The scriptures are Revelation 13:8 and 17:8

Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 17:8  The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

It is very hard to argue the point that God could not have known, as a fact, that the Awdam were going to fall before he created them. For these scriptures, coming to us via King James' translation, seem to indicate that God knew (as a fact?) that Jesus was going to have to be sacrificed before He even laid the foundations of the earth; and that there are names, apparently the names of the redeemed, who had their names written into this Book of Life also before God ever laid the foundations of the earth.

Like I said, it is very hard to argue my contention given those scriptures. Yet, the more I studied Genesis, the more I realized how bereft of the power to explain were those two explanations. That is to say, reading Genesis with either of those two beliefs in my heart left me frustrated and confused and yes, angry, because there is no sense to be made of Genesis if it is indeed a truth that God knew as a fact that The Awdam were going to turn before He created them. Indeed there is no sense to be made of anything God did after the fall, if He already knows, as a fact, what's going to happen before it happens.

In fact, a literal reading of Genesis kept leading me away from what I was taught.

Fast forward many years to my reading The Magician's Nephew for the first time when I was in my late twenties. In it C.S. Lewis suggested that permission to eat the apple would have affected the outcome of eating the fruit from the Apple Tree grown from a Narnian apple.

A lot of clicking happened in my brain with that concept.

After some other similar encounters, which led me to learn how to use bible study tools, I discovered something quite extraordinary, I discovered that the King James Version is not a very good translation! In fact, it's quite unreliable at conveying the meaning in the original languages because of the heavy bias that, historically speaking, produced it: that bias is Calvinism.

So, in turning my attentions to the verses I quoted above, I eventually discovered that the word translated, "foundation" was deliberately mistranslated! That particular error began with the first official Latin translation, which not coincidentally coincided with the rising popularity of Augustine's fatalistic, Johnny-Come-Lately theology. (A few facts: Augustine lived from 354-430 and the Latin Vulgate was completed in 405. Famously, Augustine is reported to have said that he hated Greek. Historically, before the rise of Augustine's theology, it was "Universalisim," that is, the belief in the salvation of all human beings through Jesus Christ, that was the defacto understanding of the first through third century Christians.)

Now, in Koine Greek, katabole no more means "foundation" than the phrase "throwing down" means "foundation" in English. In fact, if you wish to convey the idea of "foundation" in Greek, whether it be Koine Greek or Modern Greek, you would use the word themelios, which is a word used numerous times in the Bible and always means exactly what English means in its word, "foundation."

Simply put, katabole means, literally, "down-throwing;" quite an opposite idea from "foundation."

So, the question is begged, if John knew that themelios meant in Greek what we mean when we write "foundation," then why didn't he use that word if that was what he intended to convey? Why did he choose katabole instead of themelios? Why? because "foundation" was not the idea he wished to convey as he wrote!

There are modern words in English that we derive from the Greek prefix kata which convey the idea of the breaking down of something: In biology we coined the word "catabolize" to describe the process of a cell breaking apart molecules to be digested as food, and, using the Greek prefix, we created the word "cataclysm" which describes the destruction caused by a sudden down-flow of a large quantity of water. The connotation in Greek words where kata occurs always indicates a transition "down" from a higher (organized, intentional) to a lower (disorganized, unplanned) state. Therefore, in English, the prefix "cata" also carries a similar idea.

It seems that the best English word to sum up what katabole really means is "disruption." Indeed A.E. Knoch, a Greek Scholar whose Concordant Literal Version of the scriptures (CLV) is often quoted here on Tentmaker, uses that very word in his translation of Rev 13:8 and 17:8:

Rev 13:8 And all who are dwelling on the earth will be worshiping it, everyone whose name is not written in the scroll of life of the Lambkin slain from the disruption of the world.

Rev 17:8 The wild beast which you perceived was, and is not, and is about to be ascending out of the submerged chaos, and to be going away into destruction. And marvel shall those dwelling on the earth, whose names are not written on the scroll of life (kept Ed.) from the disruption of the world, when they observe the wild beast, seeing that it was, and is not, and will be present.

What's in a word? Everything you wish to say... and have others believe to be the truth.

~

So, Abigail, if Knoch and I are right, then there is no original language scripture that can support the two explanations given because there is no other scripture that can lead one to the conclusion that God knew, as a fact, that The Awdam were going to turn before He created them.

Instead, if Knoch and I are right, then these scriptures, properly translated, beg the question: "When was the disruption of the world?"

My answer is in The Garden at the moment Ish and Ishsha ate the fruit from the Tree of The Knowledge of the Difference Between Good and Evil and disrupted God's good intentions for us. For make no mistake, the command to eat was a set up - but not a set-up to fail, rather it was a set-up to succeed! However, way back then at our beginnings, what wasn't supposed to happen, did happen, and what was supposed to happen did not happen; and now Jehovah is deep into his plan to redeem the human race, all of the human race, and nullify the work of the Adversary.

That is the basis of my understanding, Abigail.

From this understanding, and from many, many other things I learned, I gleaned what I needed in order to imagine the world that we would know nothing of apart from the story in this ancient document; the fantastic, but literal and very historic world of the first two human beings.

My hope is that all this typing answered your question, "Where did this idea come from?" to your satisfaction. Please feel free to inquire more of me knowing that I have turned on my notifications so I will see any replies you make much sooner.

Be good, Abigail. It is, after all, what you were created to be!

Please know that you are appreciated.

[GodIsLove]

I thought your creation story was a good work of art and quite beautifully written. However, my opinion is that God knew what Adam and Eve would do because of verses like this:

Psalm 147-5 Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.

1 John 3:20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

Psalm 139:4 Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all.

Psalm 44:21 Would not God find this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart.

Isaiah 46:9-10
"Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'

God, in order to be omniscient and omnipotent, would have to know in advance what would occur. If He does not, it raises a lot of questions in my mind.

A lack of knowledge would make God more like a mortal.

In my opinion, any verse that implies God did not know something and acts "surprised" is either God doing that for our benefit (have you ever done this with a small child?) or it is us as humans misinterpreting His response.

[Eleutheros]

I thought your creation story was a good work of art and quite beautifully written. However, my opinion is that God knew what Adam and Eve would do because of verses like this:

Psalm 147-5 Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite.

1 John 3:20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

Psalm 139:4 Even before there is a word on my tongue, Behold, O LORD, You know it all.

Psalm 44:21 Would not God find this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart.

Isaiah 46:9-10
"Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, 'My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'

God, in order to be omniscient and omnipotent, would have to know in advance what would occur. If He does not, it raises a lot of questions in my mind.

A lack of knowledge would make God more like a mortal.

Greetings My Friend!

I thank you for your good words concerning my story. Please know that they are appreciated.

Now, I perceive that your reply is largely derived from what I wrote to Abigail. So, based on what I wrote to Abigail, and what I wrote in my story, may I ask if you think I believe that Jehovah is not omniscient and omnipotent? That God does not know in advance what will occur?

Also, I would like to ask you two questions that I may know your thoughts a little better before I can reply specifically to your post.

My first question is: "What is the heart?"

My second question is: "What does the Bible teach us about how Jehovah gets His 'foreknowledge?'"

Please know that I am not looking for a specific answer, right now. I would just like to start you thinking about two concepts that are key to my understanding of the scriptures you provided; for I am familiar with those scriptures, but perceive them from a different point of view; a point of view that does no damage to the concepts of omniscience and omnipotence, while nullifying the Calvinist/Arminian concepts that drive modern Christian thought.

So, please take your time and consider the questions I asked and be sure to include any scriptures you can think of to support your considerations.

In my opinion, any verse that implies God did not know something and acts "surprised" is either God doing that for our benefit (have you ever done this with a small child?) or it is us as humans misinterpreting His response.

I perceive from this statement that you are familiar with the contradictions that I too encountered when I read the Bible believing it a truth that Jehovah knew, as a fact, that The Awdam were going to turn before He created them. I also perceive that you've considered those contradictions and provided yourself with an answer that satisfies you. Very good. If you are satisfied with your answer, then be pleased to know that I am not here to try and change anyone's heart.

However, I will type back something to consider.

When Jesus was leading His disciples to the Garden of Gethsemane where He foreknew He would be betrayed, He was hurriedly giving them a lot of last minute words of instruction and encouragement, and dire warning - three chapters worth recorded in John's Gospel. At the end of it all he said to them: "Still much have I to say to you, but you are not able to bear it at present." John 16:12 CLV

In imagining myself as one of his disciples, walking quickly along with him that Passover night, listening to the urgency in His words and trying to comprehend the strange events that had just transpired, I came up short in my heart when I read those words: "Still much have I to say to you, but you are not able to bear it at present.

"God, please, what is it in my heart that makes You say this to me? Whatever it is please show me. Whatever I have to unlearn, show me; whatever I have to relearn, show me. I just want to know everything You wish me to know."

Be good!

[Abigail]

Thanks for your thoughtful response, Dennis. As for the Scriptures you mentioned, I found some other places that use the phrase 'before the foundation of the world'. I just looked them up in the CLV and they all say 'disruption'. That is very interesting and speaks volumes.

You wrote to GodIsLove (my quotebutton doesn't seem to work):

My second question is: "What does the Bible teach us about how Jehovah gets His 'foreknowledge?'"

Please know that I am not looking for a specific answer, right now. I would just like to start you thinking about two concepts that are key to my understanding of the scriptures you provided; for I am familiar with those scriptures, but perceive them from a different point of view; a point of view that does no damage to the concepts of omniscience and omnipotence, while nullifying the Calvinist/Arminian concepts that drive modern Christian thought.

I am very interested in your views on foreknowledge / omniscience. If you have time to share some, that would be very helpful. I cannot put in words yet some things concerning these matters that are in my spirit.

[Abigail]

(see former post I just posted)
I was thinking some more, where did I get those views from, because I had some very different associations. Just thinking out loud.

1. 'the Tree was placed there to give mankind a choice, yet God did not want him to eat from it'.
This is what I learned in the Evangelical 'world'. I have not understood this as 'God knew mankind would sin', but more as: God knew there was a possibility they would sin, and therefore He already had the solution to it. To me this is compatible to UR (God provided the solution for all). I don't understand the necessity of the choice though. I am not fully persuaded this view is not correct, yet it doesn't fully make sense to my heart.

2. the Tree was placed there because it was necessary mankind would sin, so God actually purposed they would eat from it.
I actually first heard this in the UR 'camp'. (I'm raised in a very simplistic kind of Calvinist church that did not mention the reason of the Tree of Knowledge as far as I remember). Scripture: For God consigned all men to disobedience, only that He may have mercy on them all (Romans 11:32). I've mentally agreed with this view for over the last years, yet somehow I really get to dislike it more and more. The main reason: to me it feels like the Tree was a trap that God set up, and I just don't know God to be like that.

[eaglesway]

The tree is still there. God still prefers we not eat of it. If we do a flaming sword keeps us out of the garden. The tree of life is still there too, if we have ears. :o)

"Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."

[Eleutheros]

Thanks for your thoughtful response, Dennis. As for the Scriptures you mentioned, I found some other places that use the phrase 'before the foundation of the world'. I just looked them up in the CLV and they all say 'disruption'. That is very interesting and speaks volumes.

Greetings Abigail!

Yes, it does speak volumes, doesn't it!

The example I gave above of the difference between katabole and themelios is just a a small but quite significant exposure of the knavery behind the KJV; a knavery that most here on Tentmaker and other Universalist web-sites are familiar with—and concur with—at least when it comes to understanding how that peculiar eternal hell of conscious torment, forever separated from God, was actually translated into existence.

However, I have noticed that most Universalists, particularly those who hold to Ultimate Reconciliation (UR), are unwilling to concur with the logic behind my contention concerning the phrase katabole kosmos despite the fact that I employ the exact same logic—the same deductive reasoning—that they use to expose the translational bias in the KJV concerning that peculiar hell.

Indeed, I've had conversations with Ultimate Reconciliation folk who react as vociferously to my contention concerning that phrase as one would imagine a Calvinist would.

Why is that?

I am very interested in your views on foreknowledge / omniscience. If you have time to share some, that would be very helpful. I cannot put in words yet some things concerning these matters that are in my spirit.

Abigail, I was born and raised Southern Baptist, and just like you said it, I initially could not put into words the things that were in my spirit concerning the things I was taught. I just knew that the things I was taught made me very uncomfortable. That's a good thing!

However, what was troubling me in my spirit first began to gel into something cogent when I took I John 3:8-10 at face value, that is to say, without my Calvinist "blinders."

Yet he who is doing sin is of the Adversary, for from the beginning is the Adversary sinning. For this was the Son of God manifested, that He should be annulling the acts of the Adversary.
Everyone who is begotten of God is not doing sin, for His seed is remaining in him, and he cannot be sinning, for he is begotten of God.
In this are apparent the children of God and the children of the Adversary: everyone who is not doing righteousness is not of God, and who is not loving his brother.

What's this? What's this?

Did John just write that those human beings who are born-again (begotten of God) should find it akin to impossible to sin?!?

Whoa.

That goes against everything I was taught! Don't we sin every day? Isn't Jesus what God sees when he looks at me, instead of my daily sins?

Those concepts can't be true if John is saying that those human beings who are born anew have the ability to live their lives freed from sin! And that it is not only possible, indeed, it was expected, that those human beings who were re-sired of Jehovah, should stop sinning!

Obviously, given the things I was taught, the effect on me was profound.

Then I discovered something truly extraordinary. The Greek word John choose for "seed" is the Greek word sperma (He had another word he could have chosen, but didn't. That word was speiro).

That discovery led me back to the surreptitious conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus; a conversation that, apparently, only John from among all the apostles was privy too. In that conversation Jesus utilizes our sexuality, that is our ability to create new human beings when we unite a sperm and an ovum through sex, to illustrate what He meant when He said, "If anyone should not be begotten anew, he cannot perceive the kingdom of God."

If I told you of the terrestrial and you are not believing, how shall you be believing if I should be telling you of the celestial?"

So, my being "born-again" took on a very literal meaning in my heart.

In my heart.

Ever notice in the stories of Jesus that He often freaked-out every one, including his disciples, because he could tell them what they were thinking in their hearts?

Abigail, it is from God's ability to know everyone's heart, that is our thoughts—the way we think and what we think—that He derives His "foreknowledge."

Let's look at that.

The Greek word translated foreknowledge by the KJV interpreters is a feminine noun (When you followed the link, did you recognize an English word we borrowed directly from this Greek word? What does this word mean in English? Is it different from what it means in Greek?)
In it's verb form this word appears five times more in the scriptures. Three times it is associated with God and two more times it appears in passages not associated with God. In those two places, the word is translated with the phrase, "know/knew before," rather than the more specialized word "foreknowledge / foreknow," words apparently coined to convey the idea to the English reader that Jehovah's ability to, "know before" is different from what would be conveyed to a Greek reader of those scriptures.

Abigail, if you follow the links and consider what I've wrote, I'd like to ask what you conclude about this translational slight-of-hand?

~

So, when did Jehovah "foreknow" what was going to happen on September 11th, 2001? From the foundation of the world? If not, when?

When did Jehovah know, as a fact, that The Awdam was going to be turned? Before He created them?

Or, perhaps, the second question is really a non-sequitur, given what the Bible teaches us about how Jehovah gets His "foreknowledge."

Abigail, this link will take you to a page here on Tentmaker where I once made my case, and in great detail, that Jehovah gets his foreknowledge from being able to "read" our thoughts, that is to say our hearts (You'll have to read down a bit to find where I discuss this, and the rest of my typing continues onto the next page).

For what is the heart if it is not the sum total of the thoughts within us from which we will speak, act and react to the words and actions of others?

What is the heart?

I was thinking some more, where did I get those views from, because I had some very different associations. Just thinking out loud.

1. 'the Tree was placed there to give mankind a choice, yet God did not want him to eat from it'.
This is what I learned in the Evangelical 'world'. I have not understood this as 'God knew mankind would sin', but more as: God knew there was a possibility they would sin, and therefore He already had the solution to it. To me this is compatible to UR (God provided the solution for all). I don't understand the necessity of the choice though. I am not fully persuaded this view is not correct, yet it doesn't fully make sense to my heart.

Abigail, in reply to you stating that you don't understand the necessity of the choice that Jehovah gave them, I would like to ask you a few questions that may lead you to understanding: the questions are:

"What is virtue?"

"Can someone be virtuous who does not know the difference between good and evil, that is to say, who does not have a conscience?"

"Can virtue exist apart from having to make a choice between right and wrong, to choose between good and evil?

My story addresses those questions.

And in it you will find my agreement with you that Jehovah knew that it was possible that The Awdam would turn, and that He had a "Contingency Plan" if they did. So is knowing something as a possibility the same as knowing something as a fact?

2. the Tree was placed there because it was necessary mankind would sin, so God actually purposed they would eat from it.
I actually first heard this in the UR 'camp'. (I'm raised in a very simplistic kind of Calvinist church that did not mention the reason of the Tree of Knowledge as far as I remember). Scripture: For God consigned all men to disobedience, only that He may have mercy on them all (Romans 11:32). I've mentally agreed with this view for over the last years, yet somehow I really get to dislike it more and more. The main reason: to me it feels like the Tree was a trap that God set up, and I just don't know God to be like that.

You, dear lady, have typed out the most prescient thing you could know. For, from your thought about how the idea that Jehovah must have foreknown the fall as a fact challenges the true nature of Jehovah, you are not far from seeing things differently.

So, was the command not to eat a set-up to fail, making the events in the Garden nothing more than a Divine Sting Operation, and it's perpetrator, Jehovah, capricious at best and megalomaniac at worst, considering all the horrible things His creation has done to each other, while He still demands that we worship Him?

Or, was it a set-up to succeed? With the outcome unknown; for how could Jehovah know something that would, by the very nature of the set-up, be impossible to know given that a choice had to be made by beings who did not yet have a conscience, but were given the ability to make a choice, a choice that would be credited to them as virtue, if they resisted the temptation to distrust Jehovah?

Of course this concept implies that it must have been possible for The Awdam to make the virtuous choice.

With this understanding in my heart, I no longer perceive the conflicts that used to come when I read passages like Genesis 4:6-7

And Jehovah said to Cain, Why have you angrily glowed, and why has your face fallen? If you do well, is there not exaltation? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is toward you; but you should rule over it.

Why would Jehovah point out that Cain needed to overcome the sin that lay crouching at the door for his offering an incorrect sacrifice, if it was an impossible thing for for Cain to do, given that Jehovah must have known, from the foundation of the world, that Cain was going to murder Able? The answer is, of course, that God did reasonably expect that Cain could change his heart, that is his thoughts, and do what was right!

So, choose to be good, Abigail, consistently, which should be possible if you've been re-sired by Jehovah. After all, good is what you (and me and all human beings) were originally created to be! And doesn't Jehovah make this possible through Jesus Christ who came to annul the work of The Adversary?

*I choose Green's translation here because I perceive from my interlinear studies that his rendering is the best way to translate this scripture.

[Abigail]

Hi Dennis,

Thank you for your response. I'm sorry I reply so late. I have limited PC time, mainly because I homeschool & mother 6 children (and I went on a holiday with my sweet family).

I studied your post and all the links in it and that was very helpful. Your view on foreknowledge makes so much sense to me.

I wondered why I wrote I did not understand the necessity of choice, since I do understand there have to be choices in order to choose right. I think I wrote that since I often felt the story went like this: there was one big test, namely the tree, that determined the whole future of the human race. And I wondered why. Yet I feel that when Adam and Eve would have resisted the urge to eat from the tree, there would have been way more lessons, and possibillities to choose between right and wrong. And as I understand your view on the story, Adam and humanity could have learned the difference between right & wrong directly from the Father, without experiencing the Fall. Did I understand you right on this?

[Eleutheros]

Hi Dennis,

Thank you for your response. I'm sorry I reply so late. I have limited PC time, mainly because I homeschool & mother 6 children (and I went on a holiday with my sweet family).

Abigail! So, good to hear from you!
I, too, am replying late because I did not receive a notification that you had posted. I re-checked my checked boxes for notification, as well as for a correct e-mail address and everything seems correct. I also checked my spam folder, but there is no notification from Tentmaker. Oh, well, I'll just have to keep checking in from time to time!

I hope the taste of your sweet family's vacation lingers long. I'm glad you had a chance to create a delectable memory. They're the most valuable things you can create, apart from the little humans you've conceived.

My empathy is yours for tackling the homeschooling of such a collection of little ones. Don't we just learn so much about ourselves from their little heart's responses to us, their parents? I perceive that, because of these little ones, the things of relationship between ourselves and our Creator are best illustrated and thus understood. My own three are now adults doing their own unique learning thing, surpassing the sum-total of what I passed onto them, things both of memory and of learning (or unlearning, as it may be). I am so proud of them.

I studied your post and all the links in it and that was very helpful. Your view on foreknowledge makes so much sense to me.

*Sigh* That comment just fills me with satisfaction! It's for responses like yours that I post my heart through my writing. I figure there's gotta be other people who have asked the same questions I have and were dissatisfied with the answers given them.

I wondered why I wrote I did not understand the necessity of choice, since I do understand there have to be choices in order to choose right. I think I wrote that since I often felt the story went like this: there was one big test, namely the tree, that determined the whole future of the human race. And I wondered why. Yet I feel that when Adam and Eve would have resisted the urge to eat from the tree, there would have been way more lessons, and possibillities to choose between right and wrong. And as I understand your view on the story, Adam and humanity could have learned the difference between right & wrong directly from the Father, without experiencing the Fall. Did I understand you right on this?

Almost.

I contend that the concept of right and wrong, along with the ability to choose one over the other, comes when sentience (self-awareness) is united to a conscience. Now, The Awdam had sentience (which comes with spirit), but did not initially have a conscience. Hence, they were nude and were unashamed to be so (Think of the innocence displayed by your own children about their nudity, or about the unashamed feeling between yourself and your husband).

I perceive that Jehovah Elohim created them this way because His intention was that the first pair should gain virtue, first, through heeding His warning concerning the Tree of Conscience. Then, after being tempted by the Tempter to distrust Jehovah, and that without success for it being reasonable to assume that The Awdam could have maintained trust, Jehovah would then give them permission to eat a fruit from the Tree of Conscience. Then the effect of the fruit doing what it was created to do would be to establish a conscience in beings of virtue (virtuous for their trust in Jehovah), thus permanently incorporating the concept of right and wrong, and the subsequent ability to choose between the two, into beings of both sentience and established virtue.

I contend that the result would be human beings who knew the difference between right and wrong and who understood deeply in their souls why it is necessary to always choose what is right to do... and thus who would always choose what is right to do! In other words, beings of virtue that would have no need for "lessons" in what is right and wrong to do!

What kind of world would we have if this were true of us, if we were all beings of virtue and thus of righteousness?

Abigail, righteousness is nothing more than doing what is right to do. That's it. And many human beings do choose to do what is right, as best they can, for having a conscience and sentience. Or at the least they truly desire to be good, despite the errors of their ways. However, to possess the righteousness of Jehovah (His virtue), in this age, requires not only sentience and a conscience but a re-siring from Jehovah through faith in Jesus - faith in His agape and in His goodness and in knowing that He favors the righteous. Indeed, it is exactly these ones who desire righteousness that Jehovah comes to "know before" for knowing their hearts, and thus sets them apart and targets them for redemption. Additionally, one of the things a re-sired human being receives is a cleansed conscience (It's amazing how much The Words have to say about the role of the conscience in the life of the Beleiver!). These then become the "first fruits" of the work Jesus accomplished through His resurrection.

However, it's not easy to be righteous in an age where human beings know what is right and wrong to do, but almost consistently choose what is both wrong and harmful to do, harming both themselves and others; harming themselves, I contend, because unrighteous is not what we were created to be, nor was it ever Jehovah's intention that we should be unrighteous!

That is why some human beings, in this age, can learn "lessons" in righteousness for enduring the consequences of their actions - and some cannot.

Indeed, one of the things that Peter tells us a re-sired human being is supposed to have is virtue!

So has all of His divine power, that tends to life and devoutness, been presented to us through the recognition of Him Who calls us to His own glory and virtue; through which have been presented to us the precious and greatest promises, that through these you may become participants of the divine nature, (What is the divine nature if it is not virtuousness?) fleeing from the corruption which is in the world by lust.

Now for this same thing also, employing all diligence, in your faith supply virtue, yet in virtue knowledge, yet in knowledge self-control, yet in self-control endurance, yet in endurance devoutness, yet in devoutness brotherly fondness, yet in brotherly fondness love. For your possessing these and increasing is constituting you not idle nor yet unfruitful in the recognition of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
For he in whom these are not present is blind, closing his eyes, getting oblivious of the cleansing from the penalties of his sins of old. Wherefore, rather, brethren, endeavor through ideal acts (what are ideal acts, if not choosing to do what is good and right to do?) to confirm your calling and choice; for, doing these things you should under no circumstances be tripping at any time.

Those are some pretty potent words, aren't they? All about how to be a human being in whom Jehovah is well-pleased (is that even possible?!?)

Abigail, "human" is not something we were put here to rise above, rather it is something we were put here to become good at being by being good! For I perceive that both good and human is what we were created to be! It is not a sin to be a human being! And, because what was supposed to happen way back then did not happen, this resulting "badness" in Us is the very work of the Adversary that Jesus came to annul!

There is this interesting passage in Isaiah about the Kingdom of God.

For behold Me creating new heavens and a new earth, And the former shall not be remembered, Nor shall they come up on the heart. But rather be elated and exult in the futures of the future which I shall be creating, For behold Me creating Jerusalem an exultation, And her people an elation.

I exult in Jerusalem, And I am elated in My people; And the sound of lamentation shall not be heard in her any longer, Or the sound of outcry.
No longer shall there be thence an infant of few days, Or an old man who shall not fill his days; For a youth shall die at a hundred years old, And he who misses a hundred years old shall be lightly esteemed.

They will build houses and dwell in them, And they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit; They shall not build, and another dwell there; They shall not plant, and another eat, For like the days of a tree will be the days of My people, And the work of their hands shall My chosen use to the full.
They shall not labor for nought, Nor shall they give birth in vain, For the seed of Yahweh's blessed are they, And their offspring with them.

And it will be that ere they are calling, I Myself shall answer; While they are still speaking, I Myself shall hearken. (QUESTION: What kind of human beings will we have to be that Jehovah is so eager and happy to respond to our requests of Him that He does so while we are in the middle of speaking? ANSWER: Good ones!)

The wolf and the lambkin shall graze alike, And the lion shall eat crushed straw like the ox, And the serpent shall have soil as its bread. They shall not do evil, Nor shall they bring ruin in all My holy mountain, says Jehovah.

Imagine! A world where nature is gentle and responsive to us, and the vast majority of human beings are as virtuous as the God who created them! Sounds to me like this is the way things were supposed to be! And doesn't this New Heavens and New Earth sound so beautifully and simply human! Almost like We were the reason for The New Heavens and the New Earth to even exist...

~

So, I'm curious, Abigail. For being here on Tentmaker, I feel it safe to assume that you have eliminated the thought of that peculiar hell from your heart, and now you seem to have latched on to this insanity of mine! :winkgrin: Therefore, if I may, I would like to know if these things I've been blathering on about have found their way into your heart such that you perceive that there is a difference, now, in how you perceive both yourself and your fellow human beings.

I ask because once I grasped the truth that it's okay to be a human being... well, before I type anymore about that, I'd like to read if you have something to type, first.

Please know that you are much appreciated for your beautiful questions.

Dennis!

[marie glen]

Hi! :hiya: I haven't had time to read the article.. (so busy!) but reading the last posts in this thread, I just had to say I totally agree that what our Heavenly Father is creating is humans! Perfect (perfectly good, 100% in tune with Him) humans.. It was a gnostic (pagan collect) thought that we had 'fallen into being human' ...somehow Jehovah had made some sort of mistake.. or overlooked something :laughing7: It's not the material universe that needs to be "overcome" but ones own im-perfect, i.e., flawed (carnal) nature.  That nature which is without 100% cleaving upon God, our Maker , who iS life and perfection. (Perfection makes no mistakes, loses nothing.)
  :2c:  :gsmile:
God bless!

PS - but the new bodies believers are resurrected in will be perfect bodies which will bear the image of the heavenly..

[Eleutheros]

Hi! :hiya: I haven't had time to read the article.. (so busy!) but reading the last posts in this thread, I just had to say I totally agree that what our Heavenly Father is creating is humans! Perfect (perfectly good, 100% in tune with Him) humans.. It was a gnostic (pagan collect) thought that we had 'fallen into being human' ...somehow Jehovah had made some sort of mistake.. or overlooked something :laughing7: It's not the material universe that needs to be "overcome" but ones own im-perfect, i.e., flawed (carnal) nature.  That nature which is without 100% cleaving upon God, our Maker , who iS life and perfection. (Perfection makes no mistakes, loses nothing.)
  :2c:  :gsmile:
God bless!

PS - but the new bodies believers are resurrected in will be perfect bodies which will bear the image of the heavenly..

Greetings marie glen!

Your reply sums up quite well everything I've been typing about! Very cool! And thank you.

So, while you were typing your reply, I was editing the above post to Abigail to include a few additional thoughts - thoughts that actually fit in quite well with what you posted. Perhaps you would like to re-read my last post.

When you have time, could I ask if you would please read Creation Hymn through? I'd love to hear any thoughts you might wish to share.

Keep being good, marie glen! After all, it is what you were created to be!  :thumbsup:

Dennis!

[marie glen]

"nature, gentle, and responsive to us.."

I think of nature - in its vast array - both Earth and heaven as something truly Glorious! As true beauty.. and a reflection of His beauty.. Not the dog eat dog.. carnivore thing going on of course! That being all a part of imperfection. There being ultimately only two ways - Perfection, or imperfection ("missing the mark") which is of course, anything minutely less than perfection!

Even Jesus said "why do you call me good? There is only one good!"

That means we either "live" in complete union and agreement with the Creator/Sustainer or we not live. I think that is the A, #One law of life. And we are all learning it. Whether He could have taught us in a different manner.. "with God all things are possible".

I figure rationality.. the ability to think and ponder, includes sooner or later, the ability to make choices. More than twenty years ago my son asked me "why was the tree of knowing good and evil in the garden?" and "isn't it great we get to be an ant farm.." (short answer, we're not an ant farm.)

I wasn't happy with my answers even tho I was a happy and studious believer, so I prayed for better answers. And the answers virtually knocked my socks off. And they are still knocked off!

But so simple. So logical. (I have come to REALLY appreciate logic, what with this world so packed full of untruth., even in believing circles! Or should I say especially? Or that is, the one so illogical one, that really bugs me!)

The answers which came to me ended with a question (coming to mind) - "why did God wait so veRy long and only create the universe and man and woman, not only after, the first bound to occur, rebel thought occurred, but after it had fully matured into outright sedition and subterfuge?(!)"

The answer of course came along right after it.. - so all would take this unavoidable journey / lesson all together, at once... lest one wander away (into imperfection the result of choosing anything in any tiny way in thought, Word or deed, that disagrees with what He chooses.. one wandering into imperfection now.. another.. later, and still another later.. and then another.. taking virtually 'forever'..

That's the way I think of it anyway..like He could see all possibilities stretched out before Him, before ever doing any act of creation.. and the first act was the Word, the Son, the Only straight out from Him One.. so close as to share nature, essence, character.. "This is the decree" Psalm 2 "You are My Son"

"He is gathering all things in heaven and earth into Jesus"

And this, as we know, is why the New Testament (will, contract) is the real thing, and far superior than the old covenant which reveals error.

The thing being, that imperfection can never make itself perfect (what with being imperfect :laughing7: ) and is why the "angels which left their first state" are locked-into darkness awaiting judgment..

What freedom! To know that the question of whether or not I am good enough to approach God (let alone "abide under His Loving wing"!) is answered. "Christ's righteous standing is imputed to me" - is mine! With "boldness" I can enter God's Presence and get the help I need" which is considerable, what with being so imperfect, until I am fully rescued from on high, at Jesus' retur, whereupon I shall "put on incorruptibility" and will "put on immortality" along with an incorruptible, fashioned after the heavenlies, body" - " we don't yet know what we shall be, but we shall be like Him" meaning like Jesus, which I take to include, body wise, which after His resurrection, he ate and said touch me and see I am no ghost.

Now I've written all this on this tiny phone screen, as I am outside enjoying God's glorious nature before winter is upon me.. but oiye the typos.. hope I don't miss any!

I will be reading your article :thumbsup:
God bless,
mg / glenda

[marie glen]

ps - it's interesting.. in reading so far it seems you are here concerned with the 'how' and the beginning and lately I've been into the 'end' and the why, lol. The Heavenly Father / Creator talks to us all in very many different ways..

...still reading.. Good writing! And interesting!

[marie glen]

We know the Genesis account is condensed.. you've made me wonder a bit more on the relationship our Heavenly Father had with the childlike Adam and Eve. And how long it continued in their innocent stage.. it could have been quite some time.. then one day when Eve's guard was down..

I can see how a previous Earth age could have occurred and as an example (as this one is too) Yahweh did not intervene, and alas, all collapsed and crumbled, and all perished.

In which case, they too would all be raised in the second resurrection after the Millennium, even as all those who perished in the flood of Noah's day, will rise. For due to Yahweh's pristine character, He surely, could never bear to lose them all, allowing them to perish. (The result/wages of "missing the mark"/sin is death"/nonlife/lack of life - It was refreshing to read no tales about walking about souls after death - not that I don't believe in the soul/psyche/ individuality, but I believe after death in believers is the state of sleeping in Christ. But I stray..

There were many things in your story which I very much liked! It made the whole account very alive and full of character and personality! Especially good for non believers, though one, possibly two things, may lose you believing readers. If your 6th day of creation could stretch out to encompass the 8th..

I have a story in my mind I'd like to write.. don't know if I ever will - "a fiction based on fact". I'm a real stickler for Truth. I am not happy on a given topic until I feel I understand the truth of it, the whole truth (kind of, or generally speaking, rofl) and nothing but the truth... almost to the point of obnoxious :laughing7: ...This is difficult, as of course "we see through a glass darkly"!

It certainly would be a GREAT thing to be able to give away to others trust in Jehovah. As all go through the time of so many questions(!)

Indeed the world itself is asking those questions! Although in a more accusing way. "If there be God, and if He be good, why is life as it is? And why is there death?" Indeed death rules!

Of course, most with half an open mind can see the world is the result of man's doings, ever since Cain slew Abel.. But the question remains, how could He let all this happen?! Just look at all the pain and suffering!

It's my belief before any act of creation - and this was a vision in my mind which began the answers God gave (imo :gsmile: ) when my son asked "why was the tree of knowing good and evil in the garden?" - I saw what was like an ethereal blanket stretched out into infinity from in front of our Heavenly Father's gaze. It came to my mind as a profile image. And in the 360 degree ethereal blanket, he could see all possibilities stretched out before Him, and the 'end' results of each possibility.

On the heels of that image, came the assertion that (of course, i.e. logically) He then has chosen to do and engineer all things exactly as He has, in order to bring about the very best 'end' result possible.

This seemed logical to me, especially when with it came the notion that He is both Life and Perfection, or He too would fade away. Now this very last part, I don't know why I know that, I just do. Perhaps because to fade away is to not BE perfect, but that's kind of circular isn't it? :dontknow: :laughing7:

It continued.. ..that when He endowed thinking ability a whole new world of possibilities (er tree of) came about. So there was that tree in the garden, as God can only (surely?) be honest.

You see the dilemma? Logically, a Pandora's box, for with thinking ability, comes (surely?) sooner or later, the ability to make choices. And once one chooses anything in thought or doing that differs with what He chooses, that one becomes imperfect, the opposite of life! :faint: But what was the other option? No rational creatures ever?!

Of course, I've had to tweak portions of this, as "choice" does not extend to our salvation, but in the word chosen, is included "by lot". A lucky throw of the Heavenly dice! We know it is His choice and none of ours.

When I write, I figure any little bit of untruth will contaminate the whole, as only Truth, ultimately, rings true.

I almost forgot! A most important part of the answers i received. Our Heavenly Father, because He iS life, lives through, experiences, and suffers ALL sufferings which ever occur.. Why would He put Himself through all that!!?

..Perhaps because He's not creating an ant farm! But His very own family and an un-breakable paradise / perfection.

For what is the best teacher? After the HS? Or what is said to be the best teacher..?

And, as part of the conclusion of these answers I believe I received, is the idea that Judgment 'Day' will be a very long 'day' of review of all history.. where all in heaven and earth will be in attendance.. At the end of which - and I believe it will last nigh onto 500 years (because of how Jesus' 1st advent fulfilled the ancient Spring Holy Days, surely His long 2nd one can be expected to fulfill the autumn ones, Lev 23, with their spacing. Three holy days, 3 peaks of the advent) - at the end of Judgment 'Day' (DOA-day Of Atonement) anyone found not believing, thus their name is not (yet) written in the book of life, not (yet) reconciled to God - At-one-ment with, shall go to the purifying LOF, which I presume we have experienced as trials and tribulations of this life, and those not saved during this life, experienced via the weeping and even some's gnashing of teeth as they repent during 'Day' of Judgment/Atonement.

Well I have babbled on (and on) long enough! In conclusion, you've written a truly very lovely story! but, as for me, I would love it even more, if it included the all knowingness of our Father..
:thumbsup: God bless!

[marie glen]

PS?  :blah:

You are very right about the freedom ("eleutheros") which was lost. I found myself reading in Genesis this morning.. Inspired by your story.. how the Shekinah Glory must have faded from around Adam and Eve! No longer shining through them.. Perhaps their bodies became more dense, less free.. (The Gnostics had it aLmost right! But oh so wrong. That subtle serpent writhing his way through life!)

Now instead of Love/God being the ruling force, each individual would be their own ruling force. Life turned a corner, took a new direction.

But what a contrast to what God, our Heavenly Father, is making!

Yet, after the fall (into self interest, the carnal character and state of being that exalts self and puts self first) and the very ground put forth thorns and thistles, it's easy to see an easier way of living would be sought.. the 'dog eat dog' and warfare sure to occur.. The clothing formed of skins by Yahweh, surely a harbinger.. The Father of course could have fashioned them of any material.. Perhaps too He wanted to get this perverse show on the road.. Get it over with!

When we realize that He has done and is doing all things perfectly, in order to bring about the very best of any and every possibility, all our mistrust of Him, and any misperception of Him, flies out the window and we can become very established and settled into His peace and fountain of joy of outflowing love - which of course is Him, the true and intended ruling force.. which will have the lion (once again?) eating straw like the ox and the bear grazing with the cow. A small child will be able to play at the entrance to the poisonous snake den. That's how subdued His subduing shall be.

But now in this state of affairs, it was bound to occur that man, being stronger than woman, would come to dominate her, and in some places still she is but a shadow in life. Also bound to occur were oppressions and dictatorships.. despots of all kinds.. Large and small.. This - is the backward way. When interest of life flows backward toward self.
It can only become a black hole which swallows all of life, a bottomless pit of despair and potential evil doings.. It can never work.

We cannot no never build without the stone the builders rejected.

Both Genesis and Revelation, i think, show very well how Yahweh does not always speak in order. (Perhaps so we would have to listen?)

"Yahweh is gracious and merciful. His love endures forever."

[Abigail]

Here I am again!
I just typed a reply and hit a wrong button and it all disappeared ☹

So now I will be summarizing. You asked a specific question in how the things you shared had changed my thinking on human beings.

I think it mainly changed my mind, or actually confirmed my spirit, on the subject of the nature of God and His good plans for humankind, more than on the nature of man.

Yet there have been two major changes in my mind concerning mankind over the last couple of years, since God showed me He is indeed the Saviour of all mankind, namely:
-   the knowledge God never gives up on anyone, the knowledge that we all come from the same Father and all will be completely reconciled back to Him eradicated the 'us-them' idea from my heart and made me see all humans in a way as my brothers and sisters
-   the understanding of judgment as being disciplining/saving instead of punitive also changed my mind about the subjects of His judgments. A change from condemnative thinking to caring and loving thinking.

Yet I feel I still need some more changing of mind in respect to how I see humans – myself and others. I don't fully grasp what our identity in Christ / new creation means, although I've heard so much about it, I still don't fully get it. Is our 'good nature', so to say, something we were originally created and in a sense, have always been (somewhere??)? Or is totally new, never existed before (after all, the bible speaks about a new creation). Or is it what we are in the process of becoming? Or still need to become? And how is it that we have to 'put it on', when we already ARE it. To me this is not a interest in dogma's, but a desire to see myself and others as God sees us. I suppose you started writing on these issues. You sometimes sign your posts with 'be good', and I perceive I do not fully grasp the meaning of it. And how to be good. And how to 'put of' the old nature. How to identify.

You speak about being 're-sired'. I wondered what you meant by the word (I am not a native speaker of English). And why you chose it instead of the more common 'reborn'. Could you paint this picture a little further?

Thanks for sharing from your heart,
Abigail

[Eleutheros]

Hey marie glenn!

Wow. That was a lot of typing! Thank you. I enjoyed reading your words of reply; you spoke well and free from your heart and that is always a delightful thing to me. And then to read that I inspired you to think... well, that was worth all the work I put into my own writing. I appreciate you, marie glenn, and your heart.

So, I apologize for the lateness of this reply. I am a 57 year-old college student with a lot of projects due as I pursue a degree in Graphic Communication. Of course that means anything not related to my assignments, like our enjoyable exchanges, must go to the back of the line when I'm in semester. I'm sure that you will understand and accept my humblest apologies.

May I challenge you?

In your first and second reply you typed a lot about perfection and imperfection. Please know that your heart was understood on that subject because it is one I've, too, pondered.

But, more on that a bit later.

Now, I am familiar with the understanding here on Tentmaker and I am aware of the answers provided here to the questions raised as we consider our origins; answers that are reasonable and logical, given that understanding. So, I recognize, in your replies, that consensus of understanding here on Tentmaker.

Now, you also typed about your appreciation of logic. I, too, appreciate logic. Indeed, without it I would not have been able to write Creation Hymn!

However, I would like to ask if you are aware that logic has a dirty little secret?

It is a secret that allows human beings who are good at arguing to commit intellectual feats of presumptive rhetoric that leave "lesser" mortals spiting and spewing from emotion for having their arguments undermined, simply by knowing how to make arguments irrefutably logical.

The secret is that logic works independently from truth. That is to say logic can be used to support both truth and myth.

This is because logic begins with postulates (axioms) and is built upon those postulates till a logical conclusion is reached But, if the postulates are wrong, that is to say if they do not accurately reflect reality, then the conclusions are also wrong! However, note that a logical conclusion was reached!

That is why it is facetiously said of logic that it is the means by which we can arrive at a false conclusion with certainty!  :laugh:

Therefore, when contradiction results from applying logic, it is not the conclusions that must be examined for truthfulness, but the postulates;for when postulates accurately reflect reality, that is, when they are truthful, they lead to inherently non-contradictory conclusions.

By the way, my statement that truth is inherently non-contradictory in its conclusions, is a postulate.

Do you think that statement accurately reflects reality? Do you agree with it? For agreement among human beings of the truth in a postulate is necessary before any logical conclusion drawn from that postulate will be accepted by any other human being.

For example: There are humans who hold that the King James Version is the inspired, and thus correct translation of the original languages, penned as it where, by God Himself, because... well, because it simply doesn't make sense that God would allow something as important as His Precious Words to be tampered with!

That belief is a postulate. And a person who holds that postulate as Gospel Truth, will buck and kick and even cuss and swear when someone presents an argument for Universalisim because to hold to Universalisim as Gospel Truth is to have gone back to the original languages and, from that study, deduced that the KJV is not an accurate translation, that it has been compromised to support an incorrect theology! (Which belief, of course, begs the logical question: "Why should a Universalist trust anything the KJV says without study, first?")

Now, marie glenn, I perceive that you are learned in the Words of God. This is evident as I read of your understanding of the Festivals of Israel; an understanding I, too am familiar with for spending several years in Messianic Judaism.

So, here is my challenge: I would like to ask you to look into a Greek word Jesus used, a word which we translate in English as "perfect."

The word is Strongs#G5406: teleios

Matthew recorded that Jesus choose that word when He said, during the Sermon on the Mount, "You be teleios, even as your Father in Heaven is teleios."

There is another Greek word the KJV sometimes translates with "perfect:" that word is Strong's#199: akribōs

How do the shades of meaning differ in English when we choose the word "perfect" such that the KJV translators chose this one word to translate two different words in Greek?

And when you understand that difference, I would like to hear what you concluded Jesus was trying to convey to His Jewish audience when he choose the Greek word teleios and how that meaning may not be properly conveyed to an English speaking audience, given our understanding when we use the word, "perfect."

Is there an English word we can use that would better convey what you think Jesus was trying to convey when he choose teleios? :Chinscratch:

Please know that I am not looking for a "correct" answer; what I wish to know is what you concluded for my issuing this challenge.

By the way, for any Tentmakers who are reading this, :hithere: please know that I would like to hear your conclusions to this challenge, as well!

Again, I thank you for your thoughtful replies.

Be good!

[rosered]

   Great challenge   Dennis !
  We are to love the way God loves and that is  impossible to do with the human heart  .
  I have considered this  , it take the new heart God gives  in the Holy Sprint to produce  this kind of LOVE   because He alone is the total source of  LOVE   without partiality.

  Humans are such respecter of persons  and only love what loves them back or for a  exchange ... bible explains this too in other places .   Acts 10  James   4 I think ? ..
Matt 5 is full of  comparisons..
I am not '' perfect /LOVING '' as fully in GODS SPIRIT   as of  yet  and have to admit it  as a truth   my lack  ..

This is my short answer  :HeartThrob:

   Be ye there for LOVING as the FATHER  IN HEAVEN IS LOVING ..

   1 John 4   ;17 Love Comes from God
...16And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love; whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him.

18There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love....



John 17:22
I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one--



1 John 2:5
But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him:

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

1 John 2:28
And now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears, we may be confident and unashamed before Him at His coming.