does God throw into a burning lake w/o metaphoring it away

[marie glen]

I did a little research to see if anyone in all the world believes much in Revelation and some in the prophets is thermo nuclear.. nuclear or hydrogen nuclear / whatever the advances are called..

first a multiple choice question
I talk about this because
a - I want to frighten other believers
b - I am looking forward to it
c - it proves GOD does not directly make the fire; nor throw people into i; not for long or short duration, if God chooses who to gift with faith, why more stringent with them? But for the grace of God there goes any one of us believers

this article was very well written -

https://christinprophecy.org/articles/nuclear-weapons-in-the-end-times/ :
Actually there are three possible sources of the death and devastation so pointedly predicted by Scripture. First, it could be that the great and terrible destructions predicted will be brought about supernaturally by God Himself without any other possible explanation. Until the nuclear age this was the primary view, as it was hard to see how such a scenario could be brought about by natural human means. In the Old Testament we find God killing 185,000 of Israel’s enemies by one angel, without any natural explanation. If one angel can wipe out that many people, it should not be too much trouble for all the hosts of God’s angelic armies to destroy three quarters of the earth’s population.

Secondly, some of the judgments predicted could possibly come from the cosmic disturbances created by a comet whose path leads it uncomfortably close to the earth. Global earthquakes and tidal waves, resulting in famines on an unprecedented scale would almost certainly be the result. Some, but probably not all, of these judgments could be brought about this way.

The third, and in my mind, the most likely explanation for the terrible judgments which will empty the earth, has to do with nuclear weapons. Since the end of World War II, nuclear weapons have been proliferating all over the globe. At first limited to the United States, then produced by the Soviet Union, they are now in the hands of all sorts of second and third rate powers. It seems almost every year that new nations are added to the list of those countries with nuclear capabilities. Our capacity to destroy all life on earth has multiplied many times over. The fact that we have not yet seen a nuclear war since 1945 can be attributed only to the restraining hand of Almighty God! Surely it is His hand that has prevented us from destroying one another up until this point. How long that hand will continue to restrain us, only God knows.

Rev.7:1 - "And after these things I saw four messengers, standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree".. verse 3 - "3“Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have sealed the foreheads of the servants of our God.” (note - 2 sheepfolds, 1 counted, 1 too many to count)

I didn't know Hal Lindsey wrote about this in his book! No wonder everyone rejects it! lol.

Nevertheless he referenced this:

Quote - “It [the bomb] consists of a dozen or so nuclear tipped missiles which can be fired simultaneously from an orbiting space platform. Because the missiles come straight down from the sky, they can strike several cities simultaneously and with virtually no warning. When these missiles streak through the air they’ll look like meteors showering the atmosphere!”
(Possibly fulfilling Revelation 6:13: “the stars of heaven fell to the earth.”)
unquote (of Mr Lindsey)

more from the article
The Apostle John’s description of the sun becoming black as sack cloth and the moon becoming like blood perfectly describes the phenomena that would result from massive amounts of dust and debris blown into the sky by multiple nuclear bursts.

“And the atmosphere was pushed apart like a scroll when it is rolled together” (Revelation 6:14). Do you know what happens in a nuclear explosion? The atmosphere rolls back on itself! It’s this tremendous rush of air back into the vacuum that causes much of the destruction of a nuclear explosion. John’s words in this verse are a perfect picture of an all out nuclear exchange… The whole world will be literally shaken apart!

As we read the book of Revelation, we find John did not use terms like “nuclear weapons, ICBM’s, or fractional orbital bombs.” Instead we find him describing things like “hail and fire,” “a great mountain burning with fire,” and “a great star… burning like a torch.” This is what we would expect of a First Century man, describing things he had no knowledge of in the only terms he knew to use. Could it be that what John was really witnessing in the Spirit, was an end of the age nuclear holocaust? The effects he describes certainly seem to bear this out

(I can't believe airing on the telly right now, hubby is watching is talking about nuclear weapons and nations like Iran..)

“The explosion of a nuclear weapon is an event of immense power… Within a fraction of a millionth of a second, the nuclear materials and casing of a one megaton weapon are transformed into a packet of energy five times hotter than the center of the sun.”

“Out of this mini-sun bursts a flash of Xrays so intense that the air for several feet around the weapon is heated into an incandescent ball.”

“This little fireball, only a few millionths of a second old, contains the vaporized contents of the weapon, and a vast flux of energy created by the fission and fusion reactions of the nuclear explosion. So immense an amount of energy packed into a tiny space creates temperatures of 100 million degrees centigrade and pressures of millions of pounds per square inch. A violent expansion begins.”

“In less than a thousandth of a second, the fireball of a one-megaton weapon has grown to 440 feet across. In ten seconds, the fireball is more than a mile in diameter.”

It should be evident that what we are talking about is a weapon unparalleled in human history; a weapon with the capacity to obliterate huge cities in seconds. This is a scenario that perfectly fits with the kind of swift, mass destruction spoken of in the book of Revelation. Indeed, considering the widespread death predicted by John, it would be hard for us to imagine anything other than a nuclear holocaust which could come close to producing such carnage.

The poisoning of the waters (Revelation 8:11), the severe reduction in visibility (Revelation 8:12), the death of much of the earth’s vegetation (Revelation 8:7), malignant sores (Revelation 16:2), the end of ocean life (Revelation 16:3), and the inability of the atmosphere to block out harmful ultraviolet rays, resulting in severe burns (Revelation 16:8) are all expected results of nuclear war. The implications of these prophecies is not pretty — this earth has an appointment with a devastation which shall be horrible beyond imagination.

Secular Confirmation
Amazingly, predictions by secular writers parallel the horrific visions of John in nearly every major detail. Contrast the words (in regular print) of secular writer Jonathan Schell author of the book The Fate of the Earth (1970), with what the Bible says (in parenthesis) as he describes the consequences of a nuclear war:

“Bearing in mind that the possible consequences of the detonations of thousands of megatons of nuclear explosives include… the extinction of many ocean species, among them some at the base of the food chain…”
(“And every living creature in the sea died” — Revelation 16:3)

“… the pollution of the whole ecosphere with oxides of nitrogen.”
(“And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night” — Revelation 8:12)

“… a significant decrease in photosynthesis in plants around the world; the scalding and killing of many crops…”
(“And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up” — Revelation 8:7)

“… the increase in rates of cancer and mutation around the world…”
(“… and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast” — Revelation 16:2)

“… the attendant risk of global epidemics…”
(“And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences” — Luke 21:11)

“… the possible poisoning of all vertebrates by sharply increased levels of vitamin D in their skin as a result of increased ultraviolet light.”
(“the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat” — Revelation 16:8)

“… and the outright slaughter on all targeted continents of most human beings and other living things by the initial nuclear radiation, the fireballs, the thermal pulses, the blast waves, the mass fires, and the fall-out from the explosions.”
(“By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed — by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone” — Revelation 9:18).

“Considering that these consequences will all interact with one another in unguessable ways and, furthermore, are in all likelihood an incomplete list… one must conclude that a full-scale nuclear holocaust could lead to the extinction of mankind.”
(“And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened” — Matthew 24:22).

I like the way the article winds down

The good news in all of this is that God has always provided a hiding place whenever He poured out His wrath. In Noah’s flood, that safety was found in the ark. In the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot was told to flee to the mountains. Rahab found safety from the destruction of her city by staying in her house with a scarlet cord tied to the window.

In these last days God’s hiding place will be found, not in a cave in the mountains, not in a mammoth ark, but in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. It was on His Cross that Jesus took the wrath of God upon Himself, in order that those who would put their trust in Him might be spared. The Scriptures tell us, “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

edit /  ...making hell evaporate ;)

[Andrew]

I have been contemplating these ideas the past few days and even mentioned it in a song I wrote and i then I read this post and it seems to match up with my thoughts...Thanks Marie Glen

[marie glen]

    :ty: Andrew! :gsmile: And good job on the song! Please share, if you've a mind to!

[marie glen]

   ---- it makes sense to me that it's not the direct doing of our heavenly Father.. like in Genesis when He told Eve woman would be dominated by man.. not God cursing woman, but as prophecy - male physically stronger than female - and now their being imperfect - bound to happen. As is, to me, man's will being allowed to be fully exercised so the wrong way, can be thoroughly exorcized by openly and fully revealing the results. Not because God is mean, but because He is utterly wise, utterly able, and utterly merciful. Who would want this question to be never thoroughly answered? To every heart and mind "in heaven and earth"..

So I thought I'd repost this shorter version.. As it is SO compelling.. and reveals how this was turned into 'hell' because there was no awareness of modern capabilities. -- How to make hell, and all its dregs totally evaporate.. hell isn't, never was, and never will be. But is TOTAL human fabrication. The UR belief in a temporary one, helpful for a time.. but truth often is progressively revealed.

Secular Confirmation of Revelation, to me revealing no 'hell' whatsoever.. except in imagination.. Since God chooses who believes when.. why would the later gifting of faith be more strident than ours? I think punishment is living through results.. which transforms, enlightens.

-----------------------------
Amazingly, predictions by secular writers PARALLEL the visions of John in nearly EVERY major detail!

Contrast the words (in regular print) of secular writer Jonathan Schell author of the book The Fate of the Earth (1970), with what the Bible says (in parenthesis) as he describes the consequences of a nuclear war:

“Bearing in mind that the possible consequences of the detonations of thousands of megatons of nuclear explosives include… the extinction of many ocean species, among them some at the base of the food chain…”
(“And every living creature in the sea died” — Revelation 16:3)

“… the pollution of the whole ecosphere with oxides of nitrogen.”
(“And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night” — Revelation 8:12)

“… a significant decrease in photosynthesis in plants around the world; the scalding and killing of many crops…”
(“And a third of the trees were burned up, and all green grass was burned up” — Revelation 8:7)

“… the increase in rates of cancer and mutation around the world…”
(“… and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast” — Revelation 16:2)

“… the attendant risk of global epidemics…”
(“And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences” — Luke 21:11)

“… the possible poisoning of all vertebrates by sharply increased levels of vitamin D in their skin as a result of increased ultraviolet light.”
(“the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat” — Revelation 16:8)

“… and the outright slaughter on all targeted continents of most human beings and other living things by the initial nuclear radiation, the fireballs, the thermal pulses, the blast waves, the mass fires, and the fall-out from the explosions.”
(“By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed — by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone” — Revelation 9:18).

“Considering that these consequences will all interact with one another in unguessable ways and, furthermore, are in all likelihood an incomplete list… one must conclude that a full-scale nuclear holocaust could lead to the extinction of mankind.”
(“And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened” — Matthew 24:22).

I like the way the article winds down

The good news in all of this is that God has always provided a hiding place whenever He poured out His wrath. In Noah’s flood, that safety was found in the ark. In the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot was told to flee to the mountains. Rahab found safety from the destruction of her city by staying in her house with a scarlet cord tied to the window.

In these last days God’s hiding place will be found, not in a cave in the mountains, not in a mammoth ark, but in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. It was on His Cross that Jesus took the wrath of God upon Himself, in order that those who would put their trust in Him might be spared. The Scriptures tell us, “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

..revelation, if God wrote it ppl have a right to "hear" it (?)

[marie glen]

Also it's a common belief that christians believe out of fear.. marginalizing faith. Know what I mean? It's kind of commonly believed in some circles that to believe is evidence of weakness.. it's fear of hell that motivates us.. we are shaking in our boots. :laughing7:

It's not that I care what they think, etc.. It's that others, by it, are being robbed of hearing truth. Just another falsehood that misleads..

Yet, the GOOD NEWS of course, is we know ALL will be drawn to Jesus, Jn.12:32. :banana: ..And of course the drawing is occurring now, as it will continue to do until fully fulfilled.

[eaglesway]

God is a consuming fire. In terms of language, that is a metaphor for a very real element of His Almighty and Invisible Being, just like the Wind, the Rock, the Light....

"Behold, He makes His angels winds and His ministers flames of fire"

Light is fire to darkness.


But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness, 4 and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the Lord, as in days gone by, as in former years. Mal 3

"He will be like"- introduction to metaphor- "a refiner's fire".....that which separates base metals from pure gold and silver. So often we think we see silver when it is tin. Gold when it is but brass. When we "come clean" in His presence and become transparent, a broken and a contrite heart becomes the wide open place where the fire becomes a crystal sea of living water, a fountain of life springing out of the innermost being.

The righteous offerings of the broken heart is a sweet savor, the mixed offerings of pride and strife are likely to kindle wildfire and as Aarons sons found, no life can come from strange fire. It is not the "acceptable offering".

So we need not be amazed when a variety of trials fall upon us, these things are for the "purification of our faith", and tho they seem like fire, they are revealing the mixture hidden deep within, so that it can be removed, and the pure gold be molded into a vessel, "fit for the master's use".

"Then you shall make a lampstand of pure gold. The lampstand and its base and its shaft are to be made of hammered work; its cups, its bulbs and its flowers shall be of one piece with it" Exodus 25

[rosered]

does God throw into a burning lake w/o metaphoring it away

  I dont think so Marie ..  Think about it , Jesus is compared to many things  a Lamb , Shepherd , a Light   a Rock .

Jesus spoke in parables to compare  spiritual things to the natural .


  Lovely John!!     amen .......  Jesus/Incorruptible  come to set the world on fire and destroy the works of the devil [ fire  cleansing  purification  is dealing with the devil/corruption  ] Luke 12 ;49

  coming to Zion[Sion ]   the heavenly city ( Revelation 14:1 ),  is a metaphor   and they are  different and yet very significant What may at a glance seem to be a spelling error was in fact a translation error.

The Hebrew word for "Sion" is Siy'on,
an altogether different word than Tsiyown, which is translated "Zion".
The words Tsiyown (Zion) and Siy'on (Sion) are not interchangeable because they identify two different locations:

Mount Zion in Jerusalem and
Mount Hermon, also called Mount Sion, in northern Israel. 
#7865 Siy'on {see-ohn'} from 7863; n pr mont AV - Sion 1; 1 Sion = "lofty" 1) another name for Mount Hermon

#6726 Tsiyown {tsee-yone'} the same (regularly) as 6725; TWOT - 1910; n pr loc AV - Zion 153, Sion 1; 154 Zion = "parched place" 1) another name for Jerusalem especially in the prophetic books.

For me ,  the presence of GOD  .  considered the Lofty One   NAME IS  HOLY Isaiah 57:14–21 and   the Consuming fire   Isaiah  33   https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ISAIAH+33+&version=AMPC

As I can tell ,  the devil is a great imitator,    Matt 24 ,if it were possible even the very elect  would be deceived  , but Jesus told us in advance   with many warnings as well as blessings .

[marie glen]

Amen.. the completed program/administration of the plan/work of God.. will see the cup and the plate entirely clean, and the inside also! No simply cup and plate clean, but inside like a sepulcher/grave! Purity where righteousness will dwell.. individually and collectively.. And of course without all the individual purity, purifying, there can be no collective purity. And without collective purity, there cannot be perfection, purity.

"He comes with fire and His angels.." We cannot deny comes to each of us individually with fire and angels, whether now, this age and side of His coming/the Kingdom, or in the other set time of 1 Cor. 15:24-28 - which must be sometime before - "then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death.. ...28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all." Individually and also universally.. "wherein righteousness will dwell" and rule! yes, love will be THE ruling force.. within each one and within the entire kingdom.
   :banana:

[rosered]

  I love it  sis   Marie!!! 
Amen !!

Amen.. the completed program/administration of the plan/work of God.. will see the cup and the plate entirely clean, and the inside also! No simply cup and plate clean, but inside like a sepulcher/grave! Purity where righteousness will dwell.. individually and collectively.. And of course without all the individual purity, purifying, there can be no collective purity. And without collective purity, there cannot be perfection, purity.

"He comes with fire and His angels.." We cannot deny comes to each of us individually with fire and angels, whether now, this age and side of His coming/the Kingdom, or in the other set time of 1 Cor. 15:24-28 - which must be sometime before - "then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death.. ...28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all." Individually and also universally.. "wherein righteousness will dwell" and rule! yes, love will be THE ruling force.. within each one and within the entire kingdom.
   :banana:

Oh  how I  have considered   Pauls  revelations of Jesus Christ when he said whom will deliver him from the body of death,  where sin dwells [being  a mortal and corruptible image ] and how Jesus bore this image , but yet without any sin   !!

HE bore all the sins of the whole world on His cross !  what an IMAGE    in our minds eye this truly is !

and yet tells us to take up our cross and follow Him   where ever HE  goes ! 

  and   while we are still  in the flesh  our covering for sin is Christ !!   when mortality will be swallowed up in immortality !

when a literal death comes  upon any mortal body , they will be changed in the twinkling of an eye !  I sure have considered  it

I believe some will taste death when they see Him and some are LIVING  already as they meet the LORD in the air ..
  but they will bow the knee and confess the Lord Jesus Christ when they see Him  , they have not developed any  faith  in GOD while they walked the earth  , or was given the chance too  , but  even those whom have pierced Him and  be humbled  ,  because Jesus does say ,'' To the least you have done  unto these you have done unto Me ''..

  THis is why  Jesus told  Martha  , I am the resurrection and the Life   And even if they die they will live and  if they are alive   they will never die ..  each comes in their own order  of appearance before   the LORD !  YOU CANNOT DENY WHAT YOU SEE AND EXPERIENCE AS TRUTH before their eyes ,right ?

1 Cor 15 Where, O Death, is Your Victory?

...53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass:

"Death has been swallowed up in victory." 55"Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"

It is a beautiful   thing the   Father is doing though His Son   for all mankind !!  :dsunny:  :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

Amen, sister. ...but I believe we put on immortality at His literal return, when every eye will see Him.. etc. :banana:

And I believe all who die "still in their sins" will rise - initially - still in their sins. I think our Father is very thorough and the convincing and repenting process is a very important process for learning what God is teaching / writing on the hearts, and is very individual.

...and if that is true, when can Jesus continue the work of drawing all to Him? And this is where we differ, dear sister. I don't believe there is any thought, etc. in death. Jesus says all rise from the tombs.. I think myth got attached to the word hades.. and even to the word sheol! I can think it possible believers are alive during their death..  but not unbelievers. I don't believe the Lord preached to those in death, or hades, the place of the dead.. to those who perished in the flood of Noah. (Why would He only preach to those dead folks and no others?) I believe the verse says He went via the Spirit and preached to them while the ark was being built.. and they were locked into destruction by their disobedience and not listening to the ministering of His Spirit. All, an important part of their overall learning, for of course they too shall rise "after the thousand years". (Rev.20) imo, :gsmile:

And the disobedient angels who "left their original place" and are now locked into deepest darkness / descending darkness? Being now imperfect, they cannot change their course back to perfect, what with being imperfect. So are in chains of darkness. Greek word, of course is tartarus, also fallen prey to myth.. imo  :girlheart: I think they are the very same ones of Rev.12:4 (w/ 1:20).

I think the same myths were attached to the lof. [Which does not take away from God Himself being a consuming / purifying fire.] Which (lof) seems to me to occur at Jesus' return, and at the all in all event of Rev.21:1-5 - after all, death and the grave/hell go to the lof at that very time.. the last enemy overcome, death, thus the grave.. no more death, no more graves.. no graves. Not in (the lower part of, or dust of the) earth nor in the seas.. (Rev.20; Ps.30)
    :Peace2: :HeartThrob:

P.S. - I believe the ancient holy days are the shadow & type of the 2 advents of the Lord
- 1st advent was the passover lamb, the unleavened brd, the firstfruits &  the baptism of pentecost
And in the same way,
Trumpets (of rev. & his return at the last) - 1000yrs later (represented by the 10days between Trumpets & DOA / "after the 1000yrs" - "Great day of Forgiveness" (CEV) / Day of Atonement - the REAL one, an age because - 5days/500 years later, the all in all event and Tabernacles, God will now "tabernacle w/ mankind upon the new Earth / Earth made new (by the fiery all in all event).

Trumpets - 10days/"1000yrs later" - the D O A `day' of 'judgment/review/repentance - 5days/500yrs? later - Tabernacles 

? 3 R's - make that 4, of the great day of forgiveness/atonement - resurrection - review - repentance - & reconciliation of "all" not saved during their lifetime.. Jn.12:32, Jesus will draw ALL.. Ps.22:27, "all the ends of Earth will remember (hebrew - come to their senses) and will turn to the LORD, and ALL families of the nations will worship/rejoice before Him".
   Imo, of course.. (since His 1st advent perfectly - more so than we know - so perfectly fulfilled the Spring holy days).
:cloud9: :girlheart: :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

  Thanks sis Marie , 
I do respect your   faith ...  and appreciate your explaining  it .  :dsunny:

   Even they differ some   from my own  ,it is ok by me  :HeartThrob:  I believe a  lot of    things occured   at  the cross   that many  are still waiting to be  made  known to .  I believe He comes  in the Spirit looking for faith in ones heart  a return when least expecting it .  among other things  , but many things are apparent   as the lawlessness abounding   for sure and being exposed that is literal   and love is   waning , many do not want to hear   the TRUTH    , they have their own   ,,,  someone told me they don't want scriptures  spoken to them  by me any longer   , it just made me sad and  continue  to pray for them anyways  , before I would have been hurt  and  left it all  and never giving another thought  about it    , but not now .  I cannot justify nor  excuse   myself , but hope for the best in everyone  in the end .


  Or I can be wrong  , I know that knowledge is not  what makes us perfect   in Christ , it is the Love  of God  and am a work in progress    :HeartThrob: 

[marie glen]

Thank you, Rose. We are all "a work in progress" that's for sure! It's SO good to know Love will save all.. Someone can ask to hear no more scripture.. but they too, will one day love His Word.. His message, the Truth. :thumbsup:

[rosered]

Thank you, Rose. We are all "a work in progress" that's for sure! It's SO good to know Love will save all.. Someone can ask to hear no more scripture.. but they too, will one day love His Word.. His message, the Truth. :thumbsup:

  AMEN!!  Thank you sis Marie!!   well said !