I found this online earlier, and i want to share it here to show just how 'silly' some of these people are and how many of them 'just dont get' what universalists believe. (MOST dont even try to understand lets face it).
I have edited it to highlight his main points so one can see how ludicrous his statements are...
This god does not care what you do or how you do in this lifetime that you have been given. You can do whatever you want, whether it is for good or ill, because it does not matter. As such this god will treat you like "oh you are all loved by me"
Even more so, this god would not be holy, this god would just be there, like a person on your television screen, and just as two dimensional. This god cannot be holy because the very nature of holiness means that the god would see specifically measuring by himself what is good and what is bad.
Even more, the grace that this kind of god offers to one and all would be about as cheap as a man buying a wedding ring for his hopeful wife at a vending machine that charges 25 cents. In other words, the grace that this god that is said to be offered by the authors I have examined would be a hollow and pointless grace because it does not answer the questions of our hearts and the actions by us through life.
This kind of grace is superficial and meaningless at the very least, at the very worst, it is a slap in the face toward all of us who have struggled in the race of life-those of us who have been raped, abused, those of us who have lost loved ones in school shootings and in robberies. This kind of grace the authors insist is the kind of grace that is really not grace at all, its just fluff from a pillow.
He sounds like he really needs to learn what forgiveness is.
Im reminded of the parable Jesus told about the workers in the field. Some worked all day and some only for a short while and each were paid the SAME. The ones that worked all day got mad because they thought they should earn more.
The boss said "Why are you angry because i am generous".
The man also seems to think that being raped or murdered gives someone some special right to be forgiven or praised by God, that somehow if something bad happens to someone, that 'earns' them MORE, yet i bet if you asked him "are the thousands of Jews (that didnt believe in Jesus) Hitler killed in hell"?, he would say "YOUR DARN RIGHT!"
This is the most PEACEFUL Christian forum i have EVER been in in my life.
The ET'er ones were by FAR the WORST forums i have EVER seen...Worse than atheism forums or even over 18 sex fuelled forums...At least many of those people wouldnt laugh if someone was burning for eternity...At least their hearts were a little warmer than that!
Believing in Universal Salvation DOES NOT mean we all dont care about sin. I know for myself that when i believed in UR, it actually made me WANT to please God more, because FINALLY and AT LONG LAST, i could see that God was actually not a maniac that would fry everyone forever and that 'he was worthy' of worship and that he was NOTHING like all the backstabbing, prideful, holier than thou, hell breathing, people shunning, long prayer ranting 'Christians' i had known throughout my life in various churches.
The God i worship WILL save all...I mean, he wants to do it, so who is going to stop him...People, is a human will REALLY going to conquer God's will? I mean COME ON!
God can DO what he wants, and even if someone were to say after 300000 years of roasting in the lake of fire
"Sorry God, still dont like you, nah nah nah nah nah", im sure rather than get rid of him forever, God would think nothing of purifying him a bit more until that man DOES conform and save his soul. God has all the time in the world to sort out each persons salvation!
I would do it if I had the power! And im a mere human!
I couldn't hold my worst enemy over a fire that wasnt going to do him any long term good, for 3 seconds (well maybe just 3), never mind for eternity!
Sorry, rant over lol.
If there's one thing I've never understood, it's the inability of most ET adherents to recognize that the only difference between their doctrine and UR is that the latter says that God's arms continue to be open after death.
Quote from: jesushandsarekindhands on October 20, 2009, 01:07:32 AM
This kind of grace is superficial and meaningless at the very least, at the very worst, it is a slap in the face toward all of us who have struggled in the race of life-those of us who have been raped, abused, those of us who have lost loved ones in school shootings and in robberies. This kind of grace the authors insist is the kind of grace that is really not grace at all, its just fluff from a pillow.[/color]
This speaks of nothing but wanting revenge to me. He apparently thinks God can only be just by eternally torturing rapists, abusers and murderers. The thing that always gets me about this mindset is...if any of those "terrible" people said a prayer 5 seconds before they died...no body would have a problem with them going to heaven.
Quote from: Gab on October 20, 2009, 02:00:35 AM
If there's one thing I've never understood, it's the inability of most ET adherents to recognize that the only difference between their doctrine and UR is that the latter says that God's arms continue to be open after death.
Gab,
IMO they feel attacked when confronted with a different view instead of discussing they start ad hominem attacks. In this article mostly against the UR-god. It's just a modern way of burning heretics. They would have in the cheering crowd back then.
Quote from: Gab on October 20, 2009, 02:00:35 AM
only difference between their doctrine and UR is that the latter says that God's arms continue to be open after death.
Calvinism+Armenism=UR
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 20, 2009, 08:53:52 AM
Gab,
IMO they feel attacked when confronted with a different view instead of discussing they start ad hominem attacks. In this article mostly against the UR-god. It's just a modern way of burning heretics. They would have in the cheering crowd back then.
I understand that, but I don't get why their objection to UR is basically always combined with a straight-up misrepresentation of what UR is. I suppose perhaps it's the case that if they actually acknowledged what proponents of UR were
actually saying, it'd be very difficult to argue against them. :Whistle:
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 20, 2009, 08:55:27 AM
Calvinism+Armenism=UR
Yeah, I remember hearing that being noted before - I think it's a very interesting (and true) way of looking at it.
The last will be first.
The great reversal.
I think everyone will get a little shock.
QuoteThis kind of grace is superficial and meaningless at the very least, at the very worst, it is a slap in the face toward all of us who have struggled in the race of life-those of us who have been raped, abused, those of us who have lost loved ones in school shootings and in robberies. This kind of grace the authors insist is the kind of grace that is really not grace at all, its just fluff from a pillow.
I know from girls who have been raped by Catholic clergymen, they are very antichrist, according to that men's opinion they will go to hell also.
the point is, there can be no greater evil then everlasting torment and everybody has been a victim once in his life, often victims become offenders, if eternal hell where true, countless victims would suffer the same fate as the people who did harm to them.
Only remedial punishment can restore the damage that has been done and is therefore just.
Isaiah 40
4 Every valley shall be raised up,
every mountain and hill made low;
the rough ground shall become level,
the rugged places a plain.
5And the glory of the Lord will be revealed,
and all mankind together will see it.
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWzELDAKH6Y&feature=related