U.R. affirmations

[marie glen]

http://tentmaker.org/forum/rules-and-faq/77-ultimate-reconciliation-and-renewal-scriptures/msg118063/#msg118063

:thumbsup:

[jugghead]

Who by worrying (taking thought about "what if?") can add even an hour (cubit/measure) to his life ..... since things of the Father are timeless and we know that He uses physical examples to show us spiritual meaning ..... according to the physical we get older or grow according to time ..... but with the Father, Son, Holy Spirit we grow according to understanding .....

which is why I see we cannot add a single hour to our life as .....we cannot add a single understanding to our life simply because all understanding comes from the Father through Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Have we not entered into His rest and know that He gives at the appointed time?

my  :2c:

[CST]

I certainly think, at the very least, this verse -

55 "Where, O death, is your victory?
    Where, O death, is your sting?"

could be thought to support (Christian) Universal Redemption as to think this doesn't include all death, as in the death of our loved ones, especially, would be a very narrow way of thinking..  :girlheart:

True, but St. Paul explains how he is defining 'sting' and 'death' here in the very next verse.

56 "The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law."

And just to be fair to the text:

57, 58 "But thanks be to God, who us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable always in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

I continue to worry I'm one of them.

I'm kind of the opposite.. in that I don't worry enough! I don't worry about how good or not good enough I'm doing.. okay, well, maybe about whether or not I'm reading my bible enough, praying enough.. which the answer is no, not enough.. but I guess I'm one of those "once saved, always saved" believing persons.. tho if I started to cheat and steal or whatnot, then I would be worried.. but every day human flaws I'm not surprised in any way to have them and view them humorously.. I do have some carnal struggle.. have been dieting all my life I think.. or wanting to.. am basically lazy, been known to cuss, even as a born again believer.. but I take it to heart that my sins (flaws, imperfections) are covered as far as my standing with God.. so though I don't go out of my way to cuss, be in a bad mood.. fall short.. and try to avoid them.. I don't get concerned if they happen.. I mumur up a forgive me.. maybe call myself a dweeb and really don't worry about any of it... If I found myself not caring about others.. then i'd be worried, because to me that's the measuring stick... Of course, I've been a christian hermit - so to speak - all these years.. not been 'churched' so the only one judging my behavior has been me (yes, I'm sure that could be dangerous, especially if I wasn't reading my bible!)... I've been through times of worrying, of thinking i didn't  measure up, then I figured that if I can cut other people some slack, why not me? I figure those who will lose something at Jesus' return will be those who seemed as though they maybe 'had it all'.. but didn't - when they got down to it - really have Jesus, and w/o Jesus, ultimately there is nothing..

I could be wrong of course, in which case I may regret not being a little tougher on myself.. but i had such a strict and rather harsh upbringing.. so i try to cut myself some slack, like I do others... I figure everybody gets criticized.. judged or whatnot, works hard, carries their own burdens.. I don't want to pile on, so why should I pile on to my own back either? - "My yoke is easy, My burden light"

I've been visiting other forums and there can sometimes be a harsh spirit.. seems like the attitude can be we're all supposed to mope around, fearing God.. struggling in the flesh..  But the fruit of that doesn't seem to me, to be all that good...

I figure, ultimately, even the 2nd resurrection - those who "die still in their sins" (as unbelievers) thus rise still in their sins, even if I were of that group.. I believe they will 'catch up to' the 1st resurrection ultimately.. "All in all" with all of us being most blessed and all our loved ones there with us.. In other words, all things, every one, and every thing will be perfection.. nothing less.. (ultimately) ...because of this attitude, I am, altogether, too carefree...

:doh: my keyboard (mouse sensitivity?) has gone nutz please pardon any typos..

Aah, :hug:

Nothing you say there is wrong. I'm pretty sure we're ideally not supposed to worry and Jesus does say His burden is light. But He also says take up your cross and follow me so...

My concern isn't really my sins it is my complete impotence and failure to achieve anything. I'm inately idle, have no labour so I can't be labouring in the Lord and if I am like the guy who buried his one talent I can't even remember where I buried it or ever having it so the guy is up on me (well, except that I don't think like him0.

Suppoedly we do all end up in the same place but I'm seen a thread that argues otherwise.

[rosered]

Some  great thoughts sis Marie!!   

I do believe bro  Chris    , you brought up    our own  battles of being   both   Spirit and flesh   , for me   Marie  just described  her place of being in   Gods grace  , and growing in truth and grace 

Knowing  being   much more carnal in    thoughts and nature   we DO   feel the sting of death    much more often  in this limited mortal body
  We do not understand fully yet what being in the POWER OF THE SPIRIT    and complete in it really means   yet ..

For me personally    and as truthful as can be about it  all , leaves me conflicted  often

   on the one hand    I believe already    when we literally die    and the  body of death is totally done away with in CHRIST

But there is this  LIFE IN CHRIST WHOM LIVES, as we die , that ol carnal nature   that still desires [sting of death]     in the here and now for those called

By the Grace of God to experience   spiritual freedom      that we know the law  written in our hearts  does according to GODS GRACE and growing in that  truth and grace

  we overcome by what ? HIM    to me it has always been up to God  for everyone   , all  creation was made for His glory    and  to experience    His glory on earth as it is in heaven , you must simply   love   the life He has given you   , I do not believe that  the Life in the Spirit ever dies or knows   that sting of death any longer  , It was Jesus letting us know  this   and come to tell us so ,  and not to fret or be afraid   for the Light does Shine in the darkness

You are spirit and you are flesh and they are enemies with each other   , that is the power of  thinking    of which you one are and that fruit  you eat of .

one is experiencing the corruption and the other is experiencing life in the Spirit already ...  and discerning between the two   types    of mindsets .in Adam all die , but in Christ be made alive ..

  John 11 ...24Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.

" 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"...

It really is a  simple thing    when   thinking of  it  , but it is a hard thing to  experience  both life and death at the same time

I  think      the best example was   when I understood , Jesus   telling  Peter , get behind me satan !! , you are  not  tasting the things of God [SPIRIT] but the things that be of men [Adam]

When Peter was arguing  over Jesus going to the cross   and  Peter did not want   JESUS  to leave them  , he wanted the   Kingdom of God to be  flesh and blood  with Spirit and truth    all mixed together  , but God had separated this from the beginning  ,  He was desiring the     tangible things, he  could taste and touch and feel     that are not holy , but temporary  things that rot and  decay  in this  realm without the  breath of God in them  all   LIVING   THINGS die .

I just want to help  , not harm anyone , just sharing those things  simply    that helped me  greatly to divide   what is Spirit is spirit and what is flesh is flesh    and learning the difference between the two   realms of thought  by the grace of Gods Spirit and truth  .   

We   all have  always belonged to Him  , realizing that   finally , has  been a  part of the overcoming in Christ,   whom are all things  made by  Him and for Him and though Him   as  Gods glory   in the earth [ chaos ] as it is in heaven [ His peace]

 
more and more Spirit and  less and less flesh  as it is   being destroyed in the earth ,  till we can walk in the Spirit  fully

[eaglesway]

The blood of Jesus is sufficient for all of our sins.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

No one is worthy. We all stumble in many ways. He loves us and will never leave us or forsake us.

"If our hearts condemn us, He is greater than our hearts and knows all things." 1 John 3:20

[rosered]

The blood of Jesus is sufficient for all of our sins.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

No one is worthy. We all stumble in many ways. He loves us and will never leave us or forsake us.

"If our hearts condemn us, He is greater than our hearts and knows all things." 1 John 3:20

  Amen!!!!

[CST]

Who by worrying (taking thought about "what if?") can add even an hour (cubit/measure) to his life ..... since things of the Father are timeless and we know that He uses physical examples to show us spiritual meaning ..... according to the physical we get older or grow according to time ..... but with the Father, Son, Holy Spirit we grow according to understanding .....

which is why I see we cannot add a single hour to our life as .....we cannot add a single understanding to our life simply because all understanding comes from the Father through Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Have we not entered into His rest and know that He gives at the appointed time?

my  :2c:

<Sigh> Knowing that doesn't make be worry any less though, I worry because I worry and then I worry all the more.

Some  great thoughts sis Marie!!   

I do believe bro  Chris    , you brought up    our own  battles of being   both   Spirit and flesh   , for me   Marie  just described  her place of being in   Gods grace  , and growing in truth and grace 

Knowing  being   much more carnal in    thoughts and nature   we DO   feel the sting of death    much more often  in this limited mortal body
  We do not understand fully yet what being in the POWER OF THE SPIRIT    and complete in it really means   yet ..

For me personally    and as truthful as can be about it  all , leaves me conflicted  often

   on the one hand    I believe already    when we literally die    and the  body of death is totally done away with in CHRIST

But there is this  LIFE IN CHRIST WHOM LIVES, as we die , that ol carnal nature   that still desires [sting of death]     in the here and now for those called

By the Grace of God to experience   spiritual freedom      that we know the law  written in our hearts  does according to GODS GRACE and growing in that  truth and grace

  we overcome by what ? HIM    to me it has always been up to God  for everyone   , all  creation was made for His glory    and  to experience    His glory on earth as it is in heaven , you must simply   love   the life He has given you   , I do not believe that  the Life in the Spirit ever dies or knows   that sting of death any longer  , It was Jesus letting us know  this   and come to tell us so ,  and not to fret or be afraid   for the Light does Shine in the darkness

You are spirit and you are flesh and they are enemies with each other   , that is the power of  thinking    of which you one are and that fruit  you eat of .

one is experiencing the corruption and the other is experiencing life in the Spirit already ...  and discerning between the two   types    of mindsets .in Adam all die , but in Christ be made alive ..

  John 11 ...24Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.

" 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"...

It really is a  simple thing    when   thinking of  it  , but it is a hard thing to  experience  both life and death at the same time

I  think      the best example was   when I understood , Jesus   telling  Peter , get behind me satan !! , you are  not  tasting the things of God [SPIRIT] but the things that be of men [Adam]

When Peter was arguing  over Jesus going to the cross   and  Peter did not want   JESUS  to leave them  , he wanted the   Kingdom of God to be  flesh and blood  with Spirit and truth    all mixed together  , but God had separated this from the beginning  ,  He was desiring the     tangible things, he  could taste and touch and feel     that are not holy , but temporary  things that rot and  decay  in this  realm without the  breath of God in them  all   LIVING   THINGS die .

I just want to help  , not harm anyone , just sharing those things  simply    that helped me  greatly to divide   what is Spirit is spirit and what is flesh is flesh    and learning the difference between the two   realms of thought  by the grace of Gods Spirit and truth  .   

We   all have  always belonged to Him  , realizing that   finally , has  been a  part of the overcoming in Christ,   whom are all things  made by  Him and for Him and though Him   as  Gods glory   in the earth [ chaos ] as it is in heaven [ His peace]

 
more and more Spirit and  less and less flesh  as it is   being destroyed in the earth ,  till we can walk in the Spirit  fully

I'm sure I did, probably several times because this makes my head spin and I struggle to know exactly what I think but frequent gravitate to things like this. I'll try to explain it this God.

God made the world and all the things of the world then He made us and put us in the world and be gravitate towards the things of the world because they're what we're most familiar with and are closest to us. Following this to its conclusion God, the Holy One source of all Holiness seems to have made an awful lot of unholy things. Hmm, does that sound right to you?

Anyway presuming He has He's made the world filled it up and then put us in it and then when we become attracted to all the "unholy" things that He's put there and come to find we enjoy it He interrupts us. Now remember we don't get to choose what we enjoy we just find that we do.

And when we have done so God comes along and says, no you can't no near that, it's bad for you I forbid it. Now to a bunch of children as we are this isn't like a loving father come along and showing how much He cares about us it's like the big bully of a bigger kid coming along and stamping on all our toys because they're 'carnal'. Well they're not carnal because of anything we decided and our liking them isn't our fault. Does that really sound reasonable? Not to a lot of skeptics that for sure.

If Jesus asked me the question He asked Martha I'm not sure I could honestly answer 'yes', I'd be thinking but I'm not sure whether I really 'believe it' the way He means 'believe it' this is my concern.

Paul may say our works will be burned up but we'll be saved as by fire, but since James says faith without works is dead, it would seem my faith is definitely dead. As is anyone who's works gets burned up, because they've been burned up they haven't got any either. So when Paul says saved as by fire he presumably means in the second or third order too.

The blood of Jesus is sufficient for all of our sins.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

No one is worthy. We all stumble in many ways. He loves us and will never leave us or forsake us.

"If our hearts condemn us, He is greater than our hearts and knows all things." 1 John 3:20

Yeah, big 'if'. I have absolutely no idea what my sins are any more. Quite possibly everything.

[rosered]

I'm sure I did, probably several times because this makes my head spin and I struggle to know exactly what I think but frequent gravitate to things like this. I'll try to explain it this God.

God made the world and all the things of the world then He made us and put us in the world and be gravitate towards the things of the world because they're what we're most familiar with and are closest to us. Following this to its conclusion God, the Holy One source of all Holiness seems to have made an awful lot of unholy things. Hmm, does that sound right to you?

Anyway presuming He has He's made the world filled it up and then put us in it and then when we become attracted to all the "unholy" things that He's put there and come to find we enjoy it He interrupts us. Now remember we don't get to choose what we enjoy we just find that we do.

And when we have done so God comes along and says, no you can't no near that, it's bad for you I forbid it. Now to a bunch of children as we are this isn't like a loving father come along and showing how much He cares about us it's like the big bully of a bigger kid coming along and stamping on all our toys because they're 'carnal'. Well they're not carnal because of anything we decided and our liking them isn't our fault. Does that really sound reasonable? Not to a lot of skeptics that for sure.

If Jesus asked me the question He asked Martha I'm not sure I could honestly answer 'yes', I'd be thinking but I'm not sure whether I really 'believe it' the way He means 'believe it' this is my concern.

Paul may say our works will be burned up but we'll be saved as by fire, but since James says faith without works is dead, it would seem my faith is definitely dead. As is anyone who's works gets burned up, because they've been burned up they haven't got any either. So when Paul says saved as by fire he presumably means in the second or third order too.

  Thank you I was  going to put that scripture up    about all our works being burned up   CST! 
  And did not for the sake of a long post  , all drawn out ...
I am a realist too , 
Did God make me that way and am not to complain about  the   great   POTTER . when placed   on potters wheel  going around and round   before the fire and kiln   to be set ?
  Used and broken in the   earths handing  of that precious Word inside it ?

  I am not so much a fantasy land   thinker these days ...
  Yet I am waiting my turn to be changed    as well

  I was extremely comforted to know  and read Ecc , 3     especially   the part about God setting eternity in our hearts     and we can never know the work of God in it    from the beginning to the end      ...... 

I do believe this  world   is the small step where our faith is  developed    into greater works than these  because JESUS went back to the Father from where He come from  in the first place and what if that tiny seed  of the WORD  being deposited in our hearts is what returns also ?       

  There is a time for everything and never feel ready ?  , but God is the one whom decides    when the time to die is and the time to live and  plant etc ?   


What if this was all the tree of knowledge of good and evil experience and we are tasting of both  death and life ?     

  Eve   , mother of all the living ,,, found it   appealing to the eye  and making one wise ,   what if the carnal mind is satan's only entrance to the heart ? so he can reign     for a time  over the bodies    of death , till Life comes for the dead  in Christ to rise  ?  the tree of Life is the goal   and to eat of its fruit to have  HIS LIFE in us ..

     Gen 3  The Serpent's Deception
...5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise,

she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.


  What if the  knowing the  nakedness is the sin  and exposed   for what it is ? 
and to be  clothed in Christ is the covering     , His blood is what  we now must eat and drink  more and more of , to have  His Life in us ?

  More of Him and less of her  , the great   whore of religious   luxury with the kings of the earth ?

What if it is as simple as Abraham   whom was a friend of God and walked with HIM ?     Sounds spiritual to me    , God was never the God of the dead  or the flesh   but of the Spirit and life   found in it  and LOVE is that   root of the fruits  of the Spirit
   rooted and grounded    in Love in Christ !

  two scriptures saying the same things 

  16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
   rooted and grounded in  Christ the LOVE OF GOD shed abroad  in our hearts ,   this LIGHT so it grows in  the  truth and grace and  increase   of God ...

Alive in Christ
6Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ....

Learning to hear His voice and  obey it ,   hearing what the Spirit is saying  and trusting in it   completely ,  now this  easier said than   done , I do believe we get to learn though all them experiences  as to building Up in Him   only   and let the   other things alone     ,  instead of the visa  versa      when we  first believed in salvation    , cause we do tend to  do as we know   at first and our salvation is nearer than when we first believed ....   

[jugghead]

worry is just another form of fear ..... does not love cast out all fear?

[darryl]

worry is just another form of fear ..... does not love cast out all fear?

yes...fear based religion includes love but an awful lot of nasty 'fear' and worry...and no wonder..if one believes in a god who is capable of tormenting human beings forever without end or any mercy at all  that must create alot of worry and fear inside...both fear and worry  for oneself and certainly  fear for one's loved ones you worry about going there (to  never ending torment in hell ) :sigh:

[jugghead]

worry is just another form of fear ..... does not love cast out all fear?

yes...fear based religion includes love but an awful lot of nasty 'fear' and worry...and no wonder..if one believes in a god who is capable of tormenting human beings forever without end or any mercy at all  that must create alot of worry and fear inside...both fear and worry  for oneself and certainly  fear for one's loved ones you worry about going there (to  never ending torment in hell ) :sigh:

:thumbsup: Agreed ...... worry is the torment of self, of both the heart and the mind (soul)

[lastpost]

"Learning to hear His voice and  obey it ,   hearing what the Spirit is saying  and trusting in it   completely ,  now this  easier said than   done , I do believe we get to learn though all them experiences  as to building Up in Him   only   and let the   other things alone     ,  instead of the visa  versa      when we  first believed in salvation    , cause we do tend to  do as we know   at first and our salvation is nearer than when we first believed .... "

This is very good and has a strong relevance to this...

I have absolutely no idea what my sins are any more. Quite possibly everything.

I see this as about temptation and obedience. In my opinion, these two words, properly understood, go a long way to explaining the bigger picture.

In ancient days the people of that time – the children of Israel – were relatively undeveloped in their spiritual minds. They required the "thou shalt nots". Today, even those who have received only an ethical teaching do not need to be told not to murder and not to steal – they know. But in order to protect the children of Israel in days of old from themselves and the evil influences around, the God of their salvation had to say through His chosen mediator: "thou shalt not".

Later on, Christ was able to speak in a different tone to those children now that their consciousness contained a deeply embedded understanding of right and wrong as far as awareness of sin was concerned. A different tone - so it is with spiritual development of humanity, as slow as it might appear, but it happens according to God's overall plans. There comes a time when a different tone is required by the spiritual needs of humanity.

And today, a greater measure of freedom and control has been gained over impulses which are primitive. Now the temptations come in a subtle form which is sometimes not even noticed until it is too late and the damage is done and only through remorse are things set aright – far more subtle temptations than those older injunctions were meant to address.

Personally, I made a commitment to the higher Self within and to my Father God that I would be a better person in His service, to always try harder, and to thank God that Jesus Christ represented Him for all humanity to benefit from His sweet influence which He laid down through His life-time of care and work, and by His taking up His Mission as He went about teaching and healing and preaching His Gospel of the Kingdom of God, and by the demonstration of His love upon the Cross.

That commitment brings about a deep change in a person's heart and mind. That person seeks the righteous path. That person is seeking the Will of God in his or her life. Yet the habits developed whilst living under another ruler have been etched into the physical mind and occasionally a snap-back is felt - but the same rule of habit works the other way too for the glory of God, and victory after victory becomes the norm - but always beware and be prepared because the enemy is always looking for the gap caused by the missing brick into which to fire the darts that cause the heart to ache.

So, during that life, there will be thousands upon thousands of temptations and many choices to make.

I believe, there are base and gross sins and there are sins of a different character, far more subtle, far more difficult to pin down and identify. But all sins are outside of Christ who lives within, who sits on His throne, and the time must come when Christ rules completely and obedience to Him is in perfect harmony where sin and death have ceased to exist.

This is where obedience comes in. This is where faith and trust come in.

Obedience because it is true protection, it is the spiritual life and the power to live it.

Faith and trust because the person is not sure of what these subtle temptations are. Therefore the person has to pray to God and have the faith and trust that He will answer.

"Is this a sin? Is that a sin? Am I being arbitrary because my baser self has gained the high ground or is this a fair decision? Am I clean enough to approach the Holy Spirit and have I ensured there are no lurking sins in my mind? Does this come up to the highest standards of love expected by my God and does He mind me having what the earthly-minded take for granted? I wish I could know, will you tell me please God?"

God knows that the child is growing up and the Spirit within has plans for that child, and although God could make it plain what is the path to follow, it is left up to the child to believe that the choice they make is the right choice because they have asked for guidance.

And that is where faith and trust comes in. It is no use asking God for guidance and then not believing that He has heard and given the guidance. No, God has heard and God, the perfect Father, is leaving it up to the child for the course of action to take – to cooperate with Him, blending the will with His Will so that His Will is done. So whatever course of action the child takes, that child should believe that God will guide that child into the right path on which to travel. Faith and trust – the child grows.

So my opinion is renew the heart and mind with prayer and meditation every day and renew the commitment to always seek the highest and the best and never settle for second, third, fourth or fifth best because anything but first best influences others, so the responsibility is great. That is my opinion. There will be failures but the time comes when every temptation to sin is seen for what it is and is overcome by the power of the Christ within – He is Lord, one just has to learn to recognise Him – and what a beautiful treasure – the beautiful treasure which instructs through the power of love and which demonstrates, in a tiny measure because it goes well beyond one's ability to endure, the longing and yearning felt for each and every one of His children. When that kind of love is felt for others in the tiniest measure, then words, pettiness and all differences fade into obscurity as the only matter of moment is seeking His Will that He might show a way of Service to relieve His suffering for His children.

[rosered]

worry is just another form of fear ..... does not love cast out all fear?

  Fear of the unknown , till we get to Know    the heart of God though Jesus Christ   ,God whom is Love,  that cast out the fear   :HeartThrob:

Rejoicing in Trials
...3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.

4 And let endurance have its perfect result,

so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

5But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him....

 

[jugghead]

worry is just another form of fear ..... does not love cast out all fear?

  Fear of the unknown , till we get to Know    the heart of God though Jesus Christ   ,God whom is Love,  that cast out the fear   :HeartThrob:

Rejoicing in Trials
...3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.

4 And let endurance have its perfect result,

so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

5But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him....

Amen Rose :iagree:
and that is how we receive:

"the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:7)

[rosered]

"Is this a sin? Is that a sin? Am I being arbitrary because my baser self has gained the high ground or is this a fair decision? Am I clean enough to approach the Holy Spirit and have I ensured there are no lurking sins in my mind? Does this come up to the highest standards of love expected by my God and does He mind me having what the earthly-minded take for granted? I wish I could know, will you tell me please God?"

God knows that the child is growing up and the Spirit within has plans for that child, and although God could make it plain what is the path to follow, it is left up to the child to believe that the choice they make is the right choice because they have asked for guidance.

And that is where faith and trust comes in. It is no use asking God for guidance and then not believing that He has heard and given the guidance. No, God has heard and God, the perfect Father, is leaving it up to the child for the course of action to take – to cooperate with Him, blending the will with His Will so that His Will is done. So whatever course of action the child takes, that child should believe that God will guide that child into the right path on which to travel. Faith and trust – the child grows.

Amen , what is flesh is flesh and what is spirit is Spirit   and they are worlds apart  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

worry is just another form of fear ..... does not love cast out all fear?

  Fear of the unknown , till we get to Know    the heart of God though Jesus Christ   ,God whom is Love,  that cast out the fear   :HeartThrob:

Rejoicing in Trials
...3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.

4 And let endurance have its perfect result,

so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

5But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him....

Amen Rose :iagree:
and that is how we receive:

"the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:7)

  amen , dwell on the things above ! :dsunny:
if there be anything lovely  anything  pure dwell on these Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

1Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. 3For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God....

[jugghead]

In ancient days the people of that time – the children of Israel – were relatively undeveloped in their spiritual minds. They required the "thou shalt nots". Today, even those who have received only an ethical teaching do not need to be told not to murder and not to steal – they know. But in order to protect the children of Israel in days of old from themselves and the evil influences around, the God of their salvation had to say through His chosen mediator: "thou shalt not".

Seeing all of mankind throughout time as one child being taught by the Father is to see the love of a Father

[darryl]

worry is just another form of fear ..... does not love cast out all fear?

yes...fear based religion includes love but an awful lot of nasty 'fear' and worry...and no wonder..if one believes in a god who is capable of tormenting human beings forever without end or any mercy at all  that must create alot of worry and fear inside...both fear and worry  for oneself and certainly  fear for one's loved ones you worry about going there (to  never ending torment in hell ) :sigh:

:thumbsup: Agreed ...... worry is the torment of self, of both the heart and the mind (soul)

yup !  :thumbsup:

[CST]

I'm sure I did, probably several times because this makes my head spin and I struggle to know exactly what I think but frequent gravitate to things like this. I'll try to explain it this God.

God made the world and all the things of the world then He made us and put us in the world and be gravitate towards the things of the world because they're what we're most familiar with and are closest to us. Following this to its conclusion God, the Holy One source of all Holiness seems to have made an awful lot of unholy things. Hmm, does that sound right to you?

Anyway presuming He has He's made the world filled it up and then put us in it and then when we become attracted to all the "unholy" things that He's put there and come to find we enjoy it He interrupts us. Now remember we don't get to choose what we enjoy we just find that we do.

And when we have done so God comes along and says, no you can't no near that, it's bad for you I forbid it. Now to a bunch of children as we are this isn't like a loving father come along and showing how much He cares about us it's like the big bully of a bigger kid coming along and stamping on all our toys because they're 'carnal'. Well they're not carnal because of anything we decided and our liking them isn't our fault. Does that really sound reasonable? Not to a lot of skeptics that for sure.

If Jesus asked me the question He asked Martha I'm not sure I could honestly answer 'yes', I'd be thinking but I'm not sure whether I really 'believe it' the way He means 'believe it' this is my concern.

Paul may say our works will be burned up but we'll be saved as by fire, but since James says faith without works is dead, it would seem my faith is definitely dead. As is anyone who's works gets burned up, because they've been burned up they haven't got any either. So when Paul says saved as by fire he presumably means in the second or third order too.

  Thank you I was  going to put that scripture up    about all our works being burned up   CST! 
  And did not for the sake of a long post  , all drawn out ...
I am a realist too , 
Did God make me that way and am not to complain about  the   great   POTTER . when placed   on potters wheel  going around and round   before the fire and kiln   to be set ?
  Used and broken in the   earths handing  of that precious Word inside it ?

  I am not so much a fantasy land   thinker these days ...
  Yet I am waiting my turn to be changed    as well

  I was extremely comforted to know  and read Ecc , 3     especially   the part about God setting eternity in our hearts     and we can never know the work of God in it    from the beginning to the end      ...... 

I do believe this  world   is the small step where our faith is  developed    into greater works than these  because JESUS went back to the Father from where He come from  in the first place and what if that tiny seed  of the WORD  being deposited in our hearts is what returns also ?       

  There is a time for everything and never feel ready ?  , but God is the one whom decides    when the time to die is and the time to live and  plant etc ?   


What if this was all the tree of knowledge of good and evil experience and we are tasting of both  death and life ?     

  Eve   , mother of all the living ,,, found it   appealing to the eye  and making one wise ,   what if the carnal mind is satan's only entrance to the heart ? so he can reign     for a time  over the bodies    of death , till Life comes for the dead  in Christ to rise  ?  the tree of Life is the goal   and to eat of its fruit to have  HIS LIFE in us ..

     Gen 3  The Serpent's Deception
...5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

6When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise,

she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.


  What if the  knowing the  nakedness is the sin  and exposed   for what it is ? 
and to be  clothed in Christ is the covering     , His blood is what  we now must eat and drink  more and more of , to have  His Life in us ?

  More of Him and less of her  , the great   whore of religious   luxury with the kings of the earth ?

What if it is as simple as Abraham   whom was a friend of God and walked with HIM ?     Sounds spiritual to me    , God was never the God of the dead  or the flesh   but of the Spirit and life   found in it  and LOVE is that   root of the fruits  of the Spirit
   rooted and grounded    in Love in Christ !

  two scriptures saying the same things 

  16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
   rooted and grounded in  Christ the LOVE OF GOD shed abroad  in our hearts ,   this LIGHT so it grows in  the  truth and grace and  increase   of God ...

Alive in Christ
6Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ....

Learning to hear His voice and  obey it ,   hearing what the Spirit is saying  and trusting in it   completely ,  now this  easier said than   done , I do believe we get to learn though all them experiences  as to building Up in Him   only   and let the   other things alone     ,  instead of the visa  versa      when we  first believed in salvation    , cause we do tend to  do as we know   at first and our salvation is nearer than when we first believed ....

Bleuugghh!

I still hate that scripture about the great potter. I first encountered it when I accepted ET and to read it in context it just sounds like an argument for predetermination and a way to say that no one can complain if God has made the to ultimately go to Hell forever. Can the pot challenge the potter? If the potter gives the pot awareness and then claims to love the pot like all His other pots that He made for special purpose, yes it can.

I'm very wary of Ecclesiastes. This is the book that opens declaring that 'all is vanity'. Really? Is God is the habit of making vain things en masse? I wouldn't have thought so. That said the part your referencing is rather nice.

It's interesting you reference that part of the Eden story but don't think of the part that led to it in this case.

God gave to man, as food for his fleshy appetite, all the trees in the garden, excepting that one. And he was permitted to indulge that appetite and he appears to have had no appetite for the tree of knowledge until the serpent put it in the woman's head.

Now suddenly the spirit and the flesh are enemies and the spirit apparently seeks the good and the flesh the evil but why. And surely they aren't meant to remain enemies.

worry is just another form of fear ..... does not love cast out all fear?

Perfect love does, but who of us has that?

[CST]

worry is just another form of fear ..... does not love cast out all fear?

yes...fear based religion includes love but an awful lot of nasty 'fear' and worry...and no wonder..if one believes in a god who is capable of tormenting human beings forever without end or any mercy at all  that must create alot of worry and fear inside...both fear and worry  for oneself and certainly  fear for one's loved ones you worry about going there (to  never ending torment in hell ) :sigh:

Or if you believe God doesn't care for anything that you care for. It's a very unpleasant position to be in.

"Learning to hear His voice and  obey it ,   hearing what the Spirit is saying  and trusting in it   completely ,  now this  easier said than   done , I do believe we get to learn though all them experiences  as to building Up in Him   only   and let the   other things alone     ,  instead of the visa  versa      when we  first believed in salvation    , cause we do tend to  do as we know   at first and our salvation is nearer than when we first believed .... "

This is very good and has a strong relevance to this...

I have absolutely no idea what my sins are any more. Quite possibly everything.

I see this as about temptation and obedience. In my opinion, these two words, properly understood, go a long way to explaining the bigger picture.

In ancient days the people of that time – the children of Israel – were relatively undeveloped in their spiritual minds. They required the "thou shalt nots". Today, even those who have received only an ethical teaching do not need to be told not to murder and not to steal – they know. But in order to protect the children of Israel in days of old from themselves and the evil influences around, the God of their salvation had to say through His chosen mediator: "thou shalt not".

Later on, Christ was able to speak in a different tone to those children now that their consciousness contained a deeply embedded understanding of right and wrong as far as awareness of sin was concerned. A different tone - so it is with spiritual development of humanity, as slow as it might appear, but it happens according to God's overall plans. There comes a time when a different tone is required by the spiritual needs of humanity.

And today, a greater measure of freedom and control has been gained over impulses which are primitive. Now the temptations come in a subtle form which is sometimes not even noticed until it is too late and the damage is done and only through remorse are things set aright – far more subtle temptations than those older injunctions were meant to address.

Personally, I made a commitment to the higher Self within and to my Father God that I would be a better person in His service, to always try harder, and to thank God that Jesus Christ represented Him for all humanity to benefit from His sweet influence which He laid down through His life-time of care and work, and by His taking up His Mission as He went about teaching and healing and preaching His Gospel of the Kingdom of God, and by the demonstration of His love upon the Cross.

That commitment brings about a deep change in a person's heart and mind. That person seeks the righteous path. That person is seeking the Will of God in his or her life. Yet the habits developed whilst living under another ruler have been etched into the physical mind and occasionally a snap-back is felt - but the same rule of habit works the other way too for the glory of God, and victory after victory becomes the norm - but always beware and be prepared because the enemy is always looking for the gap caused by the missing brick into which to fire the darts that cause the heart to ache.

So, during that life, there will be thousands upon thousands of temptations and many choices to make.

I believe, there are base and gross sins and there are sins of a different character, far more subtle, far more difficult to pin down and identify. But all sins are outside of Christ who lives within, who sits on His throne, and the time must come when Christ rules completely and obedience to Him is in perfect harmony where sin and death have ceased to exist.

This is where obedience comes in. This is where faith and trust come in.

Obedience because it is true protection, it is the spiritual life and the power to live it.

Faith and trust because the person is not sure of what these subtle temptations are. Therefore the person has to pray to God and have the faith and trust that He will answer.

"Is this a sin? Is that a sin? Am I being arbitrary because my baser self has gained the high ground or is this a fair decision? Am I clean enough to approach the Holy Spirit and have I ensured there are no lurking sins in my mind? Does this come up to the highest standards of love expected by my God and does He mind me having what the earthly-minded take for granted? I wish I could know, will you tell me please God?"

God knows that the child is growing up and the Spirit within has plans for that child, and although God could make it plain what is the path to follow, it is left up to the child to believe that the choice they make is the right choice because they have asked for guidance.

And that is where faith and trust comes in. It is no use asking God for guidance and then not believing that He has heard and given the guidance. No, God has heard and God, the perfect Father, is leaving it up to the child for the course of action to take – to cooperate with Him, blending the will with His Will so that His Will is done. So whatever course of action the child takes, that child should believe that God will guide that child into the right path on which to travel. Faith and trust – the child grows.

So my opinion is renew the heart and mind with prayer and meditation every day and renew the commitment to always seek the highest and the best and never settle for second, third, fourth or fifth best because anything but first best influences others, so the responsibility is great. That is my opinion. There will be failures but the time comes when every temptation to sin is seen for what it is and is overcome by the power of the Christ within – He is Lord, one just has to learn to recognise Him – and what a beautiful treasure – the beautiful treasure which instructs through the power of love and which demonstrates, in a tiny measure because it goes well beyond one's ability to endure, the longing and yearning felt for each and every one of His children. When that kind of love is felt for others in the tiniest measure, then words, pettiness and all differences fade into obscurity as the only matter of moment is seeking His Will that He might show a way of Service to relieve His suffering for His children.

Yeah, but obedience is basically do what you told, when we haven't always been told, and temptation is a way of say desire that implies the object of desire you shouldn't desire, you don't decide that someone else does.

I should point out that, as far as can be ascertained no one had said, thou shalt not murder to Cain who preceded Israel, he still clearly had picked up the ethical training from somewhere. So where'd it go between him and Isreal?

I did the sort of thing you're describing I prayed for God to help me overcome sins I perceived I had. I did this for years. The sin remains still but my doubt that it is a sin has grown. Maybe God wants me to have this at the moment, almost certainly He does or His will is being thwarted, but then who am I to pray against His will. I've tried it just got worse. :dunno2:

But I fear now that we're really going off topic so this may be a bad idea.

[rosered]

Bleuugghh!

I still hate that scripture about the great potter. I first encountered it when I accepted ET and to read it in context it just sounds like an argument for predetermination and a way to say that no one can complain if God has made the to ultimately go to Hell forever. Can the pot challenge the potter? If the potter gives the pot awareness and then claims to love the pot like all His other pots that He made for special purpose, yes it can.

I'm very wary of Ecclesiastes. This is the book that opens declaring that 'all is vanity'. Really? Is God is the habit of making vain things en masse? I wouldn't have thought so. That said the part your referencing is rather nice.

It's interesting you reference that part of the Eden story but don't think of the part that led to it in this case.

God gave to man, as food for his fleshy appetite, all the trees in the garden, excepting that one. And he was permitted to indulge that appetite and he appears to have had no appetite for the tree of knowledge until the serpent put it in the woman's head.

Now suddenly the spirit and the flesh are enemies and the spirit apparently seeks the good and the flesh the evil but why. And surely they aren't meant to remain enemies.

  Oh Dear , Chris !

  I think the flesh part is the vanity   every ''creature ''is subject to    bro  :mblush:     

All of it has to do with ''in the beginning ''   


  All mankind/Adam   hope was in death  ,  now  since the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ that has  since changed   in my  most sincere opinion .

and to be living 930 years  vexing the Spirit of Life   , I do think God is being merciful to shorten the days of our flesh    after being ''dipped ''  in death   for so long of time   it would be hard to  even   lift your head up     much less    find any joy in the things   that are fleeting [lasting for a very short time.]from your   grasp

   This place/ WORLD  is all about LOSS     and being human ,  leading me to believe it is the man of sin suffering loss /perdition   waste   , corruption

  seems we get to experience this  , all of us to a certain degree     , some more than others    ,  to me this is why we harden our hearts as to not ''feel anything ''  any longer
Our greatest hope is in  LIFE and that is though the Spirit of everlasting life    , being connected to something so much more greater and  purer  than we could have ever imagined      , I do   believe being ''Awakened ''    to that , tasting  God and knowing His goodness , that makes us hunger and thirst for more    of     THE SPIRIT OF LIFE   and dwell on less and less of the death realm in thoughts holding us prisoner to it .
 
  the above    thinking over the below    mentality   determines our spiritual health and well being   ,  what is it to be spiritually sick ? 

  and angry  at God    for a life you cannot enjoy   because it goes against your very nature    or more so His very nature ?

  The work    OF GOD    sending  the   Son of man and Son of God is reconciling  all things unto Himself     , we have nothing to offer Him except  a thankful heart  for Him doing this for us      ..  something we tried to do   on our own and could never    bear  it , He bore our griefs and knows the vanity   and fruitless  errors of trying to save ourselves    and dying  though the process  , some things are just better off dead   than letting the evil continue    and touching more and more  and causing it to corrupt also
    you heard the saying , One bad apple spoils the whole  barrel  ?       Well we have one GOOD THING   , BEING THE WORD OF GOD   making them all   good  from the bad experiences     , and we dont  get to know the full impact till     the flesh is no more  a  problem

  Some are tasting the Spirit of life now  and are  desiring   more   Life as death seems to be  lesser  of  a problem in them  , raising the dead to Life again  is a  state of just being     content with what the Lord is doing   by faith in more of that   Life shinning though  and less darkness to deal with  that used to ''consume them''  and swallow them up   whole     

I recall not being able to  just ''snap out of it ''   as some would say    ,  but I thank God     I no longer  wallow in that  self pity and anger and   fits of  rage that often come upon me in my youth    , blaming God for all those things    that seemed so unfair and  cruel    to try and live with along with myself      that self loathing  of failure   and defeat    , being ''dipped '' or baptised in   death  at every turn  , there is no place to go , but cry out to GOD for  some mercy on your life   that seems impossible to bear 
  God knows when you are at the ''end of your rope ''    and just hanging by a thread   , this seems to be when He shows up  , in our darkest hour , a ray of Light and hope comes shining  though . 

  Hell to me, is a state of being ,  just as  heaven is  ,    How we feel has everything to do with   where we are at . 
Folks whom say you cannot go by your ''feelings ''   are laughable to me    now , they have hardened their own hearts as to NOT feel   anything  and that is just dead  to me .

[lastpost]

Dear CST,

Yeah, but obedience is basically do what you told, when we haven't always been told, and temptation is a way of say desire that implies the object of desire you shouldn't desire, you don't decide that someone else does.

I must ask indulgence, as unfortunately, it is only possible to make 'bold' statements concerning my own understanding because there is not the time or space to explain the deeper background to these conclusions.

God created man in His own Image. God is living within each one in the form of the Higher Self – the Spirit that He generously gave out of Himself, His own Substance when He created individuality, His children. What God has given as a precious jewel for each one to nurture and cherish, is of Himself - and that is who you really are in your innermost being. So yes, You are, in effect, telling yourself what to do and what not to do, You have a plan as to what will bring you the greatest gain for the Spirit, and your inner Spirit is cooperating with the great God to try to bring this about in the best manner possible.

While you sojourn in this world in which there is both good and evil, you have the opportunity to overcome - by faith – what has been hidden from you for your own sake. It is hidden otherwise you could not benefit from faith as you would not need faith if it was not hidden.

If a desire does not bring any gain to the real You, then it will - by default - continue to bind you as the lesser you. As I believe that the Spirit has chosen to undertake this earthly sojourn for its own benefit, then, yes again, the object (or non-object) of your desire is chosen by you as a temptation to overcome (or not if you pass out of this Earth in a state of complete failure in that area).

I should point out that, as far as can be ascertained no one had said, thou shalt not murder to Cain who preceded Israel, he still clearly had picked up the ethical training from somewhere. So where'd it go between him and Isreal?

I am of the belief that the Spirit came from God and was created in a state of Perfection. In God's Plan for the redemption of His children, He has permitted that some – a few - who have freed their Self in a greater measure than the others of that period and location, may take their earthly sojourn among others so that a bright flower may blossom and bring benefit to others who are around.

In this sense, I also believe that just because Jesus had harsh words of criticism for the Pharisees, this does not mean that every single person born as a Pharisee was as selfish and hypocritical – indeed, here and there, I believe, there was one who spoke up to the face of the Pharisees in general and received worldly detrimental effects to himself, even stoning (and again in this context, his own real Self would have gained by a law of compensation).

I did the sort of thing you're describing I prayed for God to help me overcome sins I perceived I had. I did this for years. The sin remains still but my doubt that it is a sin has grown.

It is not for me to say or judge what your own Spirit desires. I am simply pointing out my understanding of the issue. In my experience, it is possible to learn, to a certain degree, through the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, something about the spiritual laws which are in effect in this material sphere of action (the physical universe). Coming to some kind of understanding (through faith) of this, then I find that one is able to come to a conclusion as to what is the highest and the best in the sight of the God who is Love, as far as a single issue is concerned. Settling for anything less is, in my opinion, simply putting off what the Spirit within wants to achieve until a later time; and when the body is cast off and the opportunity comes to see what could have been gained spiritually while the eyes were bound, and how difficult this task is now, only regret will be added to the mourning Spirit at its devastating loss.

This is just my opinion, but I do happen to believe it is true. And I cannot blame anyone else but myself for my shortcomings. I certainly cannot blame the Master Christ as He was the perfect Example shining on the horizon at all times, who was subject to temptations no other will ever or could ever be subjected to, and yet overcame all because He would not betray humanity, His higher Self or the Godhead from whence He had come, by giving in to the way of the world. 

As you say, there is a limit to what can be said here, so I apologise if I cannot explain myself more clearly.

[CST]

Bleuugghh!

I still hate that scripture about the great potter. I first encountered it when I accepted ET and to read it in context it just sounds like an argument for predetermination and a way to say that no one can complain if God has made the to ultimately go to Hell forever. Can the pot challenge the potter? If the potter gives the pot awareness and then claims to love the pot like all His other pots that He made for special purpose, yes it can.

I'm very wary of Ecclesiastes. This is the book that opens declaring that 'all is vanity'. Really? Is God is the habit of making vain things en masse? I wouldn't have thought so. That said the part your referencing is rather nice.

It's interesting you reference that part of the Eden story but don't think of the part that led to it in this case.

God gave to man, as food for his fleshy appetite, all the trees in the garden, excepting that one. And he was permitted to indulge that appetite and he appears to have had no appetite for the tree of knowledge until the serpent put it in the woman's head.

Now suddenly the spirit and the flesh are enemies and the spirit apparently seeks the good and the flesh the evil but why. And surely they aren't meant to remain enemies.

  Oh Dear , Chris !

  I think the flesh part is the vanity   every "creature "is subject to    bro  :mblush:     

All of it has to do with "in the beginning "   


  All mankind/Adam   hope was in death  ,  now  since the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ that has  since changed   in my  most sincere opinion .

and to be living 930 years  vexing the Spirit of Life   , I do think God is being merciful to shorten the days of our flesh    after being "dipped "  in death   for so long of time   it would be hard to  even   lift your head up     much less    find any joy in the things   that are fleeting [lasting for a very short time.]from your   grasp

   This place/ WORLD  is all about LOSS     and being human ,  leading me to believe it is the man of sin suffering loss /perdition   waste   , corruption

  seems we get to experience this  , all of us to a certain degree     , some more than others    ,  to me this is why we harden our hearts as to not "feel anything "  any longer
Our greatest hope is in  LIFE and that is though the Spirit of everlasting life    , being connected to something so much more greater and  purer  than we could have ever imagined      , I do   believe being "Awakened "    to that , tasting  God and knowing His goodness , that makes us hunger and thirst for more    of     THE SPIRIT OF LIFE   and dwell on less and less of the death realm in thoughts holding us prisoner to it .
 
  the above    thinking over the below    mentality   determines our spiritual health and well being   ,  what is it to be spiritually sick ? 

  and angry  at God    for a life you cannot enjoy   because it goes against your very nature    or more so His very nature ?

  The work    OF GOD    sending  the   Son of man and Son of God is reconciling  all things unto Himself     , we have nothing to offer Him except  a thankful heart  for Him doing this for us      ..  something we tried to do   on our own and could never    bear  it , He bore our griefs and knows the vanity   and fruitless  errors of trying to save ourselves    and dying  though the process  , some things are just better off dead   than letting the evil continue    and touching more and more  and causing it to corrupt also
    you heard the saying , One bad apple spoils the whole  barrel  ?       Well we have one GOOD THING   , BEING THE WORD OF GOD   making them all   good  from the bad experiences     , and we dont  get to know the full impact till     the flesh is no more  a  problem

  Some are tasting the Spirit of life now  and are  desiring   more   Life as death seems to be  lesser  of  a problem in them  , raising the dead to Life again  is a  state of just being     content with what the Lord is doing   by faith in more of that   Life shinning though  and less darkness to deal with  that used to "consume them"  and swallow them up   whole     

I recall not being able to  just "snap out of it "   as some would say    ,  but I thank God     I no longer  wallow in that  self pity and anger and   fits of  rage that often come upon me in my youth    , blaming God for all those things    that seemed so unfair and  cruel    to try and live with along with myself      that self loathing  of failure   and defeat    , being "dipped " or baptised in   death  at every turn  , there is no place to go , but cry out to GOD for  some mercy on your life   that seems impossible to bear 
  God knows when you are at the "end of your rope "    and just hanging by a thread   , this seems to be when He shows up  , in our darkest hour , a ray of Light and hope comes shining  though . 

  Hell to me, is a state of being ,  just as  heaven is  ,    How we feel has everything to do with   where we are at . 
Folks whom say you cannot go by your "feelings "   are laughable to me    now , they have hardened their own hearts as to NOT feel   anything  and that is just dead  to me .

Bother, you misunderstood me. More evidence of my worthlessness. Still I don't suppose I can be surprised if I don't give you my examples properly. Did I say I blamed God? I don't think I did. I'm sure I do sometimes and I'm sure everyone does sometimes and that fact I hold as rather important but I don't think it was my primary motivator now. I'd better explain my arguments in responding to you and lastpost's concern.

First "In the begining":

'And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the Earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food."' (Genesis 1:29)

'the the LORD God formed man of the dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.' (Genesis 2:7)

'And the LORD God commanded the man saying, "You may eat freely of every tree of the garden; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day you eat of it you will die."' (Genesis 2:16, 17)

'So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man.

'Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh she shal be called Woman because she was taken out of Man."

'Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.

'And the man and his wife were both naked and they were not ashamed [embarrassed]' (Genesis 2:21-25)

That's just what it says I don't think I'm perverting anything in the text. The fact that man is made from the dust of the ground is why there are pottery references in the Bible the language used here is pottery language.

Man is clearly of flesh even though he's formed of dust but he is animated by spirit which is what the breath of life is and these things are in union that is why the spirit is not embarrassed by the bare flesh until after the fall. And then suddenly it is.

That conflict is a consequence of sin, I thought what Jesus did was meant to do away with all the consequences of sin. I thought that what a strong argument for the UR position.

Now why did I object to Paul's use of the pottery analogy? Well I'll give you it in context and hopefully I'll be able to explain it better.

'You will say to me "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, a man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder "Why have you made me thus?" Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use?' (Romans 9:19-21)

Now so far I don't have a big problem with this 'special' and 'ordinary' as it is translated today do not necessarily equal good and bad. People can live an ordinary, very happy life while other can me used like some people Jesus healed, exactly so Jesus could heal them. That would be special use but not the greatest of lives, perhaps.

But so far it's just about OK, but then Paul says this:

'What if God, desiring to show his wrath and make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for the vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory, even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles.' (Romans 9:22-24)

Whoa, there's no way anyone can believe in free will after that. Calvanists must love that, that's exactly what Calvinists believe isn't it? That there's a group of people (vessels) who God made to save and another He mad to damn and thus enhance the blessings on the saved.

That I protest. And so do many others, they invented the concept of free will because they didn't like what that passage clearly seems to suggest. But Paul is also referencing the likes of Isaiah perhaps not quite correctly and that is important and that I hope to return to later.

Finally you mentioned Ecclesiastes, Chapter 3 to be precise:

'He has made everything beautiful in its time; also he has put eternity in man's mind, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.' (Ecclesiastes 3:11)

It really is a fine passage people don't tend to translate it like that anymore they think 'eternity' won't make sense to the readers I imagine and 'beautiful' there are too many examples of things that don't seem so beautiful.

Chapter three also contains gems like,

'I know that there is nothing better for them than to be happy and enjoy themselves as long as they live; also that  it is God's gift that everyone should eat and drink and take pleasure in all his toil.' (Ecclesiastes 3:12-13)

'So I saw that there is nothing better than that a man should enjoy his work, for that is his lot; who can bring him to see what will be after him?' (Ecclesiastes 3:22)

Ahh, that's what I want to for always why does it seem so cynical and implausible in the context.

But Ecclesiastes says one other thing:

'What is crooked cannot be made straight, and what is lacking cannot be numbered.' (Ecclesiastes 1:15)

Seems pretty clear he's what John the Baptist says:

'As it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low, and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; and all flesh shall see the salvation of God. (Luke 3:4-5)

Apparently God can do what Solomon thought couldn't be done and flesh here is exactly the same work as is used negatively in relation to the Spirit.

[rosered]

Thanks so much Chris ,
I  am understanding your  thoughts  much better .
I thank you for taking the time  to bother  and   also bring out the  subtle  differences .  YAY!! :thumbsup:

All any of us can do it use the scriptures  to      explain how we come to our own   thoughts and conclusions  about  them .  Thanks for all the scriptures by the way.

  Seems John  1   went on further to explain how we ''handle '' the Word of LIFE '' ...   I think this is key/important  to understanding   Gods mercy/grace

Solomon was the wisest   man on earth in his time  , by God granting him  wisdom from above  , Jesus  does  declare at his time a  greater then Solomon is here

  and God says   This is my beloved Son  hear Him ..  and He is the bread of  heaven that come down to us  [daily bread]    , and Yet  Jesus said man shall NOT live by bread alone but every  Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God . 

and I do see those as the same judgments   as past examples  and results .

  I  loved how you brought up  the ordinary life    and the special   and explained this excellent !   I do believe this is where the ''religious minds ''  and circles fail the test .

And I am going to try my best to explain why I think the way I do  , God knows   that   I beg for simplicity  in Christ , it is the only way    I can understand and not ''get confused ''     by listening to  many  other  voices and opinions   that causes stumbling  ,   when I first  heard of UR  ,when  my sister told me
  But many scriptures seemed to counter that  and stumbled    many times  and it was   the stumbling STONE and rock of offense       that  I was stumbling over

HIS WORD IS LIFE  , but it kept bringing  me to death  over and over  again .

I see the called   and chosen few   , like this now   and it ''comforts '' instead of   ''confuses ''    peace and rest instead of   unrest and conflict    within  by being .

I do see the earthly realm and negative energy    and the   positive energy of the HOLY ABOVE  realm as  being touched and ''a spark''  or charge  is      granted   to an ordinary  life or being     and given a purpose  to do what it is   ''called to do ''    without them  even knowing the end results   

  All the prophets were called   in their time  to serve   the LIVING GOD    and what was it ? , but  to  warn  like a trumpet blasting  of a certain  ''expectation '' of

disaster   to happen if they remained    in their ''sin'' error    , they were all warning of  a judgement  GOD had  told them to ''speak ''  by the Spirit ,   that would

happen and  yet ,  they were  killed and tormented  and mocked and disregarded    and many times the disaster would happen  on them .

For me this is the Christ in them [ anointing ] by the Spirit    , they took on the same hated   by the world   suffering for doing what God asked them to do .

So this is why we have the dead in Christ rise first    they have risen to a higher purpose   than not only an ordinary    life , but a special calling    and chosen few    , ordained from the beginning     ,

for me the LAMB OF GOD  is all the blood  from the beginning  of Abel to  Zechariah  from the foundation of the world   ,   and     Jesus tells us so

   Luke 11 50so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,

51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.

' 52"Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering.

   This is why to me  if you have broken one  law you have broken them all  and under the law of the cursed generation  that receives   the wrath of the LAMB


How does one get out from under the law of sin and death ?     ROMANS  6 , 7 , 8    Paul goes on the explain it was Gods grace  given to Him and we are no  better or worse than Paul   a murderer  , that was not given  permission to enter the    KINGDOM OF GOD   All   positive    things that begin to work in Him by being touched by God    the SPIRIT OF TRUTH AND LIFE ...

I do see that  they will all be touched  by God  in the end because   GOD is no respecter of persons   just some arrive  quicker than others will

JESUS CHRIST/WORD OF GOD  HOLDS   death and Life within  HIMSELF     there is nothing outside   of HIM   all enemies are under His feet / teaching  , the earth is His footstool  and   resting His feet upon His enemies heads [Be of good cheer I have overcome the world ]  every knee will  bow and every tongue will confess    that JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." 12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

  For me  ,    Just as   every WORD  GOD SPOKE IN THE BEGINNING    WOULD NOT RETURN TO HIM VOID   , BUT IS HELD IN CHRIST ALREADY    THEY JUST DO NOT KNOW IT YET but  certainly will !    AND IS  presented to the FATHER  AS  GOD BE ALL IN ALL   

1 Cor 15 The Order of Resurrection

...27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.

But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.

28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him,

so that God may be all in all.


29Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?

I hope this was clear  and always struggle to be so ,   crystal clear  , but it is how we think that makes all the difference   I have noticed more  so .

I have many good  good    folks whom shared what is in their hearts   right here and the old   Kingdom talk   before it died when the owner  died also

   That I thank God for  sending them  to us  in the Same  Spirit of Life in Christ   to help us along the way
Even you have helped me  , as many do and  don't always thank them   but should  encourage   them  also  ,   I just Thank God   for all .  and mostly all He is doing for us . :HeartThrob:

 

[CST]

 :CryBaby: Thanks for trying to understand Rose unfortunately I don't think you can be cause I am a :fool:

You'll probably struggle to understand what I was saying because I wasn't finished. For time purposes I had to split my response between my answer to you and my answer to lastpost. And then because I am a :fool: while I was typing that reply and in another tab getting more Bible references I managed to closed the tap I was in here and lost everything I had written which was a lot. I don't have time to write it all again today so the above post is currently worthless because it won't make sense in the way it should. Clearly God did not want that post finishing today. Maybe another day.