An Inhuman God

[eaglesway]

In the beginning God created man- in His own image. Yet we know that God is a spirit, so we were created after His inward image, the image of His character and His nature. All of the most beautiful expressions of humanity we have ever seen were reflections of God.

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

People are without excuse because they caan see, even in themselves, what they ought to be as human beings. The love of a mother for a child. The joy of a young father in his stumbling little boy. A true love between a man and a woman. An act of kindness between strangers......

All of these things are reflections of who God is- His inward character and eternal power- and we were created in His image.

When religious people speak of the power of God they often focus on the power He has to shake the heavens and the earth, but this is certainly the least of His power, and shows little of His character.

It was the kindness of God in Jesus the Messiah, reaching out to a lost and confused world from the cross, showing them how human He is.

  Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation (2 Cor 5)

Jesus was the most human of all who have ever lived. No greater love has a man than to lay down His life for His friends, to cry out after enduring such immense agony, "Father forgive them, they don't know what they are doing".

And Jesus said, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father". When He spoke the words, "If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me", it was because He knew that that one human act would reveal God to the human race in such a way that it will eventually gather every human being into Him, so that God willd become "all in all".

All we who believe in Him are supposed to be the most human of human beings. I know, it is a paradox. To be like God is to be human and to be human is like Christ, and we have been given all this negative press about what it means to be human. We are so"holier than thou" sometimes, and too "spiritual" for our own good.

Like the disciples who would not let the little children through "the ropes" to see Jesus, even though they of all people could see Him most clearly.

And He says we must become like them if we are to enter the kingdom of God, and they are so quintessentially human, and yet so also like God. If we are to be "ambassadors" for Christ, and conitue the work of Messiah, we must become like them and get off our "high horse".

It is not our great religious themes that draw people to God and reveal His nature, it is the freedom, the love, the affection and the laughter of a little child.

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.  The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.  For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God's glory displayed in the face of Christ.

But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us.  2 Cor 5

We have this treasure in jars of clay. "What treasure?" The treasure of the divine nature. The inward image of the truest human being, Jesus. When He is shining in our hearts the gospel is good news to all people, a ministry of reconciliation.

When the god of this world blinds people to the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ- it is the word of reconciliation that is veiled to them. They cannot see the love of God in the face of Jesus Christ. They cannot see that the beauty of humanity is that it carries about within it the incredibly diverse expression of the love of God, and that God can only be realized in mankind, among and between the community of humans by the minstry of reconciliation, and the hand of kindness and practical love.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.Heb 1

Preachers and priests and religionists love to say the words, "In the beginning was the word and the word was God." Then they use their words and lack of humanity to terrorize people into accepting their inhuman God. A god who cares more about buildings and organizations and doctrines than people. A god who loves only those who accept Him. A god who would torture people in hell forever, men women and children, for their ignorance and yes, their stubborness.

But Jesus was the radiance of the Father's glory and the exact representation of His nature, and He prayed from the cross, "Father forgive them, they don't know what they are doing", this Jesus who said "If you have seen me you have seen the Father" WAS the very word(expressed thought) of God. The Logos. A seed of true humanity sown in the earth to reveal that the inhumanity of men was due to their failure to recognize the love and tenderness of God through all that He has made and given freely to them. A fully realized human being is a precious thing, a thing more glorious than an angel.


But we have it all turned around now. We are almost ashamed of our humanity. I hear all the time people young and old saying we, humans, are the virus that is destroying the earth. But humanity is not a virus. There is a virus in humanity that is destroying all the beauty He created so that in the loss of it they might realize who he is and what He gave them. A virus of decay, delusion and bondage.

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
Romans 8

The glory and freedom of the children of God is what we carry in these clay vessels. Human clay. Weak and in bondage to decay without but full of the joy and kindness of a little child within. it is not our great theological understandings and deep spiritual sayings that will draw people to God, cause them to see the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.... it that glorious freedom and that word of reconciliation....


For God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their transgressions against them and He has given to us that ministry of reconciliation.

And while most "so-called" Christians run around casting the whole world into hell forever  and imposing the fear of God as a justification for their religious excesses- Jesus said that on the day when men stand before Him, and He looks into their hearts, the questions will be very human ones.

When I was thirsty, where were you. When I was sick, what did you do. When I was naked, did you hide your face from me? When you called me Lord, did you really have any clue to who I am?

"Father forgive them they dont know what they are doing".

Those who preach Christ today are not as far from those who crucified Him as they would like to think, but that is alright, God will get through to them someday. When multitudes of people who never knew His name but walked in simple human kindness stand up in the presence of those who knew His name but did not know Him hear God say, "Come on in, let's rejoice", the ones unto whom He says, "Depart from me, I never knew you" will discover that the fire of God is the light that penetrates into the center of your heart and divides asunder soul and spirit, bone and marrow, and makes manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart. When they get to the center, when they get to the innermost part.... they will see God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their sins against them, and they will weep and they will bow their knees and they will rejoice in the glory of God streaming from the face of Jesus Christ and they will rise up from their knees and they will rejoice with all creation in the praise of the glory of His grace and they will love one another and embrace- and they will laugh like little children, free at last from that binding inhumanity that weighed them down and the blinding religion that deceived them.

Because God is not inhuman enough to leave people in hell forever. God only wants us to see ourselves as we are, so that He can turn us into little children and bring us into the kingdom of God- a kingdom of light and love and life.

Thats what the lake of fire is for. It where every selfish person will see themselves as they are. The lake of fire and the crystal sea before His throne are one and the same- a mirror, yes, a very intense mirror to the soul of man. A mirror where a human being sees his or her own inhumanity in the light of the precious humanity of the Lord Jesus Christ who died once, for all, not as, in His mind- "A GREAT SPIRITUAL DEED".... because he was a humble servant. He was His Father's child. He was the friend of sinner's, and "No man has any greater love than this, than to lay down His life for His friends".

God desires truth in the innerman and he will teach us truth in our innermost beings and when we have that truth we will be messengers of the word of reconciliation- "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God".

The stone which the builder have rejected has become the chief cornerstone- but it is a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense. It is the message that Jesus, the Messiah, did not come to judge the world, but to heal and deliver the world through love and forgiveness in the blood of His cross.

it is written, "The life is in the blood" and the life blood of Jesus was the divine nature of God revealed in the face of Jesus Christ in all His glory of love and forgiveness, willing to lay down His life for His friends even before they knew He was their friend, even when they were His adversaries.

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
        even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.Phil 2

Jesus reigns because He loves. He leads because He serves. He saves because he will reach down into the hell of self delusion and draw us out by the revelation of His true humanity and set us free into the glory of our own.

For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
1Cor 15

He reigns because he suffered, and if we suffer we will reign with Him in life and love-Now. Today. Forever. Wherever we are as ambassadors of a ministry of reconciliation, bearing precious treasure in earthen vessels- we are to be as he was in the world.... "For God was in Christ reconciling"

And when we have finished our course we will be raised to an inheritance, reserved in heaven for us, a salvation ready to be revealed in the last times as a kingdom of priests, a nation of little children, a laughing singing army of reconcilers laboring through ages to come to gather all things into one in Christ, whether things in heaven or things in earth, for He must reign until every adversary is subjected, reconciled and gathered into one so that God becomes all in all.

With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. Eph 1

These verses in Ephesians, so often quoted, so little understood, reveal the glorious truth of the gospel, God's EUAGGELION, His evangel- the Good News.

Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

A ministry of reconciliation that will continue until God is ALL IN ALL.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.Col 1

All the fulness of God dwelt in Him. All the fulness of God ran down that cross. The Son'a agony was shared by the Father because their love was greater than anything the world could break so the father felt it all and His love ran down because His Son was just like Him. He had His Father's heart, and as that blood ran down to the earth from His head and His hands and His feet and his heart he cried out WHAT WAS IN HIS HEART, "FATHER, FORGIVE THEM.........."

And we have this treasure in earthen vessels, and this treasure will REIGN until every knee bows before the Lordshp of His love and every tongue confesses that is is so in glorious praise.

No, our God is not an inhuman god. He is a good God, who knows how to give good gifts to His children, and disciplines them according to their need, so that they will learn the ways of righteousness, humility and love- so that He can set them over His estates, and share with them the joy of His bounty in times of refreshing from His presence- sitting at the table with His friends all as friends, with wine and song and laughter and seet fellowship, for our God is a human God. His very word is the beauty of creating humanity intoa "dwelling place of God in the Spirit" so that He can walk among them and live among them, "For I will be their God and they will be my people".

Lord, you are my God;
    I will exalt you and praise your name,
for in perfect faithfulness
    you have done wonderful things,
    things planned long ago.....

On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare
    a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
    the best of meats and the finest of wines.
7 On this mountain he will destroy
    the shroud that enfolds all peoples,
the sheet that covers all nations;
8     he will swallow up death forever.
The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears
    from all faces;
he will remove his people's disgrace
    from all the earth.
The Lord has spoken. Isaiah 25

It is time Christians knew who they were, what they are called to be, and how great His love is within them.

The Fountain and the Fire

Love is a fire
That will burn all the earth
And love is a fountain
Springing up in new birth
And life is the offspring
Of the fountain and the fire
With light spread through all the gathering

And the darkness burns
And the flames rise high
Into the heavens above
Into the deep below
And the fountain flows
Rivers running to the sea
Till all the dead are living
All their dying is done
When the shed blood of Messiah
Has reconciled every one

Then all will stand in the fire that
purged them
And Praise
the very light Himself
Who sought them,
and set them free-
every soul ever in the world
aflame.

[Dandelion]

Amen, EW!

A captivating and riveting soliloquy, as always.

Thank you.

'We have this treasure in jars of clay. "What treasure?" The treasure of the divine nature. The inward image of the truest human being, Jesus. When He is shining in our hearts the gospel is good news to all people, a ministry of reconciliation.'

Indeed.

D.                              :cloud9:

[Aerex]

Well said but there are still aspects of God that is very hard to accept that is very well not human. We can be like Jesus but not like God if that makes sense.

[rosered]

   Great  thoughts  EW !  , and am still reading on it ..

Innocence  , purity    acceptance ,Love  :dsunny:

[marie glen]

Amen!! :goodpost: :goodpost:

God, our Father has sure been underestimated.. misunderstood.. (and downright blasphemed/insulted, but the Father forgives all, they know not what they do)

I've realized as for UR, it's U & the 3 R's - repentance, redemption, reconciliation.. His deep kindness (heart); 100% love; and mercy triumphing over judgment, results in UR saved/rescued - universal rescue..

It's late.. getting goofy.. :doh:

Many focus on how in the last days there are "scoffers", which to me includes the dislike and disapproval the world has for God.. But they don't realize some of the reason for scoffers and scoffing is the image of God which is portrayed.. It's funny (not haha:) how strongly lodged in the psyche an untrue thing can be.. Especially an untrue teaching or doctrine..

[Shev]

A wonderful passage and summary of God's plan, thank you John! There is much to pause and consider in these gracious words...

[rosered]

James 3 8But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison.


9With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men,

who have been made in the likeness of God;

10from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing.


My brethren, these things ought not to be this way.


   Time to Shine   Isaiah 60Future Glory for Zion
1"Arise, shine; for your light has come, And the glory of the LORD has risen upon you.


2"For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples;

But the LORD will rise upon you And His glory will appear upon you.

when you arrive and have   come to Mount Zion

  Hebrews 12 Our Kingdom Cannot Be Shaken



...21And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, "I AM FULL OF FEAR and trembling."


22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God,


the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels,



23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,...

   GOD IS LOVE ,   Love is what     makes complete  , entire    without lack   1John 4


Love Comes from God


...16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us.


God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.


17By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment


because as He is, so also are we in this world.


18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love....


Many  here  have never known this love of God   in the world  , they have been disconnected  , in a  deep  sleep   and have missed  out, for what ever reason Gods has allowed  , but when they SEE HIM     they will know ..

   Some here only have  30  fold  some 60 , some 100%     and know the Love of God    how blessed  are they    to KNOW JESUS  NOW  :HeartThrob:

GOD GAVE THE INCREASE ...  Matt 13

7"Others fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out.


8"And others fell on the good soil and yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty. 9"He who has ears, let him hear."

[eaglesway]

I  got a 4th R, Rosered, Restoration  :dsunny:

[rosered]

 :HeartThrob:


Amen    Bro John ,,,       Jesus Christ come   to   set  the captives free from the spirit of Babylon   and the  age old curse of Adam ,that all die in  .

[sheila]

Father as an authoritarian figure/stern[harsh] unto those whose hearts are hard[I knew you were a stern/harsh man] and as a Father

of tender mercies unto the merciful and loving.

   when bearing the image of the corrupt one...the demons believe and tremble.  when bearing the image of the incorrupt we

boldly enter into His presence through the veil[no fear of death/as perfect love cast out fear]

   the 'sinners' in Zion are afraid....but the redeemed in Zion rejoice!!!!!


  under the old law covenant[of death/written against lalwess ones...condemn sin in the flesh] He appears as a harsh stern

  Authority figure.  but with the Son and the power to become the sons of God...and the kingdom of the love of the Son.....

  comes the mindset of Christ and sonship and love and tender affection.


....it is always the serpents mind that slanders the true image and likeness of Our Father........and when we see Christ..face to face..we

shall be just like Him..and have the mind of Christ in the matter.

[sheila]

  the name/nature change of Jacob/Israel...comes with wrestling with the angel/messenger in the night...and not letting go-but

enduring until we are blessed.  The end of the law..fulfilled in Christ is a blessing...for the law as a tutor has led you to Christ/the Blessing

.....even God your Saviour...and your helper..no longer God  your adversary.

    I tell you a sacred mystery...we shall ALL NOT DIE....BUT WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED

   and it is the nature of the Son that changes us.

[Dandelion]

Very profound and an interesting combination and interpretation of the readings you chose. Thank you! 

'Endure until we are blessed'

I can very much relate to that, in my own life.

:dsunny:             :cloud9:

D.

[CST]

In the beginning was God and God created the world. And the He created children, which He called humans, for Him to love and to love Him. Because God loves His children He desired all His children should love each other and that they should loved the world that He had created for them. Humans are so much the same loving that which they have created and desiring that others should do the same, especially their own children. Human parents often struggle to see why anyone should find anything objectionable about their children. So far so uncomplicated.

But God is a creative being and so creates many different children and different types of children. And God knows that when you create many diverse and different these there is also created a very risk of conflict. So as a result conflict is indeed produced and many human children come to hate each other and humans hate like nothing else.

And while they all think that everything they love should be preserved from all harm they also tend to think that everything they hate should be destroyed and removed from the world so they don't have to put up with all these things they've decided are offensive. And they've decided that God should hate them all too, because there could be no reason any decent person could think of keeping these things.

So now God, who is impartial, has no got a world full of humans all of whom He loves and enjoys trying to drag Him into their conflicts and He finds Himself, owing to the moral purpose, taking sides between His children which He really doesn't want to ideally because although He loves both children the child He chooses against will end up feeling they are loved less than the other child even if it's not true.

And other people can than jump on this to present God as taking sides in bigger ways and try to present God as always taking their side (which is the right side) against the side of all the things they don't like (who they always associate with the wicked) who He will destroy forever in this think called Hell. And they can happy in their selfish eternity, free of all the things that they've decided they don't like.

So Eternal Torment is once again shown to be the judgement of very inhuman humans, not a very human God.

[eaglesway]

So now God, who is impartial, has no got a world full of humans all of whom He loves and enjoys trying to drag Him into their conflicts and He finds Himself, owing to the moral purpose, taking sides between His children which He really doesn't want to ideally because although He loves both children the child He chooses against will end up feeling they are loved less than the other child even if it's not true.

But thankfully, God is not impartial :o)

In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him  with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.  In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will. Eph 1:9-11

His plan, working out through the ages, was always to redeem all.

For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. Col 1:20

He works all things according to the counsel of His will.

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Tim 2:4

And His plan is glorious, coming full circle around all He has created.

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

"For who has known the mind of the Lord,
    or who has been his counselor?"
"Or who has given a gift to him
    that he might be repaid?"
For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. Rom 11;32-36

Having created man in His image, then bestowing upon humanity God in human form, to elevate humanity above the angels as children of God. :o)

[CST]

Have I used the word 'impartial' wrongly? I thought lines like "God is not a respecter of persons." And instructions to use to use fair measure and not be biased in our judgments are instructions that tend towards impartiality and fairness, yes?

Saying: For God had consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on some of them, which is what the eternal torment and annihilation groups appear to read it as saying, that would be partial wouldn't it?

I'm really confused now. Though I concede I find it hard to imagine God being impartial in an absolute sense, of course, I struggle to see how if He was completely impartial He could make any decisions at all. So I used to think He was partial to justice though now I think that may just have been the legalist in me.

[rosered]

 

  Hi CST ,
I do believe     the greatest error [sin]   sin is erroring from the truth   all the carnally minded has made over the ages  , when it comes to  religion   and the beliefs  and those    works of men's hands    systems   , they fail to see a very simple  and perfect truth .
  and that is    the carnal mind  always   presumes    death and torment in the end , but the scriptures  prove    Christ is the end and God will be all in All

  the last enemy is death and that is what all of Adam are trapped in     all the while they are  flesh and blood ,  But you see they are all  given  different names here in the world  , mine is Rose  , but I am still a part of Adam   and  also made new in Christ    ,  so   if my end and all in Adam are made new in Christ wont GOD  our  heavenly Father end up being all in All ?

It is God  whom has   done all this work though Jesus Christ    and not of ourselves  , we have helped    make it  "complicated " with conditions   and self worth and values     and  , it all boils down to experiencing evil    in this life   , some KNOW the depths of satan    , where others have not had  them experiences  , but all have  had their nose    rubbed in     death and sin and evil all while  being here  and Gods word calls it corruption  and destruction     loss   , etc .


  What if when we   die in the literal sense  of the meaning we  find out    how    bound   all of mankind   has been and how  free  we  are in the Spirit and truth , and how learning  down here how much more there is to it   than what  we ever imagine in our hearts ,   all will be so  humbled greatly      and realize our lack .
And  know  just   how deep Love  and knowledge of God is  a  true awakening ,  We  are never given the full spiritual experience  here ,  some if any are only given  a going in and out of the Spirit      and when in the Spirit things of God are revealed  ,  Just as  John was in the Spirit on the Lords day    and was able to  give us Light and knowledge  of Gods plan  and writ it down for our  benefit  , but the carnal minded have made a   mess of it  by interpretation     the mixing of     the work of mans powers[hands idols ] and Gods powers in it  [Spirit ] and they are  separated      by the WORD OF GOD that will judge us all   as the man of sin is being revealed   in Judgment   ,  some before hand [ here and now ]  and some   come after ..

[CST]

Thank you, Rosered. I just hope it's a simple as your post suggest (if I've understood correctly). The commandment to love each other sounds pretty simple for a clue to what the next age must be like. But God's made everything and they still seems to be a lot the will not get into Heaven or be in Heaven. I like the idea of being 'free in spirit' but I suspect there's still a rather bad piece of carnal minded think in the reading. I tend to see the word 'free' as 'free to do' and that's a problem because not actually sure what Ill be free to do though there's a fair few things I sure I won't be free to do and expect I won't want to. The snag is that all those things are things I don't want to do now if I can help it and that seems very carnal minded, hence my original post in this thread which, I admit, was probably not as clear as when I first conceived it.

[rosered]

Thank you, Rosered. I just hope it's a simple as your post suggest (if I've understood correctly). The commandment to love each other sounds pretty simple for a clue to what the next age must be like. But God's made everything and they still seems to be a lot the will not get into Heaven or be in Heaven. I like the idea of being 'free in spirit' but I suspect there's still a rather bad piece of carnal minded think in the reading. I tend to see the word 'free' as 'free to do' and that's a problem because not actually sure what Ill be free to do though there's a fair few things I sure I won't be free to do and expect I won't want to. The snag is that all those things are things I don't want to do now if I can help it and that seems very carnal minded, hence my original post in this thread which, I admit, was probably not as clear as when I first conceived it.

  Hi  there  CST ,

     For me it is mankind  trying to figure  out God  , and that is  not possible ..     and it goes into many things  , but keeping it simple as a child can  understand it  , is what helps the most , cause if Rose  starts adding to the word of God or taking away  ,  than  here  comes trouble  ,   this is why the Lord said let your yes , be yes and no be no , anything more   evil is present   and ready to  bind us   up again  and cast us   into prison    for judgment .
    Jesus did some amazing ''miracles    same as signs   '' and said tell no man    , man would hinder      the Spirit
  always a  3 part   thing for some reason ,

Here is what helped me the very most   ,  If you can see God  made Adam in the beginning  in His own  image [ Gen1 ]     that is Spirit   and  in Gen 2  as  a soul[ nephesh   a   creature  of the earth  [subject to vanity and emptiness   futility   in other words fruitless and  subject to  corruption  bondage to sin and error  ]    dust of the ground   with  a breath in Him      and the 3rd part and best part  the BODY   of Christ ... 

   we are in the body of Adam  death realm and also in the Body of Christ LIVING   realm , that is the heavenly  place  , we  go in and out , remember  Jesus telling his  chosen  few    , pray , pray  pray   to not fall into  temptation ,   for the Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak [This to me is one big reason  why Jesus  CHRIST  IS THE LORD master   / teacher   ruler of the dead and the living   and contains ALL THINGS    till GOD BE ALL IN ALL  ,,,    Jesus christ is RECONCILING  all things to  the  FATHER   and no man knows !!  you look at the world and see Chaos  and it looks    like the opposite  ,,,    but the Spirit knows all things  are working together for the good of those , love Him  and   whom are  called according to His own purpose ..     We get to partake of the Spirit in a  small way here and now  and become apart of the BIG PICTURE  .

  Why would Jesus call this a  fall  or enterance  into  a place  of temptation?  , that to me is the lower  state of being    carnal minded     from a higher  state of being    Spiritual minded ..
  Pray    we do not enter   or  fall   , stumble    trip up  , into temptation   is the sleeping in Adam      Matt 26 Jesus Prays at Gethsemane
...40And He came to the disciples and found them sleeping, and said to Peter, "So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour?

41"Keep watching and praying that you may not enter/ fall  into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." 42He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Your will be done."...

now I do believe   that   in Adam all die or    consider it    a  sleep  in sorrow   ,    this is because God shortened the days of our weakened  flesh   ,     from 930 years of being subjected to     evil and all the vile   things in mans hearts  coming forth  being ruled by SIN / ERROR / MISSING THE MARK  ..

To me the mark is the seal of   God and redemption  though GODS grace  and mercy  on us ,   the covenant  of promises made throughout the WORD OF GOD ..

Prayer is key to keeping the hearts door open    to receive     the things of the Holy Spirit   , and the time to close the   hearts door   and wait on the Lord to do  His thing   because He is with you  ,  as  the overflowing scourge passes   over us ,  Just as the lambs   blood was on the door post  in the days of Israel    we too experience the same  chastening    of obedience or disobedience  , or we too will be swept  away   by the flood of lies 

Babylon is what  we are to avoid  , and that is the mixing   of good and evil and all becomes spoiled and useless   ,  because corruption has entered in  a little leaven    can  cause a rising , in the good  and also in the evil    and this is the  discerning the spirits if they be of God or not ..

  Because it is a spiritual warfare   we are battling  with  on a daily basis  and if GOD  be fore you who can be against you ?


   There is  as much or as little   you can   experience   all depending on what the Lord has called and  chosen you to experience  in this   time  on earth , but I believe it is only the beginning   of making all things new   within us
  You / none would not even believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God without the HOLY SPIRIT   giving it to us  as a free gift  and if you use the gift for   good and   GOD  in HIS MERCY will give the increase    according to His  desire   .

I have those carnal moments and am tempted to  fall from GODS   GRACE  but  always asking Jesus for help and tell Him constantly   LORD YOU  know me better than  I know myself ,  Just like Peter was  in error  and was called   satan / adversary to GODS WILL  / desire    ,  I too miss  the mark and  error and pay for it with  , not  getting to stay in the Spirit  of peace and joy in the Lord , but God sure knows we want to   be with Him..    and please HIM  and love Him like he loves us       
 

[eaglesway]

Have I used the word 'impartial' wrongly? I thought lines like "God is not a respecter of persons." And instructions to use to use fair measure and not be biased in our judgments are instructions that tend towards impartiality and fairness, yes?

Saying: For God had consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on some of them, which is what the eternal torment and annihilation groups appear to read it as saying, that would be partial wouldn't it?

I'm really confused now. Though I concede I find it hard to imagine God being impartial in an absolute sense, of course, I struggle to see how if He was completely impartial He could make any decisions at all. So I used to think He was partial to justice though now I think that may just have been the legalist in me.

If God is completely impartial, how does He choose Jeremiah before he was born and call him from his mother's womb.

I agree God is no respecter of persons.  But neither is He so impartial that He has cast us adrift in a purely free will paradigm to choose to reject Him eternally, or to suffer eternal torment for rejecting Him in this life. He is partial to His kind intention which he purposed in Himself, to gather all things into one in Christ, whether things in heaven or things in earth. He has imposed limits upon man's will, because he is a merciful Father.

Organized religion has no answers for verses like James 1... "He brought us forth by the word of truth to be a sort of first-fruits of His creation", or  Romans 8

19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

or Ro 11:36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things"

or 1 Cor 15:22-28 "For as in Adam all men died so also in Christ shall all men be made alive".... "that God may be all in all"

Whatever they read that does not fit into their systematic theology- they simply ignore or gloss over.

Eph 1  In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth

He has predestined the salvation of all, and created all things with the original purpose, already in mind and completed in the Logos- a process working out through the ages of gathering all things into one in Christ,, by the cross of Jesus Christ.

"If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me"

"Behold I am making all things new"

[jabcat]

I find it hard to imagine God being impartial in an absolute sense, of course, I struggle to see how if He was completely impartial He could make any decisions at all.

Yes, I personally believe the "God is no respecter of persons" is often misused/misapplied.  I see that as in context, Peter realized the Gentiles were also included in the Good News, not just Jews [exclusively] favored.  For me an accurate application is also that each will be saved - however, and this is where the "no respecter" can be misused - it's still each in his own order.

So in some respects, as things "play out", I believe God (for whatever reason) does choose/favor/pick certain people or groups to serve different purposes (honor/dishonor/"hardened hearts", turned from Israel for a season, etc.).  So day-to-day it may appear some are favored and some are cursed/chosen to struggle.  However, when it's all said and done, there will be no one left out, i.e., "no respecter of persons".   :2c:

I believe that's where I/we need to trust God in His sovereignty.

[jugghead]

For me it is as simple as:
God does not choose one OVER another which shows respecter of persons

whereas

when He chooses one  BEFORE another He is not a respecter of persons

Like the parable of the vineyard, they received the same amount whether they were chosen in the first hour, third hour, sixth hour. ninth hour or the eleventh hour

No one was chosen "over" another, just chosen "before" another

[darryl]

For me it is as simple as:
God does not choose one OVER another which shows respecter of persons

whereas

when He chooses one  BEFORE another He is not a respecter of persons

Like the parable of the vineyard, they received the same amount whether they were chosen in the first hour, third hour, sixth hour. ninth hour or the eleventh hour

No one was chosen "over" another, just chosen "before" another

yes,,, :iagree:

[GodIsLove]

For me it is as simple as:
God does not choose one OVER another which shows respecter of persons

whereas

when He chooses one  BEFORE another He is not a respecter of persons

Like the parable of the vineyard, they received the same amount whether they were chosen in the first hour, third hour, sixth hour. ninth hour or the eleventh hour

No one was chosen "over" another, just chosen "before" another

yes,,, :iagree:

:iagree:

[GodIsLove]

Eaglesway,
Since this thread was re-ignited so to speak, I reread the original post. As always, it was amazing and spoke to me. I think I remember you saying you were a former preacher--if you started a new church I would attend! Too bad we are scattered all over the world, but at least we have the fellowship here.
I wonder if you'd be interested in blogging, to have all of your writings on one page accessible to others, or maybe even recording these "sermons" for YouTube. You have a gift for putting this all into focus that I know I am not quite able to do. The combination of scripture and your commentary makes everything crystal clear, you are really blessed with a gift.
:dsunny:

[jugghead]

For me it is as simple as:
God does not choose one OVER another which shows respecter of persons

whereas

when He chooses one  BEFORE another He is not a respecter of persons

Like the parable of the vineyard, they received the same amount whether they were chosen in the first hour, third hour, sixth hour. ninth hour or the eleventh hour

No one was chosen "over" another, just chosen "before" another

yes,,, :iagree:

:iagree:

The fleshly nature turns the journey into a COMPETITION (a winner and a loser)

Whereas

His Spirit nature turns the journey into a CELEBRATION (all win)