I have been going back over my book, doing some editing, writing an Introduction, and so forth. Yesterday, I got to a section having to do with the Lake of Fire, and having soon before reviewed some texts on the Devil/Satan/Lucifer/THE ADVERSARY, this crazy idea came to me.
Revelation 12:10 says Satan (Prince of Heck) accuses the Brethren night and day before God. You could say that he acts as a prosecutor. Well, in Revelation 20:2, he is bound for 1000 years and tossed into the abyss. Then in 20:10, he is cast into the LoF. Here's where things get interesting - the White Throne Judgment follows immediately in 20:11 and following. Do you see that God delays the Judgment until the prosecution is taken out of the way? I just imagine person after person, coming to the dock, and the Defense is ready, but the Prosecutor's chair is empty. Then the only thing that can happen, happens: "Case dismissed!" God is just beyond clever!! :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on July 26, 2016, 05:18:20 PM
I have been going back over my book, doing some editing, writing an Introduction, and so forth. Yesterday, I got to a section having to do with the Lake of Fire, and having soon before reviewed some texts on the Devil/Satan/Lucifer/THE ADVERSARY, this crazy idea came to me.
Revelation 12:10 says Satan (Prince of Heck) accuses the Brethren night and day before God. You could say that he acts as a prosecutor. Well, in Revelation 20:2, he is bound for 1000 years and tossed into the abyss. Then in 20:10, he is cast into the LoF. Here's where things get interesting - the White Throne Judgment follows immediately in 20:11 and following. Do you see that God delays the Judgment until the prosecution is taken out of the way? I just imagine person after person, coming to the dock, and the Defense is ready, but the Prosecutor's chair is empty. Then the only thing that can happen, happens: "Case dismissed!" God is just beyond clever!! :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
:mshock: :faint: Wow.. I like that! No prosecutor.. the debt's been paid.. the defendant "believes" (surely?!) and thus their name is written in the book of life.. Unless they're a really, really hard case.. but even then.. "every knee shall bow" .."all the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD"... and HE shall be "all in all".
:dsunny: :banana: .... :cloud9:
Yeah it's true. St Paul also wrote that those who die are freed from sin, none of the resurrected sin so why would God be upset with them??
I think we need to be careful not to take a piece of a verse, out of context.
Quote from: anti_nietzsche on August 12, 2016, 08:32:09 PM
Yeah it's true. St Paul also wrote that those who die are freed from sin, none of the resurrected sin so why would God be upset with them??
I don't think the meaning here is that when our bodies die, we are automatically made righteous. Let's look at the section of Romans 6, that this comes from.
1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren't you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
5
For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be raised to life as He was. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin.8
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12Therefore do not let sin control your mortal body so that you obey its desires. 13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
I believe Paul is saying that when we die in Christ, we are then resurrected with Him.
We give up our lives, and in turn, we have a new life, in Christ, our Salvation.
If death alone gives us a free pass, then Jesus did not have to die on the cross. :Chinscratch:
But, we know He did have to die, to save us.
D.
I don't know Dandelion , GOD KNOWS ,
I am under the impression that they were slaves to sin their entire earthly lives and we know only Jesus Christ can set them free , If Jesus Christ /Lamb of God ,died for the sins of the whole world , that would also include those whom never knew JESUS peace in all their earthly lives and yet suffered greatly because of sin and error , they may not have been set free from sin till they literally died ...
We have it now by faith not by sight , Blessed is he whom believes and have not seen , When they do see JESUS CHRIST and than know that love of God by the Spirit , I do believe their knee will bow and tongue confess His Holy Name ,
We only have the advantage of Knowing Him now while being mortal still , by the quickening of our mortal bodies by the Holy Spirit working in us now.
Why would God choose us now and not them instead of us and we would die in our sins , are we any better off than they were at the time He sought us out of the world ? God is no respecter of persons .
I do not think God is like that at all , myself , I do believe everyone is in for a big surprise though ! Only Christ is the resurrection and the Life and raises the dead to Life again back from the dead , that held them their entire lives ,,,
Where is the mercy on them we should be showing , as the same mercy God showed toward us ?
We are to love them as God loves them and they are free from the pain and suffering for doing evil and good , just as we are forgiven for doing evil and good
If it is the HOLY SPIRIT working in us freeing us from sin/evil , why cannot the same Holy Spirit work in them also ? in a twinkling of an eye be changed ?
What if their order was last and not first , or inbetween ?
My hope is Gods LOVE will overcome all the things that have errored greatly , because Only He can do this , when He is all in all
Luke 7:36-50
Just saw His very words and teaching here save and restore a marriage.
He forgave them both.....He said.
How He deals with each of us after we understand and experience His tendermercies and forgiveness is also..up to Him. For who knows us the way He alone does?
None but Him.
His will be done on earth as in the heavens.
Also...something of a comfort...He is Lord of all now.
He accomplished all necessary to be Lord of all...having all the keys to everything in His scarred wrists/hands.
The Potter molds us with scarred, loving hands. We needn't fear His correction. The Lamb truly loves us.
We love a Wonderful One, because....
He first loved us.
And it is that same love He has given us that we are called as firstborn...to give others. Mercy. Honor our Father in His Son...in this same way He was to us.
Quote from: Song91 on August 13, 2016, 06:17:59 AM
Also...something of a comfort...He is Lord of all now.
He accomplished all necessary to be Lord of all...having all the keys to everything in His scarred wrists/hands.
The Potter molds us with scarred, loving hands. We needn't fear His correction. The Lamb truly loves us.
We love a Wonderful One, because....
He first loved us.
And it is that same love He has given us that we are called as firstborn...to give others. Mercy. Honor our Father in His Son...in this same way He was to us.
Beautiful words!
Does that mean I'm free from any condemnation?
Quote from: Patinak on August 13, 2016, 06:55:24 AM
Quote from: Song91 on August 13, 2016, 06:17:59 AM
Also...something of a comfort...He is Lord of all now.
He accomplished all necessary to be Lord of all...having all the keys to everything in His scarred wrists/hands.
The Potter molds us with scarred, loving hands. We needn't fear His correction. The Lamb truly loves us.
We love a Wonderful One, because....
He first loved us.
And it is that same love He has given us that we are called as firstborn...to give others. Mercy. Honor our Father in His Son...in this same way He was to us.
Beautiful words!
:iagree: Beautiful . Glorious . Living words :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Dandelion on August 12, 2016, 11:53:41 PM
I think we need to be careful not to take a piece of a verse, out of context.
Quote from: anti_nietzsche on August 12, 2016, 08:32:09 PM
Yeah it's true. St Paul also wrote that those who die are freed from sin, none of the resurrected sin so why would God be upset with them??
I don't think the meaning here is that when our bodies die, we are automatically made righteous. Let's look at the section of Romans 6, that this comes from.
1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren't you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be raised to life as He was. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12Therefore do not let sin control your mortal body so that you obey its desires. 13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
I believe Paul is saying that when we die in Christ, we are then resurrected with Him.
We give up our lives, and in turn, we have a new life, in Christ, our Salvation.
If death alone gives us a free pass, then Jesus did not have to die on the cross. :Chinscratch:
But, we know He did have to die, to save us.
D.
:2thumbs:
The target of salvation is sin not God being upset. And salvation doesn't come by physical means, such as physical death, but by the Spirit, by Spiritual means. I was taught so much in my early Christian education to dodge God's anger that I was rarely ever taught about salvation from sin. I had to learn that after I left the church and then the scriptures started to make more sense to me.
Quote from: rosered on August 13, 2016, 02:43:58 AM
I don't know Dandelion , GOD KNOWS ,
I am under the impression that they were slaves to sin their entire earthly lives and we know only Jesus Christ can set them free , If Jesus Christ /Lamb of God ,died for the sins of the whole world , that would also include those whom never knew JESUS peace in all their earthly lives and yet suffered greatly because of sin and error , they may not have been set free from sin till they literally died ...
We have it now by faith not by sight , Blessed is he whom believes and have not seen , When they do see JESUS CHRIST and than know that love of God by the Spirit , I do believe their knee will bow and tongue confess His Holy Name ,
We only have the advantage of Knowing Him now while being mortal still , by the quickening of our mortal bodies by the Holy Spirit working in us now.
Why would God choose us now and not them instead of us and we would die in our sins , are we any better off than they were at the time He sought us out of the world ? God is no respecter of persons .
I do not think God is like that at all , myself , I do believe everyone is in for a big surprise though ! Only Christ is the resurrection and the Life and raises the dead to Life again back from the dead , that held them their entire lives ,,,
Where is the mercy on them we should be showing , as the same mercy God showed toward us ?
We are to love them as God loves them and they are free from the pain and suffering for doing evil and good , just as we are forgiven for doing evil and good
If it is the HOLY SPIRIT working in us freeing us from sin/evil , why cannot the same Holy Spirit work in them also ? in a twinkling of an eye be changed ?
What if their order was last and not first , or inbetween ?
My hope is Gods LOVE will overcome all the things that have errored greatly , because Only He can do this , when He is all in all
I don't believe it is a matter of what God CAN do, or cannot do. But everything I have seen in the Bible tells me that God is interested in a process, a gradual process. The Kingdom of God, for example, is like a small seed that grows into tall tree. Not a seed that instantly becomes a tree. I think the thousands of years it took for God to bring the Gospel to Israel and how thousands of years have passed since Christ shows that process is important to God. He seems to believe that maturity means not being handed things instantly, but like a Gardener, he likes to grow the garden into maturity.
Quote from: Cristina100 on August 13, 2016, 02:12:57 PM
Does that mean I'm free from any condemnation?
John 5:24 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 8:1 KJV
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Quote from: Seth on August 13, 2016, 05:20:05 PM
Quote from: rosered on August 13, 2016, 02:43:58 AM
I don't know Dandelion , GOD KNOWS ,
I am under the impression that they were slaves to sin their entire earthly lives and we know only Jesus Christ can set them free , If Jesus Christ /Lamb of God ,died for the sins of the whole world , that would also include those whom never knew JESUS peace in all their earthly lives and yet suffered greatly because of sin and error , they may not have been set free from sin till they literally died ...
We have it now by faith not by sight , Blessed is he whom believes and have not seen , When they do see JESUS CHRIST and than know that love of God by the Spirit , I do believe their knee will bow and tongue confess His Holy Name ,
We only have the advantage of Knowing Him now while being mortal still , by the quickening of our mortal bodies by the Holy Spirit working in us now.
Why would God choose us now and not them instead of us and we would die in our sins , are we any better off than they were at the time He sought us out of the world ? God is no respecter of persons .
I do not think God is like that at all , myself , I do believe everyone is in for a big surprise though ! Only Christ is the resurrection and the Life and raises the dead to Life again back from the dead , that held them their entire lives ,,,
Where is the mercy on them we should be showing , as the same mercy God showed toward us ?
We are to love them as God loves them and they are free from the pain and suffering for doing evil and good , just as we are forgiven for doing evil and good
If it is the HOLY SPIRIT working in us freeing us from sin/evil , why cannot the same Holy Spirit work in them also ? in a twinkling of an eye be changed ?
What if their order was last and not first , or inbetween ?
My hope is Gods LOVE will overcome all the things that have errored greatly , because Only He can do this , when He is all in all
I don't believe it is a matter of what God CAN do, or cannot do. But everything I have seen in the Bible tells me that God is interested in a process, a gradual process. The Kingdom of God, for example, is like a small seed that grows into tall tree. Not a seed that instantly becomes a tree. I think the thousands of years it took for God to bring the Gospel to Israel and how thousands of years have passed since Christ shows that process is important to God. He seems to believe that maturity means not being handed things instantly, but like a Gardener, he likes to grow the garden into maturity.
I would agree with you Seth , but have considered the thief on the cross and he never went though the process into maturity , He confessed the Lord Jesus Christ in death and was given , granted LIFE .
Because LOVE is greater than death , to Know Gods love is the most precious thing we can experience and know , It removes the death process in us completely , allowing us to speak boldly and truthfully as we can be without doubts and surety of saying the wrong things
and GOD IS LOVE holds no ill against anyone , Because HE IS GOD and there in nothing greater than GOD HIMSELF .. confession will come when we see Him face to face and all will come to that place now or than , all will glorify God ...
Some quickly as a twinkling of an eye , some slowly as the heat in the heart intensifies and cry out to Him for relief , this is how I come to KNOW HIM , some
never knowing anything at all during their earthly lives , but suffered because of sin as a prisoner chained to it like an animal , and those like the thief on the cross whom died in sin but was raised up in GLORY , all these many examples for us to learn of Gods righteousness in the earth from ...
Putting our thoughts in to Words are hard and putting them into Living Words are only When the Spirit of God moves in your heart to focus on them and to share and encourage one another in the LOVE of GOD , Finding my focus is less and less on worldly things they only bring more death to the hearer and do harden our hearts , not good to be in , it is a prison of spiritual unrest , and uncertainty , of where you stand in truth or lie down in misery
The truth is as we judge /have an opinion about , the same Word or judgment is within us working more evil or working more good , If you show mercy on others being affected by their trials of faith and do pray for them instead of condemn them , put them to death in your heart , You will receive more Love from God and know it ! and it gets easier and easier to LOVE others no matter where they are at or what they are doing, praying for your enemies is how God uses a standard being LOVE as the greatest measure one can be made whole in ..
When you love so shall you be loved , when you show kindness , you will also be shown kindness and when you show mercy , you will also be shown Mercy by GOD and HIS WORD is a living SWORD cutting between the life of us and the death of us , dividing us between the two LAWS of judgment as BOTH are in effect , It really is a personal relationship we have with our Lord and savior , could not be any more intimate and real , Learning to love everyone and keep on praying for the world to SEE THE LIGHT and SEE JESUS CHRIST in His beauty and glory,
as our only Hope as our LIFE GIVING SPIRIT .<3 you will live and never die , or if you die you will Live again because of Him and what He has done for you and you continue to BELIEVE IN HIM with your all !
There is not a soul on the face of the earth that does not need Gods love , mercy and grace , I know not one :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Lazarus Short on August 13, 2016, 05:22:48 PM
Quote from: Cristina100 on August 13, 2016, 02:12:57 PM
Does that mean I'm free from any condemnation?
John 5:24 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 8:1 KJV
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Amen LAZ we have always been spiritual beings , but some have not risen to this understanding yet , and will not till Jesus Christ grants them LIFE from the dead ! :HeartThrob:
Ps , Our obedience now , is Life from the dead and a more abundant life in the here and now , bearing fruit to God, those joined to in the Same Spirit of THE HOLY ONE ... and the promise of eternal life that never dies :HeartThrob:
Supposing the thief on the cross went to paradise that very day, we don't know whether he underwent a sanctification process there or not. To say he didn't is just a best guess. There is also debate among Christians whether Jesus said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise" or "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
In any case, none of this has to do with whether or not God loves them or not. Saying that there will be a judgment process isn't akin to saying that God is withholding mercy or love. I actually believe that the sanctification process is an example of God's mercy. After all, Titus 2:11 says that God's grace is teaching/chastening people to abandon sin.
Sure, God could do anything he wants. But, again I do see that he places value on patience, growing, and process.
Quote from: Seth on August 13, 2016, 06:11:05 PM
Supposing the thief on the cross went to paradise that very day, we don't know whether he underwent a sanctification process there or not. To say he didn't is just a best guess. There is also debate among Christians whether Jesus said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise" or "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
In any case, none of this has to do with whether or not God loves them or not. Saying that there will be a judgment process isn't akin to saying that God is withholding mercy or love. I actually believe that the sanctification process is an example of God's mercy. After all, Titus 2:11 says that God's grace is teaching/chastening people to abandon sin.
Sure, God could do anything he wants. But, again I do see that he places value on patience, growing, and process.
I do too Seth ,
Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers , that is between God and them alone ...
remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with him , it was Jesus buisness and not Peters to concern himself with what Jesus would do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ," when He returns ? John 21 .\\
We have not a right to unless we fall under the law of the same condemnation which is death when judging anyone .
I was thinking more of along the lines of JESUS granting more or less gifts /talents , judgment being , you being a faithful servant over a "few things "
He will make you ruler over many , namely the enemies , we saw that example with those chosen for Life in the Spirit , thrilled over the power over the enemies,but more so they were LIVING , being written in the Lambs book of Life , so you can have His peace , and experience His JOY as these are His gifts to men that only He can give in this life and a never ending Life ..
:HeartThrob:
Quote from: rosered on August 13, 2016, 06:35:05 PM
I do too Seth ,
Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers , that is between God and them alone ...
remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with him , it was Jesus buisness and not Peters to concern himself with what Jesus would do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ," when He returns ? John 21 .\\
But, it seems to me you are reaching a conclusion about what Jesus will do with other people based on the scriptures. But, since my conclusion is different, you are using John 21 to tell me not to be concerned about it. You seem to be just as concerned about it as me. I'm just saying what my own conclusion is based on the scriptures.
Quote from: Seth on August 13, 2016, 06:51:21 PM
Quote from: rosered on August 13, 2016, 06:35:05 PM
I do too Seth ,
Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers , that is between God and them alone ...
remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with him , it was Jesus buisness and not Peters to concern himself with what Jesus would do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ," when He returns ? John 21 .\\
But, it seems to me you are reaching a conclusion about what Jesus will do with other people based on the scriptures. But, since my conclusion is different, you are using John 21 to tell me not to be concerned about it. You seem to be just as concerned about it as me. I'm just saying what my own conclusion is based on the scriptures.
So sorry you took it that way Seth , that was never my intention ,
I just believe God in all His righteousness will be perfect and always do as He says ..
Not trying to exalt anything but the LORD JESUS CHRIST IN POWER and just believe this with all my heart :HeartThrob:
in His peace brother :HeartThrob:
I didn't take offense. Just reasoning with you about it. Always love talking with you. :friendstu:
IMO the thief on the cross recognized Jesus as Savior, Lord and Messiah there on the cross. His sins were all washed away right then and there.
The thing that strikes me about the thief on the cross is that it may look like his repentance was instantaneous but it probably took his whole lifetime to get there. It seems that he had put some thought into his condition. That's what I believe judgement is for, to bring one to a place of true, heartfelt humility and repentance. If God wanted that to be instant perfection, he could have booted the serpent out of the garden in the first place. The fact that he didn't tells me that his plan is meant to be completed over time.
Jesus says to love our enemies..He prayed forgiveness for those murdering Him from the cross...God's essence is love, not hate, 1 John 4:8, 'Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love'....we mustn't be self righteous...Paul says, 'for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God'.
Quote from: rosered on August 13, 2016, 06:35:05 PM
Quote from: Seth on August 13, 2016, 06:11:05 PM
Supposing the thief on the cross went to paradise that very day, we don't know whether he underwent a sanctification process there or not. To say he didn't is just a best guess. There is also debate among Christians whether Jesus said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise" or "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
In any case, none of this has to do with whether or not God loves them or not. Saying that there will be a judgment process isn't akin to saying that God is withholding mercy or love. I actually believe that the sanctification process is an example of God's mercy. After all, Titus 2:11 says that God's grace is teaching/chastening people to abandon sin.
Sure, God could do anything he wants. But, again I do see that he places value on patience, growing, and process.
I do too Seth ,
Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers , that is between God and them alone ...
remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with him , it was Jesus buisness and not Peters to concern himself with what Jesus would do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ," when He returns ? John 21 .\\
We have not a right to unless we fall under the law of the same condemnation which is death when judging anyone .
I was thinking more of along the lines of JESUS granting more or less gifts /talents , judgment being , you being a faithful servant over a "few things "
He will make you ruler over many , namely the enemies , we saw that example with those chosen for Life in the Spirit , thrilled over the power over the enemies,but more so they were LIVING , being written in the Lambs book of Life , so you can have His peace , and experience His JOY as these are His gifts to men that only He can give in this life and a never ending Life ..
:HeartThrob:
good point...we are not to cast pearls before swine and be judging those outside the church...Paul said in 1 Corinthians 5:12 'What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?'...we are not to judge and condemn non believers...we must not be like the self righteous guy that Jesus criticized. :iagree:
Who is judging? :dontknow:
Quote from: Seth on August 13, 2016, 09:35:08 PM
The thing that strikes me about the thief on the cross is that it may look like his repentance was instantaneous but it probably took his whole lifetime to get there. It seems that he had put some thought into his condition. That's what I believe judgement is for, to bring one to a place of true, heartfelt humility and repentance. If God wanted that to be instant perfection, he could have booted the serpent out of the garden in the first place. The fact that he didn't tells me that his plan is meant to be completed over time.
:iagree:
Quote from: Seth on August 13, 2016, 11:30:46 PM
Who is judging? :dontknow:
merely agreeing with Rosered and what she said about 'judgement'..I am speaking in general terms and definitely not specifically referring to you or anybody else on this thread . :Peace2: :LH: :gimmefive:
Oh ok. Thanks for clarifying :friendstu:
Wow , just got back , and thanks for the replies :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Seth on August 13, 2016, 09:35:08 PM
The thing that strikes me about the thief on the cross is that it may look like his repentance was instantaneous but it probably took his whole lifetime to get there. It seems that he had put some thought into his condition. That's what I believe judgement is for, to bring one to a place of true, heartfelt humility and repentance. If God wanted that to be instant perfection, he could have booted the serpent out of the garden in the first place. The fact that he didn't tells me that his plan is meant to be completed over time.
This is true Seth, I was thinking it was his encounter[thief on the cross] meeting Jesus face to face ,,,as they all heard about Jesus , Just as Saul /Paul was meeting Jesus face to face on the road to Damascus ,,, in the sense that it was '' The Light has come '' ,
as everything was laid bare before them .. and exposed , Jesus always saw them , but they had not seen Him . It changed Paul from a rebellious child being under the law and may tutors ,to a man , and grew in Truth and grace from that point on ..
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away;
if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part; 10
but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child;
when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12
For now we see in a mirror dimly,
but then face to face; now I know in part,
but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. 13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three;
but the greatest of these is love. As far as the thief on the Cross , this could very well be an example of , he was dying to sin , and was being made new in Christ ..
So many ways to see these things as the Holy Spirit teaches us and none are without some merit :HeartThrob: God bless ...
Quote from: darryl on August 13, 2016, 11:15:45 PM
Quote from: rosered on August 13, 2016, 06:35:05 PM
Quote from: Seth on August 13, 2016, 06:11:05 PM
Supposing the thief on the cross went to paradise that very day, we don't know whether he underwent a sanctification process there or not. To say he didn't is just a best guess. There is also debate among Christians whether Jesus said, "I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise" or "I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."
In any case, none of this has to do with whether or not God loves them or not. Saying that there will be a judgment process isn't akin to saying that God is withholding mercy or love. I actually believe that the sanctification process is an example of God's mercy. After all, Titus 2:11 says that God's grace is teaching/chastening people to abandon sin.
Sure, God could do anything he wants. But, again I do see that he places value on patience, growing, and process.
I do too Seth ,
Very much so , but we are not to judge our brothers , that is between God and them alone ...
remember Peter asking about "this one" , and Jesus told him Not to concern himself with him , it was Jesus buisness and not Peters to concern himself with what Jesus would do with "that one the one whom betrayed Him ," when He returns ? John 21 .\\
We have not a right to unless we fall under the law of the same condemnation which is death when judging anyone .
I was thinking more of along the lines of JESUS granting more or less gifts /talents , judgment being , you being a faithful servant over a "few things "
He will make you ruler over many , namely the enemies , we saw that example with those chosen for Life in the Spirit , thrilled over the power over the enemies,but more so they were LIVING , being written in the Lambs book of Life , so you can have His peace , and experience His JOY as these are His gifts to men that only He can give in this life and a never ending Life ..
:HeartThrob:
good point...we are not to cast pearls before swine and be judging those outside the church...Paul said in 1 Corinthians 5:12 'What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?'...we are not to judge and condemn non believers...we must not be like the self righteous guy that Jesus criticized. :iagree:
Amen Gods WORD does a great job of judging us Daryll , It is a two edged Word / Sword of the Spirit , It can kill and make alive and always in effect and active .
Deut 32 The Song of Moses
...38Who ate the fat of their sacrifices, And drank the wine of their drink offering? Let them rise up and help you,
Let them be your hiding place!
39See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me;
It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand. 40'Indeed, I lift up My hand to heaven, And say, as I live forever,... I have always felt that we have been given such a wonderful gift of Life in Christ , He can do the same for any one at any time and any where
HE IS THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY !and all His ways are excellent !!! :HeartThrob:
Thanks for the fellowship with you all God bless :dsunny:
Yeah the thief on the cross did see him face to face, but my point is that he was prepared for repentance long before that. The other one met him face to face and did not repent. I believe the revelation of God to man will be similar. In fact, I believe for a certain kind of judgment, some will be sent strong delusion to believe a lie. Some may see God and also be blinded to him, such as how the Pharisees saw Christ and also did not see him. Not only did they see Christ, they saw great wonderous miracles by him. Raising from the dead (!), healing etc. Such that they even admitted to Christ they knew he was from God because nobody else could do those things. And they still remained hard.
Quote from: Seth on August 13, 2016, 09:35:08 PM
The thing that strikes me about the thief on the cross is that it may look like his repentance was instantaneous but it probably took his whole lifetime to get there. It seems that he had put some thought into his condition. That's what I believe judgement is for, to bring one to a place of true, heartfelt humility and repentance. If God wanted that to be instant perfection, he could have booted the serpent out of the garden in the first place. The fact that he didn't tells me that his plan is meant to be completed over time.
Yes, I agree. I believe that being saved is about hitching our wagon to Jesus Christ. We must give up us and give our being to Him. It must be some type of process. Will it be very different for those who die, as non-believers? I don't know. But, I do believe we all must come to a point in our lives, or in our death, in which Christ takes the steering wheel and we take the back seat. And, I believe we must relinquish it willingly, and not because we must do it.
That was beautifully said, Seth. Thank you.
D.
Quote from: Dandelion on August 14, 2016, 05:21:22 AM
But, I do believe we all must come to a point in our lives, or in our death, in which Christ takes the steering wheel and we take the back seat. D.
Amazing how we hold the steering wheel, run into a wall, then blame the wall for being there.
Christ is our defence before the prosecutor. His faith and works are what saves us from all condemnation.
Prosecutor's chair may be empty or not; either way we only seem to appreciate our defence when we are aware of the offences and the coverage of Christ.
The thief on the cross who confessed was probably aware of his mistakes and had mercifully been shown what was about to happen. The thief who did not call on Christ was probably denying that he had made the mistakes that got him there in the first place.
One of the main debates by religions is the whole second death scenario.
If there is to be no second death then all the pre-Christ people have no chance of learning the mystery which had been hid from them.
Being made aware of this process seems to open the eyes and heart to a master plan which covers ALL bases and people.
Each in his own turn then makes profound sense.
The great delusion of many religionists is that Jesus cannot be forgiving after death. We do know from scripture that everyone is appointed to die and then go to judgment. My point is, after death we are not the same anymore. We become spiritual beings like angels. And I do not believe we can still be wrathful and evil then. It would make no sense for God to be harsh with us still like sometimes God had to be on Earth, as recorded for example in the prophets. In Heaven God is uncontested and can exercise his endless love perfectly. But still everyone would need forgiveness now and then because life is like that. We make mistakes, that is just human. And if Jesus can be forgiving to the heaven people, he can be forgiving to those who would only recognize him after death. Jesus is our advocate and he never stops being that. The talk of wrath and condemnation comes from the law of Moses, not from the law of God in the 10 commandments and in the love commandments. The Jews have this saying, if you save one man, you have saved the entire world. They spiritualize the law of Moses and teach that it was only given to the Jews. It does not form the basis of God's judgment - Jesus does judge and he wants to judge us so we would become fruitful. It's a judgment to make us better people, not a judgment wherein you could be condemned to eternal suffering. A God who is love doesn't do this.
And if you look around, I venture to say that most people abide by the 10 commandments. How many idols do you see being made? Does everyone steal and give false witness in order to hurt someone, does everyone commit adultery or murder? And yet this is the eternal life according to what Jesus told the jews in the Gospel. And Muslims and Atheists often obey the 10 commandments too. And see that God attached no negative consequences in his law to having sin in that regard. God is always forgiving, even to former murderers like St Paul. Jesus cross weighs so much. It goes deeper than every sin.
God can do whatever He pleases, but I believe each of us, whether before or after death, need to come to Him, and acknowledge that He is Lord over our existence.
Satan is a spiritual being, and he is evil. He does not accept God's supremacy over his own existence.
I believe that is a basic process that we all need to do to be saved. We are saved by grace, through faith. I think that is across the board, and applies to all of us.
As I said before, if all we had to do was die to gain salvation, then there would have been no need for Jesus to die on the cross.
D.
Quote from: anti_nietzsche on August 14, 2016, 08:36:35 AM
The great delusion of many religionists is that Jesus cannot be forgiving after death. We do know from scripture that everyone is appointed to die and then go to judgment. My point is, after death we are not the same anymore. We become spiritual beings like angels. And I do not believe we can still be wrathful and evil then. It would make no sense for God to be harsh with us still like sometimes God had to be on Earth, as recorded for example in the prophets. In Heaven God is uncontested and can exercise his endless love perfectly. But still everyone would need forgiveness now and then because life is like that. We make mistakes, that is just human. And if Jesus can be forgiving to the heaven people, he can be forgiving to those who would only recognize him after death. Jesus is our advocate and he never stops being that. The talk of wrath and condemnation comes from the law of Moses, not from the law of God in the 10 commandments and in the love commandments. The Jews have this saying, if you save one man, you have saved the entire world. They spiritualize the law of Moses and teach that it was only given to the Jews. It does not form the basis of God's judgment - Jesus does judge and he wants to judge us so we would become fruitful. It's a judgment to make us better people, not a judgment wherein you could be condemned to eternal suffering. A God who is love doesn't do this.
And if you look around, I venture to say that most people abide by the 10 commandments. How many idols do you see being made? Does everyone steal and give false witness in order to hurt someone, does everyone commit adultery or murder? And yet this is the eternal life according to what Jesus told the jews in the Gospel. And Muslims and Atheists often obey the 10 commandments too. And see that God attached no negative consequences in his law to having sin in that regard. God is always forgiving, even to former murderers like St Paul. Jesus cross weighs so much. It goes deeper than every sin.
Yes, Dandelion, everyone has to come to Jesus. It's only that some will come to Jesus after death. Except for this detail, the rest is identical to what a believer experiences in this life here.
God taught as a living parable with Israel and Egypt the captivity of His people[all souls are His] because the Prince of this world has His
people in captivity and doing slave sin works.does not hinder His deliverance into the real promised land of Heaven. The wicked generation
[satan and his offspring/scapegoat that perishes in the wilderness and does not enter] is a very important last step of ATONEMENT
done by Jesus as our HIGH PREIST. He places all sin upon the head of AZAZEL the goat and sends him into an unihabited place.
This is very important in understanding HIS JUDGEMENT from God's perspective. Jesus said 'I judge no man" He came to save man
but the Prince of this worl is judged that his works are evil.
some receive/inherit on this side of the river[Jordan] some on the other..but we all bear the image of the corrupt and the incorrupt.
even we that through faith recieve Him now await the substance...and pick up our cross to follow Him and face our last enemy death.
let not the church judge those on the outside..but discern the times we live in. the two edged sword out of His mouth does not
slay men..Elijah slayed the false-prophets[lying spirits] as a parable to show us these truth's..and the difference between Baal
who burns the children in fire..and God's heart to never burn the children in fire..instead He makes man able to dwell in the fire
just like angels.the iron furnance is this earth[iron core]..and He dwells and walks in them and shall unbind them from the earth
that all spirits of life in men dwell.
He recorded all His acts for us..to help us find our way. ALL mankind are His children/sons..they may be prodigals spending/wasting
their life substance on prostitutes drinking and herding swine[legion of evil spirits possesing them] but at their death[want of spirit of
life/death of flesh..He welcomes them home. Elder sons[church people that have served Father in this life] get offended..and miss out
ont the joy of this great celebration if they don't come around. But Father does it anyway..He say's.'this my son was dead! and now is
alive! Can't we set our offense aside and rejoice with our Father's heart? and love our prodigal brother's with our heart,like Father
our possesed brother's bear the heat of day..in the number of demons they carry that causes great suffering and ostracizing....
homeless,addicted all the evil fruit..while we with less oppression/free and in a more delivered state from their clutches enjoy a more
comfortable life. They too,could be offended and say Father make them understand how I recieved the bitter in the earth,while they
recieved the sweet[rich man and Lazurus..} they were constantly condemning me to eternal torture even after the great torment of this
life...they even begrudge me be setting free from evil after death.
let us love our brother's as ourselve and exhibit the Father's heart in union and joy with Him. Lets us make music and celebrate
that the 'appearingly" lost is found...sweep your house diligently to find the lost 'talent' of light on this. these are your
sons,daughter's,Aunts cousins..mother's Father's that died...lost/ overcome....and are ALIVE!!!! they died in drug overdoes,
horrific diseases,alcoholics in the street,in prisons...they lived all their days bound in heavy chains of demonic captivity.
I have put these things here to show you another persective to consider..
Jesus Christ is fully able to make atonement for all men[Israel] take away all the sin[place them on Azazel's head and lead the
scapegoat away into an uninhabited land/no flesh to prey on..raise up all men incorruptible without spot or blemish..and make
the spirits of 'just' men perfect in understanding. If we want to be 'just" we must hear Him and Father"s judgement and agree with it.
and not rush to judgement and err or judge before the appointed time.
It is the job of the Holy spirit to convince the world of sin[is a demon] righteousness[free gift] and God's judgement.
Saul,Saul..it is hard for you to kick against the pricks. Father will turn the heart of those who put to death and think they do God a
favour....who refuse the ATONEMENT of the HIGH PRIEST.
Saul,as one born prematurely[rushed to judgement] was given as an example for us..for these very times.
Amazing Sheila!!!!! This was outstanding theology of salvation. It is about everyone and the demons are dangerous, I know that from my own experience with them. But satan has been cast out already as it says in the book of John. He is in the outer darkness and wants our attention. I hope that evil spirit is being destroyed soon so it can't anymore put evil and sin into our poor human lives!
If it is a matter of God tormenting people with literal fire, especially forever, I think everyone on this board is already in agreement about the unbiblical quality of that. However, I believe the whole body of scripture is is clear that there is a coming judgement , even upon angels beings who left their place (Jude). God will not be mocked, so the scripture says, not just me. And God will bring destruction and strong delusion to those who have stored it up for themselves. If it's not unloving for God to do things like that in this life, then it's not unloving for him to use those same tools in the next one either. And I think the scripture is clear to me that he will.
the scriptures bear wittness that it has always been satans desire to rise and rule over the stars[man raised in heavens as angelic form]
in the heavens but he is thrown out and to the earth[a ccusor of the brethern]woe to the earth. You will find no accusor in heaven
perhaps though Jesus will say' you who have never sinned when in the flesh may throw the first stone..to the risen hosts?
but I have faith Jesus Christ,our High Priest shall lead him off to an uninhabited place..neither new heavens or new earth.
One thing we have to remember is that the hand of grace is ALWAYS extended.
Sometimes we speak as if people are helples and there is no help available to them. This, imo, comes from the fatalistic Calvinist view that man has no ability to respond to God, which I personally reject.
I also reject the idea that evil comes from Satan. Satan works through those who agree with him.
The evil that occurs in man is "in accordance with" the doctrines of the devil.
This includes religious oppression as well as using "grace as a license to sin".
Whether one sees the Garden of Eden story as literal or allegorical, the Biblical truth is that Adam and Eve agreed with the serpent and his lies.
In this age, God is drawing mankind to the image of Jesus Christ crucified- as a way of life. As a spirit that speaks of obedience to God and sacrificial love for all. Jesus reached out from the cross and forgave mankind as a whole. He taught, as He walked the earth, how we ought to live in agreement with Him.
He declared that we need the Holy Spirit in our lives in order to live in Him.
That is accessed through prayer. Prayer is answered most powerfully when we agree with God in our praying.
Another thing that seems to abound is this idea that God is not there for people in the world who are in bondage- as if only we, by the proper proclamation can offer them deliverance.
Well, we cant have it both ways. If man is helpless and God does it all, He can reach into any place- any darkness- and bring love, light and freedom.
He does exactly that- all the time. He delivered me without the hand of man by a supernatural revelation of Himself, when I was at the edge of death and madness. Reached in and plucked me out and filled me with life and hope. A branch plucked from the fire(Zech 3:2)
Yet I know for sure tht at times I have refused the grace of God and been stubborn and indifferent to His will.
Wood, hay and stubble eh? :o)
Yet, why would God consume this wood, hay and stubble in the first place if I was helpless in regards to what I was producing?
I wasn't helpless. Somewhere deep down in the depths between soul and spirit, bone and marrow- God cuts with the sword of the Spirit and the secrets of my heart are revealed- to me!
A man looks in the mirror tho, and maybe walks away immediately forgetting what He has seen(James)---
Or, with His eyes fixed upon the author and finisher of his faith, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, he gets transformed gradually(from glory to glory) through trials and temptations(2 Cor 3:16).
IMO< THAT IS THE ONLY PROSECUTION OF ANY KIND, EVER.
God will reveal, at that deep level, to each one and all, who they are - SO THEY CAN BE TRANSFORMED.
And all that is needed is to agree with God.
YES! THAT is who I have been. You are who I want to be.... Holy Spirit renew my mind and heart in the image of Jesus Christ. Change me!
And Boom!, the process begins. God is faithful. He will forgive, cleanse from all unrighteousness, and send the trials and temptations that will, through the supply of the Holy Spirit and His grace, lead us in paths of righteousness for His names sake.
I believe that the lake of fire and the crystal sea are the same thing. A crystal sea is a giant mirror. Everyone can see themselves in it. Light is fire to darkness, everyone hidden thing will be brought to light.
In the lake of fire the image one will see is the true image of themselves without Christ. The true motivations for their actions. The self behind the sin- "On the day when God judges the secrets of mens hearts by Jesus Christ"(Rom 2).
But for those who are not hiding, there will be no need of a lake of fire. For those who have confessed there sins, "God is faithful to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness". When one has been cleansed from all unrighteousness, the lake of fire becomes as a crystal sea before the throne, and a rainbow over it, and Jesus Christ reigning on that throne- and reflecting His glory upon the crystal sea of one's spirit.
When we become aware that we are living, in some way, out of that spirit of obedience and sacrificial love, the image of Christ, the answer is to agree with God. To confess. To ask for deliverance and strength to overcome.
To acknowledge who we have been acting like is the best way to get set free from him(the old man and the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience), because God gives grace to the humble, and He is teaching us truth in the inner man.
Gods has forgiven everyone. Evryone goes through the process of receiving it. That involves judgment(exposure) and discipline and ends- always in mercy. Whether in this age, or in the ages to come.
Quote from: sheila on August 14, 2016, 06:55:32 PM
the scriptures bear wittness that it has always been satans desire to rise and rule over the stars[man raised in heavens as angelic form]
in the heavens but he is thrown out and to the earth[a ccusor of the brethern]woe to the earth. You will find no accusor in heaven
perhaps though Jesus will say' you who have never sinned when in the flesh may throw the first stone..to the risen hosts?
but I have faith Jesus Christ,our High Priest shall lead him off to an uninhabited place..neither new heavens or new earth.
God doesn't need an accuser to understand the condition of sin within men's heart. What accuser did the prodigal son have in the parable? His father gave him every means to put himself to death (figuratively). Judgment is not about throwing stones.
Quote from: eaglesway on August 14, 2016, 07:29:35 PM
In the lake of fire the image one will see is the true image of themselves without Christ. The true motivations for their actions. The self behind the sin- "On the day when God judges the secrets of mens hearts by Jesus Christ"(Rom 2).
But for those who are not hiding, there will be no need of a lake of fire. For those who have confessed there sins, "God is faithful to forgive and cleanse from all unrighteousness". When one has been cleansed from all unrighteousness, the lake of fire becomes as a crystal sea before the throne, and a rainbow over it, and Jesus Christ reigning on that throne- and reflecting His glory upon the crystal sea of one's spirit.
:iagree:
What could be more tormenting than to see the true image of myself without Jesus Christ?
If we reject the word torment, I understand that, especially if we are associating it with pain induced for revenge in a literal fire.
But if that torment is the realization of all we have done that we cloaked in "good" that was for self.....all we failed to do in love because we are so selfish that we pervert all wisdom and truth to serve our ends-
What a beautiful torment that is, and it will vanish the instant one bows the knee and says "You are righteous when you judge Lord, discerning the reins and motives of the heart, because you gave all to redeem all, and I am undone before you."
Sheila,
Your post #36 is now in my "all time favorite posts"!!! I agree with anti_nietzsche: "Amazing Sheila"!!!
John,
You have such a gift. These words just ring so true!:
"A man looks in the mirror tho, and maybe walks away immediately forgetting what He has seen(James)---
Or, with His eyes fixed upon the author and finisher of his faith, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, he gets transformed gradually(from glory to glory) through trials and temptations(2 Cor 3:16).
IMO< THAT IS THE ONLY PROSECUTION OF ANY KIND, EVER.
God will reveal, at that deep level, to each one and all, who they are - SO THEY CAN BE TRANSFORMED.
And all that is needed is to agree with God."
There seem to be a proposition that God cannot judge without an accuser. As though this is all structured like an American courtroom or something. Yes, Satan is an accuser of the brethren, but his absence doesn't mean God is not a judge who can make his own decision. There have been almost countless times in the Bible where God judged without needing input from Satan. It's not like, when God judges people, it's because Satan is whispering in his ear. He is a just judge who knows what everyone needs to both see the truth about themselves and thus repent. I don't see reason that Satan has any part of that.
Exactly. Satn is an accuser, and he accuses the brethren with no mercy as a taskmaster. I see the "throne" of God as the conscience(highest seat of consciousness in man).
God is a judge(discerner) and He judges righteously, meaning to me He sees what is born of love, light and spirit and what is born of self and flesh. He discerns in order to expose for cleansing and transformation.
I dont believe Satan has any part in that. He wnts us to think he does so he can whip the law on us and convince us that we are not forgiven, because he knows forgiveness breeds reconciliation and reconciliation breeds restoration and the power to overcome by grace through the Spirit.
I do believe that when satan is bound for the DAY /1000 year period[ holiness given and mercy over judgment and than let loose of the pit for a short season .
That proof to me is that satan is used for the destruction of our flesh , so in the DAY OF THE LORD they /all SPIRIT OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT WILL SAVED
1Cor 5 4When you are gathered in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 6Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?...
the pride of being in the wrong spirit is set in the Day of the Lord as a religious spirit that is puffed in knowledge and NO LOVE AT ALL in my opinion and is for the falling of Babylon being the REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST the very SPIRIT OF PROPHECY that falls on all whom believe they are saved and no one else is , her flesh will be burned with great fire by the beast tearing her apart I do believe in these times we will see a lot more of the warring as the DAY OF THE LORD IS NEAR and always has been
Quote from: Patinak on August 14, 2016, 08:02:59 PM
Sheila,
Your post #36 is now in my "all time favorite posts"!!! I agree with anti_nietzsche: "Amazing Sheila"!!!
John,
You have such a gift. These words just ring so true!:
"A man looks in the mirror tho, and maybe walks away immediately forgetting what He has seen(James)---
Or, with His eyes fixed upon the author and finisher of his faith, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, he gets transformed gradually(from glory to glory) through trials and temptations(2 Cor 3:16).
IMO< THAT IS THE ONLY PROSECUTION OF ANY KIND, EVER.
God will reveal, at that deep level, to each one and all, who they are - SO THEY CAN BE TRANSFORMED.
And all that is needed is to agree with God."
:dsunny:
Jesus always did the will of the Father on earth..only what He had beheld the Father doing in Heaven. He rebuked the offspring of the
serpents sitting on/in the high-jacked church leaders..and changes Saul's to Pauls. He chose forgiveness and mercy over condemnation.
The Lord rebuked satan..and Joshua was snatched as a smoking branch from the fire. He delivers before the pots feel the heat
of the thorns fire..[mans clay pots]
He has not entirely left man unpunished....we have had to dwell with sin and all it's evil fruit here on earth until our deliverance...
bringing death sickness violence hunger thirst and misery,sorrow.Because of His great love we are not consumed. However,with the
breath of His coming He will consume..'certain" men of sin who have slipped in unawares[viper spirits that corrupted the churches]as
well as the entire earth.
in heaven the dragon for possesing the stars...in the garden the original serpent for possesing the serpents body,the beasts for
changing animals bodies[both animals and natural man'] into ferocious devourers...and man of sin for possesing man and blinding his
understanding.
deliver us from the 'wicked one" because we are many/legion....the only one lost is the son of perdition..shown as satan entering and
possesing Judas' body. Judas the man confess's nd repents..and is saved.
these evil spirits have lived for 1000's and 1000's of years..formerly in heaven and down here...they have also heard many rebukes to
turn from their hatred/destruction on evil. God even wrote the law to restrain these lawless men from doing their evil works unto both
in and through possesed menand beasts.Jesus preached to them in their prison houses[on /in bodies of men and animal's] John the
Baptist told them spirits..who showed you the way....and told them to turn from their evil works and way.
if the negative contrast[wicked one] would have repented[serpent in the tree] man created in both God's image and likeness would have
exhibited His nature. the abyss is uninhabited..and he is loosed to go forth to his doom.
He will gather out of His kingdom all things that cause sin.offense etc. a serpent will not harm a little child because the original
serpent[evil spirit] will not posses it. They lion and lamb lie down togather because the the roaring lion that seeks to devour spirit is
gone. Your eyes will narrowly look upon him and say'is this? the man[of sin/son of perdition] that would not let his prisoner's go
home[through fear of death]? He will reveal this 'hidden' thing unto all..and you will see what you had not[because invisible]
every hidden thing will be revealed[satan] and the intentions of this adversary's heart will be revealed unto all.
flesh without sin in it exhibits the devine nature..so we don't war against flesh and blood..but powers and pricpalities[of darkness]
in HIGH places...even the very temple of God[our bodies of which God's spirit dwells.as sin in the flesh/abomination...the very place
of God's feet[I will walk in them] the very throne of God.
Quote from: sheila on August 14, 2016, 08:45:12 PM
flesh without sin in it exhibits the devine nature..so we don't war against flesh and blood..but powers and pricpalities[of darkness]
in HIGH places...even the very temple of God[our bodies of which God's spirit dwells.as sin in the flesh/abomination...the very place
of God's feet[I will walk in them] the very throne of God.
:dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Amen , I do believe that the Time of the DAY OF THE LORD is to destroy the "strange flesh" lastly as Babylon totally not the human beings so many are believing it means , all of Revelation exposes HER BODY
Those whom always thought they were first will be the last to enter Gods kingdom
Jude 1 God's Judgment on the Ungodly
...6And the angels who did not stay within their own domain, but abandoned their proper dwelling, He keeps under darkness,
in eternal chains for judgment on that great day. 7In like manner, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them,
who indulged in sexual immorality and pursued strange flesh, are on display as an example of those who sustain the punishment of eternal fire.
8Yet in the same way, these dreamers defile their bodies, reject authority, and slander glorious beings....
My belief on that is that there is not necessarily a dilemma between the people and their works. That is what I believe the warning in 2 Peter 3 to the "scoffers who come scoffing" asking "where is the Lord? Everything is as it always was." But, what they forgot is that the same word that created the water that destroyed the world once, reserves a fire for destruction of the ungodly. But, if he seems slow, it's because he is patient, not wanting anyone to perish.
God knows how to deliver the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous to the day of judgment to be punished. As in 2 Peter 2 "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;"
That is the method I believe God will use in the Day of the Lord to open their eyes and show them that picture of themselves. They shall perish, "in their own corruption," utterly. That is how I believe their eyes will be opened to a need for salvation from the very sin they revel in and causes them to scoff. "Their own corruption." Just like how the Prodigal Son's eyes were opened when he perished in "his own corruption."
That is how I Believe the works are destroyed and those who preach peace and safety "shall not escape," as Paul said. The builders will be saved, yet so as by fire, destroying the very house the are in.
no doubt mankind so mingled with the evil spirits to such an extent that every thought was evil..perished in that flood.....a deliverance
from their captivity is one way to look at it. But Father promised and made a covenant with all creatures and man. and showed
through the ARK His preserving of all men and animal life. Now the ARK of the testimony was opened in Heaven..and Christ's body
is the ark that holds the 'word of God' the rod that budded and hidden manna to preserve all life of man and beast.
and there are two wittness of that testimony that lay as dead in the street..overcome of the beast for 3 days...til the spirit of God/life
entered them and they stood on their feet...and a voice from Heaven said 'COME UP HERE" His body in heaven is the ARK that
all enter in unto..to heal and preserve life in His Sabbath 1000 year reign. the end of all flesh has come.
now..the Prince of this world is being plagued.to 'let my people go!" the angel's head is encircled with a rainbow...the clay and iron
mingled will not stand..and God has numbered his days. Our deliverance draws nigh.We shall all be changed in the twinkling of an eye
Yes, God made a covenant that he would not destroy the earth in the same way as with Noah, with water. Be we see what Peter is talking about. Not literal water. A judgment "fire" which will destroy those the ungodly. And through the destruction will come remembrance and repentance.
Quote from: sheila on August 14, 2016, 05:58:34 PM
God taught as a living parable with Israel and Egypt the captivity of His people[all souls are His] because the Prince of this world has His
people in captivity and doing slave sin works.does not hinder His deliverance into the real promised land of Heaven. The wicked generation
[satan and his offspring/scapegoat that perishes in the wilderness and does not enter] is a very important last step of ATONEMENT
done by Jesus as our HIGH PREIST. He places all sin upon the head of AZAZEL the goat and sends him into an unihabited place.
This is very important in understanding HIS JUDGEMENT from God's perspective. Jesus said 'I judge no man" He came to save man
but the Prince of this worl is judged that his works are evil.
some receive/inherit on this side of the river[Jordan] some on the other..but we all bear the image of the corrupt and the incorrupt.
even we that through faith recieve Him now await the substance...and pick up our cross to follow Him and face our last enemy death.
let not the church judge those on the outside..but discern the times we live in. the two edged sword out of His mouth does not
slay men..Elijah slayed the false-prophets[lying spirits] as a parable to show us these truth's..and the difference between Baal
who burns the children in fire..and God's heart to never burn the children in fire..instead He makes man able to dwell in the fire
just like angels.the iron furnance is this earth[iron core]..and He dwells and walks in them and shall unbind them from the earth
that all spirits of life in men dwell.
He recorded all His acts for us..to help us find our way. ALL mankind are His children/sons..they may be prodigals spending/wasting
their life substance on prostitutes drinking and herding swine[legion of evil spirits possesing them] but at their death[want of spirit of
life/death of flesh..He welcomes them home. Elder sons[church people that have served Father in this life] get offended..and miss out
ont the joy of this great celebration if they don't come around. But Father does it anyway..He say's.'this my son was dead! and now is
alive! Can't we set our offense aside and rejoice with our Father's heart? and love our prodigal brother's with our heart,like Father
our possesed brother's bear the heat of day..in the number of demons they carry that causes great suffering and ostracizing....
homeless,addicted all the evil fruit..while we with less oppression/free and in a more delivered state from their clutches enjoy a more
comfortable life. They too,could be offended and say Father make them understand how I recieved the bitter in the earth,while they
recieved the sweet[rich man and Lazurus..} they were constantly condemning me to eternal torture even after the great torment of this
life...they even begrudge me be setting free from evil after death.
let us love our brother's as ourselve and exhibit the Father's heart in union and joy with Him. Lets us make music and celebrate
that the 'appearingly" lost is found...sweep your house diligently to find the lost 'talent' of light on this. these are your
sons,daughter's,Aunts cousins..mother's Father's that died...lost/ overcome....and are ALIVE!!!! they died in drug overdoes,
horrific diseases,alcoholics in the street,in prisons...they lived all their days bound in heavy chains of demonic captivity.
I have put these things here to show you another persective to consider..
Jesus Christ is fully able to make atonement for all men[Israel] take away all the sin[place them on Azazel's head and lead the
scapegoat away into an uninhabited land/no flesh to prey on..raise up all men incorruptible without spot or blemish..and make
the spirits of 'just' men perfect in understanding. If we want to be 'just" we must hear Him and Father"s judgement and agree with it.
and not rush to judgement and err or judge before the appointed time.
It is the job of the Holy spirit to convince the world of sin[is a demon] righteousness[free gift] and God's judgement.
Saul,Saul..it is hard for you to kick against the pricks. Father will turn the heart of those who put to death and think they do God a
favour....who refuse the ATONEMENT of the HIGH PRIEST.
Saul,as one born prematurely[rushed to judgement] was given as an example for us..for these very times.
That was awesomely written, Sheila!! Poetic.. Because so very very true..!
...A lot of great posts, thoughts, in this thread!
God bless! :gsmile:
It is not our place to judge at all, when it comes to mankind in general.
We present the grace of God, and warn of His judgment, as Jesus, Paul and Peter did.
Mt 25:24 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' 46"These will go away into eternal punishment(correction olam), but the righteous into eternal life(life olam)."
Acts 24:25 As Paul talked about righteousness, self-control and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and said, "That's enough for now! You may leave."
1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
God is able to do anything. He was able, if He intended to, without any judgment or trial or correction, usher all into grace without need of a Savior, or repentance.
Perhaps He wanted to teach us something in order to bring us into something we could not learn without all that has passed until now, and all that will pass into the future.
Everyone will learn that lesson, each in his own order.
Every knee will bow, whether in earth, or under the earth, or in heaven- and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ os Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Not because He forces them to, but because eventually all will come to see the glory of Christ crucified, and the superiority of His love.
Quote from: Seth on August 14, 2016, 06:34:57 PM
If it is a matter of God tormenting people with literal fire, especially forever, I think everyone on this board is already in agreement about the unbiblical quality of that. However, I believe the whole body of scripture is is clear that there is a coming judgement , even upon angels beings who left their place (Jude). God will not be mocked, so the scripture says, not just me. And God will bring destruction and strong delusion to those who have stored it up for themselves. If it's not unloving for God to do things like that in this life, then it's not unloving for him to use those same tools in the next one either. And I think the scripture is clear to me that he will.
I can't help thinking there'll be some really "hard cases" which, unfortunately, do not bend the knee in awe at seeing and being in God's presence. Maybe.. the despots and really bad ones? ..But then again, the realization of how they harmed others may hit them in the face full brunt..
Some I think too get some comeuppance at the conclusion of things in their own life and times, some suffering the crumbling of their empire (apocalypse, the unveiling).. sometimes fiery.. And the example of what their life was, also a judgment and a 'destroying'. People can take their life very seriously.. Why else would losing all ones money in a stock market crash make some jump out of a high rise? They think they were destroyed..
Of course the Savior of the world will reach them and be triumphant in them all! :banana:
"If I be lifted up from the earth" Jesus said, "I will draw all to me." John 12:32
"All things under His feet" .."will not lose anything given Him"
I think Peter's message overall is that God is just. And I think justice will be done in God's way custom made to whoever needs it. I don't think that a mass resurrection to instant perfection for everyone is what the scripture says though I dont think judgment means the same hard experience for all. I think it's individually applied which is different than what I used to think, everyone in the same physical fire.
In the case of our divine "prosecutor", I believe the nature of His cross examination will be, "Come, let us reason togehter, though your sins be as scarlet I will wash them white as snow". :o)
God does not want to punish us, but, He wants our transformation. For us to be transformed, we must walk in the spirit and not in the flesh.
As many said before, that is a process....whether fast or slow. My own journey was a slow process. I know many people had a very different, 'lightning bolt' type of experience.
God will use what He sees fit for each of us.
I love the image of the Lake of Fire as a reflection of the image of ourselves, without Christ.
Whow!
I think that God wants us to learn through our experiences that we choose Him. He already knew what we would do....... when, and where.
My :2c:
D.
Quote from: eaglesway on August 14, 2016, 11:47:18 PM
Every knee will bow, whether in earth, or under the earth, or in heaven- and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ os Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Not because He forces them to, but because eventually all will come to see the glory of Christ crucified, and the superiority of His love.
yes..an atheist told me last Saturday if he died and saw Jesus he would fall down n repent..all will humble themselves and repent eventually. :iagree: :dsunny:
Quote from: darryl on August 15, 2016, 01:32:07 AM
Quote from: eaglesway on August 14, 2016, 11:47:18 PM
Every knee will bow, whether in earth, or under the earth, or in heaven- and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ os Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Not because He forces them to, but because eventually all will come to see the glory of Christ crucified, and the superiority of His love.
yes..an atheist told me last Saturday if he died and saw Jesus he would fall down n repent..all will humble themselves and repent eventually. :iagree: :dsunny:
Sad but true , they remain blind prisoners their whole earthly lives ,refusing to give Glory to God from the hardness of their hearts the seed stolen by the devil , that seed never took root in the Love of Christ :sigh:
The seed is the word of God.
12 And they by the way side are they that hear; then the devil comes, and takes the word out of their heart, lest believing they should be saved.
13 Now they upon the rock, are they who when they hear, receive the word with joy: and these have no roots; for they believe for a while, and in time of temptation, they fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns, are they who have heard, and going their way, are choked with the cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and yield no fruit.
15 But that on the good ground, are they who in a good and perfect heart, hearing the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit in patience. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Seth on August 15, 2016, 12:10:49 AM
I think Peter's message overall is that God is just. And I think justice will be done in God's way custom made to whoever needs it. I don't think that a mass resurrection to instant perfection for everyone is what the scripture says though I dont think judgment means the same hard experience for all. I think it's individually applied which is different than what I used to think, everyone in the same physical fire.
Considering that the fire is a metaphor for the disolving/dissipation of every veil, and if one were to view every veil as s tronghold and a fortress exalted against the true knowledge of God, a lie construct to cover ones nakedness, I agree that it is highly individual.
Yet also, since there is no temptation come upon me that is not common to man, it wont need to be too awful distinctve from person to person.
The nature of it is to expose. I think it interesting that a fiery sword was placed at Eden's Gate to prevent re-entry.
In Zechariah somewhere the Lord says, "I will be a wall of fire around Zion", while in Rev it says "Outside are the dogs, the fornicators, the sorcerers, everyone who loves and makes a lie"......
Why? Because God is a wall of fire around Zion. No one gets in without going through the fire. "His eyes are like flames of fire".....
This to me is not "heaven" except that "wherever two or more gather in my name there I am in the midst of you" - But heaven is going to swallow earth
"the veil in the heavens were pulled back like a scroll and the sign of the son of man appeared in the heavens"
The Zion of Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
and the heavenly city descending in Rev 21
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. They will be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God....
Are the same Zion surrounded by His fire in Zech "And I myself will be a wall of fire around it,' declares the LORD, 'and I will be its glory within."
As it says also in Rev of the city, the heavenly Jerusalem of Hebrews 12,
"The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp." Just as Zechariah 2:5said, and as Isaiah 25 :6-8 says,
On this mountain the Lord Almighty will prepare
a feast of rich food for all peoples,
a banquet of aged wine—
the best of meats and the finest of wines.
On this mountain he will destroy
the shroud(veil/covering) that enfolds all peoples,
the sheet that covers all nations;
he will swallow up death forever.
The Sovereign Lord will wipe away the tears
from all faces;
he will remove his people's disgrace
from all the earth.
And as Isaiah and Micah say together
Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."
This is the house of prayer for all people, built of living stones, in the bond of peace, the chief cornerstone being Jesus Christ- the door and the way through the fire "having a new and living way into the holy of holies.....having our hearts cleansed from an evil conscience(reconciliation) and our bodies washed with pure water(sanctification)"
It is already coming down from heaven. It is already surrounded by fire. People are already being granted entrance. People are already being held out of it.
"You have come to Mt Zion and the heavenly Jerusalem...."
Who wants to fall like lightning out of it? That can be a hard landing :o)
Abide in humilty, abide in the vine, walk in love, forgive and seek the Way, the Truth and the Life! The fruit of the tree of life and the healing of its leaves will be yours again!
Or just keep taking big luscious bites out of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. There will be a wall of fire keeping you out of Zion and the new Jerusalem, and a fiery sword preventing you from eating of the tree of life :o)
Metaphorically yours in Christ lol, Eaglesway
Blessings John it is like so many speaking the same things of old and new . Yes leaving those things of death behind us , no not touch it .. Thanks Amen!! :HeartThrob:
zECH 2 The Man with a Measure
...4and said to him, "Run, speak to that young man, saying, 'Jerusalem will be inhabited without walls because of the multitude of men and cattle within it.
5For I,' declares the LORD, will be a wall of fire around her, and I will be the glory in her midst.'" 6"Ho there! Flee from the land of the north," declares the LORD, "for I have dispersed you as the four winds of the heavens," declares the LORD....
Psalm 46:5
God is in the midst of her, she will not be moved; God will help her when morning dawns.
Psalm 85:9
Surely His salvation is near to those who fear Him, That glory may dwell in our land.
Psalm 125:2
As the mountains surround Jerusalem, So the LORD surrounds His people From this time forth and forever.
Isaiah 4:5
then the LORD will create over the whole area of Mount Zion and over her assemblies a cloud by day, even smoke, and the brightness of a flaming fire by night; for over all the glory will be a canopy.
Isaiah 12:6
Cry aloud and shout for joy, O inhabitant of Zion, For great in your midst is the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 26:1
In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: "We have a strong city; He sets up walls and ramparts for security.
Isaiah 31:9
"His rock will pass away because of panic, And his princes will be terrified at the standard," Declares the LORD, whose fire is in Zion and whose furnace is in Jerusalem.
Isaiah 32:18
Then my people will live in a peaceful habitation, And in secure dwellings and in undisturbed resting places;
Isaiah 60:18
"Violence will not be heard again in your land, Nor devastation or destruction within your borders; But you will call your walls salvation, and your gates praise.
Isaiah 60:19
"No longer will you have the sun for light by day, Nor for brightness will the moon give you light; But you will have the LORD for an everlasting light, And your God for your glory.
:dsunny:
Universal Reconcilationists dont believe 'hell' is eternal ...we believe that, ultimately, ALL will be reconciled to God through Christ. :banana: :dsunny: :dsunny: :banana:
Zech 2
3While the angel who was speaking to me was leaving, another angel came to meet him 4and said to him: "Run, tell that young man, 'Jerusalem will be a city without walls because of the great number of people and animals in it. 5And I myself will be a wall of fire around it,' declares the Lord, 'and I will be its glory within.'
6"Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north," declares the Lord, "for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven," declares the Lord.
7"Come, Zion! Escape, you who live in Daughter Babylon!" 8For this is what the Lord Almighty says: "After the Glorious One has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye— 9I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me.
The slaves will plunder their masters. because of that wall of fire, which I find very interesting as a metaphorical correlation with sin.
Isaiah 30
27 See, the Name of the Lord comes from afar,
with burning anger and dense clouds of smoke;
his lips are full of wrath,
and his tongue is a consuming fire.
28 His breath is like a rushing torrent,
rising up to the neck.
He shakes the nations in the sieve of destruction;
he places in the jaws of the peoples
a bit that leads them astray.
29 And you will sing
as on the night you celebrate a holy festival;
your hearts will rejoice
as when people playing pipes go up
to the mountain of the Lord,
to the Rock of Israel.
30 The Lord will cause people to hear his majestic voice
and will make them see his arm coming down
with raging anger and consuming fire,
with cloudburst, thunderstorm and hail.
31 The voice of the Lord will shatter Assyria;
with his rod he will strike them down.
32 Every stroke the Lord lays on them
with his punishing club
will be to the music of timbrels and harps,
as he fights them in battle with the blows of his arm.
33 Topheth (Gehenna) has long been prepared;
it has been made ready for the king.
Its fire pit has been made deep and wide,
with an abundance of fire and wood;
the breath of the Lord,
like a stream of burning sulfur,
sets it ablaze.
This reminds me how that in Deuteronomy how that God is a consuming fire, as a warning to them not to sin or be removed from their place and sent into Babylon, and also how the Egypt enslavers were to them an iron smelting fire.
Yet in Zechariah, he invites them back and promises a wall of fire of himself as protection while he judges Babylon the same way he judged Israel, sending them into slavery, turning the tables. Judging according to their works, slavery for the enslavers. Thus, all are humbled.
On the one hand the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity, and is set on fire of Gehenna. And yet Topeth also is set ablaze by the breath of the Lord. Topeth was the place in Gehenna where Israel set the fire to sacrifice thier children. Yet he uses his own breath to increase the fire of Topeth for Assyria. Similarly I believe the LOF is stoked by his breath. As Paul said about the Law, it was given so that the offense might increase, and we see an example of that in Romans 7 with coveting.
"Away from me, ye who work iniquity."
"For once my son was dead, and now he is alive." His judgments are wise.
:thumbsup:
30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him [m]that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
Topeth is the place where the priests of Baal worshipped Molech and sacrificed children to the flames. It is also the place Josiah broke down the altars and burned the bones of the priests and made it into a place for burning unclean things.
When Jesus spoke to the Pharisees about Gehenna they were very familiar with what He was saying, representing Himself as a reforming king and representing the Pharisees as priests of Baal.
Quote from: Cristina100 on August 13, 2016, 02:12:57 PM
Does that mean I'm free from any condemnation?
Being justified means you are free from any condemnation. It goes beyond forgiveness and actually points to and covers you in the richness and colorful robe of His glory. All He has accomplished...is your inhertance.
Quote from: Lazarus Short on July 26, 2016, 05:18:20 PM
I have been going back over my book, doing some editing, writing an Introduction, and so forth. Yesterday, I got to a section having to do with the Lake of Fire, and having soon before reviewed some texts on the Devil/Satan/Lucifer/THE ADVERSARY, this crazy idea came to me.
Revelation 12:10 says Satan (Prince of Heck) accuses the Brethren night and day before God. You could say that he acts as a prosecutor. Well, in Revelation 20:2, he is bound for 1000 years and tossed into the abyss. Then in 20:10, he is cast into the LoF. Here's where things get interesting - the White Throne Judgment follows immediately in 20:11 and following. Do you see that God delays the Judgment until the prosecution is taken out of the way? I just imagine person after person, coming to the dock, and the Defense is ready, but the Prosecutor's chair is empty. Then the only thing that can happen, happens: "Case dismissed!" God is just beyond clever!! :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:
kool !..never thought of that !...good point :thumbsup: :banana: :dsunny:
However, it does say he accuses the "brethren" before the throne of God.... I think Job is a case in point.
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
As well as Joshua the high priest....
Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. 2 The Lord said to Satan, "The Lord rebuke you, Satan! Indeed, the Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?" 3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and standing before the angel. 4 He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, saying, "Remove the filthy garments from him." Again he said to him, "See, I have taken your iniquity away from you and will clothe you with festal robes." 5 Then I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with garments, while the angel of the Lord was standing by.
So to me it seems the ones whom Satn accuses are those who are servants of the Lord.
The rest need not be accused.
There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. john 12:48
IMO this is consistent with Heb 4:12,13
For the word of the Lord is living and active and sharper than any two edged sword, dividing asunder soul and spirit and making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
And Romans 2:16.....Their conscience either accusing them or excusing them on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
I agree tho that the "prosecutor's chair" will be empty. The point of the Great White Throne is not prosecution. It is revelation. The only accusation will be from the conscience of the creatures laid bare before Him in the penetrating and all-consuming light of His face. Those veils may vanish in an instant as some believe, or they may take some time for some of the more rebellious adversaries, as I believe, but in the end every heart will be pierced and every adversary reconciled- Thank God we all agree on that. :o)
And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing(lost). 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5For what we preach is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"a made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God's glory displayed in the face of Christ.
[/b]
The veils will be rent by like fog being dispelled by the warmth of the rising sun.
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him — even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.
I think they will mourn because they will become aware that they crucified the One who loved them all enough to lay down His life for them and they will, imo, bow their knees before Him in repentance and thankfulness when the adversary in them, the carnal nature, is slain by the brightness of His appearing and the sword that proceeds out of His mouth.
"Evry knee shall bow , whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
Reply to Rosered...
Such beauty in Him extended
Theologically questioned~
No matter, brave sister
Re-write their scribbles
In heavenly ink
Splashed in Rainbow tones
Above
...from above...
Is a sight seen
True
Quote from: Song91 on November 05, 2016, 07:11:00 AM
Reply to Rosered...
Such beauty in Him extended
Theologically questioned~
No matter, brave sister
Re-write their scribbles
In heavenly ink
Splashed in Rainbow tones
Above
...from above...
Is a sight seen
True
Blessing Song 91 AMEN!
All is real of Israel , the 70 years of Captivity of Babylon is somes whole earthly lives in my own thoughts and opinion , But God in His mercy and true Glory are setting the captives FREE [time is short ]
The SPIRIT of Truth shall set us ALL free , the WORD IS A FIRE
Jer 23 ...28"The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth.
What does straw have in common with grain?" declares the LORD.
29"Is not My word like fire?" declares the LORD, "and like a hammer which shatters a rock?
30"Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," declares the LORD, "who steal My words from each other....
The cleansing fire of Gods love in jealousy will not give His glory to another
Isaiah 42 ...7To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.
8"I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.
9"Behold, the former things have come to pass, Now I declare new things; Before they spring forth
I proclaim them to you."
... pouring out His own Spirit on all flesh and Jesus Christ tells us in John 14 26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.
27Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives.
Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid....
and the Holy Spirit which the Father sends in my name will set the hearts on FIRE WITH HOLY SPIRIT and open heaven in the scriptures as a burning within us in that narrow path that leads to Life ..
This testimony of Jesus Christ is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY AND AS TRUE AS TRUE CAN BE REAL in the eyes of the SPIRIT OF LIFE CAN BE ... WE SEE JESUS Hebrews 2
...8
and placed everything under his feet." When God subjected all things to him, He left nothing outside of his control. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.
10In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting for God, for whom and through whom all things exist, to make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.
TASTING DEATH FOR EVERYONE !!! not just a few or the chosen , BUT EVERYONE WHOM HAS BORE the earthly corruptible vain image , has also bore the heavenly image also /hidden inner man of Christ and will glorify GOD though this suffering , we see the world in right now ....
I cannot wait till GOD BE ALL IN ALL :HeartThrob: Thank you for seeing Him as He is ,as we wait on the Lord , being MOST GLORIOUS !!! :dsunny:
ALL in ALL...I perceive it as NOW/TODAY. for God bound up ALL men in disobedience in order to show mercy unto ALL.
The Father has delivered all things into my hands...
it is the Father's will that I loose nothing of ALL He has given me..but should raise it UP again at the last day....
For God has bound ALL men in disobedience..in order to show mercy unto ALL.......
...it will be said in the same place it was said 'NOT MY PEOPLE".....'Ye are the sons of the LIVING GOD!" I say it now..because of these
scriptures..the whole creation has been groaning for this very revelation.....and manifestation of Christ's fullness,glory and the Glory
Of Father and just what they have done. Magnify the Lord! O'my soul!..can a nation be born in a day? Before she travail's can she bring forth?
For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. ro 8
...6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. eph 2
You made him a little lower than the angels; You crowned him with glory and honor 8and placed everything under his feet." When God subjected all things to him, He left nothing outside of his control. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. heb 2
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet."c Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 1 cor 15
IMO these verses show that God is not yet all in all to all, because all things are not yet gathered into one in Christ, and as yet every knee has not bow3ed and every tongue has not yet confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father- so as yet every adversary has not been subjected and as yet all things have not been gathered into one in Christ Jesus.
With all wisdom and understanding, he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. Eph 1
All things must be brought into unity before God will be all in all.