Why do we die? aka The "price"

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: You know, I know there's something there in Truth that has been seen thru the darkened glass (soul) and corrupted, but I have not been given revelation on it yet.What I have seen or experienced in that regard, I don't understand yet, and refuse to speculate on what it might have meant until He gives me understanding. I know He's not limited by anything, so He can do what He wants. Blessings......

[Michele]

:cloud9: Well.....let me ask you......how old was Jesus when He got it? Did his mortal body change in age? Was he still male? Where is his woman? I've already established it all happened in Him thru the Spirit before the literal cross.

Male and female made He THEM. If your soul/woman is one with your Spirit/man, bringing the soul back into union with the Spirit is the first resurrection. Think about it. At death the soul and spirit are divided. We died in Adam. We are ALIVE (read resurrected here) IN CHRIST. But if you die to self while still in the body, you are brought into union with the Spirit, FULL UNION.

That is why man is in bondage to the FEAR of death all of his days. It's not the fear of dying that keeps him in bondage, it's the fear of dying to SELF, and losing that separate but false identity we got in the fall/division. That's why perfect-ed love casts out all fear, instead of what we would take to be the opposite of love, which is hate. No greater love has any man than he lay down his life for his friend. Blessings to you.....

Cardinal.....I see this too.  I like the way you explain it.

[Taffy]

I second SG..
way to go Cardinal... :thumbsup:

Taffy

[joian]

That is why man is in bondage to the FEAR of death all of his days. It's not the fear of dying that keeps him in bondage, it's the fear of dying to SELF, and losing that separate but false identity we got in the fall/division. That's why perfect-ed love casts out all fear, instead of what we would take to be the opposite of love, which is hate. No greater love has any man than he lay down his life for his friend. Blessings to you.....

Man alive Card..........that blessed me.........(or should I say Man dying......LOL)!

And of course,  and yes, the opposite of love is fear.........and it always undermines love......it always casts aspersions on the one we love when we see him through our darkened soul eyes.......

Love you,

Joian

[Cardinal]

 :thumbsup: LOL, hey liked that, man dying, LOL....love you too.......don't be a stranger.....where's our mutual friend? Haven't seen his signature in a while......

[fire walker]

I do not take the letter of the resurrection as fundamentally literal as many do. The word tells us,  we are sown in a natural body, we are raised a spiritual body, not we are sowen in a natural body and raised a natual body, to teach it so literally to the letter that it is that which is Sowen that is raised then what hope are we giving those and what should we say then to physicaly matured conjoined twins, to those born so deformed that it is beyond description, to those who have the development and come to maturity of both male and female organs equally able to bear a child and also father a child in one body, impeded?

If it be as literally to the letter as what many say, what is this preaching literalism to the letter doing to those I just mentioned but to fill them with guilt and fear thus quenching their hope ? a very un-loving thing is preaching the letter. Just as the blind, who has sined that they are born such? niether these people nor their parents have sinned for them to be born so in their natural bodies.

What should we say about the baby that is killed or dies, that they shall be babies forever?  Raised in a baby body and to remain so for all eternity?
are those that are killed not raised in a spiritual body, how about those who are destroyed by fires, floods? We do not seek death we seek life     

Those who are turned over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that the soul my be saved in the day of salvation? even the road to destruction leads to life my friends all because of what Jesus Christ has done and not anything we of ourselves may or may not do, no man is without LOVE, say what we say  yea or nay no man is without love to say that some have no love is to say God only loves some, we who now believe know better than that.

Peace,
Fire walker

[Redlettervoice]

Everyone of you on this tread, ............you need to go read Dr. Stephen Jones article that Seeker SA
posted yesterday called 'The BARLEY Overcomers!"  In it, he touches on "putting on the new
incorruptible body" rather than "going to heaven" to get it. 

That does not negate the fact or truth that we bear in "this" mortal body ......the marks of the CROSS.

Just how he was understanding all that, I am not quite sure.  But that was a really good article and I
noticed that no one went over there to discuss it but ME!! Oh, lonesome me.........

I sure would like to hear some of you after you have taken the time to read thru all that...........

Each one of you let another one on here know about the article after you have read it, ok?

Thanks..........

[Michele]

Hey Redlettervoice......can you put the link to the article on this thread?

Thanks for the post!   :icon_flower:

[Michele]

Thought you all might enjoy this (it pertains to the thread).......anyway, it made me cry.  :HeartThrob:

This church video below displays the "seemingly harmless PULL" that exists in the world.  So many distractions and worldy attractions try to steal our time with Him, but nothing truly satisfies like being with our Lord and Saviour.  Jesus is ALWAYS lovingly waiting to receive each of us back, regardless of what we've done, where we've been, who we've hurt.  I thought this was AWESOME and everyone should watch it, not just once but whenever we feel Satan pulling us away.

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ee73e63418003b47d7d5

[Redlettervoice]

Stained Glass and others..........if you read my post below you will see that I recommended the article

by Stephen Jones on the Revelation section ........called "The Barley Overcomers" ........

You asked for the link.  I don't blame you, getting lost in here.  I am ashamed to tell you but MY

blame computer shows page 3 sometimes and it will be the first page.......never mind, I'm learning how

to read backwards......ha

Here's the LINK:

http://tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=546.0

[Hennessey]

Thought you all might enjoy this (it pertains to the thread).......anyway, it made me cry.  :HeartThrob:

This church video below displays the "seemingly harmless PULL" that exists in the world.  So many distractions and worldy attractions try to steal our time with Him, but nothing truly satisfies like being with our Lord and Saviour.  Jesus is ALWAYS lovingly waiting to receive each of us back, regardless of what we've done, where we've been, who we've hurt.  I thought this was AWESOME and everyone should watch it, not just once but whenever we feel Satan pulling us away.

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ee73e63418003b47d7d5

SG, I thank you for posting that link. I had been going through such a pressure filled place when I watched that. I wept and had such an overdue washing by His tender grace. It was also a great one to send to my kids which I did.

Jack

[Michele]

Thought you all might enjoy this (it pertains to the thread).......anyway, it made me cry.  :HeartThrob:

This church video below displays the "seemingly harmless PULL" that exists in the world.  So many distractions and worldy attractions try to steal our time with Him, but nothing truly satisfies like being with our Lord and Saviour.  Jesus is ALWAYS lovingly waiting to receive each of us back, regardless of what we've done, where we've been, who we've hurt.  I thought this was AWESOME and everyone should watch it, not just once but whenever we feel Satan pulling us away.

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ee73e63418003b47d7d5

SG, I thank you for posting that link. I had been going through such a pressure filled place when I watched that. I wept and had such an overdue washing by His tender grace. It was also a great one to send to my kids which I did.

Jack

Hey Jack.....it's beautiful isn't it?  His love for us is beautiful.  The skit just reminded me how much He really does care and love us so completely.  He is truly our everything.  :HeartThrob:

I'm so glad you enjoyed it, and I pray your children can find a peace that they can hold on to after seeing that skit.

Much love and blessings your way my friend.  :icon_flower:

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Atoms of all kind get old and change forms when they die. All matter changes form. The human body changes form when it dies. The soul is the process of what goes on to make thought possible, using your 5 senses in the conscious and the subconscious interrelation with the body is soul and flesh making human. This goes on to a higher level when the body stops working.

As far as Spiritual Death, not flesh death, this is why God had to anoint a Son in His order to produce a Messiah  to cover ALL Sin. The vail shielded God from sin in the old order of the holy of holies. Now His Christ shields God from all sin and has done away with sin because Any one that was under that shield, (All Things) IS In Christ (Past tense) 2009 years ago. And anyone that follows the universal belief is ( I Believe ) Sin Free. Because WE don't follow the law i.e. all 640 laws of the Jews.

We get our new Life IN the Anointed. Those who follow some kind of law, don't know that they have life, this is His Gift and His way that All Mankind will, in some future time come to know Him...
Hartley Damboise II

[Raggedy Anne]

I believe that because we are the body of Christ that we are to share in both his death as well as his resurrection.   It was necessary for death to enter the world in order for God to demonstrate life.   We could not know anything without experiencing its opposite (joy/sorrow), (life/death), (peace/war)....etc....  We had to as Adam's race taste of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in order to KNOW God, surely.    That's what it boils down to in my mind.  I do often think and believe that there is a lot of unnecessary evil and suffering because humanity is so ignorant of the glory of righteousness.   We are like a bunch of blind wounded animals walking around in pain -
This sort of question always makes me think of Psalm Chapter 2:

Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Anointed One.
"Let us break their chains," they say, "and throw off their fetters."
The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them.
Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
"I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."
I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father.
Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.
You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces like pottery."
Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

[Redlettervoice]

I believe that because we are the body of Christ that we are to share in both his death as well as his resurrection.   It was necessary for death to enter the world in order for God to demonstrate life.   We could not know anything without experiencing its opposite (joy/sorrow), (life/death), (peace/war)....etc....  We had to as Adam's race taste of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in order to KNOW God, surely.    That's what it boils down to in my mind.  I do often think and believe that there is a lot of unnecessary evil and suffering because humanity is so ignorant of the glory of righteousness.   We are like a bunch of blind wounded animals walking around in pain -
This sort of question always makes me think of Psalm Chapter 2:

Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Anointed One.
"Let us break their chains," they say, "and throw off their fetters."
The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them.
Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
"I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."
I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father.
Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.
You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces like pottery."
Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth.
Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Over on Wisefire this morning, I read this:Luke 9:53-56
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
>



You know, I sure see the "human heart" being spoken to by Jesus right here.
The first verse makes sense when you realize what was going to happen "in
Jerusalem." I guess I will never forget a girl teaching me a long time ago that
Jesus said "Behold, "WE" go!!"

And those last verses: Wow! Sure speaks! Don't it? The "call down fire realm"
that "really DESTROYs" mens lives......is NOT the "saving realm!" What Jesus
was about to do was the SAVING of men's lives.

Thank you Lord.

And as Paul, some have to "make up" that which is lacking........Maybe He was
talking to some right then.

Jesus put one message "down" that men thought was "the saving
knowledge of God" and brought forth the "truth" ...........one is "fire"
and one is LIGHT.  Zech. says and at the evening, it shall be LIGHT!