When is scripture taken out of context inspired by God?

Started by gregoryfl, August 17, 2009, 01:27:26 AM

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gregoryfl

August 17, 2009, 01:27:26 AM
Act 1:16  "Brothers, what the Holy Spirit predicted through David in Scripture about Judas had to come true. Judas led the men to arrest Jesus.
Act 1:17  He had been one of us and had been given an active role in this ministry.
Act 1:18  With the money he received from the wrong he had done, he bought a piece of land where he fell headfirst to his death. His body split open, and all his internal organs came out.
Act 1:19  Everyone living in Jerusalem knows about this. They even call that piece of land Akeldama, which means 'Field of Blood' in their dialect.
Act 1:20  You've read in Psalms, 'Let his home be deserted, and let no one live there,' and 'Let someone else take his position.'" "Therefore, someone must be added to our number to serve with us as a witness that Jesus came back to life.

Peter took two parts of completely different Psalms, and quoted them out of context to make them speak about Judas. Ask yourself, "Who's home is to be deserted, according to the Psalm, and who is David speaking about when he prays that someone else take his position? Who is the 'his' here?"

I am bringing this up because of something Chosen said, which sounds good on the surface, but is not what it appears, for scripture is to be understood by revelation of the spirit to our spirit, not by our fleshly rules of interpretation using our natural minds. Yes, such interpretation does help us get a surface meaning of things, but there is so much more under the surface, where the natural mind cannot go. Peter use of the Psalms is just one of many examples of such spiritual interpretation.

Ron

Cardinal

#1
August 17, 2009, 09:39:08 AM
 :cloud9: AMEN, Ron.........Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

martincisneros

#2
August 17, 2009, 05:55:34 PM
Neither Peter nor any of the other Apostles ever took any Scriptures out of context :Sparkletooth:

ChosenofGod37

#3
August 17, 2009, 05:58:00 PM
No, because they were inspired by God to write them. Pretty good teacher. All false doctrine are created by man lifting up scriptures and taking them out of context.

jabcat

#4
August 17, 2009, 05:59:52 PM
Which is what I've seen you doing.  Spew orthodox dogma and touting it as the truth doesn't necessarily make it so.

I won't argue with you, because I perceive that's what you're here to do.  Handle with care.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

martincisneros

#5
August 17, 2009, 06:08:17 PM
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 17, 2009, 05:58:00 PM
No, because they were inspired by God to write them. Pretty good teacher. All false doctrine are created by man lifting up scriptures and taking them out of context.
EXACTLY :Sparkletooth:

jabcat

#6
August 17, 2009, 06:22:51 PM Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 06:29:17 PM by jabcat
Ron, not to support 37's views - believe me, that's not my point.

But I personally DON"T believe we are to take scripture out of context.  Causes all sorts of problems, can "make" many things say differently as to what (I believe) the original intent of scripture may be.

My belief is that when anyone in scripture appears to "take something out of context", they have in fact, CREATED OUR CONTEXT.  They've written (by the Holy Spirit) the scripture.  It was their job, not ours.  As we're not the authors, IMO, we shouldn't attempt to re-write it by applying it/mis-applying it as suits our own doctrinal biases.

Their use of scripture, however they were led by the Holy Spirit, became our context.  My  :2c:.
The oldest known manuscripts agree with each other 99% of the time.  The scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit revealed - reliable.   Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2

gregoryfl

#7
August 17, 2009, 09:42:16 PM
As I promised, I would not respond to any answer by trying to give any rebuttal. I would only ask you again Chosen, when you read the 2 Psalms that Peter quotes from, who is David speaking about? Is it Judas in that context? I would like to understand how you see it. I am not interested in hearing anything but what directly answers the question, if you are willing to answer it.

Ron

Seth

#8
August 17, 2009, 10:57:41 PM
Quote from: ChosenofGod37 on August 17, 2009, 05:58:00 PM
No, because they were inspired by God to write them. Pretty good teacher. All false doctrine are created by man lifting up scriptures and taking them out of context.

This could only be true by saying: "All false doctrine are created by man lifting up scriptures and taking them out of context, WITHOUT the guidance of the Spirit."

If you stand on this sentence alone: "All false doctrine are created by man lifting up scriptures and taking them out of context," then you are calling NT doctrine to be unsound because they lifted verses out of context all the time.

333

#9
August 18, 2009, 09:02:09 PM Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 09:44:02 PM by 333
Quotefor scripture is to be understood by revelation of the spirit to our spirit, not by our fleshly rules of interpretation using our natural minds. Yes, such interpretation does help us get a surface meaning of things, but there is so much more under the surface, where the natural mind cannot go.

Amen.

Jesus himself quoted scripture all the time and took it out of context. If you study ever verse Jesus quoted you will see this. He even quoted "half a verse" and said it to mean something other than it would of meant if He had quoted the whole verse. 

It is because it is the Holy Spirit that must give the interpretation.  If the carnal mind is striving to understand it will automatically want the scriptures before and after to give "understanding",, but that is still that natural man striving to understand what must be clearly given by the Holy Spirit. It is Spirit to Spirit. 

Also , scripture never used to have chapters and verses. 

Doc

#10
August 18, 2009, 10:38:25 PM
333, Yes!

Jesus even "contradicted" the scripture in some cases. "You have heard it said, but I say..." Jesus blasted the Pharisees because they treated the scripture as the God who was standing before them. He told them they were trying to find life in the scriptures, when the scriptures were pointing to Him, the living Word; the Way, the Truth and the Life.

claypot

#11
August 20, 2009, 06:56:22 PM
Good stuff Doc!!!

cp
For it is God who works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

333

#12
August 21, 2009, 01:20:40 AM
QuoteJesus even "contradicted" the scripture in some cases. "You have heard it said, but I say..."

Yes! Amen Doc!!

willieH

#13
August 21, 2009, 02:59:55 AM
willieH: Hi Doc...

I'M-a-gonna --> "3rd" this, cp & 333!  :happygrin:

Good stuff brother DOC!  :happyclap:

The SCRIPTURE is an INTERCHANGEABLE CONTEXT, for it emerges from a SINGLE SOURCE...  :boogie:

JESUS noted the NEW COVENANT which IS ETERNAL and set IN THE SPIRITUAL, ...which superceded the OLD COVENANT which was (obviously) TEMPORAL and set IN THE NATURAL... How's THAT for some ..."CONTEXT"!  :laughing7:

...willieH  :HeartThrob:

Cardinal

#14
August 21, 2009, 03:15:17 AM
 :cloud9: That context works for me, WillieH!  :thumbsup: Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Beloved Servant

#16
August 21, 2009, 03:34:16 AM
 WEYMOUTH NT - 1 CORINTHIANS 2




2:1 And as for myself, brethren, when I came to you, it was not with surpassing power of eloquence or earthly wisdom that I came, announcing to you that which God had commanded me to bear witness to.

2:2 For I determined to be utterly ignorant, when among you, of everything except of Jesus Christ, and of Him as having been crucified.

2:3 And so far as I myself was concerned, I came to you in conscious feebleness and in fear and in deep anxiety.

2:4 And my language and the Message that I proclaimed were not adorned with persuasive words of earthly wisdom, but depended upon truths which the Spirit taught and mightily carried home;

2:5 so that your trust might rest not on the wisdom of man but on the power of God.

2:6 Yet when we are among mature believers we do speak words of wisdom; a wisdom not belonging, however, to the present age nor to the leaders of the present age who are soon to pass away.

2:7 But in dealing with truths hitherto kept secret we speak of God's wisdom--that hidden wisdom which, before the world began, God pre-destined, so that it should result in glory to us;

2:8 a wisdom which not one of the leaders of the present age possesses, for if they had possessed it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory.

2:9 But--to use the words of Scripture--we speak of eye has not seen nor ear heard, and which have never entered the heart of man: God has in readiness for them that love Him.

2:10 For us, however, God has drawn aside the veil through the teaching of the Spirit; for the Spirit searches everything, including the depths of the divine nature.

2:11 For, among human beings, who knows a man's inner thoughts except the man's own spirit within him? In the same way, also, only God's Spirit is acquainted with God's inner thoughts.

2:12 But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which comes forth from God, that we may know the blessings that have been so freely given to us by God.

2:13 Of these we speak--not in language which man's wisdom teaches us, but in that which the Spirit teaches--adapting, as we do, spiritual words to spiritual truths.

2:14 The unspiritual man rejects the things of the Spirit of God, and cannot attain to the knowledge of them, because they are spiritually judged.

2:15 But the spiritual man judges of everything, although he is himself judged by no one.

2:16 For mind of the Lord, and will instruct Him?> But *we* have the mind of Christ.

333

#17
August 21, 2009, 02:30:44 PM

WillieH:
Good stuff !!

QuoteJESUS noted the NEW COVENANT which IS ETERNAL and set IN THE SPIRITUAL, ...which superceded the OLD COVENANT which was (obviously) TEMPORAL and set IN THE NATURAL... How's THAT for some ..."CONTEXT"! 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Beloved Servent: This is exactly it.  Jesus said the scriptures testified of Him.  At that time the only scriptures that were in existance were the old testament.  And even the high priests and the pharisee's and scribes etc.  did not through studying them all their lives see the life which was prophecied in them.  They did not reconize the Lord at all.  Even though every word that was prophecied about Him was in the Old testament.  Because they were "natural". They were reading the "letter".  But God is Spirit and all things must be discerned by the Spirit. But many still "read" the bible and discern the "letter" of it. Even the New Testament.  They cannot see things in the spirit through natural eyes. No matter how many times the bible is read. Including the New Testament.  Only the Holy Spirit can open up the spiritual layer of the written word. Not man's wisdom or understanding.  It always amazes me when that one thing I have read dozens of times is all of a sudden opened up to me and revelation is given on it.  Never before seeing it.  Not until the Holy Spirit decides to reveal it.  It is awesome!!

Quote2:4 And my language and the Message that I proclaimed were not adorned with persuasive words of earthly wisdom, but depended upon truths which the Spirit taught and mightily carried home;

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Cardinal

#18
August 21, 2009, 06:26:37 PM
 :cloud9: Amen 333........it never ceases to amaze me, either. It IS awesome. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

HartleyDamboiseII

#19
August 21, 2009, 06:35:06 PM
People, This is only My thinking.
New Haven and New Earth. i.e. All things, earth/all things made from atoms of God's making, man, plant, rock, air, space, and all other things you can list.

First thing is not to think of Revelation as the last book in the bible, because Cor, goes much further into the future than any book of Revelation.

If you want a comprehensive study in that book, look up J.P. Eby at Sigler Ministries.
Now as to the here and now/ after life.
The promise was that The Anointing would DO certain things, and He Has Done Those Things...

2009 years ago the father raised His Son out of death, and Finished all Death, since then all things have been in life, all made alive in Christ. There is no more sin, the only sin is the sin that you make of your own Law Making and the following of those Laws and the braking of those self-made laws. We are LIVING IN CHRIST'S THOUSAND YEAR REIGNS NOW. It started when death was destroyed 2009 years ago.

Revelation of God ( Matt. 16:18 "upon") is the New System of things, When all things come to an understanding that a higher power controls things, "They" start there own quest to understand.

God is like this to me in the physical things,  in all things there are atoms, in all things there are 2 things, sold and space, but there is an unseen third thing, energy. This energy is in everything. In every corner of the known universe and beyond. This energy is connected like a thought process in a brain. His Brain.

There is a process going on that will bring a close to the reign of Jesus "His" Christ, When all will be IN all. When all things are dragged to the understanding that God IS and God IS Love. Then We will be Home in Him and what goes on after All is, together again is HIS concern. After life? there can never be an afterlife because the use of the word says that life has to end, and life IN God never ends. What God does with His life/us, is His design.

Summery, All sin is ended at the cross, only self-reinforced-delusions i.e.  Law/sin/death.
Everyone will come to love God somehow-somewhere in "time", When time ends, there will only be God/us.

The new heavens and earth is NOW. Since life was given to all things when His Son Did It For Us whether or not we want to except that death was destroyed so long ago.

Lee Damboise II
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