The mis-translation as "eternal" and John 3:16

[MVincent]

Hi,

are we really going to re-write and re-learn the most famous verse in the bible?

How do you guys handle that?

Thanks,

Mike

[ded2daworld]

Strange, I always thought of that verse as a UR verse and not needing re-wording or re-translating.
Who does God Love? The world.
Does "the world" include all people? yes it does.
Does this verse say anything about a requirement for believing before one dies? No it doesn't.
Can death or the grave seperate us from the love of God? It cannot.
If only those that believe in this lifetime are saved, what about the very young, the mentally disturbed, those that have not heard, the mentally retarded, etc? Does God love them? Yes he does.
If Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, and he did, and only 5% to 10% are "saved" then either 1.)Satan is stronger than God (with a 90 to 95% win ratio, 2.) God does NOT love 95% of all humanity and is a sadistic psychotic. 3.) God loves the world and gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him(before or after death) will not perish but have everlasting (aeonian, age enduring) Life.
It's one of the 3 above. "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, must be true"
Since 1 and 2 above are impossible... :Chinscratch: 

[Lazarus Short]

Are we going to be ultra-consistent and say that God will resurrect us only to age-long life?  No, I just consider it a by-product of limited concepts - did concepts like "zero," "infinity," and "eternity" really exist back then?  We should not assume that all the intellectual accoutrements of modern life existed way back then.  Thinking was simpler, more direct, more earthy.  Just as an example, when the New Testament was written, mathematics, even just what we call arithmetic, was a very arcane subject.

[ded2daworld]

I hear ya on Math Laz. I had absolutely no problem with it until they started putting the alphabet in it. 1962, I think... :laugh:

[MVincent]

Hmmm.  I think I hear what you're saying.

Nope, its gone.  I'll try again ....

Actually, you've re-worded it when you said:

"God loves the world and gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him(before or after death) will not perish but have everlasting (aeonian, age enduring) Life. "

or at least added some explanations based on your theology.

What did early Christians understand by age enduring life?  What am I supposed to understand by it?  Life for the rest of the age?  The rest of my life?

Changing thoughts after so long is damned hard! And that I don't do languages well doesn't help.

Thanks,

Mike

[ded2daworld]

Since death cannot seperate us from the love of God and scripture cannot contradict itself I'm saying that you are assuming the verse requires acceptance of Christ before death and it says no such thing. ET people have assumed it is there because their theology requires it. In essence, their assumptions of ET have caused them not to mistranslate but to misinterpret to fit their theology.
Concerning the word Eternal. The word aeonian means age lasting. "Eternal" is the word they have substituted for aeonian. According to scripture there is only one that is eternal, "To Him alone who is eternal." Since God alone is eternal, we will not have "eternal" life. Aeonian life is an long but indefinite time. God is the first and the last, the only, the eternal one. We weren't there before God and though we will live a long, long, time, we will never outlive God.

[Lazarus Short]

I hear ya on Math Laz. I had absolutely no problem with it until they started putting the alphabet in it. 1962, I think... :laugh:

You mean "X" & "Y"?

Stop looking for your X.
She's gone, and there's no use asking Y. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[marie glen]

Hi,

are we really going to re-write and re-learn the most famous verse in the bible?

How do you guys handle that?

Thanks,

Mike

hi! :smile: That's the biggest problem! (I think..)

Non UR'rs think the message is everyone saved without necessarily believing in Jesus. This isn't true! :smile: I think most of us think the Lake of Fire is temporary..  Age - during.. I'll never forget the 1st time I tried to look up the word "everlasting". Was no where to be found. (It was ever lasting/age lasting.)

But personally, i don't think any humans will be in the LOF, b'cause there's a 2nd resurrection. I mean why bother? (With resurrecting the unsaved?) There's really only one verse which perhaps sounds like belief must come before death and that's when Jesus told the pharisees, if they did not repent, they would die in their sins. Well, the 2nd resurrection is not half so joyful, etc as the 1st,but takes a while to catch up.
- But following it, is a long day of the examination of all things and it's only at the end of that long 'day', the notorious words "those not believing will go to the 2nd death" (how does one get written in the Book of Life? By believing.) After all have experienced being resurrected and have witnessed a very long day of the review of all mankind (and angel) history, who's not going to believe??

As far as the false prophet (teaching) and the (world) beast being thrown "alive" (active) into the LOF, those two are not persons. :smile: Our God is Perfect. Perfection makes no mistakes. Loses none.

Colossians 1:20 - "and through him God was pleased, to reconcile to himself, aLL things, whether on earth, or in heaven, by making peace, through the blood of his cross."

[marie glen]

I hear ya on Math Laz. I had absolutely no problem with it until they started putting the alphabet in it. 1962, I think... :laugh:

  :laughing7: Is that when they started doing that? They totally lost me with all that!

You mean "X" & "Y"?

Stop looking for your X.
She's gone, and there's no use asking Y. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

:rolllol:

..and yes to Ded! God alone is Life!