The Biblical Logic of Christian Universalism

[rjohnson741]

STATEMENT 1---God loves all people and desires the salvation of all people(1Timothy 2:3-4 Arminian theology).

STATEMENT 2---God is all-powerful and will accomplish all of His desires(Isaiah 55:11 Calvinist theology).

Both of these statements are Biblically true. Since God desires the salvation of all people, and God has the power to accomplish His desire or will, is it too much to believe He will accomplish the salvation of all people? If God does not accomplish His desire to save all people, which statement is in error, STATEMENT 1 or STATEMENT 2? Calvinists say STATEMENT 1 is in error, and Arminians say STATEMENT 2 is in error. But if we accept STATEMENT 1 as the Arminians do, and we accept STATEMENT 2 as the Calvinist do, then we can conclude that all people will be eventually saved. In other words, isn't the combination of STATEMENT 1(Arminian theology) and STATEMENT 2(Calvinist theology) Christian Universalism?
The key is the Arminians are right about God's love for all people, and the Calvinists are right about God's power and God's sovereignty in salvation. The tragedy is both Arminians and Calvinists believe all people are not saved(eternal torment/eternal punishment), which forces them to reject or explain away the glorious Biblical statement of each others theology.
But if the Calvinists embraced STATEMENT 1(Arminian theology), and the Arminians embraced STATEMENT 2(Calvinist theology), there would be nothing to reject or explain away. The greatest theological controversy and division(Arminianism versus Calvinism) in the body of Christ would soon vanish, the body of Christ would truly be united, and the world would soon know Jesus Christ is Lord(John 17:21; John 13:34-35).

By combining statements 1 and 2, the body of Christ could then harmonize the scriptures of God's wrath, judgment, and condemnation upon all, with the scriptures of God's love, grace, and mercy upon all. All this could happen if Christian Universalism was an acceptable view in the church.

[eaglesway]

Holy smokes! That smacks of common sense and the simple wisdom of God- two sides of one coin to purchase the goods. It cannot be stood for I tell you, it is not subject to man's reason! It must be ONE WAY or THE OTHER!

:o)

[Warhawk17]

There are also plenty of people, who I think are the most ridiculous of them all, that will say that both of those statements are true yet still advocates eternal torment. Those are the type of people who are impossible to argue with.

[ded2daworld]

Right Warhawk. :thumbsup:
If undeniable bible verses and logic can't convince someone, they are still in darkness,
trusting and believing the word of man over the word of God. :Peace2:

[Warhawk17]

I've heard people call that the "mystery card" meaning that they will accept both those statements as true, however still believe in eternal torment. They will typically say that God is impossible to understand, and we just have to believe them without questioning. Someone even told me that we are saved because God chose us, yet we are damned because we chose to reject God, not because He chose us for damnation. He went on to say that it doesn't make sense, and it shouldn't because God's language is far more mysterious than our own. I went with it for a while until I finally realized the truth.

[eaglesway]

There are also plenty of people, who I think are the most ridiculous of them all, that will say that both of those statements are true yet still advocates eternal torment. Those are the type of people who are impossible to argue with.

Many of those people are held captive by fear of going to hell themselves, having been long programmed to believe that if they hold "any other gospel" they too will go to "hell".

2Co 4:1-7  Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart,  but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;

2Co 10:3-5  For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


Could it be that sometimes if they do not hear, it is because we are not "weaponized" in the spirit to tear down these strongholds and tear the veil? I wonder.

2Ti 2:24-26  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;    And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The most powerful spiritual weapons we have, as I see it, are prayer, patience, gentleness, meekness and the love to reach through and touch someones heart with the good news that Jesus is Lord of all and will gather all to Himself, and that eternal torment is a diabolical lie that defiles the gospel.

[OneThing]

There are also plenty of people, who I think are the most ridiculous of them all, that will say that both of those statements are true yet still advocates eternal torment. Those are the type of people who are impossible to argue with.

Many of those people are held captive by fear of going to hell themselves, having been long programmed to believe that if they hold "any other gospel" they too will go to "hell".

2Co 4:1-7  Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart,  but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;

2Co 10:3-5  For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


Could it be that sometimes if they do not hear, it is because we are not "weaponized" in the spirit to tear down these strongholds and tear the veil? I wonder.

2Ti 2:24-26  And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,  In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;    And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The most powerful spiritual weapons we have, as I see it, are prayer, patience, gentleness, meekness and the love to reach through and touch someones heart with the good news that Jesus is Lord of all and will gather all to Himself, and that eternal torment is a diabolical lie that defiles the gospel.

Hi eaglesway... I saw you on online and knew that if I waited long enough, I would get to see your reply...I so appreciate those of you who truly focus on the positive... for me in a way it's like saying focus on the Person: Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior...

May God's peace, mercy, joy, grace, love continue to shine (direct) your conversation (walk, talk, etc.) - anna274 aka seekfirst, goodreport, watch/pray, and now OneThing...   (one thing needful=sit at His feet and HEAR His word)

I've printed your reply so that I will be daily reminded to be effectively "weaponized"...

[eaglesway]

Hi One Thing/Anna :o)

I would bet you have read some of Andrew Murrays writings. He frequently presented his teachigs on various foundations of Christian character(forgiveness, humility, prayerfulness, etc) in the terms "the one thing needful".

[OneThing]

Hi One Thing/Anna :o)

I would bet you have read some of Andrew Murrays writings. He frequently presented his teachigs on various foundations of Christian character(forgiveness, humility, prayerfulness, etc) in the terms "the one thing needful".

and you would lose the bet!!!!  BTW, how much were you willing to bet????  I know very little about Andrew Murray, although I did find a quote or two by him and had decided at that time to search for more of his Biblical insights... just never took the time to do that.

[eaglesway]

Well, if you get a chance sometime to browze Andrew Murray, you might enjoy it :o)

[ded2daworld]

He bees one of my favoritists (Andy Murray) authors
His collected works are available on Kindle for (I think)1.99
some stuff is free some 99 cents etc.

[eaglesway]

When I was a young minister of the gospel, his story and his writings(among others of course) were invaluable to me. They kept me rooted and grounded in love because I, as with many young ministers, was full of zeal and self-righteousness and not a little selfish ambition. Murray, Bounds, Meyer, I could go on and on- the testimonies of those who hav gone before like treasure unbounded waiting for those who follow after :o)

[OneThing]

When I was a young minister of the gospel, his story and his writings(among others of course) were invaluable to me. They kept me rooted and grounded in love because I, as with many young ministers, was full of zeal and self-righteousness and not a little selfish ambition. Murray, Bounds, Meyer, I could go on and on- the testimonies of those who hav gone before like treasure unbounded waiting for those who follow after :o)

Yes, I agree "treasures unbounded"... we are surrounded/encompassed about with so  great a cloud of witnesses ... and God has used such a variety of witnesses to bless us, love us, teach us, etc., that we may grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ, Lord and Savior of all men.

[eaglesway]

amen

[Lazarus Short]

I've heard people call that the "mystery card" meaning that they will accept both those statements as true, however still believe in eternal torment. They will typically say that God is impossible to understand, and we just have to believe them without questioning. Someone even told me that we are saved because God chose us, yet we are damned because we chose to reject God, not because He chose us for damnation. He went on to say that it doesn't make sense, and it shouldn't because God's language is far more mysterious than our own. I went with it for a while until I finally realized the truth.

These people are talking about the same God who said, come, let us reason together.