So I would assume that we all agree the Bible states that Jesus is Gods word, in the beginning He was with God & other scriptures clearly state that He is.
My question I've been pondering is why, when it states that Jesus is Gods word, do people say the bible is Gods word? I haven't really decided myself if it can be both or one or the other, but I guess I lean more towards the thoughts that Jesus is the true word & the Bible, while a wonderful book inspired by God, is not TRULY (?) Gods word since it has changed & can be subjected to error & such.
I'm still pondering but I love reading all of your insights & thoughts on things. So what do you all think?
This is a copy of an earlier reply to this question;
I don't think we have the perfect translation. Here's how I've come to understand it; God has given us just what we have at present, for His own good reasons. Also, that God has protected His Word, within all the things we have at our disposal (different translations, oldest manuscripts, etc). It's in there, with His help, wisdom, discernment; the Holy Spirit leading, translating, interpreting - confirming or leading in a little different direction - His Word(s) can be "searched out" of what we have been given. God does not lie, and one of the things that confirms the above view for me is, He said He'd preserve His Word for us; He also said it's His prerogative to hide a matter, but to our benefit to search out a matter Proverbs 25:2. I do believe some translations are improving, but still it seems good to check several different ones at times.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness 2 Tim. 3:16
The belief presented here is that Jesus became the revealed Word in flesh, but His doing so did not negate the logos, which scripture states is forever settled in the heavens. In my understanding (and I've had some very intense dealings from God regarding His Word) there's the Word (thought/intent of God), the spoken Word, the written Word, and Jesus the Word revealed and come in the flesh - not one or the other.
IMO, there can be a misunderstanding between the written Word, the spoken Word, and the fact that Jesus revealed the Word in flesh.
John 6:63 Jesus said ".....the Words I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life".
John 1:1 Christ is the living Word of God.
Here's evidence that written and/or spoken, is the Word of God - John 14:23 JESUS (THE WORD) SAID, "if a man love me he will keep my Words" [The Word, speaking of His Words]
Matthew 4:4 "It is written man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God". [spoken/written] God said the Holy Spirit breathed His words to the holy men of old, which were then recorded for us.
John 15:3 Again, JESUS (THE WORD) SAID, "Now you are clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you". [Word, speaking the Word.]
Proverbs 13:13 Whoso is despising the Word is destroyed for it, and whoso is fearing the Command is repaid.
Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
Shortly after God revealed UR to me, I was tempted to adopt what seemed to be a popular opinion on TM at the time, that Jesus ALONE was the Word, and that the written Word was suspect, unreliable, and not inspired. God dealt with me swiftly, deeply, and painfully that I was to not go in that direction, and was to maintain a belief [and stance] that His written Word is just that - His Word. Yes, Jesus is the Word -become flesh. But God also has written Word and spoken/revealed Word. They operate in tandem. They don't exclude or diminish each other, and I don't believe I should either.
I later inquired (again) of God about this topic. He immediately let me know He had already let me know. I went to the written Word. These scriptures are from perhaps the most literal English translation available, The Christian Bible (1991).
I John 2:7 The Law is called the Word that was heard
2:8 Then again, I am writing a new Word to you that is true in Him.
:14 I have written to you...and God's Word is staying in you
Mathew 13:18-22 Jesus talks about the Word about the Kingdom, in the parable of the sower - Vs. 22; "Now the one among the thorns into which the seed was planted, this is the person who hears the Word, but the concerns of this age and enticement or riches stifle the Word, and it beomes unfruitful.
Mt. 15:3 "Why do you step beyond the boundaries of God's Direction because of your tradition? ...now you have invalidated God's Word because or your tradition." (IMO, this isn't talking about Jesus per se, or "only". It's talking about God's directions [words bearing His expectations and intent] to us.
Jesus/Yesu said Rev. 3:8 You have kept my Word and you haven't disowned my name ("Yesu")
John 1:14 The Word became flesh
John 8:31 Then Yesu was saying..."if you stay in My Word, you are truly my students"
37 "you are seeking to kill 1) Me, for My 2) Word has no room in you"
[separate,distinct mentions of the things the Word is] John 17:6,8 "I made your Name apparent...they have kept Your Word. Now they have come to know that everything that You have given to Me, is from You, because they have kept the Declarations that you gave me, I have given to them, and they accepted them, and truly knew that came out from You..."
"Well seen! I too watch over My Word to see it fulfilled" (Jer. 1:11-12).
Now Master, take notice of their threats, and grant it to Your slaves to be continually speaking Your Word with all boldness, while You stretch out Your hand for healing and signs and miracles to occur through the name of Your pure Servant Boy Yesu". Acts 4:29,30, The Christian Bible (1991)
Somthing I've thought of; I'm not sure why I would quote a scripture to attempt to show a spiritual point, if I didn't believe the Bible (accurately translated, Spirit-revealed) was reliable and the Word of God. Yet many seem to do that very thing (most often on other sites than TM). Which to me, tends to leave me a little flat.. :2c:
Quote from: jabcat on August 16, 2014, 12:18:39 AM
Somthing I've thought of; I'm not sure why I would quote a scripture to attempt to show a spiritual point, if I didn't believe the Bible (accurately translated, Spirit-revealed) was reliable and the Word of God. Yet many seem to do that very thing (most often on other sites than TM). Which to me, tends to leave me a little flat.. :2c:
Thank you for your answers & I appreciate the response. I will pray on it & allow God to help me work through my inquiries :)
You're welcome. Yes, please do that. Several years later, God (in His mercy) still hasn't let me away from this;
"Shortly after God revealed UR to me, I was tempted to adopt what seemed to be a popular opinion on TM at the time, that Jesus ALONE was the Word, and that the written Word was suspect, unreliable, and not inspired. God dealt with me swiftly, deeply, and painfully that I was to not go in that direction, and was to maintain a belief [and stance] that His written Word is just that - His Word. Yes, Jesus is the Word -become flesh. But God also has written Word and spoken/revealed Word. They operate in tandem. They don't exclude or diminish each other, and I don't believe I should either.
I later inquired (again) of God about this topic. He immediately let me know He had already let me know. I went to the written Word. These scriptures are from perhaps the most literal English translation available, The Christian Bible (1991).
I John 2:7 The Law is called the Word that was heard
2:8 Then again, I am writing a new Word to you that is true in Him.
:14 I have written to you...and God's Word is staying in you"
Blessings. I enjoy your posts.
Your post actually reminded me of how I say tell people when discussing God & his dealings with revealing truth that He can use many ways & all things He reveals are truth despite how he decides to reveal it. So I think I may be uncovering my answer lol 😁
Quote from: jabcat on August 16, 2014, 12:18:39 AM
Somthing I've thought of; I'm not sure why I would quote a scripture to attempt to show a spiritual point, if I didn't believe the Bible (accurately translated, Spirit-revealed) was reliable and the Word of God. Yet many seem to do that very thing (most often on other sites than TM). Which to me, tends to leave me a little flat.. :2c:
Sort of leaves it all up in the air. If the Word isnt reliable, then who do we rely on? Some would say, "the Spirit". But they often seem so sure that they have the SPirit and whoever disagrees with them doesnt ;o)
That's why the Word is the sword of the Spirit. Weapons for the right hand and the left. In spirit and truth. The scriptures are, according to Peter- written by holy men moved by the Spirit. According to the writer of Hebrews, "oracles". According to Paul, "God-breathed".
Perhaps this is why Jesus so often replied, "It is written".
For me the word of God is something the Father said. If what He said is correctly recorded that's the word of God.
That 'recording' can come in many forms.
- Written down in a Book.
- Tape recording of God speaking.
- A God inspired song.
- A God inspired movie.
- A God inspired man. Prime example obviously is Jesus.
- Etc
In my opinion, the Sacred Record is the God's Truth filtered into human words given through humans and is comprehended according to the understanding of the reader - a reader cannot understand what it is not possible to understand.
That understanding may change slightly or dramatically, and that change is according to the release of the Spirit within, and so does its verity released by the Spirit correlate to the individual's understanding. What was once suitable for an unprogressed soul may no longer be suitable and something else is stirred by God deep within that fires the individual to seek higher and more noble truths.
Again in my opinion, humans may tend to require the hard husk of the letter for security because the spiritual kernel which is beyond human words is too bright and cannot at present receive focus.
PEACE.
I agree with that LP. I just want to add that not understanding something doesn't make that 'word' less 'word'.
Assuming no corruptions the writings of, for example, Daniel's words are just as perfect as the teachings of Jesus or even words directly spoken by Father Himself. Rating 'something coming from God' with levels of trustworthiness/truth is just another way of saying the rest isn't really perfect. It's like saying only the red letter parts of the Bible are 100% trustworthy, but beware of Paul because he's wrong 20% of the time. Peter scores even worse at 35%.
:2c:
The Myth of "The Bible"
Gary Amirault
http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/myth.htm
Almost always when I read the bible, I get spiritual food.
It points to Jesus, who is risen and reins. The reigning of Jesus is the ultimate motive of the the Word.
Pail said the grievous wolves would come into the church after his departure. The main mode of the grievous wolf is the Word. That is why we must know the Word to a certain extent.
There are those who make their sectarian interpretation of the Bible the reigning lord.
The Good news is that we don't have to bow down to anyones interpretation because we have the Spirit that is given to us, and the reign of Jesus Christ is established forever!
What that entails is how we dispute doctrine.
.
Quote from: rrich7 on August 15, 2014, 11:45:51 PM
My question I've been pondering is why, when it states that Jesus is Gods word, do people say the bible is Gods word? I haven't really decided myself if it can be both or one or the other, but I guess I lean more towards the thoughts that Jesus is the true word & the Bible, while a wonderful book inspired by God, is not TRULY (?) Gods word since it has changed & can be subjected to error & such.
I'm still pondering but I love reading all of your insights & thoughts on things. So what do you all think?
In my opinion, it is because people wrongly assume that
1. the word of God is a book, or set of books,
rather than correctly understanding that
2. those set of books contain, among other things, God's word.
There is a world of difference between one and two.
It is also wrongly assumed that anyone who does not believe that the Scriptures or the 1st century writings are rightly called 'the word of God' must not believe those writings to be inspired of God, or having any value to a believer.
One example that I hear a lot that shows how one automatically reads 'bible' into the text when they see the phrase 'word of God' is in Hebrews 4, which refers to the 'word of God' being sharper than any two edged sword. The assumption is that the writer is referring to physical books of the bible. The very next verse tells us that the 'word of God' is 'he' before whom all things are manifest, all things being open before 'his' eyes. The word of God spoken of here is not a set of books, but the High Priest, Yeshua himself.
In Yeshua's own words, the books that he himself called 'scripture' (never did he call them the word of God) point to him, serving as a witness testifying and leading to him.
Ronen
The kingdom of God is like treasure hidden in a field, which when a man found, he went and sold all he had and bought the field.
Jesus spoke in parables, mysteries hidden from the foundation of the world.
Some people think it is God's responsibility to force feed the Word to people and they take that responsibility upon themselves as a sort of "holy mission", beating people over the head with what they think are obvious points- never having thirsted themselves for the mysteries.
The Spirit flows wherever there is a channel carved out by hunger and humility, thirst and gratitude. The Spirit illuminates the scriptures and opens the mysteries within the revelation of Jesus Christ. There is a two edged sword coming out of Jesus mouth by the Spirit, the word of God, and it cuts to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, bone and marrow.
The scriptures are so much higher than any other writing, but only when illuminated by the Spirit, and only when they divide asunder soul and spirit- making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Not so much so, imo, when being used to dispute doctrines in the letter.
Whenever they are truly illuminated they reveal Jesus as the "light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ", and lead the way into our transformation into the same image. Anyone who minimizes the scriptures hasnt yet bought the field where the treasure is hidden. Anyone who walks in the letter is devoid of the Spirit and a veil covers their eyes so that the word is not illuminated when they read it.
Its a narrow way that leads to life. Few there be that find it.
indeed......the ark of the testimony was veiled with clothes...and not lawful for just
any man to look upon[tell no man/flesh and blood did not reveal this..but the Father]
...the 'word of God come in flesh...is the new spirit..no longer written in stone.....
but in hearts of flesh..that have been 'circumcized' the covering/veil removed...thus
those with Christ cover not their head...but look up at the shekinah light/mercy
that triumphs over the judgement of the law written in stone.[accusor/serpent death
on a pole...o'the way of a serpent on a rock!]
every knee shall bow and every tougne shall confess......with head bowed to the dust
[name written in the dust] and every eye shall see Him coming on the clouds.....
as deliverance draws nigh...and the glory of the Lord shall fill the temple[the salvation
of ALL men is the glory of the Lord]......epistles written by the hand of God in man
even His book of Life.
Aren't God's commandments also called "words"?
oh yes...the thing is..if their written in stone the commands are death..if written
in hearts of flesh they are life....Jesus said 'the commandment was given unto life"
. Jerusalem a burdensome stone=law written in stone bringing death...........
seven eyes are on that stone...and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day=
commandment unto life/mercy..written in hearts of flesh New Jerusalem[Above]
(IMO)
The Word of God can be different than the "words" of God.
Logos means expressed thought. It comes from within the heart and mind of God.
It is written, "Be careful how you hear- to the one who has more shall be given, to the one who has not even that which he has will be taken away."
The logos of God comes from within Him. Some people take the shell of it, the "words" and build idols with them. They lose what they had( a heart relationship with God) and become slaves of the letter/words- they call them doctrines or commandments. There are doctrines and commandments but they must be set within the context of God's love and the mystery of life in Christ Jesus.
Then the doctrines we thought were of immensevalue may become smaller in comparison to the pearl of great price, the love of God displayed in Jesus.
But this in no way reduces the value of the scriptures. It is understanding the heart of God written between the lines that opens the mysteries and they are all witnessed to in the scriptures, once the veil is removed.
Like those geometric patterns where you have to blur your eyes a little to see the 3 dimensional picture stand out from the page(stereograms).
It is within the context of God's heart, His character, His love and His righteousness that the third dimension appears. Jesus, the Logos, the expressed thought of God, the radiance of the Father's glory and exact representation of His image- is the word of God, from within God's heart, and then planted within our hearts as a seed of transformation. Only in the Spirit of Life can the "words" about that process bring healing, comfort, reason and freedom, or in other words, "mean what they were meant to mean and say what they are meant to say to me now".
Whatever He is saying to me now in the Spirit, that is the commandment. It will be witnessed to in the scriptures and among the other witnesses who stand in His presence. And that witness will always produce more revelation of who Jesus is, and impart the reality of Christ in me(the hope of glory).
Quote from: eaglesway on August 16, 2014, 05:08:49 AM
Quote from: jabcat on August 16, 2014, 12:18:39 AM
Somthing I've thought of; I'm not sure why I would quote a scripture to attempt to show a spiritual point, if I didn't believe the Bible (accurately translated, Spirit-revealed) was reliable and the Word of God. Yet many seem to do that very thing (most often on other sites than TM). Which to me, tends to leave me a little flat.. :2c:
Sort of leaves it all up in the air. If the Word isnt reliable, then who do we rely on? Some would say, "the Spirit". But they often seem so sure that they have the SPirit and whoever disagrees with them doesnt ;o)
That's why the Word is the sword of the Spirit. Weapons for the right hand and the left. In spirit and truth. The scriptures are, according to Peter- written by holy men moved by the Spirit. According to the writer of Hebrews, "oracles". According to Paul, "God-breathed".
Perhaps this is why Jesus so often replied, "It is written".
:thumbsup: Amen. We can all have blind spot, but sometimes even the most learned or even those in leadership don't fully understand.
I have been pondering this same question. Here is what I have been "working out"
I don't mean to be controversial but, I am considering something that may not be new to you but, is new to me. You see, after my experience with the Holy Spirit, I became almost obsessed with the Bible. I would spend more time in the Bible (listening to it, reading, memorizing, studying,etc...) than anything else a day...with the possible exception of sleeping.
I memorized chapters, an entire book and was literally religious about it. There was a point when I couldn't play a card game with my wife, without listening to the Bible in the background. I have been in this journey of seeking with all my heart to "abide in Jesus and Him in me".
Then one day, I realized that I had been abiding but, I was also striving to abide. The Bible was becoming a religion to me...How can the Word of God become a religion if "The Word was with God and the Word was God?(John1:1) " I was very close to the point where I was ready to say that we should worship the Bible, because the Bible is God.
We hear that the Bible is the Word of God and I am absolutely convinced that it is. So If John 1:1 is correct (which it is) and the idea that the Bible is the Word of God is completely true than the Bible is God and worthy of worship. But, I believe that there is something very basic and true that we have neglected to consider...
Is the Bible the complete Word of God?
Clearly, I am not asking if the Bible is the complete scripture...It is.
I am also not asking if the Bible is all completely inerrant and the authorized Word of God... It is.
I am asking if the Bible contains every Word of God every spoken, if the Bible contains Jesus (The Word) or does Jesus (The Word) contain the Bible?
Think about this before casting stones at me :) ...prayerfully consider this...
Jesus was the Word of God. Jesus also spoke the Word of God, wouldn't everything that the Word said also be the Word of God? Wouldn't every word that Jesus spoke be considered the Word of God? I think yes. (maybe not before his anointing but, that's another story)
If this is the case, we have to recognize that not every word Jesus spoke is recorded in the Word of God. We know from John that Jesus did and said a lot more than recorded. The last verse in John's Gospel ,John 21:25, says "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written."Wouldn't these things also be part of The Word of God?
Consider that in the Bible, when Jeremiah and other prophets declared the Word of God, it often says "and the Word of God came to Jeremiah..." Yet these prophets had very limited knowledge of what was coming. They "knew in part and prophesied in part." It is almost as if they " For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known."
I have heard that verse used to defend the idea that the Gifts of the Spirit ceased when we received the full Bible but, I think that is inaccurate. Can anyone say that the "see Jesus face to face and know Him fully.." when the read the Bible?
The word of God came to the prophets and yet, they understand less of God's plan then we do now. It seems to me that they only knew a part of the word of God. Imagine, if they took that part and based their entire existence on it and never recognized the need to continue to listen for God to guide them apart from the written word that God had given them ....Have we done that? Was that God's intention for us? And what about the Christians that lived before the Bible was translated into English... The Believers who had little or no access to any written Scriptures?
The Bible has a very real, powerful role in our lives. But, we must remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees; " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."
The Bible is supposed to teach us about Jesus, not replace our relationship with God. I believe that the Bible does not contain Jesus (The Word) but, Jesus contains the Bible.
The Bible can be an idol, even as the law was to Israel. In each case, the absence of the spirit meant excess and error.
Quote from: gregoryfl on August 16, 2014, 05:41:20 PM
Quote from: rrich7 on August 15, 2014, 11:45:51 PM
My question I've been pondering is why, when it states that Jesus is Gods word, do people say the bible is Gods word? I haven't really decided myself if it can be both or one or the other, but I guess I lean more towards the thoughts that Jesus is the true word & the Bible, while a wonderful book inspired by God, is not TRULY (?) Gods word since it has changed & can be subjected to error & such.
I'm still pondering but I love reading all of your insights & thoughts on things. So what do you all think?
In my opinion, it is because people wrongly assume that
1. the word of God is a book, or set of books,
rather than correctly understanding that
2. those set of books contain, among other things, God's word.
There is a world of difference between one and two.
I think it's a matter of definition.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said to the woman, surely, you shall not die,
Obviously the red words are a direct contradiction of what God said. So looking at it that way not everything in the Bible is God's word.
Moses wrote Genesis. Although Moses never personally witnessed the above verse, what he wrote is 100% accurate because he was inspired.
He didn't write his own flawed words, but the perfect ones of God. From that pov Gen 3:4 are God's words to.
So perhaps the correct view is: "The whole Bible is the word of God; but not all of it is the opinion, will, desire of God"
Quote from: GraceUponGrace on October 12, 2014, 04:10:57 AM
I am asking if the Bible contains every Word of God every spoken, if the Bible contains Jesus (The Word) or does Jesus (The Word) contain the Bible?
I'm sure the bible is not the complete word of God. I'm sure Jesus said far more wise things (talking about quantity, not quality) that those few NT verses.
Take for example the verse that states that Jesus only spoke in parables to the public. For me it implies that He explained the parables to a select few when not in public. How many parables are explained in the Bible?
Quote from: GraceUponGrace on Today at 03:10:57I memorized chapters, an entire book and was literally religious about it. There was a point when I couldn't play a card game with my wife, without listening to the Bible in the background. I have been in this journey of seeking with all my heart to "abide in Jesus and Him in me".
No matter how I phrase this it will sound like don't take the Bible too seriously. However, that's not what I mean....
Suppose you watch a comedy. You just hang back in the couch and let waves of fun roll over you. Then you experience, the intention the writer, director and actors had in mind. But If you start looking a stuff like she's wearing $43.66 shoes. That actor's is 1 ounce overweight. And that part defies all science. Well then you drown in details and at the end of the show you have had none of the intended laughs.
Same for the laws in the Bible. Imo they were and still are, very good. But if the only thing you do with them is analyzing them, then like the comedy you no longer see the big picture.
Memorizing chapters, it's not what's it about. It's about memorizing the wisdom of the chapters.
So on one hand you should take God very seriously. He's the big authority and in control of stuff. He's the King we should bow for.
But He is ALSO (even more imo) a Father who just wants to be a friend. A buddy to play cards and tell jokes. Someone who teaches you to ride a bike and catches you when you fall. Many people seem zoom in to much on the King-God and by that totally forget about the Father-God part.
If God had to chose 1 title for Himself and do away the other. What would He pick?
a] King-God
b] Father-God
Without thinking a seconds I would say b.
There is a goal and a method.
There is goal and a law.
There is goal and correction.
The goal is the ultimate aim. The second part is always good and perfect, but not the goal itself.
I agree with Whitewings and Eaglesway here. Although I may sound hypocritical, since I do have a love for analyzing words (for restorative purposes), but too many believers have more of a relationship with their leather bound book than they do with the author of it.
It is like someone you love writing you love letters when they are away from you for a time. You rightly cherish their every word, and keep them in a special place to read again and again. But when your loved one comes back and you are together again, instead of being with her, you continue to stick just to the love letters. No, the love letters are merely a witness of what you are meant to experience with your loved one in relationship.
The scriptures are the same. THEY ARE NEVER CALLED THE WORD OF GOD. They are usually referred to as the scripture, or the holy writings, but never the word of God. The word of God is the message of the good news in the context of what the disciples shared, and ultimately, of course, it is Yeshua himself, a person, not a book with writing in it.
As Whitewings said, they contain his words yes, but they also contain the words of man, of ha'satan, etc. Ultimately they bear witness to the relationship humanity is meant to have, the love relationship, with him, and how that comes about.
Quote from: rrich7 on August 15, 2014, 11:45:51 PM
So I would assume that we all agree the Bible states that Jesus is Gods word, in the beginning He was with God & other scriptures clearly state that He is.
My question I've been pondering is why, when it states that Jesus is Gods word, do people say the bible is Gods word? I haven't really decided myself if it can be both or one or the other, but I guess I lean more towards the thoughts that Jesus is the true word & the Bible, while a wonderful book inspired by God, is not TRULY (?) Gods word since it has changed & can be subjected to error & such.
I'm still pondering but I love reading all of your insights & thoughts on things. So what do you all think?
I think Christ is the expression of God audibly and visually. He is the word of God and the image of the invisible God. He is the word of God through whom time, space, and matter came into existence, and he is the word become flesh that ministered to his people and died for the sins of the whole world. I also think scripture is the word of God because it is the inspired written visual expression of God which is also audible when read aloud as I have shown with the videos I produced. http://www.youtube.com/user/concordantpublishing The written word of God tells the whole story of creation, including the audible teachings of the word of God become flesh, from the beginning to the end of the eons which was all manifested by the spirit of God through the word of God. So I think it's a false assumption to say the word of God is either or while it's actually all of the above.
Quote from: gregoryfl on October 12, 2014, 03:52:45 PM
I agree with Whitewings and Eaglesway here. Although I may sound hypocritical, since I do have a love for analyzing words (for restorative purposes),
Not hypocritical at all. WISE!
Without understanding the words we don't understand the message God is giving. And without a message the relationship with Him is much harder.
QuoteIt is like someone you love writing you love letters when they are away from you for a time. You rightly cherish their every word, and keep them in a special place to read again and again. But when your loved one comes back and you are together again, instead of being with her, you continue to stick just to the love letters. No, the love letters are merely a witness of what you are meant to experience with your loved one in relationship.
Exactly. Your letters are a way/method that leads to the goal (God).
Therefore, your method is good.
Simply put, every method that makes the user of that method find God is a good method. While often very entertaining the method isn't the goal. As soon the method becomes the goal, it has morphed into an idol.
Great thread.
I had a revelation one day while I was riding my bicycle and praying. I ride a bicycle and pray a lot. The bicycle is my mode of transportation and now whenever I get on it I anticipate spirituality.........................Part of my daily spiritual practice.
Anyways, I was praying and said, "Lord Jesus..........."
I heard, "I am not your Lord, your doctrines are your Lord".
This was very profound to me. I was like you......memorizing scripture and continuing in them constantly. The Bible started to get deeper and the Spirit spoke through it, teaching me the word of God. I was healed by it of much, self hate, and learned the love of God through it............the love of God was shed abroad in my heart.
My doctrines were my lord though. I thought I knew God through my doctrine. The Spirit said I did not. So yes, there is a deeper word then our doctrine and scriptural understanding. There is a relationship that is the very life of God, that transcends doctrine in the person of Jesus Christ, who reigns supreme.
.
Wow ,
all I can say is wow !!
I know its the Spirit of God moving in this forum , just know it!! but cannot ask me how , because it is by faith and you just cannot explain faith to no one
I am reminded of Jesus Words telling us , and for me Jesus words are a True witness
when you look at the written Word , Yes it can be an idol to those mind sets that are still eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil
But when you read Jesus words and those whom witnes with Him , to me its the choosing the good out of it , making it the SPOKEN WORD , HEAR MY SON , HEAR HIM !
and the reason I say spoken word is because of the eyes to see and ears to hear what the Spirit of truth is saying in the bible
so many of the sayings Jesus told us , start out with scribes , Pharisees and hypocrites and of course the lawyers , those whom are looking for ''loopholes '' to bring about exceptions to the laws written in stone and for records etc .
and when we can finally get to the Tree of Life in those perfect and true by the Holy Spirit giving us a heart to understand what the Spirit is saying we are HEALED ! made whole and complete in Christ
Perfect Love is what heals and makes us breathe the LIVING WORD , to me that is no idol , but actually having a perfect and complete relationship with the FATHER though the Son
I cannot deny either in the working together as ONE , MAKING US ONE SPIRIT/as FAITH IN HIM
we are gathered one by one to His own Will and desire , this work and labor of Love is the perfect and its without sin , yes the evil is found in the tree of knowledge of good and evil , we see the evil as not the Word of GOD as you all were saying this can become an idol , not being what He says
But I see this as the beginning of a new and Living way that in the end holds no evil in it and like John Eagles way says forgiveness
where the evil and the earthly and sensual and devilish one cannot exist in
who is without sin , to me its always been those born from above and are made perfect though the things they suffered that being the wrong and taking the wrong and not holding it against anyone , Jesus proved this fact in Hebrews chapters 2 and 5 , He was our example of how to be made perfect , He was without sin , meaning He never ever did anything but give LIFE to those who asked it and was given the entrance to the Kingdom or the tree of Life access ,and had passed from judgments to Life , but to those whom sins remained in death holding them [for me its those whom have not forgiven and are still needing to be forgiven by repentance and confession , this is shame but its a good humbling way to be ] those would find Jesus was the gift of grace given to us from the Father
Jesus tasted death for every man and those whom death come would not taste it ,, till they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of Glory to their shame
would be last to enter with hyssop after the fires of cleansing and purifying all the dross and evil was removed , to be made whiter than snow by the scrubbing of the fullers soap Psalms 51
6Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom. 7Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. 8Make me to hear joy and gladness, Let the bones which You have broken rejoice.
Hyssop is also used symbolically in the Bible. When the Israelites marked their doorposts with lamb's blood in order for the angel of death to pass over them, God instructed them to use a bunch of hyssop as a "paintbrush" (Exodus 12:22). This was probably because hyssop was sturdy and could withstand the brushing, but it also likely signified that God was marking His people as "pure" and not targets of the judgment God was about to deal out to the Egyptians.
David also mentions hyssop in Psalm 51:7: "Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow." David does not refer to physical cleansing—rather, he is asking God to cleanse him spiritually as he confesses his sin.
for me there has been a lot more to it , a lot of process and changes made by the work of God to His glory , when we are healed and also made new