Paul Washer's Shocking Message

[Jerm]

Has anyone else ever heard of this man?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8

[gregoryfl]

Yes, I have listened to a couple of his messages.

[NinjaWizards777]

I think he has a heart for God and a heart to see people saved...but he seems a little too judgmental and dramatic to me personally.

Maybe im just not a fan of "fire and brimstone" preaching

[IceDash]

what he saying? I am hard of hearing, sorry, just wanna know what he saying? :bgdance:

[firstborn888]

Yes, I've listened to his stuff. It's just the logical conclusion of the ET belief system. You beg and plead and cry and pray that people will listen to you and avoid this horrible eternal torture chamber. This is what it reduces the 'good news' too.

[fire walker]

Never seen this Paul Washer, never heard him preaching, shouting, screaching, moaning, complaining or groaning and I know nothing about him,  Except from the little I have heard ABOUT him he sounds like he is in the same camp as preacher Hagee and all those caught up in the Judeo-Christian Zionist trap, a camp where their is found little to rejoice about, where the good news gospel of Christ is presented as bad news, and the hope of the ressurection to life is presented to be only for a few of all mankind and always found in their camp,
everybody else outside their beliefs and doctrines are animals doomed to some fiery fabled hell for all of eternity.

If you have heard one preacher from this camp you have pretty well heard them all.
The term Judeo-Christian itself is an oxymoron, it would be the same oxymoron
if there was a group of folks who called themselves Islamo- Christians. Judaism is not Christianity because it denies Jesus the Messiah, they are still waiting for a physical saviour. Islam denies Jesus was the one who came to bring Salvation to all men, Jesus is a great prophet in their teachings and nothing more.

All three religions do profess trust in God however, and all three pretty much agree up to and including Abraham beyond that they agree
somewhat in part up to and including Moses beyond that viewpoints begin to disagree, too many literalists, legalists and huxters in all the  religions  and basicly have, including much of christianity, turned to corporate religion at the cost of losing a simplicity of faith, hope and love that comes revealed by the spirit and not by man.

Peace,
Fire Walker

[CHB]

Hi All,

Something I wonder about? When will the majority of these preachers come to understand the truth? Will God teach them personally (John 6:45)  (Jer. 31:34), is this much farther in the future? I know a few are shown the truth now but not many. I imagine there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

CHB

[Dallas]

I have one question for all those still preaching the message of a never-ending time of torment...

Why are we so thankful and quick to call someone great who is the one soley responsible for the need to be saved. For if God didnt create "hell" then they wouldn't even need to be saved!

That's like a hostage situation were the man releases some one and they are thankful and worship the gunman for being such a good guy! If there is no gunman there is no danger!

If God never made hell then we would never need to be saved!!

Jeeze, thanks God for saving me from You!?

[CHB]

I have one question for all those still preaching the message of a never-ending time of torment...

Why are we so thankful and quick to call someone great who is the one soley responsible for the need to be saved. For if God didnt create "hell" then they wouldn't even need to be saved!

That's like a hostage situation were the man releases some one and they are thankful and worship the gunman for being such a good guy! If there is no gunman there is no danger!

If God never made hell then we would never need to be saved!!

Jeeze, thanks God for saving me from You!?

Hi Dallas,

Now that was a good one.  :goodpost: :goodone:

CHB

[ScarletWren]

In all fairness to many in the ET camp, they are taught that God created hell to punish Satan who was this perfect angel who revolted against God in an attempt to divert some or all of His glory to himself.  I was told that hell is now the place that humans go to when they freely choose to reject the offer of salvation proferred by Christ, that God does not send them there, that they CHOOSE to go there rather than submit to God.  That God does not want to send anyone there but will not go against their free will to decide and you only have this lifetime to choose.   Of course there were always gray areas where the mentally ill and babies were not held to this standard and then there was the age of accountability which was drawn from purely 'fairness' standards and no one could nail it down specifically, it seemed to depend on the intellect of the individual and his capacity to understand what was deemed sin in his life.

Once this lie gets into our brains, it's difficult to get out of it.  For we do see much wrath and judgment exhibited in the Old Testament and in Revelation.  We view scriptures from that perspective even when we read verses that seem to say the opposite.  I know I would have some real difficult times with Paul's epistles at times.

But to those who've had their eyes opened, yeah, it makes no sense at all to ask for our love and obedience by threatening us with an eternal burning.

[Dallas]

Scarletwren;

It's actually quite rediculous to think God would even give us the choice.

I have a 9 year-old daughter. I'm 32, so that means she has roughly 1/3 of my life and understanding. And I will NOT allow her to make desicions that are contray to her wellness.

Yet God, who has infinite wisdom and infinite love and understanding and forebarence is going to allow me within in 1/1000000000000000000000000000000000000 to infinity to choose my eternal exsistance?

So me in my limited understabnding and wisdom through love won't allow my daughter to choose whether she can skip a bath or clean her room think that God would allow me without understanding to choose eternal things?

That's rediculous!!! Absurd!

[Taffy]

Has anyone else ever heard of this man?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8

No :icon_flower:

[jabcat]

In all fairness to many in the ET camp, they are taught that God created hell to punish Satan who was this perfect angel who revolted against God in an attempt to divert some or all of His glory to himself.  I was told that hell is now the place that humans go to when they freely choose to reject the offer of salvation proferred by Christ, that God does not send them there, that they CHOOSE to go there rather than submit to God.  That God does not want to send anyone there but will not go against their free will to decide and you only have this lifetime to choose.   

I agree, that can be problematic...If God's the Lake of Fire, yet the Lake of Fire was created for "the devil and his angels", and then the disobedient are going there too...takes some thinking, studying, and revealing....

Here's another thought many use/misuse to teach a fear of falling into "Hell"...I believe it has to do more with the first resurrection and escaping the "punishment of stripes/Lake of Fire" correction, but I can see that without a 'bigger picture", "Hell" could enter the picture...

Hebrews 3:12 You must be continually looking out, brothers and sistesr, so that there won't be at any time in any of you a wicked, unbelieving heart, in withdrawing from the living God!    14  For we have become partners in the Anointed One, that is , if we hold firmly to the title-deed [the faith] that we had at the beginning, as our course even to the Completion..15....you must not harden your hearts as in the rebellion!   Chapter 4:1  ....we should be fearful that at some time anyone of you might seem to be falling behind and in need.

[WhiteWings]

In all fairness to many in the ET camp, they are taught that God created hell to punish Satan who was this perfect angel who revolted against God in an attempt to divert some or all of His glory to himself.

For me this argument can be ok when speaking about, say, a king. But not when speaking about all knowing God.
Before He created anything (angels, hell, us) He knew where it would lead to.
So God can't (and I'm sure doesn't) claim He was caught by suprise.
God isn't partial. I don't see that only applying to humans.  Angels are also His creation/children.
So basicly my feeling is that there is or isn't an eternal punishment for both human and angel.

:dontknow:

[sparrow]

Scarletwren;

It's actually quite rediculous to think God would even give us the choice.

I have a 9 year-old daughter. I'm 32, so that means she has roughly 1/3 of my life and understanding. And I will NOT allow her to make desicions that are contray to her wellness.

Yet God, who has infinite wisdom and infinite love and understanding and forebarence is going to allow me within in 1/1000000000000000000000000000000000000 to infinity to choose my eternal exsistance?

So me in my limited understabnding and wisdom through love won't allow my daughter to choose whether she can skip a bath or clean her room think that God would allow me without understanding to choose eternal things?

That's rediculous!!! Absurd!

exactly!

[Tony N]

I have one question for all those still preaching the message of a never-ending time of torment...

Why are we so thankful and quick to call someone great who is the one soley responsible for the need to be saved. For if God didnt create "hell" then they wouldn't even need to be saved!

That's like a hostage situation were the man releases some one and they are thankful and worship the gunman for being such a good guy! If there is no gunman there is no danger!

If God never made hell then we would never need to be saved!!

Jeeze, thanks God for saving me from You!?

I'm not sure I follow what you said here:

If God never made hell then we would never need to be saved!!

We would still need to be saved from sin and death even if there were no he11.
But maybe I misunderstood your post? If so, sorry. It's morning and no coffee yet.  :icon_flower:

[Sarah]

The whole idea that God created hell for the devil and we choose to go there is maddening. According to mainstream Christianity I imagine the scene in God's mind 'talking to Himself' before the 'fall of satan'.

God 1: I will make this perfect angel to be in charge of music.

God 2: Oh Wait. He will get prideful and pull away half of my angels.

God 1: Oh well...

God 1: I will make a place of unending torment and torture for those angels.

God 2:Now I will make a man in my image.

God 1:Wait, I don't want a robot, but a man that will choose Me.

God 2: I know, I'll pull this sinning angel out of hell and have him tempt man.

God 1: Oh wait! Man chooses the evil.

God 2: Hmmmm. I suppose I could torture him forever with the devil.

God 1: Oh wait, now all mankind will be in hell.

God 2: I will send my Son to die in payment to myself so I can put them in heaven.

God 1: Oh wait, most men will reject my son and end up in hell anyway.

God 2: Oh well.....

And God said, "let there be light!"

[Tony N]

Sarah, I enjoyed it immensely!

[Nathan]

The whole idea that God created hell for the devil and we choose to go there is maddening. According to mainstream Christianity I imagine the scene in God's mind 'talking to Himself' before the 'fall of satan'.

God 1: I will make this perfect angel to be in charge of music.

God 2: Oh Wait. He will get prideful and pull away half of my angels.

God 1: Oh well...

God 1: I will make a place of unending torment and torture for those angels.

God 2:Now I will make a man in my image.

God 1:Wait, I don't want a robot, but a man that will choose Me.

God 2: I know, I'll pull this sinning angel out of hell and have him tempt man.

God 1: Oh wait! Man chooses the evil.

God 2: Hmmmm. I suppose I could torture him forever with the devil.

God 1: Oh wait, now all mankind will be in hell.

God 2: I will send my Son to die in payment to myself so I can put them in heaven.

God 1: Oh wait, most men will reject my son and end up in hell anyway.

God 2: Oh well.....

And God said, "let there be light!"

I don't see any issues with this revelation . . . isn't this exactly how it went down??? :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:

[Nathan]

wouldn't also fall right in with "And God breathed life into the man and said to himself . .. oops . . .I can do better than that . . .put man back to sleep . .took out a Rib . .and . . .well . . .the rest is history.

[CHB]

wouldn't also fall right in with "And God breathed life into the man and said to himself . .. oops . . .I can do better than that . . .put man back to sleep . .took out a Rib . .and . . .well . . .the rest is history.

God created man and rested. Since God created woman, neither God nor man has rested.  :laughing7:  Just kidding.

CHB

[jabcat]

wouldn't also fall right in with "And God breathed life into the man and said to himself . .. oops . . .I can do better than that . . .put man back to sleep . .took out a Rib . .and . . .well . . .the rest is history.

God created man and rested. Since God created woman, neither God nor man has rested.  :laughing7:  Just kidding.

CHB

:LH:  I'm married...and have a daughter.

[peacemaker]

The perfect man and woman, just read and click continue ...

http://www.flashfunpages.com/couple.swf

... and enjoy!

peacemaker

[jabcat]

Ha!  Cute... :thumbsup:    I was thinking...I think my wife actually gets more rest than I do...what do you think that means?

[reFORMer]

I listened to Paul Washer only so long.  Maybe I'll get back to it.  He's institutionally a Baptist.  This is part of his personal sense of approval, his relied on self-justification.  This is one thing of which Jesus warned us.  I know from experience it is rather difficult for someone in the midst of such an approval system to recognize it diverging in any way from God's approval.  But the question can be asked:  "In just what way can you point specifically to God's own commendation or ratification of what you are saying?"  Many proceed without such a question being asked much less answered, just proceeding on unexamined presumptions.  This is important for any serious Christian to spend time in prayer about.  Jesus asked, "How can you believe who receive honor from one another and not the honor that comes from God alone?"

Another point of significant warning that should immediately appear to anyone watching him.  It should be laid to heart.  Let it grieve you and make you to ask about yourself earnestly before God.  Paul Washer does seem sincere.  It is hard to humble yourself and realize you are not protected from believing lies by being honest and sincere.  Sincerity is the mask of deception.  You can be honestly wrong.  Jesus says, "Those who kill you will think they are doing God a service."  What you can seek for is truth.  Jesus called His own self the Truth.  It is in His name that The Holy Spirit, Who is called "The Spirit of Truth," is sent to us of the Father.

Remember, Washer has the same Bible which God used to wake most of us up.  Washer could actually do some labor in the word to deserve honor from fellow saints.  He could work with a concordance, look some stuff up on the web and see for himself if he's up to answering a position other than his own.  He cold test what he thinks he knows in the Word rather than compliment himself for self-generated passions not according to the truth.  Although the whole man is blessed by the flowing of the anointing, many confuse internally consistent emotions with the anointing.  This is coming back to my first point again.

A lot of people are going to set the rest of the world right at any cost.  Some of them are Christians who don't know Jesus.  You can search out on youtube Moslem Jihadists to watch.  Sincere and honest, passionate and with all their heart committed to mass murder in the name of their God.  If we can cast the beam out of our own eye maybe we'll be granted to pick the mote out of their collective eye.