The Gospel

[lookingup]

i  recently came upon a website that asked this question:

What was the Gospel (Good News) before Christ came?
The Good News that the church preaches today is based on the life, crucification, and ressurection of Jesus Christ, so what was the Good News preached before then?

i have only been able to discern one aspect of the Gospel preached before Christ showed up on the scene and this is what i have found:

Luke 3:1-6 -
1 Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch  of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene, 2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. 3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins; 4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.



Since John the baptist was quoteing Isaiah  the Gospel in the old testament says that God will save all, but still is there more to the Gospel back then, than what the church today centers on?

Any thoughts, comments, or stearing directions?

[jabcat]

I'm no scholar, but in line with what you say with the Isaiah passage, weren't they to be obedient, while looking forward to the Messiah?  (although generally they didn't understand what He would look like/Who He would be)

[giftsimple]

This is what Peter said the Good News was.

Acts 10

The word which [God] sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)
That word, [I say], ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

[reFORMer]

Romans 2:5-16 (CLV)...
5...the day of...revelation of the just judgment of God,
6 Who will be paying each one in accord with his acts:
7 to those, indeed, who by endurance in good acts are seeking glory and honor and incorruption, life eonian;
8 yet to those of faction and stubborn, indeed, as to the truth, yet persuaded to injustice, indignation and fury,
9 affliction and distress, on every human soul which is effecting evil, both of the Jew first and of the Greek,
10 yet glory and honor and peace to every worker of good, both to the Jew first, and to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God,
12 for whoever sinned without the law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.
13 For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.
14 For whenever they of the nations that have no law, by nature may be doing that which the law demands, these, having no law, are a law to themselves,
15 who are displaying the action of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying together and their reckonings between one another, accusing or defending them,
16 in the day when God will be judging the hidden things of humanity, according to my evangel, through Jesus Christ.

Acts 10:1-4, 34-35 (CLV)...
1 Now a certain man in Caesarea, named Cornelius, a centurion of a squadron called "Italian,"
2 devout and fearing God with his entire house, doing many alms to the people and beseeching God continually,
3 perceived in a vision manifestly, as if about the ninth hour of the day, a messenger of God entering to him and saying to him, "Cornelius!"
4 Now he, looking intently at him, and becoming affrighted, said, "What is it, lord?" Now he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms ascended for a memorial in front of God.

34 Now Peter, opening his mouth, said, "Of a truth I am grasping that God is not partial,
35 but in every nation he who is fearing Him and acting righteously is acceptable to Him.

[martincisneros]

6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. (Galatians 3:6-9)

[jabcat]

I agree...my next question though is "faith in what exactly?".  I think it was God, but also as I said earlier, I also see a "looking for Messiah" thread running through there too...not sure when that started though.  We do know that Jesus was the Lamb slain BEFORE Abraham was born, so He was already in God's mind and ultimate plans even when He was dealing with Abraham.  I'm thinking we really don't know or understand how much of a factor Jesus already was even at that time...would probably make a good study.  I've never seen it before.    I believe there is scripture in the OT that indicates Jesus was actually present at time(s) in the OT? (though probably not recognized at the time)

[martincisneros]

I agree...my next question though is "faith in what exactly?".  I think it was God, but also as I said earlier, I also see a "looking for Messiah" thread running through there too...not sure when that started though.  We do know that Jesus was the Lamb slain BEFORE Abraham was born, so He was already in God's mind and ultimate plans even when He was dealing with Abraham.  I'm thinking we really don't know or understand how much of a factor Jesus already was even at that time...would probably make a good study.  I've never seen it before.    I believe there is scripture in the OT that indicates Jesus was actually present at time(s) in the OT? (though probably not recognized at the time)

What God said to Abraham when that prophetic Word came to Abraham.  Not sure if it's in Genesis or Acts right now, but Abraham is called a prophet in the Bible.  The passage that St. Paul is citing in Galatians 3 is from Genesis 15 where Abraham believed his seed would be as innumerable as the stars of the heavens and the granules of sand at the beach.  Some would be tempted to say that that counts out all other systems but UR, but a Calvinist would still believe Abraham's seed was as innumerable as the stars of heaven and as the granules of sand on earth, particularly if they're a Postmillenialist with even radical leanings towards Absolute Postmillenialism as they get a bit older and more in tune with the anointing on their lives and it's connection to the Written Word. 

Any believer that believes that the number of the ultimately saved is in the multitudes upon multitudes would fit with having believed that particular promise, even if their eyes weren't yet opened to an "each and every" form of Biblical Universalism, unless you'd just want to be really mystical upon no passage of Scripture that's ever been shown to me that there's a star and a granule of sand for everybody that'll ever be born in this world or any other.  With modern Astronomy and modern tools, sciences, techniques, etc., we can likely extrapolate a healthy theory along those lines, but I'm nervous about pulling anything from outside of the Scriptures that's seldom all it ever appears to be and making theological conclusions in the Scriptures from it.

It's really about believing what God tells you, ultimately, that's not in conflict with the Gospel.  If you hear something say to go and kill your son, then very obviously you're supposed to rebuke that and cast it out after the Cross rather than to appear on the evening news 'cause you wanted to guaranty your salvation or theirs, as has unfortunately happened a few times when that spirit of murder spoke up and people with innumerable issues "as the sand of the sea" believed that voice of AntiChrist.  Abraham wasn't really trying to secure the salvation of anyone.  This may not be too theologically correct for some theologians, but he was simply following a promise of God regarding his own household -- which as we know, the ultimate ramifications were a global conquest of sin and the overthrow of death and lack. 

Though it's not recorded for us, it wouldn't be hard to conceive of Abraham having been really put out with God over the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah after he'd prayed and prayed -- but, ultimately, he knew things were really really good between him and God over that boy and that image in his head of seed as innumerable as the granules of sand and the clouds of outer space for virtually perpetual generations.  A lot of Arminians will talk about and print up small books about believing God for household salvation.  They have no idea of how big of a promise of God that that is, or how wide of a topic that that would cover, from a kid coming along where God's promised it, if He has; to the right spouse, if He's promised it.  I really want to say that He doesn't always promise a kid because of the mixed feelings I've had of the subject over the years, where on a certain level yeah that would be great, but all of the bills, tantrums, and feeling cornered with everything you can think of, if other provisions of God didn't go along with that to keep you well supplied. 

But the righteous man's reward that's the subject of another thread elsewhere on this forum messes with my head a little.  Taken as a fulfilled promise over many eons into the all in all world beyond the reign of Christ, and I can sorta see how God would fulfill that to everybody, when you factor in everybody that's ever died prematurely, been a eunuch, or whatever 'cause "of the increase of His Kingdom there shall be no end."  But minimally 1Corinthians 7 comes to mind with the implicit "God's got someone for everyone that would need them to come along."  And then of course, the more orthodox answer is going to be Romans 4:20-25, because the new birth under the New Covenant is the absolute start of everything:

20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

And then Romans 5 continues with contrasting first Adam and last Adam and saying that those that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through Christ Jesus.  Thank you, Lord, for pulling me out of my tunnel vision for a second.  But, ultimately, it does wind up being what I said previously.  It's really about believing what God tells you, ultimately, that's not in conflict with the Gospel.  Because God in His evangelistic methods will tug at the heart strings with something seemingly irrelevant, but is a particular need of the individual and will start pulling them into conformity with His will over that particular thing MANY, MANY TIMES.  Anytime you see something going on in the Body of Christ and it doesn't particularly fit your view of Scripture, just look at the obvious aspect of it that's often overlooked with all of the charges of heresy that get thrown around -- inspite of any apparent dangers "does it of itself set aside the Cross, or is it something that handled correctly might sovereignly be God's dinner bell to a lot of people that wouldn't even hear you with your perspective of the Gospel until God's at least got them in the door??"  If that's the case, then just pass by anything you don't understand FULLY EXPECTING that if it's valid, then God in His own timing will start showing it to you in the Word.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: How about the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ? Blessings...

[aspiring son]

Well the law was brought to Israel to show God as holy, and to make Israel aware of their sin. But I don't think that was necessarily the good news. If you look in the psalms, David's praise and love for God is what blessed him. Reformer and Martin pointed out those who did not have a list of rules to go by, but just the faith in their hearts of a God who created everything they see and know. I know people who have more genuine faith being a sinner then some who go to a church every Sunday. It's not puffed up, it's not poisoned with man made things. Though they don't know much about God, they are honest about it and themselves. I worked with a man who was a former Vietnam vet: hard as nails. He started listening to bible tapes and blessed so many people. We would talk about God, but mainly I would just listen as he shared his awakening. He still cussed, flew off the handle from time to time, but what God showed him was real, and it touched more people than I did who, at the time was thinking of going into seminary: was a worship leader at a bible study; and who people saw reading the bible all the time. I was filled with man made things(and at the time believed in ET). My point is, the gospel is Faith in the unseen creator of the universe. It was before Jesus came into human form, and it is now.

"O God, You are my God, earnestly will I seek You; my inner self thirsts for you, my flesh longs and faints for you, in a dry and weary land where no water is". Psalm 63 1

[martincisneros]

:cloud9: How about the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ? Blessings...

You know I'm 100% in agreement with you, but the original question was sorta...

i  recently came upon a website that asked this question:

What was the Gospel (Good News) before Christ came?
The Good News that the church preaches today is based on the life, crucification, and ressurection of Jesus Christ, so what was the Good News preached before then?

[Beloved Servant]

The Good News of the old and new testaments is exactly the same.

Read Psalm 19.
Read the Song of Songs.
Read Job.
Read the whole thing!

Before Jesus, the mantle of God was upon man.
Now, it's within.

[martincisneros]

The Good News of the old and new testaments is exactly the same.

Read Psalm 19.
Read the Song of Songs.
Read Job.
Read the whole thing!

Before Jesus, the mantle of God was upon man.
Now, it's within.

Amen :Sparkletooth:

[aspiring son]

The Good News of the old and new testaments is exactly the same.

Read Psalm 19.
Read the Song of Songs.
Read Job.
Read the whole thing!

Before Jesus, the mantle of God was upon man.
Now, it's within.

Amen :Sparkletooth:

Yeah; just read Psalm 19. Pretty clear cut. So I second the Amen  :happygrin:

Grace and Peace

[Pierac]

Luke 4:43  but he (Jesus) said to them, "I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the other towns as well; for I was sent for this purpose."

Here lies your answer! The Kingdom of God! Exactly what did Jesus preach?  OK, let's slow down and focus on the scriptures.

Christian documents demonstrate, beyond any argument, that Jesus preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God not only this, he did not initially say anything about his own death and resurrection (Luke 18:31-34).  This must prove conclusively that the message about the Kingdom contains information other than the death and resurrection of the Savior.

Now don't freak out, just follow the path of Jesus' revelation to us!

Jesus proclaimed the Gospel of the Kingdom in the company of the 12 Apostles: "Now after this he made his way through towns and villages preaching and proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom of God. With him were the twelve" (Luke 8:1). Later, "he called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to proclaim the Kingdom of God and to heal" (Luke 9:1-2).

At this stage the disciples had no knowledge of the death and resurrection of Jesus.  This is proved by their subsequent reaction to Jesus's announcement of his impending arrests and crucifixion: Luk 18:31  Then He took the twelve aside and said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and all things which are written through the prophets about the Son of Man will be accomplished. 32 "For He will be handed over to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and mistreated and spit upon, 33 and after they have scourged Him, they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again." 34 But the disciples understood none of these things, and the meaning of this statement was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend the things that were said. 

Even immediately after the resurrection the disciples still did not understand it. And yet they had been preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom in the company of Jesus. "They did not yet
understand the scriptures that he must rise from the dead" (John 20:9). This was after the death and resurrection of Jesus had occurred.

Now if, as it is commonly said, the Gospel consist of information about the death and resurrection of Jesus only, how is it that both Jesus and the twelve proclaimed the Gospel without reference to the Savior's death and resurrection? The answer is clear.  The Gospel of the kingdom was announced before Jesus died (Mark 1:14, 15; Matt. 4:23; 9:35; Luke 4:43; Luke 8:1,etc.) and, as the book of Acts informs us, after the resurrection (Acts 1:3; 1:6; 8:12; 19:8; 20:25; 28:23, 31). Act 1:3  To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

In Acts, however, we find added to the Gospel about the Kingdom, the new facts about the death and resurrection of Jesus, which had now become history. The result is a Gospel message about the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ's (Acts 8:12; 28:23, 31). That Kingdom message remains as the primary component of the Gospel. Jesus' death and resurrection are additional, indispensable subjects for belief.

Acts 1:5-7 also provides a crystal clear testimony against the idea that the Kingdom of God was initiated when Jesus went to sit at the right hand of the Father in heaven.  In Acts 1:5 after Jesus had given a six-week seminar on his favorite subject, the Kingdom (Acts 1:3) the disciples, who had already been preaching the gospel of the Kingdom under Jesus supervision, asked the obvious question.  Hearing that the spirit was to be poured out from heaven, they supposed not unreasonably that the Kingdom of God was going to appear at the same time. They defined the Kingdom has Jesus had taught them. They thought of it as involving the restored tribes of Israel in the land.  "Lord will you yet at this time," they asked, "that you are going to restore the Kingdom to Israel?" (Acts 1:6).

Jesus did not in any way rebuked them for their good question. He simply inform them that the time for the coming of the kingdom would not be known.  The restoration of the Kingdom to Israel is taken for granted.  The time which pass to elapse before the Kingdom comes cannot be known. Note, however, this is central point which settles any question about the Kingdom in relation to the coming of the spirit.  The spirit was to come "in a few days time."  But that Kingdom was to arrive at a time of unknown. This proves obviously that the coming of the spirit at Pentecost is not the same event as the coming of the Kingdom. 

I Think you can take it from here... :wink1:

Pierac

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: How about the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ? Blessings...

You know I'm 100% in agreement with you, but the original question was sorta...

i  recently came upon a website that asked this question:

What was the Gospel (Good News) before Christ came?
The Good News that the church preaches today is based on the life, crucification, and ressurection of Jesus Christ, so what was the Good News preached before then?

:cloud9: roflol......sorry; dropped the ball on that one...... :mblush:

[reFORMer]

I'm going to post the entire text as is recorded in Matthew:

Matthew 19:16-30 (CLV)...
16 And lo! one coming to Him said, "Teacher, what good shall I be doing that I should be having life eonian?"
17 Yet He said to him, "Why are you asking Me concerning good? One is good. Yet if you are wanting to be entering into life, keep the precepts."
18 He is saying to Him, "Which?" Now Jesus said, "These: 'You shall not be murdering.' 'You shall not be committing adultery.' 'You shall not be stealing.' 'You shall not be testifying falsely.'
19 'Be honoring father and mother,' and 'You shall be loving your associate as yourself.'"
20 The youth is saying to Him, "These all I maintain. In what am I still deficient?"
21 Jesus averred to him, "If you are wanting to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and be giving to the poor, and you will be having treasure in the heavens. And hither! Follow Me."
22 Now, hearing this word, the youth came away sorrowing, for he had many acquisitions.
23 Now Jesus said to His disciples, "Verily, I am saying to you that the rich squeamishly will be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.
24 Yet again, I am saying to you that it is easier for a camel to be entering through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to be entering into the kingdom of God."
25 Now, hearing it, the disciples were tremendously astonished, saying, "Who, consequently, can be saved?"
26 Now, looking at them, Jesus said to them, "With men this is impossible, yet with God all is possible."
27 Then, answering, Peter said to Him, "Lo! we leave all and follow Thee. What, consequently, will it be to us?"
28 Yet Jesus said to them, "Verily, I am saying to you, that you who follow Me, in the renascence whenever the Son of Mankind should be seated on the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And everyone who leaves houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or fields, on account of My name, a hundred-fold shall be getting, and shall be enjoying the allotment of life eonian.
30 Yet many of the first shall be last, and the last first.

Jesus didn't say He isn't good, as some have suggested.  He asked a leading question.  He also accepted worship, being the son of El-Elyon and the incarnation of Yahweh.  Often you'll notice how He leads us to come to the conclusion ourselves, that we would have the truth rising within, that we would possess the truth as our own, that we would have the teacher express through us rather than be under a teacher.

In Mt 19:16-30 having "eonian life," (vs.16) and, "entering into life" (vs.17) is "keeping God's precepts;" (vs.17) which, according to what Jesus cited (vss.17-19), means the Ten Commandments.  This precedes what Jesus called, "To be perfect," (vs.21) toward which He says to "sell your possessions and give to the poor," (vs.21) and then to "follow Me." (vs.21)  Jesus says this is a difficult thing for the rich and defined all of it as to "be entering into the kingdom of the heavens," (vs.23) focusing on the realm; and, back to back, as meaning the same thing, to "be entering into the kingdom of God," (vs.24) emphasizing the Ruler of that realm.  The disciples spoke of all this as being, "Saved!" (vs.25)  Then Jesus proceeds to farther unfold the future of this kingdom expressed as judging from thrones of glory with Him in a time called "the renascence" (vs.28) in CLV, "the regeneration" in AV, Hendriksen says, "the restored universe."  It may be the "glorified universe," where outwardly " the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea" (Hab 2:14) and inwardly all is full of the glory of God in manifestation (Ep 4:10). 

It seems there is a past, present and future to "the kingdom" indicated in this passage. (Mt 19:16-30)  I like what Jesus said, "With men this is impossible, yet with God all is possible." (vs.26)  This very much defines the nature of the kingdom's occurence being of grace, God voluntarily acting on our behalf.  It is all about being, "With God!"  Notice He also explains how this is being worked out now, that we leave people and things for His sake and the gospel and we get "a hundred-fold" back, as well as "enjoying the allotment of life eonian," (vs.29) which is explained as knowing God and Jesus Christ Whom He commissions, (cp., Jo 17:3)  It also seems clear to me from this passage that it would be erroneous to say the kingdom is only outward and future.

[martincisneros]

It seems there is a past, present and future to "the kingdom."  I like what Jesus said, "With men this is impossible, yet with God all is possible."  It is all about being, "With God!"

I want to say something along the lines of what I said nearly 11 months ago.  Pray I'll have utterance 'cause it's about time to start pouncing on the subject of time itself, and how the eons are created demensions denoting the spacial boundaries of the Kingdom when considering intergalactic coordinants, and how the different eon statements in the New Testament give spacial demensions as well as time frames.  I don't care if someone else "has it" to share.  That's fine with me.  No need for anyone to cork it around here, within reason of the purposes of the forum.

[Beloved Servant]

When You're the Alpha and Omega — time is irrelevant.