It Ain't Fair -?-

[Lazarus Short]

Big difference in choice and free will.

Big, maybe, but to the issue of UR it may be a red herring.

[eaglesway]

Exactly

[micah7:9]

That is your choice.

[reFORMer]

It was late and I meant to come back (after my previous post on this topic) and point out how the other side of the argument, the extreme Sovereignty of God idea is also defunct, but I forgot.  Well, I'm back now.

The simplicity of it is how unbelievable it is (when you contemplate it) to make God create man and the lake of fire knowing ahead of time what would happen.  Such a God is willfully evil.  To make it worse, to unfairly save some shows He could save all.  The dead-end argument between man's free will vs. Divine Sovereignty is not our only option.  The good aspects on both sides fit into the ultimate salvation of all.

[marcmarc]

Fair doesn't matter where love is concerned.  That's the human part of you speaking.

It's like the prodigal son.  He runs off, has all the fun with the girls (or boys) spends all the money, drinks all the budwieser, then comes home and the dad says "its cool son", hugs him, gives him a new car and the other (human (not spiritual?)) brother freaks out and starts saying "Its not fair! Its not!  He did this, he did that!"

But love doesnt see it that way, to the 'father' both sons are equal, regardless of what they did.  The main thing is both are home and both come to their senses...except perhaps the other jealous brother who still has a LOT to learn...

[VineBranch]

The main thing is both are home and both come to their senses...except perhaps the other jealous brother who still has a LOT to learn...

Both come to their senses except the other one?  HUH?

[marcmarc]

On the free will debate (argument), I'd like to say what I believe.
We do have free will.  Thats why we can oppose God's will in the first place.  If we didn't have free will we couldnt.

If I grab a gun and blow some kids head off, am i doing 'Gods will'?  WIll people say "Oh look at that lovely stand up Christian boy doing Gods work?!"  OR will the (rightly) say "Look at what that devil did (with is free will).  I hope God sorts him out".

mod edit

The way God wins us over is gets us to all eventually to conform to His will.  Why?  To hurt us?  Nope, because we were made in His image and created in love, we can only be satisfied when we 'rest in Him', (when we are home).

We can fight it as long as we like, but eventually love (God) wins over the hardest heart. 

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The main thing is both are home and both come to their senses...except perhaps the other jealous brother who still has a LOT to learn...

Both come to their senses except the other one?  HUH?

{MODERATOR EDIT} trying to explain this to you  I just dont have the time as you seem to have {MODERATOR EDIT}  Let people have their say without arguing with them all the time. {MODERATOR EDIT} im interested in giving 'my' opinion and reading other honest opinions. {MODERATOR EDIT}

[eaglesway]

Marc, I am a different moderator. I want to let you know that I am a proponent of free will myself. You are free to conduct yourself here in the love and wisdom of Christ, regardless of your views. But if you present a continuing need to moderation because you cannot conduct yourself in a civil manner, you will be banned from the site. I say this so you will understand that your view is not the problem here, your attitude is.

[bighunk]

Lol bit heaviy on the editing there!  You would think marcmarc had been saying some really horrible stuff, which he did not!  Tut tut!

[Lazarus Short]

Bighunk, you are only too self-referential.  Contribute to discussions, please, and in a constructive way.  Hopefully I am not using words that are too polysyllabic.