Is Sheol a hole in the ground?

[Jerm]

I'm trying to get a more concise grasp of what Sheol/Hades are exactly.  Is it some kind of spiritual realm where the souls of people go after death, or does it literally mean grave, as in a six foot hole in the ground (or in the case of the ancients, a tomb.)  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jerm

[YoungYuni]

Hiya,

Ever watch "The Never Ending Story?"

Sheol is the Nothing! If you watched "The Never Ending Story", you would know that although it seemed like the Nothing had power and was a place where things that were no more went; however, in the end everything that was, has always been and restored by the faith of One and those who were given a New Name.

Sheol is the place of the unknown.

It is where everything goes that is hidden and appears to be no more.

:bgdance:

Lol, I don't know how well that helped unless you actually watched "The Never Ending Story"

Teehee!

:girlheart: :boyheart:

[martincisneros]

In the book of Revelation it seems to be personified in chapters 6 and 20.  I haven't looked at the Concordance references to see if it can sorta be taken that way elsewhere in Scripture.  Some people would object prematurely to a personified interpretation of them 'cause that sounds too Greek and Roman, but perhaps, if you take a preterist or partial preterist view, then perhaps that's supposed to symbolize them specifically either as persons, a society, or the philosophical and religious ideas that came out of their cultures. 

Some people read it as subterranean chambers and that idea goes a little further back than one would think because there's a really big hole, cave, or whatever under the Temple Mount that some say leads all of the way into Hell.  Perhaps with further studies it could be verified to specifically be a Jerusalem reference in Jewish thought so that whether you're talking Gehenna or Hades it would wind up being about the same thing geographically with Gehenna facing Megiddo and Hades being on/under the temple mount.  I haven't looked into it, but I've been recalling a lot of stuff, recently, that I was taught in my Pre-UR days and have been thinking through UR implications or friendliness in those ideas -- or interesting things to restudy now that I know the Truth.

[Jerm]

Some people read it as subterranean chambers and that idea goes a little further back than one would think because there's a really big hole, cave, or whatever under the Temple Mount that some say leads all of the way into Hell.  Perhaps with further studies it could be verified to specifically be a Jerusalem reference in Jewish thought so that whether you're talking Gehenna or Hades it would wind up being about the same thing geographically with Gehenna facing Megiddo and Hades being on/under the temple mount.  I haven't looked into it, but I've been recalling a lot of stuff, recently, that I was taught in my Pre-UR days and have been thinking through UR implications or friendliness in those ideas -- or interesting things to restudy now that I know the Truth.

The subteranean idea is kinda interesting.  If I recall correctly, in Greek Mythology the Underworld, also know as Hades, was thought of as being underground as well, so that may be where the connection comes from. 

[Paul Hazelwood]

Sheolooks like it might be spiritual.

[Tony N]

I'm trying to get a more concise grasp of what Sheol/Hades are exactly.  Is it some kind of spiritual realm where the souls of people go after death, or does it literally mean grave, as in a six foot hole in the ground (or in the case of the ancients, a tomb.)  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jerm

Hi Jerm,
[H]ades just means "un-seen". When a person is put in the tomb and a stone was rolled over the entrance the dead person was "not seen" any more. They went to the un-seen which is the tomb.
The LXX, which is the Greek version of the Hebrew scriptures, translated the Hebrew word "Sheol" with "[H]ades" so it is one and the same thing.
The KJV often translated sheol as the grave which makes sense since it is where one is interred and no longer seen.

[legoman]

Yep I agree.  From what I have studied it looks like sheol should have been uniformly translated as "grave" or "state of the dead" or "unseen".  Instead it looks like they flipped a coin and translate it as "hell" 31 times, and as "grave" 31 times, and then just for good measure it was translated as "pit" 3 times.

[Chris]

I'm trying to get a more concise grasp of what Sheol/Hades are exactly.  Is it some kind of spiritual realm where the souls of people go after death, or does it literally mean grave, as in a six foot hole in the ground (or in the case of the ancients, a tomb.)  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jerm

HI Jerm!!  :hiya:


If hades/sheol is "the abode of the dead", where do "the dead" live?  :laughing7:

The following is not a direct response to your post but something that I wrote some time back to post elsewhere in response someone else's claim that:

hades/sheol = the grave


-------------------

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1Co 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


If we are to "rightly divide the word of truth" and we are to "compare spiritual things with spiritual" and we are to "look upon those things that are NOT seen" (which are those things which are eternal), then understanding what "death" and "hell" [hades/sheol] are is not as black and white as saying: hades/sheol = the grave.

The physical grave is merely a shadow of a spiritual reality.

Our true grave and the one that we are currently in need of redemption from is "the body of this death" that we are prisoners of.

Paul asked: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom 7:24)

Christ said to the scribes and Pharisees: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto WHITED SEPULCHRES, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within FULL OF DEAD MEN'S BONES, and of all uncleanness. (Mat 23:27)


According to the Bible: "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN SEPULCHRE; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: (Rom 3:12-14)


No wonder scripture says that it is the tongue that is "a world of iniquity, set on fire of hell".


Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have NO LIFE in you. (John 6:53)

Except we partake of His flesh and His blood, we have no life in us, we are "dead" in sin.

We are not to look on the natural, but the spiritual, if we are to "rightly divide the word of truth".


It is true that those in the grave "know nothing" and "cannot praise God" (etc, etc). But we have to look at the spiritual application not the carnal/natural one (Jesus' words are spirit and they are life - John 6:63).

When we see hades/sheol only as "the grave" (after a natural truth) we tend to look at only the natural understanding of these verses and verses like:

Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.


And we fail to see:

John 9:3-5 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the NIGHT cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.


Pro 9:13-18 A foolish woman is clamorous: she is simple, and knoweth nothing. For she sitteth at the door of her house, on a seat in the high places of the city, To call passengers who go right on their ways: Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: and as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him, Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant. But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.


Any guesses as to who the "foolish woman" is and who her "guests" are?


----------------


What I see here goes hand in hand with another (much longer  :happygrin:) study on Pro 15:24.... comparing that which is "above" (LIFE = NOT OF THIS WORLD) to that which is "beneath" (Hell/Sheol... DEATH = OF THIS WORLD).

While I see hades/sheol as "the grave" after a natural application, I see that it is typical of "the body of this death" that is "full of dead men's bones" whose throat is "an open sepulcher".

:2c:

[Taffy]

I'm trying to get a more concise grasp of what Sheol/Hades are exactly.  Is it some kind of spiritual realm where the souls of people go after death, or does it literally mean grave, as in a six foot hole in the ground (or in the case of the ancients, a tomb.)  Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jerm

HI Jerm!!  :hiya:


If hades/sheol is "the abode of the dead", where do "the dead" live?  :laughing7:

The following is not a direct response to your post but something that I wrote some time back to post elsewhere in response someone else's claim that:

hades/sheol = the grave


-------------------

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1Co 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


If we are to "rightly divide the word of truth" and we are to "compare spiritual things with spiritual" and we are to "look upon those things that are NOT seen" (which are those things which are eternal), then understanding what "death" and "hell" [hades/sheol] are is not as black and white as saying: hades/sheol = the grave.

The physical grave is merely a shadow of a spiritual reality.

Our true grave and the one that we are currently in need of redemption from is "the body of this death" that we are prisoners of.

Paul asked: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom 7:24)

Christ said to the scribes and Pharisees: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto WHITED SEPULCHRES, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within FULL OF DEAD MEN'S BONES, and of all uncleanness. (Mat 23:27)


According to the Bible: "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN SEPULCHRE; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: (Rom 3:12-14)


No wonder scripture says that it is the tongue that is "a world of iniquity, set on fire of hell".


Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have NO LIFE in you. (John 6:53)

Except we partake of His flesh and His blood, we have no life in us, we are "dead" in sin.

We are not to look on the natural, but the spiritual, if we are to "rightly divide the word of truth".


It is true that those in the grave "know nothing" and "cannot praise God" (etc, etc). But we have to look at the spiritual application not the carnal/natural one (Jesus' words are spirit and they are life - John 6:63).

When we see hades/sheol only as "the grave" (after a natural truth) we tend to look at only the natural understanding of these verses and verses like:

Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.


And we fail to see:

John 9:3-5 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the NIGHT cometh, when no man can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.


Pro 9:13-18 A foolish woman is clamorous: she is simple, and knoweth nothing. For she sitteth at the door of her house, on a seat in the high places of the city, To call passengers who go right on their ways: Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: and as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him, Stolen waters are sweet, and bread eaten in secret is pleasant. But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.


Any guesses as to who the "foolish woman" is and who her "guests" are?


----------------


What I see here goes hand in hand with another (much longer  :happygrin:) study on Pro 15:24.... comparing that which is "above" (LIFE = NOT OF THIS WORLD) to that which is "beneath" (Hell/Sheol... DEATH = OF THIS WORLD).

While I see hades/sheol as "the grave" after a natural application, I see that it is typical of "the body of this death" that is "full of dead men's bones" whose throat is "an open sepulcher".

:2c:

Hi Stranger ,
Seems that way to me too ... :icon_flower:
Being Dead in their graves , For the Dead Know NOTHING ( That Is after Christ) First the  Natural, then a spiritual Truth

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.


Dead Men are Able to Hear and be resurrected even when alive ...aint That Cool, Even those who remain in Death ( DEAD TO HIM) await their Time For Judgement ,  Judgement FIRST is for the HOUSE of God,

Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

do ya see that Chrissie,,NOW IS  ...NOW IS....NOW IS, WHEN THE dead SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE, the pre-requisite is TO HEAR IT\DO IT

VERILY, VERILY..Kinda means IT, dont ya think?


Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;


Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Now is the DAY of Salvation

2Cr 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now [is] the accepted time; behold, now [is] the day of salvation.)

:icon_flower:

[firstborn888]

Literally it does mean the place where the dead are (in the ground). Metaphorically it means the place where the living live in a state of death (heart of the earth). Buried in the 'ol clay pot. AKA jars of clay.  :thumbsup:

[Taffy]

Yup Byron :icon_flower:

All Dead men SLEEP in the DUST. :icon_flower:

Isa 26:19 Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

[Taffy]

Sheolooks like it might be spiritual.

:icon_flower:

[Nathan]

Chrissie, Chrissie, Chrissie!!!!  Ya left me wanting for more!!! :goodpost: :goodpost:

[Tony N]

This is concerning "the Dead" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[/b]

Hi Tony, My nephew asked me about
1Pet. 4: 6 in that it seems to fly in the face of soul sleep.  Can you give me an
explanation of this verse so I could help him in his discussions with his mainstream
friends.  He is defending the truth that we are reposing when we die, but he, nor I can
explain this verse.  Can you or Dean give some light on this?  I couldn't find anything
written on it besides the commentary, and I have difficulty understanding what A.E.K.
says there.  Thanks, Ted

O.K. Ted, there is a real simple answer to the 1 Peter 4:6 problem concerning "the dead."
Let's look at the context first:

1Pe 4:1-6 Christ, then, having suffered for our sakes in flesh, you also arm yourselves
with the same thought, for he who is suffering in flesh has ceased his sins, (2) 2 by no
means still to spend the rest of his lifetime in the flesh in human desires, but in the will
of God." (3) For sufficient is the time which has passed by to have effected the
intention of the nations, having gone on in wantonness, lusts, debauches, revelries,
drinking bouts, and illicit idolatries, (4) while they are thinking it strange of you not to
race together into the same puddle of profligacy, calumniating you;" (5) who shall be
rendering an account to Him Who is holding Himself in readiness to judge the living and
the dead. (6) For for this an evangel is brought to the dead also, that they may be
judged, indeed, according to men in flesh, yet should be living according to God, in
spirit."

The one who "spends the rest of his lifetime . . . in the will of God" (vs.2) is alive (alive
to God).
The ones who are doing the things of the flesh mentioned in verse 3 and 4 are dead (to
God).
The evangel is brought to those who were dead . . . (to God) in Peter's day. Though they
were alive, they were really "dead to God." Just as Jesus said "let the dead be
entombing the dead" He was saying, let those who are dead (to God) be entombing those
who really are dead. He told the person "Yet you follow Me." If he would have followed
Christ he would have been *alive* to God. Verse 5 above is about the judging of those
who are living (to God) and those who are dead (to God) by their living in the
debaucheries etc. Those who were dead to God, who were also evangelized were running
to the puddle of profilgacy.

The two widows, one living, one dead:
1Ti 5:5 Now one really a widow, and alone, relies on God and is remaining in petitions
and prayers night and day."1Ti 5:6 Yet she who is a prodigal, though living, is dead (to
God)."

Notice the widow who relies on God and remains in petitions and prayers night and day?
She is alive . . . to God.
Now look at the widow who is prodigaling her wealth. She has no need for God. She is
spening freely and foolishly. She, though by all appearances is living, is really dead . . .
to God.

So 1 Peter 4:5 is not about an evangel going to dead people in their tombs or to
disembodied spirits (if there were such a thing) but to people who were alive in Peter's
day but who were dead to God by their deplorable acts of the flesh.

Does this help? I told you it would be simple.

Tony

[Chris]

Thanks Nathan!  :winkgrin: And everyone else who added.  :thumbsup: