Quakers and Universalism

[SeekerOfTruth]

http://flourishingfriends.wordpress.com/2011/03/30/quakers-and-universalism-by-tony-lowe-pastoral-minister-fancy-gap-friends/

"Quakers and Universalism" by Tony Lowe, Pastoral Minister, Fancy Gap Friends
Posted on March 30, 2011

There seems to be a great deal of discussion taking place of late about whether or not early Quakers were universalists. Many modern Friends struggle with or even reject what they perceive to be the exclusive claim of Christianity to be the only valid path to God, and they question whether or not there was something broader and more universal in the message of the early Quakers.

Quakers were universalists in the sense that they believed as Robert Barclay says, "there is an evangelical and saving light and grace in everyone, and the love and mercy of God toward mankind were universal both in the death of his beloved Son the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the manifestation of the light in the heart." Barclay refers to the Light within, the seed of God, or that of God in every person as a universal saving principle. So early Friends were universalists in the sense that they believed there was that of God in each and every person.

They were not, however, universalists in the sense that we use the word today. They did not believe that every religion was a path to God. They in fact did not believe that any religion was a path to God. Fox himself makes the claim that he was called to bring people out of or off of the world's religions and into "a new and living way." And the religion Fox was calling people out of was not Islam or Buddhism, it was actually Christianity as it was being practiced in England by the Catholic church, the Church of England, the Puritans, and a variety of other dissenting groups. Fox found in all of the churches of his day a tendency to rely on the wisdom of the leadership, their traditions, or their own interpretations of the Scriptures rather than Christ himself.

For Fox and the early Friends, the issue was not whether or not a person claimed to be Christian or Muslim, it was whether or not they were "minding the Light", following the leading of the Inward Christ. They understood as we sing in a Quaker children's song "there's a Light that is shining in the Turk and the Jew." They also bore witness that this same Light was in the red man and the black man, and every other person that inhabited the earth, and that if followed, it would lead every man and woman into a vital, living relationship with God. Fox tells a story in his journal about an encounter he had with a Native American man while visiting in North Carolina that confirmed to him that the red man had the same light in his soul as he himself did.

Barclay says that while knowledge of the Scriptures is useful, a person can actually find and follow the Light within without having any outward knowledge of Christ's life, death, or resurrection. The saving power is in the Light itself rather than the name by which it is called. Thus all people can come to know and be known by God, but not by following the teachings or practices of a particular religion. In fact, no matter what the religion, whether it be Islam, Buddhism, or Protestant Christianity, when its precepts are contrary to the guidance of the Christ within, we must follow the Light we have been given. So in that sense while there may indeed be some good in all religions, there is also that which is false and contrary to the Spirit of Christ in all religions that must be resisted. For the early Friends there was only one true religion and that was following the leading of the Christ within. It was both personal in the sense of individual guidance and leading, and at the same time universal in the sense that it was in the heart of every person.

William Penn expressed it this way. "The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious and devout souls everywhere are of one religion. When death takes off the mask, they will know one another though their various liveries make them strangers here

Quakers have an interesting history, yes.

http://www.quakerinfo.com/quakhist.shtml

George Fox is generally called the founder of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers). In the mid-17th century, he was a young man who wandered around England talking with priests, religious scholars and others seeking to find religious meaning. Generally, he found that those to whom he spoke had a lot of intellectual knowledge, but did not seem to really have a true connection with God. His Journal of George Fox reported the following experience he had after several years of this search:

    And when all my hopes in them and all men were gone. . . I heard a voice which said, "There is one, even Christ Jesus, that can speak to thy condition," and when I heard it, my heart did leap for joy.

Later, Fox felt led to climb a "great hill" called Pendle Hill in northern England where he had a vision of "a great people to be gathered." He became an itinerant preacher, telling people they could learn directly from their true Teacher, Jesus Christ. Christ would convict them of their sins and provide them with the possibility of living a life free from sin.

[shawn]

Great post.  There was a time when I searched out different sects of Christianity, because I was looking and longing to be a part of.  I really wanted like minded believers to fellowship with...still do.  I thought that might come if I found the "right kind" of Christianity.  In that search, I found the Quakers.  Nearly everything I read from the Quakers sat well with my heart.  Following the Christ within, revelation through relationship, and love and tolerance towards those who do not see faith like I see faith.

What I don't understand is why they tend to meet only once a month.  We have a couple groups that meet monthly an hour or so from here.

[WhiteWings]

Somewhere on TM is questionary.
It seems I'm a conservative (?) Quaker. :-)

[Molly]

Somewhere on TM is questionary.
It seems I'm a conservative (?) Quaker. :-)

Just about everybody who took that test here came out as Quaker.

[WhiteWings]

Somewhere on TM is questionary.
It seems I'm a conservative (?) Quaker. :-)

Just about everybody who took that test here came out as Quaker.

Yes. But IIRC there are various Quaker sub-denomiations.
I've alsways been a Quaker.
I love their sermons on musli :-0

[lomarah]

Orthodox Quaker. :)

http://selectsmart.com/RELIGION/

[jugghead]

Great post.  There was a time when I searched out different sects of Christianity, because I was looking and longing to be a part of.  I really wanted like minded believers to fellowship with...still do.  I thought that might come if I found the "right kind" of Christianity.  In that search, I found the Quakers.  Nearly everything I read from the Quakers sat well with my heart.  Following the Christ within, revelation through relationship, and love and tolerance towards those who do not see faith like I see faith.

What I don't understand is why they tend to meet only once a month.  We have a couple groups that meet monthly an hour or so from here.

Hey shawn, what I believe was happening in your search through different sects, you were experiencing the verse that states "Christ is here or Christ is there, believe it not" ...... and you didn't.

As for why they only meet once a month, IMO, so their fellowship is not turned into a ritual or just a social gathering.

[redhotmagma]

After Fox died there was a splitting of the quakers.  The mystical and the written.  Many Quakers don't even know what the inner light is.  I have a patient who is one, and I asked him and he looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head.  This is the pattern that happens over and over and over.  People are called out of a religious environment.  Buddha out of Hinduism.  Zoroaster out of basically Hinduism.  Christ out of Judaism.  There are some people that say that Buddha and Zoroaster are Isaac, or one of the Patriarchs.  There are 2 of each, the historic from around 500 BC and the legendary from much longer in the past. One of the reasons they say that it may be one of the Patriarchs is because they were "reformers" of the religions they came from and were monotheists (the other is that so many of the original teachings are the same).  Zoro specifically I know was, but the idolaters (worshippers of the natural/letter/tokogae) came after he died and added back the demons and demi gods and all the other layers of religion.  There are a few zoroastrians that follow the old way.  Buddhism was the same, it was a reform from the idolatry, and now they have their statues, their tokogae's.  Their religious order with monks and lama's.

Christ came in the midst of the religion of religions.  The jews knew how to do religion.  And He came to "reform", no really to transform.  He came and did away with the outward forms.  And what happened?  By 400 the light was turned to darkness, as the dark ages came, and the good news was turned into the torture chamber.  Religion had set in again.  And the tokogae was reintroduced, the crucifix, the churches, the priesthood.

Thats the same thing that happened with the Quakers IMO, and the pentecostals, and the revivals etc.  Stagnancy develops in still water.  There is no life in still water, it will eventually make you sick.  You need a spring, or a river to drink out of.  This is like the Israelites who wanted to build houses in the wilderness.  The Spirit is moving from place to place in this pentecost, wilderness experience. 

BTW I'm not putting Jesus in the same category as Zoro and Buddha.  Abraham, Moses, David all did the same thing.  Look at the outcome of Moses' religious liberation by the time Jesus came on the scene.  There was no life in their lives.  It was all the dead letter.

I'm no expert on Quakers either.  Most of what I know is parroted from a guy on another forum.  And I've only met one quaker my entire life so...

[shawn]

Very interesting post RHM.

[jabcat]

:)  Wishing to find a group with whom I could fellowship, I've been looking into Quakers.  I was interested, but unfortunately, I personally find some of their beliefs not meeting the test of scripture, IMO. 

"not whether or not a person claimed to be Christian or Muslim, it was whether or not they were "minding the Light", following the leading of the Inward Christ...without having any outward knowledge of Christ's life, death, or resurrection. The saving power is in the Light itself rather than the name by which it is called. Thus all people can come to know and be known by God, but not by following the teachings or practices of a particular religion. In fact, no matter what the religion, whether it be Islam, Buddhism, or Protestant Christianity, when its precepts are contrary to the guidance of the Christ within, we must follow the Light we have been given." 

I believe that's false doctrine, too akin to New Age relativism, not the message of salvation brought to the church by the Apostle Paul.  Being a believer in Jesus Christ and Him crucified is more distinct than that.   Also, I in no way believe every person in the world has "the chance" to be saved in this age.  In fact, I believe by far, most will be only be given that knowledge and faith in the next age - when they come face-to-face with the Savior and kneel and confess Him as Lord.

Quakers also don't believe in the original sin.  They believe all are born good, then learn to sin.  Not sure where they get that ("..as in Adam all die.." I Cor. 15).

There are also groups of Quakers that are "gay affirming", i.e., don't see active same sex activity as being sin, and accept them into membership just as anyone else.  *Paul said to not fellowship with professed believers who live in immorality, "don't even eat with them"  (I Cor. 5:11).  (We're all still clay.  Could *that mean, or at least include, accepting it/practicing it repeatedly without repentance?)  Anyway, some Quaker groups are apparently more liberal and some more conservative than others, so some of that may vary.

I'm sure there's more information about them I haven't seen.  That's just a few things I saw when I was looking into them.  There are others, but those things alone would probably keep me from joining one of their fellowships.  I imagine many of them are truly saved and there are many kind wonderful people there, but IMO, it's just not generally scripturally sound enough for my personal taste and spiritual comfort. :2c:

What George Fox said seems quite solid - "telling people they could learn directly from their true Teacher, Jesus Christ. Christ would convict them of their sins and provide them with the possibility of living a life free from sin."  But maybe as rhm said, the Quakers as a whole, as with most (all?) other institutionalized/organized Christian groups. have wandered from their original condition;  and maybe any truly scripturally sound organized fellowships are few and far between?    :upset:

:Peace2:

[jabcat]

:)  Wishing to find a group with whom I could fellowship.... maybe any truly scripturally sound organized fellowships are few and far between?   

Maybe it really is mostly "whenever 2 or 3 are gathered in my name", until He miraculously brings us all together?