I was not prepared

[GerWat]

Must admit I was not prepared for my wife to say, "If it is a free gift it can be refused. If it is forced on you, whether or not you want it, then it is not a gift."

Nothing like discovering new truth to blow up all your current relationships.  Some people are beyond reasoning. 

[Seth]

 :HeartThrob:

I hope it won't blow up your relationship with your wife. I have found that folks can't be convinced about this because it's so deeply engrained. I think they have to have that seed of desire to search for it. One conversation isn't going to do it for most.

There is a huge difference between God "forcing" and God "inspiring" someone to repent. The NT demonstrates that God can use a wide variety at his disposal to inspire repentance and thus the free gift is received. Also, for the time being the gift is free according to election. The Bible states "each to his order (1 cor 15)." So faith has been given to each one according to God's preknowledge, and thus it is a free gift. It will be given also to those of a later order in the same way until the job is done.  :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Must admit I was not prepared for my wife to say, "If it is a free gift it can be refused. If it is forced on you, whether or not you want it, then it is not a gift."

Nothing like discovering new truth to blow up all your current relationships.  Some people are beyond reasoning.

Yes, that is true, but the gift is given(not forced) and in His time you will embrace it's treasure. The Gift [Grace] works when you are brought around to know it's significance, and refusing no longer the option. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

ET theology has always taught that in PHIL 2:9-11

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

All those who had not bowed in this life will be forced to bow in the next just before God pitches them into hell to burnin agony forever.

If God would force such a submission just to make a point, He would be a monster IMO.

I have always seen that verse in the light of John 12:31-33

  Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

If you notice, the two scripture portions fit together in logical perfection. Both declaring the effect of the cross as DRAWING all men unto Jesus Christ. To be drawn is not to be forced. No one will be forced, beyond that which has forced ANY OF US to bow to Him and call upon His name for deliverance from OUR OWN FUTILITY :o)

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

and there it is again- all the enemies reconcile by the blood of the cross, JUST AS IN PHIL 2 AND JN 12- and we were also among the enemies!

The result of His being obedient to the point of death on a cross(for the joy set before Him) is that He is exalted ABOVE ALL.

The result of His being exalted above all(If I be lifted up) is the ALL WILL BE DRAWN- every enemy. To be drawn is to be subjected by the superior argument of love- Christ crucified,

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet."But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

The result of that subjection is RECONCILIATION - even as it was for us.

Eph 1:8 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.


It is all by grace, and each in his own order, Christ, the firstfruits (those who were resurrected at His crucifixion Mt 27:51-54), then the first resurrection saints, then comes the end, when the righteous  of all the ageswill enter in at the Great White Throne
, and the unrighteous will go through purging in the lake of fire until they are subjected(for He must reign until every enemy is made subject), until they have all bowed the knee- at which time death will be done away with, because death only exists where there is separation from God.

Paul tells us plainly that after death is destroyed( the lake of fire is the second, and last, death) God will be ALL IN ALL- no more separation, no more enemies- all reconciled :o)

No man comes to Christ unless the Father draws him. It is the glory of Christ resurrected and ascended that will eventually subject all. It is the beauty of Christ crucified that will eventually win all.

Eph 4:10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.

[Tom]

I think the best thing you can do to witness to your wife, bro, is to be an example of how God's love changes lives. She will be overcome with love.

[Seth]

Beautiful Tom, love it  :dsunny:

If I dragged my children away from an oncoming traffic and my child couldn't see the traffic and resisted my dragging, wouldn't I be giving my child a gift of Grace, for free even if my child resisted at first? The gift is free because I don't charge my kid for saving his rear end from forces he didn't see or understand. I don't sit there and ask nicely if he would like to be saved from being hit by a car.

[Patinak]

Seth, well said!

[Seth]

 :friendstu:

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Beautiful Tom, love it  :dsunny:

If I dragged my children away from an oncoming traffic and my child couldn't see the traffic and resisted my dragging, wouldn't I be giving my child a gift of Grace, for free even if my child resisted at first? The gift is free because I don't charge my kid for saving his rear end from forces he didn't see or understand. I don't sit there and ask nicely if he would like to be saved from being hit by a car.

Perfect Analogy Seth

[CHB]

Beautiful Tom, love it  :dsunny:

If I dragged my children away from an oncoming traffic and my child couldn't see the traffic and resisted my dragging, wouldn't I be giving my child a gift of Grace, for free even if my child resisted at first? The gift is free because I don't charge my kid for saving his rear end from forces he didn't see or understand. I don't sit there and ask nicely if he would like to be saved from being hit by a car.

I tried telling this same thing to a Baptist preacher one time and he said "If I signed a paper saying I wouldn't interfere I couldn't do anything". I said "why would you do such a thing as that"? He was speaking about free will of course.

CHB

[Seth]

LOL. I'd ask him to produce the paper that stated such a thing.

[bushy]

We all think we're stronger than we are. Here's a Johnny Cash song about love.

Six foot six he stood on the ground,
He weighed two hundred and thirty-five pounds,
But I saw that giant of a man brought down to his knees by love.
He was the kind of a man that would gamble on luck,
Look you in the eye and never back up,
But I saw him crying like a little whipped pup because of love.

God is love.Jesus said 'if I am lifted up I will draw all mankind to me'. Roger Tutt's post today is about drawing versus dragging. Dragging is physical force and maybe could be resisted but drawing is from the heart and can't be resisted, especially considering who is doing the drawing.