How would you rewrite the 4 spiritual laws

[GerWat]

How would you rewrite the 4 spiritual laws to reflect UR or ditch the whole idea and do something different yet similar?

I mean, what is salvation?  Is it nothing?  Is it a joining with God to overcome sinful habits and intractable disease?

I mean, repenting of sin and following God in UR is not the same.  Salvation from Hell is off the table but Salvation is still in the NT, isn't it?  There's a lot of stupidity we still need saving from or help with.

I told someone today that, "grace is not forced, it just is, a free gift, whether we pick it up or not, we are covered by the Blood. Being "born again," getting God's help with our sin, having His Spirit in us and hearing Him, all these things are extras that we may also have. Good gifts for those who seek them. We are not so far apart, just disagree about Hell and the need to challenge everyone about their eternal condition. It is enough to offer them a way out of their predicament, soothe their fears and let them know there's power in the Blood. There's no sinner's prayer in the Bible, it's just another tradition of man."

Am I wrong or about right?  Did I miss important details?

Jerry

[anti_nietzsche]

In Orthodoxy Jesus saves us from our sins, not from God's anger as that only lasts for a moment but his grace for a lifetime. We become different people, a new creature in Christ. And all of that is supposed to have us live closer with God. It's also important here to note that sin is not all that God is interested in and a human is also more than his sins (eg, a human is more than his police record). Dwell in God's love and cultivate the relationship. (I'd also remember the modern Jews that are not phariseical anymore and have culturized their sticking to the law of Moses. They also do not stone anyone anymore and focus more on Spirit.)

[darryl]

In Orthodoxy Jesus saves us from our sins, not from God's anger as that only lasts for a moment but his grace for a lifetime. We become different people, a new creature in Christ. And all of that is supposed to have us live closer with God. It's also important here to note that sin is not all that God is interested in and a human is also more than his sins (eg, a human is more than his police record). Dwell in God's love and cultivate the relationship. (I'd also remember the modern Jews that are not phariseical anymore and have culturized their sticking to the law of Moses. They also do not stone anyone anymore and focus more on Spirit.)

:thumbsup:

[Dandelion]

In Orthodoxy Jesus saves us from our sins, not from God's anger as that only lasts for a moment but his grace for a lifetime. We become different people, a new creature in Christ. And all of that is supposed to have us live closer with God. It's also important here to note that sin is not all that God is interested in and a human is also more than his sins (eg, a human is more than his police record). Dwell in God's love and cultivate the relationship. (I'd also remember the modern Jews that are not phariseical anymore and have culturized their sticking to the law of Moses. They also do not stone anyone anymore and focus more on Spirit.)

Beautiful anti-nietzsche!                   :dsunny:

D.

[GerWat]

Wait a sec  :Chinscratch: God's anger???  If you don't think the wrath of God was fully satisfied in Jesus then what's the point of Romans 5:9, "Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!" and probably others.

And what of this quote from: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html#21:
"The consequences of human misconduct, the judgments of God on wickedness, are ascribed to wrath, anger, hatred, to God, but always in a figurative sense; for he who is the same always, and whose nature is love, cannot literally be angry or wrathful."

jerry

[anti_nietzsche]

Yes, fully true, Jerry. God's anger lasts for but a moment, but his grace for a lifetime.

[Dandelion]

 As Christian Universalists, we believe His grace lasts FOREVER.

:cloud9:

D.

[anti_nietzsche]

Of course, Dandelion, of course.

:)

Daniel

[Dandelion]

Sorry....don't mean to be annoying.

D.

[anti_nietzsche]

I meant it positively. I said it twice to try to be nice. Sorry on my part. I'm german.

[rosered]

  2Cor 5
...17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.

The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

19 that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's trespasses against them.

And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation....
Berean Study Bible
Romans 5:10
For if, when we were enemies of God, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life!

Romans 5:11
Not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

1 Corinthians 3:5
What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, as the Lord has assigned to each his role.

1 Corinthians 11:12
For just as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

Ephesians 2:16
and reconciling both of them to God in one body through the cross, by which He extinguished their hostility.

Colossians 1:20
and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross.

Colossians 1:22
But now He has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence--




  You all made me think of these   wonderful truths     :dsunny:

  JESUS  work  on the Cross  was to OPENLY SHOW   all of us ,, to destroy the works of the devil  that  fear and hold of death in  humans   lives ...

  I love the  psalms   30    quote  !!!!   , I have been looking for the   ''song of the Lamb  '' and have  considered   Psalms 30  it , knowing the wrath was on Jesus Christ bearing the sins of the whole world     upon Himself     in that moment    ,  and tasting death for every man .. but  rose up in POWER AND GLORY AND AUTHORITY   , NOW BEING THE LORD OF THE DEAD AND THE LIVING  as both  as   equalling       [ALL ]      of mankind ...


as well as the song of Moses  being  Deut 32    ,  and reading Revelation 15  it is all so very   wonderful   as the son of man being   the SON OF GOD  has been made known  and HIS  SPIRIT IS POURED OUT ON ALL FLESH ...

The Song of Moses and the Lamb
...2And I saw something like a sea of glass mixed with fire,

beside which stood those who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name.

They were holding harps from God, 3and they sang the song of God's servant Moses and of the Lamb:


"Great and wonderful are Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Your ways, O King of the nations!

4Who will not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name?

For You alone are holy.

All nations will come and worship before You, for Your righteous acts have been revealed."...   

Noted it is the Beast and His  image and the number of his name  that  is  Babylon  , that   spiritual pride that  I believe all must be humbled   by   the Holy Spirit   teaching us by hard lessons   and experiencing  them   and  removing those things out of each and everyone of us all 

GOD BLESS

[GerWat]

  2Cor 5
...17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.

The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

19 that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's trespasses against them.

And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation....


"Ministry of reconciliation" as opposed to preaching turn or burn (difference being loving & scaring them?)
So how to proceed with that ministry instead then?  THIS would be the real question then?

jerry

[rosered]

]

  2Cor 5
...17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.

The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!

18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

19 that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men's trespasses against them.

And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation....


"Ministry of reconciliation" as opposed to preaching turn or burn (difference being loving & scaring them?)
So how to proceed with that ministry instead then?  THIS would be the real question then?

jerry

  Hi Jerry  ,
For me the   big difference would be  preaching and teaching LIFE   and knowing  Jesus Christ     in the WORD OF GOD  and leave the  death behind    us .. to me those are the elemental things  spoken about in  Hebrews  6     

I know that we   all need help when the Bible is sealed up to us , I was so excited the  first time I read  in Isaiah   and "felt it  moving "quickening",   the scriptures call it  to our mortal bodies ...
Thrilled  with joy  , this taste made me crave more of  tasting Gods goodness   , I was in the " hell fire and brimstone " church    that preached condemnation .

But it come to me ,  this light of understanding  ONE DAY  , YOU ARE GOD  , YOU CAN SAVE ANYONE ANY WHERE AND AT ANY TIME ...YOU ARE THE GOD OF SALVATION  LORD!  YOU HAVE NO LIMITS  AT ALL ..   This was the start  and not finnished yet , but we are all pressing into it     ..

GOD BLESS

[Dandelion]

I meant it positively. I said it twice to try to be nice. Sorry on my part. I'm german.

I am sorry, again. I tend to get on my soapbox, and definitely get carried away with explaining too much.

Sorry I did not understand what you were trying to say. And, sorry I took so long to write back.

D.  :Peace2: