the cosmic god

[anti_nietzsche]

As we know from science, the universe is very likely infinite. We often speak of the Earth being God's creation, but have you ever considered the universe, the whole cosmos being God's creation? If you open up your scope like this, what else than universal salvation would be in God's interests? The earth-bound God who behaves like earthly kings did and how humans did when they were very evil (when they did not desire and fulfill the betterment of all souls), is not the God of Jesus. The earth-bound God is not the Creator God. So instead of this we must think of a cosmic being when we think of God.

Not just our star, not just the planets of our solar system, have been created by this God, but instead all stars and all cosmic bodies. That lifts us away from the vale of tears that this earth sometimes constitutes. If we believe in a cosmic Creator, then we might also believe in a cosmic salvation. This entire cosmos has an upper floor, the heavenly cosmos. While here on this cosmos we have transcience and pain, in the upper cosmos we will have eternity and togetherness. And because God in Christ has such a cosmic scope, we must also include all microcosmoi.

Ever bee, every fly, every snail, every flower, every dog and every horse and all other creatures are also saved in Christ. That is something the bible did not easily speak about.

The ancients did not know about this, because the Earth was unique and singular for them. So because we all lived on a one flat Earth, we had no cosmic deity as our scope and instead an earthly deity. And the earthly deities were seen like earthly men, functioning mostly out of authority and not love. The opposite pair of authority and love was not acknowledged yet so the bible mixes love and authority, God may be your friend, but first and foremost he is your ruler. But if you open your scope to the entire cosmos then this is rather small and childish. The cosmos is our friend. And God the Creator, or if we might think differently for a moment, God the birther of the cosmos, he is our friend too, our Father like Christ tells us.

Some say that when they look up to the sky with the sun and the moon and the other stars, all their fears vanish and they feel free. I would also like to give you the URL to the jewish singer Ofra Haza and her song, Im Nin Alu:

https://youtu.be/O2xNTzlFSk0

When the doors of the rich close, the doors of God stay open eternally!

[Lazarus Short]

I read somewhere that there are ~100 billion galaxies, each one with millions of stars, and God made them all.  Even so, God is greater than all that.

[Dandelion]

When I was a 12 year old girl, in 8th grade, at my Roman Catholic elementary school in the Bedford Park neighborhood, in Bronx, New York, I was asked to write an essay for our final test, and answer the question, how do we know there is a God? I remember that I wrote a very beautiful paper,
and got an A+ on it. 

Part of the paper was about just this. I described the universe, then I compared the atoms to the galaxies, and explained that the smallest atoms worked on the same principles as the biggest galaxies. With a core, as the star or the nucleus, and how the planets spun around the stars, the same way the electrons spun around the nucleus. I went on to say that there must be a creator who has fashioned these things, and that this was not by chance. I also included other elements of nature and of humanity, to continue my explaination of why there must be a God.

I am still in awe of this. Now, scientists know a lot more about both the galaxies and universe, as well as about atoms and molecules. But, the handprint of God continues to be everywhere.

I always loved theology, and, I guess that is how I landed on this website!   :Book:

D.   

[anti_nietzsche]

Thanks for the many replies. I think if we manage to believe in a cosmic Abba and a cosmic Jesus, we might be able to distinguish God from what has been said about him in the world's religions. The Old Testament is also called the Law of God by Paul, and this Law has been done away with in the sense of being God's lawbook after which everything must be judged. Instead of this lawbook, now Christ and the cross are the new book of God on Earth. And in order to fashion a salvation of souls from law, sin and death, the cross had to come because the Cross is finished and by this provides a more secure fundament for salvation than simple religious faith. We are ultimately not saved by faith but by God's love and by God causing us to love other people and himself back.

If you have faith in God, rejoice, because it will make you strong and healthy. But if you see someone who does not have faith, remember the virtue of mercifulness, just like God himself is merciful. There are people for whom faith in the cosmic God, in their lifetime, is impossible as long as we mean for them to have the same faith as christians have. A muslim or a manitou believer or a hindu or whatever, cannot simply press a button and become a christian. That's why God generally doesn't demand from us to be button pressers. We are saved by something that has already happened, the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If you can press the button, cheers to you, you now know about the love of God. But why can you not be merciful and tolerant to those who press the buttons of other religions or world views?

When I examine my own christianity, then I have parts in me where I put faith in God because of being scared of hell, and where I put faith in God because I was convicted by His love and personality. I am not a loyalist in a society of democrats. I am not following a general into war. I am not the servant of a strict master. Instead I am the child of a God for whom every being is his child. I am a child of God. Martin Luther is a child of God. St Peter is a child of God. Lenin is a child of God. Zeus is a child of God as a spirit being. Krishna is a child of God.

When we speak about Abba we speak less about an ordinary if even the only deity. We speak about the cosmic home and background, a being who is as vast as the entire cosmos itself. When we can acknowledge that in our fearful hearts we are set free. And we can see how other religions also had spiritual experiences with their deities, deities which all have power, personality and intellekt but who cannot look beyond Earth and compare to Abba's vastness. Just like a mountain must be infinitely smaller than the entirety of the whole cosmos, a god like Zeus must be infinitely smaller than the Creator and Birther of the Cosmos. That is why religious fights are all worthless, there is simply no debate. I don't have to say the Trinity is the only God because in the right understanding the Trinity is not even a God, it is too big for the term "God". And that was actually what the Jews were seeing and yet not quite seeing. The statement that the Trinity is the only God doesn't speak out against Zeus, Odin, Krishna etc. It means that nothing is like the Trinity who is cosmic. Is a fly of interest when it comes to an ocean of being, love, truth and power? Zeus is a fly compared to the Trinity. And actually Zeus is a child of God too, just not like a human but like a Spirit Being. This is how we can let other people with other religions be and love them and learn from them too, because their Gods cannot assailt the trinity at all and instead serve the Trinity like we serve the Trinity.

[eaglesway]

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. 4You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 5They are from the world; therefore they speak as from the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God; he who knows God listens to us; he who is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1 John 4)

The law is done away with, but the word of God is not done away with. It is not "mercy" to embrace things that are not true. Jesus was crucified because He told the truth, and His mercy was not given for the purpose of accepting everything as it is. While He loves all, He is subjecting every adversary and His word is a sword that divides asunder truth from error. Jesus said, "If you have seen Me you hav seen the Father" and in Hebrews 1 it says, "He is the "radiance of the Father's glory and exact representation of His being".

He is merciful, and He is also Lord of all. "For He must reign until every adversary is a footstool for His feet".

"Every knee will bow, whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."


But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Anyone who confuses God's mercy with the spirit of deception that rules this world has lost their way.  God created the cosmos through Jesus Christ, the Logos.

"All things were made through Him and there was nothing created without Him."

Zeus and Krishna are false icons, fakirs. If they do exist as spirit beings they have sought to attract worship to themselves and stand as adversaries to the One True God.

Let there be no confusion about this one thing. The salvation of all is through the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and there is no other name given under heaven whereby men are saved.

[anti_nietzsche]

Hello eaglesway,

we accept angels and archangels, seraphs and cherubim, as spirit beings who are subject to God the Father. In the same way I propose Zeus and Krishna are spirit beings subject to God. Because the Father is a kind of deity beyond compare, because he is bigger than the Cosmos he birthed or created. That is why there is no rivalry between him and Zeus or Krishna. In the time of unknowing Jesus the people sought the spirit beings that came to them, among them Zeus and Krishna and many others. I don't believe we have to fight these religions. God the Father and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are not assailed by these small deities. Instead they are all subject to the Trinity and the Trinity is the "God of gods", like it says in the bible too at some places.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: They are demons wanting worship and His glory for themselves. Paul said the idol is not anything but the SPIRIT behind the idol. Whatever does not confess Christ is the Son of God that came in the flesh, is antichrist. The religions that sprang from the worship of these demons do not confess that Christ is the son of God. By this we know that they are not of God, or His Son, because each give glory to the other. Blessings...

PS. Regarding the worship of these demons, a friend of mine unknowingly bought a house where the Indian former owners worshipped Krishna and Kali in there. The furnace man they had come over, was so terrified by what he saw, he refused to set foot in the house again. Even the neighbors were seeing a hooded figure in my friend's yard, the same hooded figure she saw in her hallway, no doubt. We had to go through and cleanse the house of all the demons by taking authority in His name with prayers, and proclaim the blood of the Lamb to get the demons to leave their house so she and her family could sleep at night. These things are no joke, they are deadly serious and not to be messed around with as they open doors into the spirit realm that are not meant to be opened.

[anti_nietzsche]

Cardinal,

the indians have been believing in Krishna and other deities for centuries, and they are themselves aware of demonic beings trying to sneak into their temples, and they have their own exorcisms with which they deal with them. I'm sorry your friend had to live in a house where an indian invited demons, but Krishna himself is no demon and there is no word against him and the indian religions in the bible. I am persuaded that when the bible speaks out against idols, the writers mean evil idols of evil demons, not gods. I know that demons exist and had to battle them sometimes when they assailed me. But actually Krishna and Zeus and other deities helped me against these idols. Krishna is a servant of the almighty God, because almighty God is no God but instead a higher power, the spirit of the infinite cosmos coming to us here on Earth. And Jesus Christ is the child of this higher power, of this spirit. God is what we feel in art and science and music and painting. In love and beauty and goodness and forgiveness. And of that Krishna and Zeus have a lot too.

In my evangelical times I had a dream once where I visited an indian priest in Heaven. I was angry at him and lashed out, accept Jesus, accept Jesus, or I destroy your sanctuary. The priest simply walked away and complained, then he returned and forgave me. The indian gods belong to the divine realms too and play a role in Godfather Yahweh's plan to give us helpers. So I'm not an evangelical anymore and instead acknowledge all gods. A demon is not a god but a malevolent spirit trying to sow discord on Earth because he is so mean and wicked. But even they must be saved, like every tree and animal too.

[jabcat]

Hi Daniel.  It's between you and the Lord if you believe those things, although I think wise instruction has been given already as well. 

However, it's not a "general" view of Tentmaker, I personally don't think it's scripturally sound, and we won't spend a lot more time or room be given for the promoting of such views on the boards.  The thread is very close to being locked unless there's a scripturally sound comment or two to be shared first. I think the scriptures are clear that any other god than YHWH is a false God, anti-Christ, and to be shunned. Thanks.

[anti_nietzsche]

How about scripture calling Yahweh the God of Gods? Or the psalms saying, you are gods, referring even to humans. The term "god" is misleading because the term is too small for Yahweh. How would you call someone who has created this vast infinite cosmos? Is that really just a god or in the end someone else entirely, a category of being whose highness and might we cannot even begin to fathom. That's why I think calling Zeus a god doeesn't take away from Yahweh's truth and glory at all. And there were people in Greece and Rome and the mediterranean who reported spiritual experiences with Zeus. And to use the bible again, the book doesn't even mention Zeus. There are no proscriptions against his religion. Do as you will, but I wanted to give a scriptural argument here. Yahweh is the God of gods.

[Cardinal]

How about scripture calling Yahweh the God of Gods? Or the psalms saying, you are gods, referring even to humans. The term "god" is misleading because the term is too small for Yahweh. How would you call someone who has created this vast infinite cosmos? Is that really just a god or in the end someone else entirely, a category of being whose highness and might we cannot even begin to fathom. That's why I think calling Zeus a god doeesn't take away from Yahweh's truth and glory at all. And there were people in Greece and Rome and the mediterranean who reported spiritual experiences with Zeus. And to use the bible again, the book doesn't even mention Zeus. There are no proscriptions against his religion. Do as you will, but I wanted to give a scriptural argument here. Yahweh is the God of gods.

That phrase doesn't mean there are other real Gods, but rather He is THE real God of all the other made up in men's minds gods. As for the psalmist's words, you have to understand that Mt. Sinai was a wedding ceremony, a making of the two one, as a man and his wife are one.

So since they were made the body to the Head, in that sense when He said the Shema "Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is one God", had they heard it spiritually, they would have heard that they had been joined to Him and via THAT, had become one with God, and so, a "god". When they denied that, they denied themselves and because as a man thinketh in his heart so is he, they ceased to exist for a season.

And in the psalms, His point is not to stress that they are gods, but rather that they die like men and not like gods. How does a God die? No greater love has any man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

The Word doesn't have to mention any of the man made gods by name, but it does mention several, and just because Zeus is not mentioned by name doesn't make him exempt from the prohibition of worshipping other gods. Also, the fact that some of his followers may have reported having spiritual experiences with his worship, doesn't mean that his worship is justified, as Jesus had a spiritual experience with Satan in the wilderness too, but He refused to worship him, and He is our example for how to handle such spiritual experiences. Blessings...

[marie glen]

Amen! Op.. haven't read any further yet..

Tho I may see a point or two a little differently of course, all of us being unique..

I used to think of Gods throne as sort off to the side of the universe, then I began to see His Throne as being the center.. and around which all the cosmos revolves.. (so what does it mean His throne is coming to the earth?)

This centerness of Him, to me, for one thing reveals - does God guess at anything? Of course not.. As though a partial 'salvation' could be the best He could come up with (rofl!)

No, He IS intelligence. He mind, His attribute is knowing. Knowing. ALL-knowing.

I agree we should seek more to see things from His 'upper' perception..

God bless! (Gosh I hope I can get back here today!  :HeartThrob: :girlheart:

[eaglesway]

How about scripture calling Yahweh the God of Gods? Or the psalms saying, you are gods, referring even to humans. The term "god" is misleading because the term is too small for Yahweh. How would you call someone who has created this vast infinite cosmos? Is that really just a god or in the end someone else entirely, a category of being whose highness and might we cannot even begin to fathom. That's why I think calling Zeus a god doeesn't take away from Yahweh's truth and glory at all. And there were people in Greece and Rome and the mediterranean who reported spiritual experiences with Zeus. And to use the bible again, the book doesn't even mention Zeus. There are no proscriptions against his religion. Do as you will, but I wanted to give a scriptural argument here. Yahweh is the God of gods.

That phrase doesn't mean there are other real Gods, but rather He is THE real God of all the other made up in men's minds gods. As for the psalmist's words, you have to understand that Mt. Sinai was a wedding ceremony, a making of the two one, as a man and his wife are one.

So since they were made the body to the Head, in that sense when He said the Shema "Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God is one God", had they heard it spiritually, they would have heard that they had been joined to Him and via THAT, had become one with God, and so, a "god". When they denied that, they denied themselves and because as a man thinketh in his heart so is he, they ceased to exist for a season.

And in the psalms, His point is not to stress that they are gods, but rather that they die like men and not like gods. How does a God die? No greater love has any man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.

The Word doesn't have to mention any of the man made gods by name, but it does mention several, and just because Zeus is not mentioned by name doesn't make him exempt from the prohibition of worshipping other gods. Also, the fact that some of his followers may have reported having spiritual experiences with his worship, doesn't mean that his worship is justified, as Jesus had a spiritual experience with Satan in the wilderness too, but He refused to worship him, and He is our example for how to handle such spiritual experiences. Blessings...

:thumbsup:

[anti_nietzsche]

It says repeatedly in the Epistles that Jesus is Lord of Lords and all powers, might, lords and authorities are subject to him. For me that also speaks about smaller gods like Zeus or Krishna. The Trinity is simply the Father of everything, including these gods. And they also had to repent and believe.

[DanielB]

Whether something like henotheism is true may be a matter of semantics. It depends on how we define "deity". Maybe there are angels or something with a lot of power(but all power comes from God and all are God's creations). That being said, what does it matter if Zeus, etc where real spirits rather than purely imaginary? We still should not accept worship of them(it is no more legitimate than worshiping a human, a demon, a brick wall, or any other creation of God). If there are such beings and they are truly good/benevolent, they will not desire worship and will refuse worship directed at them because if they are good and so wise, they will know that it is only good to worship God and nobody else(they will know that it is harmful for worship to be directed at them). There is plenty of wisdom and truth in other religion but the same could be said of Nazism and like Nazism, the lies kind of ruin the belief system(not that all are as disastrous). Of course we should be quick to love and accept people of other belief systems(whether they are friendly buddhists or nazis or satanists) but that does not mean agreeing with them. We can even respect a person's reasons for choosing a certain other religion but we don't have to accept the religion. There is apparently a myth going around in the world that it is arrogant or unloving or otherwise bad to disagree with people or believe they are mistaken but that make no sense since everyone knows commonly accepted evidence against this(we can see a child as mistaken without hating them or we can learn and change our mind without hating yourself or our past self).

What in your mind, is the harm in denying other religions? How is it a vice or a mistake? If you were to deny other religions, in what way would you become less refined? Many of us deny other religions without looking down on people, without refusing to love them, without denying that there is some truth or value bundled in with the falsehoods(for example, I think some of the eastern religions have some useful tips about psychology but that does not mean the rest is true), or without even considering our own religious beliefs to be perfect(just because christianity is true does not necessarily mean that we will properly understand what it says). I don't have anything against loving people of other religions or considering them equals(that is basic christianity and humility) anymore than you do.

My attitude towards people of other religions is the same as my attitude towards calvinists. I gladly accept what I think is true of calvinism(and a lot of beliefs held by calvinists are perfectly true) but I "dogmatically" deny things like limited atonement without hesitation. The same goes for mormons. The same goes for other religions(some are more true than others like islam has many more truths than satanism and arminianism more than islam unless maybe the muslim acknowledges the power and will of God to bring all to truth and salvation in which case I might consider them closer to the truth than an arminian or a calvinist). Things are not as black and white as "we are absolutely right and they are absolutely wrong" because I assume there are people of other religions that get some things right that I get wrong(and vice versa) but I believe scripture(insofar as I understand it) and I think christianity tends to have the biggest chunk of truth out there.

Rather than seeing it as black and white "You know all truth or you know none." and rather than accepting all religions as true, we can think of different religions as teams of theologians doing a test full of TONS of questions(many of which are hard to get right) with the option to leave some questions unanswered(because no religion or scriptures answer all questions). You are basically guaranteed to get very importan answers wrong unless you have a reliable guide. Since I believe in what our Bible says, I think christianity has the best guide. My "beef" with other religions is what they get wrong rather than what they get right(how we answer some questions is more important than others). Getting the answers wrong can sometimes be very harmful, especially when we get basic things about God wrong(like denying mercy, power, etc)wrong or when we get moral principles wrong(like how to treat other people right and how not to harm people which isn't always a matter of common sense because some things are not super obvious and unambiguous. Especially because understanding of God's boundaries/commands often comes after obedience rather than before obedience.)

[DanielB]

With my analogy, some religions may teach some right answers to questions that the Bible doesn't even address(not specifically anyway) but that fact may not be enough to redeem the religion if it gets certain things wrong(like says that God is hateful or selfish or not perfectly loving or is too petty to be concerned about little "specks" in the universe like humans). We can also apply the analogy to different variations of the Abrahamic religions or denominations of christianity or even individuals. For example, as a very young child, I got what I consider the most important answers right(I knew that God loved everyone and could achieve whatever he wanted and that people would be saved) and I didn't answer many theological questions(they would be blank on the test). Even though I did not know or care about the answers to as many questions, my theology was more pure or more free of error than the theologies I had in my teens(where I knew more answers but got some things wrong enough that it spoiled the rest).

I hope I am not being to convoluted for you all. :)

[eaglesway]

Even though I did not know or care about the answers to as many questions, my theology was more pure or more free of error than the theologies I had in my teens(where I knew more answers but got some things wrong enough that it spoiled the rest).

That is a beautiful statement and a critical truth at the same time. Little foxes spoil the vine. Deep infections destroy the body. This is why Paul talked about the wood,hay, stubble, versus the gold silver and precious stone.

He said there is only one foundation and everyone must be circumspect in what they build upon it.

I believe that Jesus- as the Logos in the beginning- a Lamb slain to reveal the heart of YHWH who saves, Yeshua- Alpha to the Omega, In whom dwells the fulness of deity in bodily form, and through whom evrything in heaven and earth will be reconciled and restored.

Jesus is that foundation as the Logos- the manifest character of the One True God and Father of spirits.

As such all who see Him as He is, will give Him glory. Those who do not give Him His due have not yet seen Him as He is, perhaps they have only seen the wood, hay and stubble representations of Him and are(understandably) confused or deterred for a time.

But He said, "If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me"- a statement foolishly undervalued by so many- but truly one of the most profound statements of His authority, His purpose and the method of its awesome power. Love and forgiveness.

He alone has been given that glory as of the only begotten of the Father, and He did nt use it to rule, but rather to serve. So if we consider that Jesus said, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father", then we understand that all authority that comes from God serves in His purpose to restore all things until there is no longer any need for rule power or authority(1 Cor 15:25-28; Romans 8:23)

When God is all in all, love will be all in all, because God is love- hence the abolishment of all rule power and authority, because when that which is perfect is come, that which is imperfect is dissolved and cast away. Perfect love casts out fear, because fear has torment.

If God allowed people He created to dwell in torment forever, His love is not perfect, His purpose imperfect and inconsistent with His representation of Himself in Jesus, His words of no consequence in a universe in which fear, torment and futility thrive forever right in front of all faces.

That is one of those things as you have spoken Daniel, sufficently disgusting a pollution to ruin all the rest, because it attacks the very foundation itself, Jesus- the radiance of the Fathers glory and the exact representation of His nature.

To portray Him in such a way, that is so far from who He is, is a deep....bone deep, infection in the body.

So much confusion about religion, but He is always, "I Am". No one comes to Father but through Him- but that is because of what He is- perfect love- not because of religious knowledge or practice ot theology or mythologies of any kind or culture or time. Every being in creation has the imprint of Him at the core of their consciousness- whther they are seeking it, or know it, or are in rebellion to it-

Well, that will all come out in the wash.

1Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, 2in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever. Rev 22

[anti_nietzsche]

Okay, all, what do you think of this psalm? It seems to speak clearly that there are other gods who are not demons but instead offspring of God just like we are. It seems to say they acted unjustly and, most importantly, unmercifully, and that was reason for the Most High to judge them.

Psalm 82New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

Psalm 82[a]
The Downfall of Unjust Gods
1 A psalm of Asaph.

I
God takes a stand in the divine council,
    gives judgment in the midst of the gods.
2 "How long will you judge unjustly
    and favor the cause of the wicked?
Selah
3 "Defend the lowly and fatherless;
    render justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Rescue the lowly and poor;
    deliver them from the hand of the wicked."
II
5 The gods neither know nor understand,
    wandering about in darkness,
    and all the world's foundations shake.
6 I declare: "Gods though you be,[c]
    offspring of the Most High all of you,
7 Yet like any mortal you shall die;
    like any prince you shall fall."
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth,[d]
    for yours are all the nations.

[DanielB]

I think that most people if not all people here do not have any issues with acknowledging that other spiritual beings could exist. The questions I would ask are...

1. How should such a thing affect us if it is true? What pragmatic significance is there? Is is just some curiosity or interesting thing to think about or do you see some practical implications for humans in this life?

2. How are we defining "gods" or "deities"? This can certainly be a matter of semantics. I doubt the hebrews had the same understanding of what makes someone "elohim"(if I remember the word correctly) as an average modern person's ideas about what makes someone a "god". If someone asks "Are there multiple gods?", we need to ask "How are you defining a 'god'?" because I don't think there is really a huge consensus in what qualifies a being for being considered a god. How are you defining it? Semantics can be very important here and can lead to an illusion of disagreement/agreement.

God created all and sustains all and nobody even comes close to being his equal(Zeus or Odin would be infinitely weaker because any being who is not God is finite and relies upon God).

[Cardinal]

It says repeatedly in the Epistles that Jesus is Lord of Lords and all powers, might, lords and authorities are subject to him. For me that also speaks about smaller gods like Zeus or Krishna. The Trinity is simply the Father of everything, including these gods. And they also had to repent and believe.

God created all that is, and that didn't include other gods. Man created them, which He makes plain all throughout the scriptures. He also makes it plain they have no power, as He did with Elijah. They are "gods" of wood and stone and the demonic spirits behind them are what men were worshipping and in some cases, didn't even know it. But we know better. Blessings....

[jabcat]

It says repeatedly in the Epistles that Jesus is Lord of Lords and all powers, might, lords and authorities are subject to him. For me that also speaks about smaller gods like Zeus or Krishna. The Trinity is simply the Father of everything, including these gods. And they also had to repent and believe.

God created all that is, and that didn't include other gods. Man created them, which He makes plain all throughout the scriptures. He also makes it plain they have no power, as He did with Elijah. They are "gods" of wood and stone and the demonic spirits behind them are what men were worshipping and in some cases, didn't even know it. But we know better. Blessings....

and Paul said God once winked at ignorance (when they were worshiping false gods), but that He now calls on all men to repent. 

[Cardinal]

Amen, yes He does....Blessings...

[anti_nietzsche]

I'm not sure if you actually know who God the Father of Jesus is. For me He is the Spirit of the Cosmos. The creator and birther of ALL that is. The cosmic background where our souls and spirits come from. The other gods are simply not comparable to this Spirit. They are smaller and only govern small portions of the world. They have been charged by the Great Spirit to watch over us and help the Spirit, much like the angels, saints and archangels and cherubim help God. At least that's my idea of it all. The other religions give too many reports of their gods being active. Zeus and Odin had come to me. Shall I now deny them? I cannot do anything against the truth. "The Lord is kind, and His goodness endures forever."

[eaglesway]

I'm not sure if you actually know who God the Father of Jesus is. For me He is the Spirit of the Cosmos. The creator and birther of ALL that is. The cosmic background where our souls and spirits come from. The other gods are simply not comparable to this Spirit. They are smaller and only govern small portions of the world. They have been charged by the Great Spirit to watch over us and help the Spirit, much like the angels, saints and archangels and cherubim help God. At least that's my idea of it all. The other religions give too many reports of their gods being active. Zeus and Odin had come to me. Shall I now deny them? I cannot do anything against the truth. "The Lord is kind, and His goodness endures forever."

Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."

God is not ruling through a network of local deities. This was the error of the Baals (little lords, local deities) that led to the high places of Israel where they worshipped the gods of the Philistines and the Amalekites alongside YHWH.

The Norse people sacrificed humans to appease their "gods", Odin, Thor etc. The conduct of the gods in all mythology was startlingly human and the teachings of these religions based on myths or distorted memories of Titans or whatever- all run contrary to the teachings of the Lord Jesus. They amount to man making gods in his own image. So you are denying the truth of the Lordship of Jesus in order to support a myth about a subservient network of gods under YHWH who are really no more than idols strung together by myths.

Sing to the Lord a new song;
sing to the Lord, all the earth.
Sing to the Lord, praise his name;
proclaim his salvation day after day.
Declare his glory among the nations,
his marvelous deeds among all peoples.
For great is the Lord and most worthy of praise;
he is to be feared above all gods.
For all the gods of the nations are idols,
but the Lord made the heavens. Psalm 96

[jabcat]

I think this is a good place to lock this thread;

Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."


For all the gods of the nations are idols,
but the Lord made the heavens. Psalm 96

Gary Amirault - "To enter Christ's Body, one must be born from above.    We do not believe members of other religions are saved at this time.  Salvation should be just as much our possession on this side of the grave as on the other. We, who have been given salvation should be sharing that salvation through the fruit in our lives by being joined to Christ. We should be ministering to the lost through the gifts of the Holy Spirit He has deposited in us. We should be the salt of the earth, we should be its light. If God wanted to save the entire planet today, He easily could. But He has a plan. In that plan, salvation is extended to people in an order, that order extends beyond our present age. We also believe in evangelism. People come to Christ through the gospel, through preaching the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. ..we believe God holds us accountable to living a moral and orderly life."