We've had several different discussions that the information here touches on. I believe the purpose of God's plan for the ages is one of the most left out and overlooked things in Christendom. It is usually believed that we live, die, either go to heaven or hell, and that's it. I hope you find the following interesting and helpful.
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..the "breadth, height and depth" of the power of Jesus Christ's sacrifice ...will be revealed during the future ages that Paul said would unfold in our planet's future. Many Christians overlook the biblical teachings that when Christ returns, the only people resurrected are the righteous saints who will rule with Christ for 1000 years (Revelation 20:4 and 6), but the "rest of the dead [the unsaved] lived not until the thousand years were finished" (Revelation 20:5). When the unsaved are all resurrected after the millennium, the "book of life" is again "opened" (Revelation 20:11-12). This statement has huge implications for afterlife issues." Steven M. Collins
Excerpts from http://www.purposeoflife.org.uk/the%20ages%20doc.htm
An eonian purpose
Ephesians 3:11 states that this purpose is an 'eonian' purpose. Most translations read 'eternal' purpose, but if it were eternal the purpose itself would never be realised! The fruit of this fulfilled goal though will be 'eternal', as this word is normally understood, that is, it will never end. But the overall plan and ultimate goal is revealed in Scripture as occurring within 'the eons' or 'ages' – hence it is an eonian plan with an eonian purpose. This causes a major stumbling block in most translations, which read everlasting, eternal, forever and ever, etc.
..according to most translations, some scriptures (including Revelation 22:5 and Revelation 11:15) state that Christ and His servants shall 'reign forever and ever!' This proves the folly of inconsistent translation. We will of course reign for the eons of the eons until the Consummation, when God's purpose will be complete - but not forever and ever. And needless to say, God's kingdom shall endure 'forever.'
The Ages
.... This final Age will probably last for many thousands of years, but we are not specifically told, although in Deuteronomy 7:9 and 1 Chronicles 16:15-18, God promises that His covenant with Israel would last for a thousand generations! There is much debate as to what constitutes a generation, and biblically speaking, it would appear to be 40 years, but even if we take 20 years as the minimum for a generation, the conclusion is 20,000 years! Of course, the thousand generations is no doubt figurative, but time will tell!
All the previous Ages have ended with some kind of cataclysmic judgment, but such is not the case with the final Eon. This Age shall close with the vivification of the remainder of humanity who are held by the Second Death, and it shall result in the complete reconciliation of ALL creatures in the heavens and on the earth to God, as Father of ALL. This will be a glorious consummation - a triumph deserving of the Creator of the universe, and His Son, who gave Himself for ALL.
So eventually God's plan and purpose for the Ages will be complete, when the events of 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 will be realised.
We cannot be dogmatic about the administrations, and it can't be emphasised enough, that this is only a guide to assist us in understanding God's Word as it relates to history and His plan. The number of the administrations can vary depending on your viewpoint. For example, A. E. Knoch and the Concordant Publishing Concern, who I was influenced by for many years, teaches that there are 12 administrations. I will just be listing the foundational ones here that clearly exist in Scripture.
7. The Administration of Fullness (or Glory)
This is the final 'administration of the complement of the eras' spoken of by Paul (Ephesians 1:10; Revelation 21-22). It is the era of the manifestation of the kingdom of God in all its fullness and glory. It will begin after the White Throne Judgment Day, at the beginning of the New Creation, and will last until the Consummation, when death shall be abolished and all will be reconciled to God as Father, that He may be All in All (Revelation 21:1 - 22:5; 1 Corinthians 15:20-28).
This will also be an administration of Righteousness and Justice, and will begin with the events of the Day of the Lord and the great Judgment Day. For all unbelievers and religious hypocrites, it will also be an administration of Wrath.
Seven Administrations speaks of the completion and fullness of God's age-abiding Plan and Purpose.
Paul's Revealed Secrets
Paul revealed much more than the other apostles in his message to the nations, and his letters contain a progressive revelation of new truth (or secrets) that were primarily, but not solely, for the nations.
Nevertheless, Paul reveals things that are only found in his letters, and these revelations were given to him through personal appearances of Christ. These secrets and his additional details of prophecy, along with specific instructions for believers of the nations, were an extension of what Jesus and the Twelve had previously revealed, and was not something separate from them. The primary secret that Paul revealed was the Administration of Grace (Ephesians 3:2), which would occur during Israel's national rejection and partial blindness, in which God is calling out a people from all nations to complement the remnant of Israel chosen by grace to rule with Christ in the future ages (Romans 11). This 'Body of Christ' is a Firstfruit of the ultimate destiny of ALL humanity, the ecclesia of the Firstborn (James 1:18; Romans 8:23; Hebrews 12:23; Revelation 14:4).
*Addendum: The Disruption
The phrase the disruption of the world is literally 'the down-casting of the world system (Gr. kosmos),' that is, a foundational change in the order of things on this earth. Now this evidently occurred at the close of the First Age, as shown earlier in this study, due to the spiritual rebellion that formed the kingdom of darkness. But there was clearly another disruption of the world at the beginning of the Second Age, at the very beginning of humanity's existence on this planet, which is more relevant for us now as humans.
Quote from: jabcat on August 09, 2011, 12:36:41 AM
We've had several different discussions that the information here touches on. I believe the purpose of God's plan for the ages is one of the most left out and overlooked things in Christendom.
Including this forum I think. It's mentioned but never as a really in depth discussion.
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/All_about_eons.htm
Quote from: WhiteWings on August 09, 2011, 10:36:40 AM
Quote from: jabcat on August 09, 2011, 12:36:41 AM
We've had several different discussions that the information here touches on. I believe the purpose of God's plan for the ages is one of the most left out and overlooked things in Christendom.
Including this forum I think. It's mentioned but never as a really in depth discussion.
http://home.online.nl/spamfree/All_about_eons.htm
This forum is where I learned about it.
And everything went
Cha-ching :icon_king:
I know Molly, I was thinking about you. :bigGrin:
Along with aion and "hell", it's just "one of those really, really MAJOR things" that could help people better understand! :friendstu:
Quote
The phrase the disruption of the world is literally 'the down-casting of the world system (Gr. kosmos),' that is, a foundational change in the order of things on this earth. Now this evidently occurred at the close of the First Age, as shown earlier in this study, due to the spiritual rebellion that formed the kingdom of darkness. But there was clearly another disruption of the world at the beginning of the Second Age, at the very beginning of humanity's existence on this planet, which is more relevant for us now as humans.
:thumbsup:
http://www.gtft.org/Library/knoch/TheDisruption.htm
Down-casting is the oppostite of vivify...... ?
I'd never thought of it that way.
Reading these words from the Knoch article you link to WW, this jouney seems like a LONG time; yet for each of us, this life is a vapor. However, in God's plan of the ages, there's a resurrection and a resumption of the journey. Or is it conclusion? If so, then it's a VERY long ("of the ages") conclusion. :happygrin:
"But the grandest occurrence of our word is in Eph.1:4. We were selected in Christ before the disruption of this world's system when we were holy and without a blemish in His very presence. The AV rendering "that we should be" is without any warrant whatever. Literally it reads "to be," but with no thought of contingency whatever. So then, before sin came on the scene to play its horrid part, God selected us, that is, chose us for Himself. And this selection was entirely uninfluenced by sin, and ever since, in Christ, He sees us thus.
How marvelous is this thought! His plans and counsels for the earth seem all to date from the disruption which sin wrought (Matt.13:35; 25:34; Rev.17:8). But two things find their place before that catastrophe the love God bears His Son (John 17:24) and the selection of the members of the body of His Christ. These members are indeed last and lowest as to time and rank on earth, but they were first of all mankind in His purpose and will be first again when He begins to reveal His glory; yes, and will be highest in the final consummation." - A.E. Knoch (Concordant Publishing Concern)
well,there are man's plan's and God's. I use to be a Jehovah's wittness..and they had this teaching,too. Originally C.T.Russel came up with it[?]..the millerites also
it's origen's go pretty far back. THERE ARE A LOT OF SECTS IN CHRISTENDOM PLANNING ON RULING EVERYONE IN THAT 1000YR REIGN :bigGrin:
in that 'divine' plan...
Micah 4;10 The Lord's plan.....writhe in agony O Daughter of Zion,like a woman in labour,for now,you must leave the city to camp in the open field.
You will go to Babylon,THERE YOU WILL BE RESCUED,THERE THE LORD WILL REDEEM YOU OUT OF THE HANDS OF YOUR ENEMIES
BUT NOW MANY NATIONS ARE GATHERED AGAINST YOU,THEY SAY,LET HER BE DEFILED,LET OUR EYES GLOAT OVER ZION!.
All mankind receive the first resurrection[appointed unto men to die once] THEY CAME TO LIFE[CHRIST DRAWS ALL MEN] AND REIGNED
WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS[DAY OF JUDGEMNT/VICTORY THROUGH CHRIST/prince of this world judged]. The rest of the dead did not come to life
til the 1000 years was ended=those who were not drawn in this life but at death are raised up in HIM THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION...
THE SECOUND DEATH HAS NO POWER OVER THEM.
At the end of 1000 year reign satan released[from abyss/death state] goes forth to deceive nations[men in flesh/deceived by adversary] fire come down
from heaven and devoured them...THE DEVIL THROWN IN LAKE OF FIRE. EX; Saul was part of Gog's deceived when he began persecuting 'camp'
of God's city
SOS 6;10 WHO IS THIS THAT APPEARS LIKE THE DAWN,FAIR AS THE MOON,BRIGHT AS THE SUN,
MAJESTIC AS THE STARS IN PROCESSION?
Place me like a seal over your heart,like a seal on your arm...FOR LOVE IS AS STRONG AS DEATH,IT'S JEALOUSY AS UNYEILDING AS THE GRAVE
IT BURNS LIKE BLAZING FIRE,LIKE A MIGHTY FLAME
BUT THEY DO NOT KNOW THE THOUGHTS OF THE LORD,THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND HIS PLAN
HE WHO GATHERS THE SHEAVES TO THE THRESHING FLOOR...
All men receive first resurrection...when they come to life..they come to Christ..while in this world[flesh] or at their death... Now Paul was as one born
prematurely in this manner....satan loosed to go out and deceive nations to surround camp of God's city He loves[beleivers drawn to Christ in this life]
SUDDENLY A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN FLASHED AROUND HIM[fire came down from heaven] Paul was anxious to attain first resurrection due to
his position and ministry to 'nations' and apostleship to them...for as Saul he was classed in that group deceived by satan to attack.
That's why he said he was the least and unworthy to be called apostle...for most in this class are changed at death..and not drawn to life while still
in flesh. the 144,000 sealed from Israel's tribes. Now God took from nations also to be preist's unto Him...and appointed Paul unto the nations...
Great multitude/great tribulation standing before the throne....these are they who have come out of the great tribulation
Matthew 24;22 if those days had not been cut short[tribulation/persecution of camp]no one would survive,but for the sake of the elect
those days will be shortened[and just as 'fire' come down on Saul,so too..fire come down on those deceived by adversary now,who fight against
the 'camp']
Quote from: jabcat on August 09, 2011, 12:36:41 AM
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The phrase the disruption of the world is literally 'the down-casting of the world system (Gr. kosmos),' that is, a foundational change in the order of things on this earth. Now this evidently occurred at the close of the First Age, as shown earlier in this study, due to the spiritual rebellion that formed the kingdom of darkness. But there was clearly another disruption of the world at the beginning of the Second Age, at the very beginning of humanity's existence on this planet, which is more relevant for us now as humans.
What exactly "is" the "world system"?
Aleax,
What are your thoughts on...
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
with the focus on... not willingly and Him who did the subjecting?
Our theology and beliefs must be supported by scripture! Yet, Here is another fun one, considering we all believe in universal reconciliation as I do!
Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
You need to expand beyond Hell, and seek the understanding of Jesus' purpose... the Kingdom of God!
Luke 4:43 But He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, for I was sent for this purpose."
Your on the right track, keep seeking!
Paul
For me, the creation under subjection "not willingly" isn't speaking of men, but it's speaking of the earth itself. It's under the curse due to Adam's sin. It didn't willingly subject itself to the curse, but through Adam's dominion over the earth, when Adam was driven from the garden, everything under his authority was affected by that, including the earth itself.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
New Living Translation
9 For all creation is waiting eagerly for that future day when God will reveal who his children really are. 20 Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope, 21 the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay. 22 For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children,[j] including the new bodies he has promised us. 24 We were given this hope when we were saved. (If we already have something, we don't need to hope[k] for it. 25 But if we look forward to something we don't yet have, we must wait patiently and confidently.)
Quote from: Pierac on September 29, 2011, 10:20:16 PM
Aleax,
What are your thoughts on...
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
with the focus on... not willingly and Him who did the subjecting?
Our theology and beliefs must be supported by scripture! Yet, Here is another fun one, considering we all believe in universal reconciliation as I do!
Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
You need to expand beyond Hell, and seek the understanding of Jesus' purpose... the Kingdom of God!
Luke 4:43 But He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, for I was sent for this purpose."
Your on the right track, keep seeking!
Paul
Hi,
As for the question about Rom 8:20, I find myself agreeing what Nathan wrote.
As for Acts 13:48, I read it as "and as many as had been appointed to be born ahead of time and to receive eonian life believed."
I personally believe there are 3 groups of people.
a] The elect few, the overcomers. They receive celestial bodies at the better resurrection and are lifted to heavenly realms to rule with Christ for 1,000 years.
b] Believers who were saved by their faith, but couldn't overcome the world. They are resurrected, but only receive terrestial bodies and will not be allowed to take part in the governmental part of the Kingdom. However, they will have eonian life for thousand years.
c] Non-believers. Only resurrected after the 1,000 years have passed. These people have to pass through the Lake of Fire.
Natural people passing through . . .what . . .a natural lake of fire? If it's a spiritual lake of fire, how do you see natural individuals passing through a spiritual lake?
Quote from: Aleax on September 30, 2011, 10:29:15 AM
Hi,
As for the question about Rom 8:20, I find myself agreeing what Nathan wrote.
As for Acts 13:48, I read it as "and as many as had been appointed to be born ahead of time and to receive eonian life believed."
I personally believe there are 3 groups of people.
a] The elect few, the overcomers. They receive celestial bodies at the better resurrection and are lifted to heavenly realms to rule with Christ for 1,000 years.
b] Believers who were saved by their faith, but couldn't overcome the world. They are resurrected, but only receive terrestial bodies and will not be allowed to take part in the governmental part of the Kingdom. However, they will have eonian life for thousand years.
c] Non-believers. Only resurrected after the 1,000 years have passed. These people have to pass through the Lake of Fire.
Interesting, Where do your find support for these A , B , and C groups in scripture?
I see support for
A but only in earthly realm?
I can find no support for
B?
I agree with
C in Totality.
Your beliefs in B are new to me... Please share more.
Paul
[Phil 3:14]...press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus
...that ye might be partakers of the divine nature...[2 Pet 1:4]
"partakers"
κοινωνός
koinōnos
koy-no-nos'
From G2839; a sharer, that is, associate: - companion, X fellowship, partaker, partner.
When the Gentiles heard this, they were very glad and thanked the Lord for his message; and all who were chosen for eternal life became believers. [Acts 13:48]
3 groups - 2 resurrections
GROUP#1
Rev 20 [ACV]
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them. And judgment was given to them and the souls of those who were beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not worship the beast nor his image,
5 The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. On these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will reign with him a thousand years.
- People who are going to rule during the millenium Kingdom.
- They are beheaded because of their testemony of Jesus. So obviously they are Christians.
- I think it's the group mentioned in the verse below because it's just a single trumpet. A single trumpet is a call for the leaders.
1Thess 4 [ACV]
16 Because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the arch-agent, and with a trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first,
- The verses do not state what percentage of the Christians will be raised. Could be anywhere between 0-100%
- Will all Christians become leaders during the 1000 years or only part of them?
- If at this point all Christians are raised the second resurrection is purely works based. (all are unbelievers)
- I think only a small percentage of the Christians belongs to group #1 because logically speaking billions of Christians in to much for leadership and of course there is the following three verses:
Matt 7 [ACV]
21 Not every man who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of my Father in the heavens.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
23 And then I will profess to them, I never acknowledged you. Depart from me, ye who work lawlessness.
- Obviously the people mentioned above where Christians simply because only Christians prophesied about Jesus.
- It's also obvious that the Christians Jesus told to depart aren't going to rule with Him.
GROUP#2 and 3
John 5 [ACV]
28 Marvel not at this, because an hour comes in which all those in the sepulchers will hear his voice,
29 and will come forth, those who have done right to a resurrection of life, and those who have practiced wrong to a resurrection of judgment.
- The 2 verses above show 2 groups being resurrected.
- They must be different from group 1 because those in LoF obviously won't be rulers.
- Groups#2 and #3 are resurrected 1000 years after group#1 (see verse below)
5 The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
So.... :2c:
Group#1: The Elect. Christians in word and deed. ==> They recieve life and 1000 year rulership.
Group#2: The remaining Christians. ==> They recieve life.
Group#3: All other people. ==> They are cast into LoF
I'd add, I believe the mark of the beast, may only apply to carnal christians.
In REV their are:
those who dwell in heaven--overcomers
those who dwell on the earth--majority of christians
those who dwell in the sea-- unsaved
The beast is given authority over those who dwell on the earth, the overcomers do not take the mark, or worship the image, the unsaved don't even know they are dead already
REV 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done.
Why would you differentiate the dead in the sea from those in death and hades? wouldn't they already be in death and hades? Unless its speaking of metaphorically dead. Of course Jesus makes us fishers of men
33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. [John 16:33]
OVERCOMERS
1)overcome evil with good [Rom 12:21]
2)overcome the wicked one [1John 2:13]
3)overcome the antichrists [1John 4:4]
4)overcome the world with faith [1 John 5:4]
5)believe Jesus is the Son of God [1 John 5:5]
6)will eat from the tree of life [Rev 2:7]
7)shall not be hurt of the second death [Rev 2:11]
8)will eat of the hidden manna [Rev 2:17]
9)will be given a white stone with a new name by Jesus [Rev 2:17]
10)will be given power over the nations [Rev 2:26]
11)will be clothed in white raiment, his name will be in the book of life, and Jesus will confess his name before the Father and before his angels [Rev 3:5]
12)will be a pillar in the temple of God, shall no more go out. Jesus will write on him the name of his God, the name of the city of his God [new Jerusalem], and his new name. [Rev 3:12]
13)will sit with Jesus on his throne [Rev 3:21]
14)shall inherit all things;
and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
[Rev 21:7]
Quote from: Nathan on September 30, 2011, 03:55:10 PM
Natural people passing through . . .what . . .a natural lake of fire? If it's a spiritual lake of fire, how do you see natural individuals passing through a spiritual lake?
AFAIK the believers are going through "a spiritual lake of fire" in this life by dying to sin. Non-believers will be thrown into a "natural" lake of fire after the GWTJ. I don't believe it will be literal fire though.
AFAIK? That one went over my head.
And in your "natural, but not literal" lake of fire . . .are they remaining there? Are they destroyed there? What's the purpose for this lake you speak of?
IMO the fire of God, in all its manifestations, is also the light of God(burns up darkness), which is the love of God(1John Ch 1,2). Love, Light, Fire- all descriptive words expressing the RADIANT BEING of I AM. Jesus, as the EXACT REPRESENTATION(Heb 1) of the DIVINE NATURE and the RADIANCE OF THE FATHERS GLORY, is the Vine of the New Creation, the See dof the Second Adam. Anyone who abides in Him has passed from death unto life and can walk,shine,rejoice in the fire
I believe :2c: the word states that the lake of fire is a specific manifestation of the light/fire/love of God reserved to penetrate the resistance of those "whose conscience accuses them when God judges men by Jesus Christ by the secrets of their hearts on the Day"(Romans 2.) The LIGHT will shine (His eyes are as flames of fire) and the secrets of the hearts will be revealed. The Sword of the Spirit will come forth from His mouth and soul and spirit will be divided and the secrets of the heart will become manifest.
For all those who believe- this is already a daily experience. They have passed from death unto life. Neither they, nor the righteous dead(those whose conscience excuses them before Jesus Christ on the Day Romans 2) of the second resurrection(sheep) will experience the lake of fire-"For it is the doers of the law who will be justified, not the hearers". Those who by nature kept the law of God , as proclaimed by the things that are made, are a law unto themselves, and as such are "sheep(Romans 2)". "Therefore you are without excuse O Man, who judges another, when you do the same things".
Again IMO :2c: The overcomers of all the ages will recieve celestial bodies in the better/first resurrection. ALL the rest of the dead will go before the Great White Throne on the Day(Romans 2, Rev 20:5,11,12, John 5:20-29). The righteous to a resurrection of life, the unrighteous to a resurrection of krisis(tribunal)(John 5: 20-29)- presumably represented symbolicly by the words lake of fire- "punished in the presence of God and His Holy Messengers", until they "pay the last penny", meaning until"every knee shall bow and every tongue confess..to the glory of God the Father",meaning every adversary subjected-which means brought into love/light/fire, or harmony with God- and God "from whom and thru whom and to whom are all things- to whom be the glory" becomes ALL IN ALL, EVERYTHING IN EVERYONE :bgdance:
Our hearts have been "sprinkled clean from an evil conscience"(heb)as long as we abide in the vine. As for those whose "works are burned up, but whose spirit is saved on the day, but who shall lose there reward".... saved(sozo) means healed, delivered. I believe this simply means they lose the overcomers rewards(better resurrection) and enter life with the sheep of the second resurrection, that fire that burned up their works being the light by which Jesus, the Lamp, judges the works of the churches in Rev chptrs 1-3, and Heb 4:11-13)
Quote from: Nathan on October 03, 2011, 06:21:24 PM
AFAIK? That one went over my head.
And in your "natural, but not literal" lake of fire . . .are they remaining there? Are they destroyed there? What's the purpose for this lake you speak of?
AFAIK = as far as I know
I think Eaglesway explained the Lake of Fire well. Its purpose is to purify. After you've been purged and done your sentence you are free to leave. The Bible states the LoF is second death. In my opinion that means dying to sin. Everyone will be salted with fire. You can go through the second death either
a] fully in this eon and receive a celestial body at the better resurrection
b] partially in this eon and receive a terrestrial body at the better resurrection
c] in the lake of fire, but this means missing out on the Millennial Kingdom (eonian loss).
As always, just my :2c:
The entire book "God's Unfailing Plan Revealed in the Eons" by Dora van Assen can now be downloaded here (http://www.2shared.com/file/pYa-ADzw/Gods_Unfailing_Plan_Revealed_i.html).
It's a sequel to "God's Unfailing Love Revealed in the Cross" that's available at Lighthouse Library. The first part is an overview of UR and the Plan of the Ages. In the second part the author takes an in-depth look at each individual eon and explains them in detail.
Click on the lower "Download" link, not the upper "Download Now" link. The upper link just triggers the download of some software I haven't got anything to do with.
(I deleted a few posts in this thread, that is, my attempts at trying to present the book by using a word recognizion software and converting the scanned material into text form. I realized the text is too faded in places to be automatically recognized. I had to correct stuff manually a lot. This time I just made PDF pages of the scanner output.)
"But wisdom we speak among the mature, but not wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to naught. But we speak the wisdom of God in a secret, the hidden wisdom which God predetermined before the ages unto our glory"
1 Corinthians 2:6–7
"mature"
G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
Quote from: Aleax on October 04, 2011, 02:30:33 AM
(I deleted a few posts in this thread, that is, my attempts at trying to present the book by using a word recognizion software and converting the scanned material into text form. I realized the text is too faded in places to be automatically recognized.
Is the original faded too? If not try scanning with a black and white setting. Playing wit the contrast settinsg should do the job. The resulting scans will be much smaller. I think the whole book would be about 500KB
This software does a nice job scanning and OCRing: http://www.hamrick.com/
Just try the demo.
I meant the original hard copy book has faded text, possibly too faded for using teh OCR method. The book is out of print and I was only able to find a used copy. For now one must d/l the ~60 Mb file if they want the book. There probably would've been a way to reduce the size greatly, but my computer skills are kind of outdated.
Ok, understood.
I'll join the pages into one file and will try to reduce the size.
I'll PM you when done.
Thanks to WW it's now available merged in one file, and in 10% of the original size.
https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1244495050/50d64ff74761faccf10f95b2e525c4c6
The link seems to expire on Oct 11, so grab the book before that if you want it.
Anyone have any new thoughts on this topic? It's such an awesome, HUGE thing!
Quote from: jabcat on November 29, 2011, 08:24:57 AM
Anyone have any new thoughts on this topic? It's such an awesome, HUGE thing!
The chart (http://home.online.nl/spamfree/Eon_charts.htm) from Concordant Publishing is a huge thing; below is a tiny segment from it:
(http://www.sentex.net/~tcc/eons-aek.png)
Adolph Ernst Knoch was an ultradispensationalist, and so he was influenced by the views of John N. Darby, Wm. Kelly, E. W. Bullinger, Sir Robert Anderson, and others. He was associated with the "Plymouth Brethren" in Los Angeles, where he was baptized. His view on the 70 weeks of Daniel 9 is similar to theirs. His position on the Church was such that in his mind, he separated believers of Jewish descent, from those who were Gentiles. This is evident in many of his articles and is represented although in a rather obscure manner, in the full chart from Concordant Publishing, under the section "The mysteries or secrets," where the apostles of the Lord are placed in a box separate from the "secret economy pertaining to God's purpose for the celestials." He puts this under the heading of Paul, while the other apostles are associated with ethnic Jews.
Wikipedia says of A. E. Knoch's theology, "Though in a revised forom, but still in principle, he retained the strong dispensationalism of the Brethren Movement (developed by Darby), and the two different gospels for the Jews and the Nations."
In the full chart, there is a box below the one representing the present church age in which it is stated, "When this section is folded under or covered the course God would have taken if Israel had not rejected their Messiah is exhibited."
I suspect this idea was derived from one of the nineteenth century German critics. It is incompatible with and IMO contradicts the statement of James, "Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." [Acts 15:18]
A perceptive person will see that Knoch's approach was racist, and contradicts Paul's view of the Church, as in Galatians 3:28, or Colossians 3:10-11. The latter Scripture says, "And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."
For Knoch, the "secret economy pertaining to God's purpose for the celestials," or the Gentile Church, began at the end of the book of Acts, or even later. There other types of dispensationalism such as "Acts 9 dispensationalism," "Acts 10 dispensationalism," "Acts 11 dispensationalism," "Acts 12 dispensationalism" ... or, simply, "Mid-Acts dispensationalism," but Knock's view is sometimes referred to as "Acts 28 dispensationalism," or more frequently, as "Ultradispensationalism" and "Bullingerism."
For Knoch, the earthly kingdom, the Millennium, is when Jews are exulted, and doted on by Gentiles, while his followers and other Gentile Christians have been "raptured" up to heaven, and so they are called the "celestials."
Knoch's thinking may possibly have been tainted by racist theories in Germany in his time. Knoch seems to have read the theological works of German scholars, and incorporated some of their views in his own work, without any acknowledgment. I remember once reading a book by Wm. Wrede that was translated into English and thinking how similar its views were to some of A. E. Knoch's writing. Wrede declared himself to be an unbeliever. According to Wikipedia, Knoch lived in Germany before the war and when he returned to America in 1939 he was put on an FBI watch list.
In the excerpt from the chart above, a Millennium is supposed to follow the present age, but there are several reasons why this ought to be seriously questioned, and I have presented some of these in another thread. Here, I will mention another one, from the book of Jude, especially vs. 14-15.
Jude 12-15
These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
"Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all." This tells us what Christ will do when he returns; not to exult Jews over the Gentiles as claimed in dispensationalism!
The thousand years or millennium of Rev. 20 is misplaced in the chart above, IMO. The saints who are
beheaded reign with Christ, and they are "blessed and holy," and "on such the second death hath no power." If this was referring to a future millennium as shown in the above chart, would it not be redundant to say "on such the second death hath no power"? If they were already raised up, and had been made immortal, why mention that?
The chart also reveals a misunderstanding of the earthquake of Rev. 16:17-21; see this post (http://creationconcept.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/mountains-and-islands-were-moved-out-of-their-places/).
And finally, 2 Peter 3 does not leave any room for a Millennium between this age and the time when the "fire" falls upon the ungodly: "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
In Knoch's view the "fire" is at the end of the Millennium; this contradicts what Peter wrote. But Knoch's attitude to the "Jewish" apostles was dismissive.
Doug
I read and heard somewhere that if Knoch would have kept his thoughts out of the CLV we would have had a much better translation. Just a notice. :dontknow:
Since the New Jerusalem (us) is being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus being the chief cornerstone....
And since the One New Man (us, again) is made up of Jews and Gentiles, Jesus being the "cap of the arch" or capstone.....
And since their is One Lord, One faith, One body, Jesus being head over all things to the church, his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all....
I don't have a whole lot of respect for the opinions of anyone who "dismisses" the apostles, especiallty the ultra-dispensationalists, who compartmentalize the Word of God in order to exclude their many and varied opinions from the weight of the "whole cloth" of the Word.
Quote from: eaglesway on November 30, 2011, 12:52:32 AM
Since the New Jerusalem (us) is being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus being the chief cornerstone....
And since the One New Man (us, again) is made up of Jews and Gentiles, Jesus being the "cap of the arch" or capstone.....
And since their is One Lord, One faith, One body, Jesus being head over all things to the church, his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all....
I don't have a whole lot of respect for the opinions of anyone who "dismisses" the apostles, especiallty the ultra-dispensationalists, who compartmentalize the Word of God in order to exclude their many and varied opinions from the weight of the "whole cloth" of the Word.
:dsunny: