Election & The Restitution Of All

[FineLinen]

The Restitution Of All Things & Election

Many Called: Few Chosen

There remains for our consideration a very important class of passages, supposed, erroneously, to favor the popular creed. These passages are those that speak of the "elect, " and their fewness; of the "many" called, but the "few" chosen.

That God's election is a doctrine clearly revealed in Scripture, no impartial reader can doubt: although unfortunately, around few subjects has the battle of controversy been so furiously waged. One party has, in affirming God's election - which is true, so affirmed it as to make Him into an arbitrary and cruel tyrant - which is false. But the truer and deeper views of God's plan of mercy through Jesus Christ - now in the ascendant I trust - teach us to affirm distinctly the doctrine of the divine election of "the few :" and just because we so affirm it, to connect with it purposes of universal mercy. For what is the true end and meaning of God's election?

The elect, we reply, are chosen, not for themselves only, but for the sake of others. They are "elect," not merely to be blessed, but to be a source of blessing. It is not merely with the paltry object of saving a few, while the vast majority perish, that God elects; it is with a purpose of mercy to all; it is by "the few" to save "the many ;" by the elect to save the world.

The Divine Purpose: Forever Overstepping Every Limit, Every Restraint.

"If you go to Scripture," says Dr. Cox, "you will find this its constant teaching. Even in those early days when one man, one family, one nation, were successively chosen, to be the depositories of divine truth, when, therefore, if ever we might expect to find the redemptive purpose of God disclosed within narrow and local limitations; when unquestionably it was much fettered and restrained by personal promises, and by national and temporary institutions; the divine purpose is for ever overstepping every limit, every transient localisation and restraint, and claiming as its proper share, all the souls that are and shall be." - Salvat. Mund. This admits of easy proof. Take a typical case to show what God's election really means.

Abraham: The Promise

Take the case of ABRAHAM, the father and founder of God's elect people. What was the promise to him? 'That in his seed should all the families of the earth be blessed.' This was of the essence of God's election. And to this effect S. PAUL speaks with perfect clearness. And thoughtful readers will remark that it is precisely the Apostle who lays most stress on the divine sovereignty, who most clearly teaches universal reconciliation.

The promise to ABRAHAM was, S. PAUL tells us, that he should be the heir of the world, Rom. 4:13; words most expressive, and yet without meaning on the common view of election. In other words the Jews, as God's elect, have, as their inheritance, all lands, all peoples. In the same Epistle S. PAUL points out how close the connection is between Israel and the world. Three times over he asserts their very fall to be the riches of the world, and asks if so, what will not the reconciling of Israel be (to the world).

In short, on God's elect people hangs the lot and destiny of mankind -

see Gal. 3: 8, and Acts 3: 21-25; the latter passage is very interesting, for S. PETER there asserts the connection between a universal restoration, and the promise to ABRAHAM, i.e., his election.

The First-Fruits

A further admirable illustration of this may be given (furnished by Holy Scripture) from its teaching as to the "firstfruits," and as to the "firstborn." Israel, as God's elect, is the "firstfruits" - Israel the "firstborn." But the "firstfruits" imply and pledge the whole harvest; the "firstborn" involve and include, in the divine economy, the whole family. Hence the promise that "all Israel shall be saved" implies the world's salvation.

The Little Flock

"The firstborn and firstfruits are the 'few' and the 'little flock;' but these, although 'first delivered from the curse,' have relation to the whole creation, which shall be saved in the appointed times by the firstborn seed, that is by Christ and His body." - Andrew Jukes- It is thus clear that we, so far from denying the election of the few, lay stress on it as essential to God's plan of mercy for all . It becomes indeed a corner stone, so to speak, in the edifice of the world's salvation; for His "elect" are the very means by which our Father designs to bless all His children - designs to work out His plan of universal salvation. "The sovereignty by which God reigns is eternal love." P. STERRY, Rise, Race, &c. "The Lord is King, the earth may be glad thereof." - Ps. xcvii. i.

The Restitution Of All Things & God's Unity

A Being Who Fluctuates Between Tenderness & Wrath?

A few closing remarks are needed here, to indicate the principle that is really at stake in these questions. For that principle is vital, and fundamental. It is no less than the Unity of the Godhead; no less than the first article of the Creed, "I believe in one God the Father Almighty "- in God Who is ONE, not in nature alone, but in purpose and in will - One and Unchanging. In place of this God, the popular creed presents us with a Being Who fluctuates between tenderness and wrath, * One Who has ever-changing plans, and a will that is divided, and baffled. For half His creatures His love is in fact momentary, and His vengeance endless. For the other half, His pity is endless, and His wrath transient.

The Cherished Purpose Of God Defeated?

"The God we have preached has not been the God Who was manifested in His Son Jesus Christ, but another altogether different Being, in Whom we mingle strangely the Siva and the Vishnu." - F. D. MAURICE. This God is not even Lord in His own house; for the worst and feeblest of His creatures can finally defeat His most cherished plan; can paralyze the Cross of Christ. In such a God I cannot see Him, Who is Almighty and unchanging, Whose property is always to have mercy; Whose love, though always punishing sin, never ceases to help the sinner, for "love never fails ;" never to all eternity. Against the popular caricature of God- that caricature which represents eternal love as turning to hate, as soon as the sinner dies; which vainly talks of an Eternal Father, Whose judgments mean salvation in one world, and change to damnation in the next; of eternal love, whose fire purifies and refines in time, and then beyond the grave turns to mere (purposeless) torture. What wonder if unbelief abounds, when we invite it by such teaching?

Against this mass of contradiction stands the view here given of "Death," "Judgment," "Fire," "Election." The old truths remain on a basis firmer than before, in harmony and no more in conflict, because they rest ultimately on the Unity of God - unity of essence and unity of purpose. God's essential unity is destroyed when we assign to Him conflicting actions, as though his Love demanded one course of action, and His Justice another; as though God the Savior were one person, and God the Judge a wholly different one. Or, again, when we blindly teach that, if His judgments now mean salvation, they at the Great Day mean endless damnation. God, I repeat, in His "judgments," in His "fires," in "death," * in "election;" God in time and in eternity is ONE and the same God (Heb. 13: eight), and has, and must have to all eternity, but one unchanging purpose - is and must be for ever God our Savior.

The divine Unity is no merely abstract question: it reveals God's essence and character; it is rooted not in the laws of number, but of spirit and will.

When ZECHARIAH says, "The Lord shall be king over all the earth," he adds, "in that day shall the Lord be ONE, and His name ONE." And S. PAUL, in declaring that God "will have all men to be saved," bases this not on God's love but on His unity, "for there is ONE GOD," He Who is One in All, and All in One, Who will finally bring back His entire creation to that unity from which it started. Thus, elsewhere, S. PAUL contrasts the unconditional unchanging promises of God in the Gospel with the Law, by laying emphasis on this divine unity-" For God is ONE." - Gal. 5:20. (See LIGHTFOOT in loco.) To sever God's action into love and harshness is, says S. GREGORY of Nyssa, but madness, nay, "the madness of babblers!" At the bare idea that God can be really hard or cruel to His enemies (see note on S. Luke vi. 27, ch. viii.), and loving to His friends, he exclaims with a scorn (most rare in his writings)-" Oh, the madness of these babblers ! for if God is unmerciful to His foes, He will not be truly kind even to you His friend." - De orat. 1.

Christ Triumphant

HERE

The Lord ÅIhsou'ß= The Salvation of Jehovah

"Oh, the madness of these babblers, for if God is unmerciful to His foes, He will not be truly kind even to you His friend." -St. Gregory of Nyssa-

[Kratos]

Finelinen,

Thank you for posting this portion of yet another book I need to read completely. Very well stated balance, it would seem, though I must read more. I especially love the emphasis of the "elect" being chosen for the purpose of the salvation of all. Those who are both called and chosen are but arrows in the quiver of our God used for a purpose.

John

[pneuma]

Hi David here is something I wrote a couple of years ago that seems to line up closely with your post.


When I first started to write this I did not realize how big of an article I was starting.

The more I wrote the more scriptures God gave me, sometimes over flooding my mind so at times I felt like saying slow down but was scared to say anything least He stop speaking all together.

There is so much more I could say on the many membered body of Christ then what I wrote here but as it is already quite long I have given only that which I first started to see and will leave the rest for God to reveal as He sees fit either by revelation or though discussion.

God bless.

The many membered body of Christ

Genesis 1:26-28
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

I have often spoken of these scriptures as being a prophesy of Christ and us in Christ.
And I would like to explore this a little further to show how it is speaking of the many membered body of Christ and the bride of this many membered body and how they are made one and replenish the earth and subdue it.


In every body there is a head, neck, shoulders, arms, torso, legs and feet etc.
These help make up the whole of who Christ is.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the head of the body, in whom the fullness of the Godhead dwells. There is nothing lacking of God in him, he is the express image of the Father.

He is the Christ and in him are many members, for the scriptures state expressly that Jesus is the head of the body, who is the church, and as head of the church He gave himself for the salvation of His body.

Colossians 1:17-18
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Ephesians 5:23
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.


Now as Jesus is the head of the body then there must needs be the rest of the body, neck, shoulders, arms, torso, legs and feet etc.
I believe we are the feet of the body of Christ and will go into this in more detail later.

Paul speak of this here


1 Corinthians 12:12-27
12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Christ is a many membered body not just the Head.
Jesus said in Hebrews 10:5 that God had prepared for Him a body.

Hebrews 10:5
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Hebrews go on to say in verses 10, 12 and 13

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Now I know literally speaking we understand this to be the physical body that Jesus had that he gave once for all. But I believe it speaks of much more then His physical body, and that it is speaking of us who are the body of Christ.

Jesus as the head of the body is waiting for the rest of the body to be prepared that we may be glorified together with Him. When we are glorified with Him ( us being the feet ) His enemies are made His footstool.

We see in Romans 8:16-25
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Notice that the whole of creation is still groaning in travail and waiting to be delivered from bondage. Why?
Why was it not delivered out of bondage upon His resurrection?

Because He waits for the manifestation of the rest of His body that the whole body might be glorified together with Him.


1 Corinthians
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

Thus it is by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, this being the mystical body of Christ. The head of the body, Jesus of Nazareth can not say to the feet I have no need of you. For without the feet the body of Christ would not be complete.


21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. 22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: 23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. 24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. 26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.


Now let's look at one particular member of the many membered body of Christ.
The feet, who I believe we represent.

We read in Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Now we all know that the seed in reference is to Christ.
But this is a promise not given just to the head of the body Jesus, but is in reference to the whole mystical body of Christ. For we read in

Romans 16:19-20
19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

We are the feet of Christ that shall shortly bruise Satan under our feet.

Hebrews 2:5-11
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Why is it that we do not see all things yet put under the feet of Christ?
It is because the feet of the body of Christ have not yet been manifested to the world.

The whole world is still groaning in travail waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God who make up the rest of the body of Christ.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

What is it we see right now? We see Jesus.
Thank God we see Jesus the head of the body, for it is the head of the body that tasted death for every man, bring many sons ( the rest of the body ) unto glory. For it is the head that sanctifieth the rest of the body , and the body is one.

One of the greatest revelation of Jesus Christ being a many membered body can be seen when Saul was going to Damascus to persecute the body of Christ.

We read Acts 9:3-6
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

Can we not see by this revelation that Jesus is the head of the body of Christ.
Jesus Himself was already at the right hand of God, yet Jesus says to Saul: Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? Jesus said this because when one member of the body suffers the whole body suffers. Jesus was telling Paul that by persecuting His body he was persecuting Him.

What a revelation Saul received when he first came to know our Lord.
Surely Paul knew what he was saying when he said he was a son born out of due season.
Paul knew he was a member of the body of Christ.

Acts 19:14-15
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

Why would this evil spirit recognize Jesus and Paul and not recognize the chief priest?

Because Jesus is the head of the body and Paul was a member of the body of Christ.

Jesus states in

John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

What are these greater works that the body of Christ are to do?

Surely the greatest work is the salvation of man.

Yet Jesus says that the body of Christ will do greater works then He did.

How can this be possible?

I know too many this is going to sound strange but it is because Jesus as the head did not come to save all mankind but left that greater work for the many membered body of Christ. The head together with the body make up the fullness of Christ.

Please stay with me as scripture will bear out what I said above.

Jesus himself states in

Matthew 15:24
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Yet Gods people today say Jesus ( I am speaking of the head, the man Jesus of Nazareth ) came to save all mankind.

They are both right and wrong in stating this.

Jesus as the head of the body came to save the many membered body, so that the whole body together might save all mankind. For Jesus as the head was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Yet we see upon His resurrection He sent the members of His body to not only the lost sheep of Israel but also unto the Gentile that He might save all mankind, each in their own order.

Now I know some here may misunderstand me here thinking that I am saying Jesus Christ did not come to save all mankind, but that is not what I am saying at all.

Jesus as the head is the saviour of all mankind, for the body cannot do anything unless directed by the head.

Now this principal can be seen in that God is our saviour , yet sent forth His son Jesus Christ to enact His salvation for all men. Jesus as the head of the body of Christ does the same thing, He sends forth His many membered body into the world to bring not all men to salvation but to bring His bride all Israel unto salvation.

The promise to Abraham was two fold.

It was not just in thy seed shall all the families of the earth blessed, but it says IN THEE and in THY SEED shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

We all know that the seed spoken of is Christ.

I believe this is spoken of the whole body of Christ , head to foot so to speak.

But who is the IN THEE that is spoken of as part of this promise?

IN THEE is speaking of the bride of Christ, natural Israel.

Natural Israel is always spoken of as a woman, and that woman is the bride of Christ.

The many membered body of Christ will sit on twelve thrones in the regeneration judging the twelve tribes of Israel ( the bride )

Through this judgment , which is righteous judgment for the body only judges that which the head tells it to judge, the bride is made ready for her marriage to Christ.

Once this marriage takes place male and female become one body ( male and female created he them ) and by this union is ushered in the restitution of all things.

Where God will be all in all.

The order of the call.

Jesus the head calls His body.

The whole body together calls the bride.

The male and female become one body and together usher in the restitution of all things.


Do we not see here the fulfillment of the prophesy given in

Genesis 1:26-28
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


It is only when Christ and the bride are made one that the earth will be REPLENISHED and SUBDUED.

[CHB]

Very good Pneuma.  :thumbsup:

CHB

[Kratos]

Pneuma,

I am with you 99% anyway. I am not saying I am right and you are wrong, but I still struggle anytime we continue to see a difference between those who are saved who are Jews and those who are saved who are not. It seems to re-erect the middle wall of partition that has been torn down in Christ. Other than that small thing (?), loved it.

John

[FineLinen]

Excellent, Pneuma. The writer to the Hebrews speaks of the One who dwells in the midst of sons and there hymns the Father's praise. And so the King in the midst of kings, and the Lord in the midst of Lords draws each of us into Himself.  The thrust of the Spirit of Christ is to join Him "where I am." This is indeed a great mystery regarding the Christ and His Church. The beginning of the revelation says...

And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And having turned I saw seven golden candlesticks; and in the midst of the candlesticks one like unto a son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about at the breasts with a golden girdle. And his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; and his feet like unto burnished brass, as if it had been refined in a furnace; and his voice as the voice of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth proceeded a sharp two-edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as one dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying, Fear not; I am the first and the last, and the Living one; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.

The Son of God dwells in the midst of the golden candlesticks, His glory is manifested from the golden candlesticks. Did you ever notice this regarding Jehovah Tsidkenu?

"The days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a righteous Branch spring from David's line, a king who shall rule wisely, maintaining law and justice in the land.... This is the name given to him: The Lord is our righteousness."

And this

"I will make a righteous Branch of David spring up....and this shall be her name: the Lord our righteousness."

This is his name: Jehovah Tsidkenu >>>>>>>This is her name: Jehovah Tsidkenu.

[FineLinen]

Abraham's Seed Ministering To Those "Out of the way."

But (and this concerns us) the Church is also Abraham's seed; for, as St. Paul says, "If you be Christ's you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal. 3:29) To the Church therefore belongs the same promise, as first-fruits with Christ, not to be blessed only, but to be a blessing, in its own heavenly and spiritual sphere. For if the Jew on earth shall be a "kingdom of priests," what is our hope but to be heavenly "kings and priests," (Rev. 1:6,10) as "kings," for the Lord shall say, "Be thou over five cities," to rule and order in the coming age what requires order; not only with Christ to "judge the world," (1 Cor. 6:2) but to be "equal unto the angels" and to "judge angels;" as "priests," for a priest is "for those out of the way," (Heb. 5:2) to minister to those who yet are out of the way. This is the Church's calling, to do Christ's works, as He said, "He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;" with Him to be both prophet, priest and king, and this, not here only in these bodies of humiliation, but when changed in His presence to bear His image and do His works with Him.

Fuller Dimensions Of Service

Christ barely entered on His priestly work till He had passed through death and judgment; (Heb. 4:14; 7:15-17; 8:4,6) so with those who are Christ's, their death and resurrection shall only introduce them to fuller and wider service to lost ones, over whom the Lord shall set them as priests and kings, until all things are restored and reconciled unto Him. It is, alas, too true that of the Church's sons, some like Esau shall sell their birthright for some present good thing, and that in this age as in the last some of the children of the kingdom shall be cast out, while others from the east and from the west press in and win the crown and kingdom; yet an elect first-born shall surely be preserved, who are sealed to this pre-eminence, to be priests to God and rulers of their brethren. To whom, I ask, shall the Church after death be priests? Shall it be to that great mass of our fellow men, who have departed hence in ignorance? Shall it be to "spirits in prison," such as those to whom after His death Christ Himself once preached:.....

NOTE:

1 Peter 3:18-20. This passage, I know, is called "difficult," that is, it is one which it is hard and even impossible fairly to reconcile with the views called Orthodox. The words, however, are not difficult. They distinctly assert that our Lord went and preached to the spirits in prison, who once had been disobedient in the days of Noah. The "difficulty" is the Protestant orthodoxy has decided that there can be no message of mercy to any after death. Protestant commentators therefore have attempted to evade the plain statements of this Scripture, and their forced and unnatural interpretations show how very strong the passage is against them. Any one who wishes to see a summary of these interpretations may find them collected in Alfred's Greek Testament, in loco. His own comment is as follows;--"I understand these words to say, that our Lord, in his disembodied state, did go to the place of detention of departed spirits, and did there announce His work of redemption, preach salvation, in fact, to the disembodied spirits of those who refused to obey the voice of God, when the judgement of the flood was hanging over them." The fact, that in the Prayer-book these verses are appointed to be read as the Epistle for Easter Even, that is for the day after the crucifixion, and before the resurrection of our Lord, shows plainly enough the judgment of the English Church as to the true sense and interpretation of this passage. The Early Fathers, almost without exception, understand it to speak of Christ's descent into Hades.

....Shall not His saints, made like Him, do the same works, still following Him, and with Him being priests to God? Will not their glory be to rule and feed and enlighten and clothe those who are committed to them, even as Christ has fed and clothed them? For He is "King of kings and Lord of lords," (1 Tim. 6:15) words which indicate the many kings and rulers under Him, of whom He is Head, and whom He makes heads to others.

The Lamb Redeems The Ass

I should perhaps be going beyond my measure were I to follow in detail all that the law says further as to the first-fruits and the first-born; but I may add here, that this same truth, that the first-blessed must save others, is set forth, though in a slightly different form, in the kindred law of redemption touching the firstlings of beasts, whether clean or unclean. The lamb redeems the ass. (Exodus 8:12,13) So it must be. The clean are called, and content, to be sacrifices. For the law of redemption, which is the law of love, if this, that they who are first redeemed and blessed must bless others. And this is their joy, to be like Christ, that is to be channels of blessing to viler, weaker souls. For all higher and elder beings serve the lower and younger. The first-born therefore must serve and save others. Their calling is to be, like Christ, channels of blessing and life to thousands of later-born.

His Glorious Reach Of Redemption

Such glories are in store, to be revealed when the two leavened cakes of first-fruits, then completed, shall together be offered up, in that great coming Pentecost, of which the fiery tongues of old, and the rushing wind, in the upper room were but the type and earnest; when the elect, Christ's mystic body, being raised with Him, the Head not born alone, but all the members with it, the Spirit shall be poured out upon all flesh, and, the first-fruits being safe, the harvest, already sanctified by the first-fruits, shall all begin to be gathered in. Oh glorious day, when our Lord and Head shall give of His treasure to His first-born, that they may with Him redeem all lands and all brethren; (Lev. 25:25, 47,48) when with Him they shall judge their captive brethren, who through their unbelief have lost their own inheritance. Then shall the laver be multiplied into "ten lavers," (compare Exod. 30:18, which speaks of the wilderness, with 1 Kings 7:38,39 which describes the far larger provision made for cleansing in the glorious reign of the Man of Peace, the true Son of David.) till the water of life become a "sea of crystal," large enough even for Babylon the great to sink into it, and to be found no more at all for ever. Then shall the elect "run to and fro as sparks among the stubble;" (Wisdom 3:7,8) and as all sparks or seeds of light, though they may come forth at long intervals from one another, are yet congenial, if they have come out of a common root,--as they can not only mingle rays with rays and embrace each other, but in virtue of a common nature have the same power of consuming and purifying that they come in contact with,--so shall Christ's members judge the world with Him, and consume the evil with that same fire which Christ came to cast into the earth, and with which He is yet pledged to baptize all nations. For our Lord, who gave Himself, with Himself will give us all things, grudging His children nothing of that inheritance He has obtained for them.


HERE

[pneuma]

Very good Pneuma.  :thumbsup:

CHB

Thanks sis

[pneuma]

"The days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a righteous Branch spring from David's line, a king who shall rule wisely, maintaining law and justice in the land.... This is the name given to him: The Lord is our righteousness."

And this

"I will make a righteous Branch of David spring up....and this shall be her name: the Lord our righteousness."

Nope never noticed that before, but it fits.
Thanks

[pneuma]

Pneuma,

I am with you 99% anyway. I am not saying I am right and you are wrong, but I still struggle anytime we continue to see a difference between those who are saved who are Jews and those who are saved who are not. It seems to re-erect the middle wall of partition that has been torn down in Christ. Other than that small thing (?), loved it.

John

John if you agree with 99% of what I wrote I won't sweat the 1% brother.

But would like to know why you see what I said seems to re-erect the middle wall of partition? It may be just the way I word things or it may be what we think the middle wall of partiton is.

[Kratos]

Pneuma,

The 1% (which I agree is nothing compared to the 99%) is seen by what you wrote here.

"The promise to Abraham was two fold.

It was not just in thy seed shall all the families of the earth blessed, but it says IN THEE and in THY SEED shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

We all know that the seed spoken of is Christ.

I believe this is spoken of the whole body of Christ , head to foot so to speak.

But who is the IN THEE that is spoken of as part of this promise?

IN THEE is speaking of the bride of Christ, natural Israel.

Natural Israel is always spoken of as a woman, and that woman is the bride of Christ."

My understanding of the middle wall was a distinction between Jew and Gentile in Christ. I believe that this wall has been abolished and there is no more natural Israel in God's mind. We are commanded to no more know anyone after the flesh, though we once knew Christ this way, and I do not think that God does something different than we are commanded to do.

The "thee" in this passage refers to Abraham and the "thy seed" refers to all who are in Christ whether Jew or Greek. I do not make any distinction between the Church who are naturally of the other nations and the Church which are naturally Jews. To me, because this middle wall of separation has been abolished, there is no difference in place or prophecy between a born again Jew and a born again Irishman and a born again Italian. They are all the same. So they are either all His Body or all His Bride or both. One cannot be the Body and the other the Bride if there is no longer any separation between them. IMO

John

[pneuma]

John

I agree everyone is one in Christ and that there is no male or female.

The difference here being not everyone is in Christ yet.

You do agree there is an order to the call correct?

Christ, the firstfriuts etc.

All I was doing was showing the order of that call.

Christ
Firstfruits
Bride
The restitution of all things
God all in all.

Anyway like I said I won't sweat the 1%. brother

[Kratos]

Pneuma,

I absolutely do believe in an order of the call. I just tend to pull back from natural Israel being different from the church. Maybe I am misunderstanding your point. But loke you said, it is only 1% anyway. I see the progression as Jesus, the first fruits (made up of all of the Overcoming saints whether Jew or Greek), and the rest of humanity. Probably semantics, but I work with a Messianic believer who always fights to retain a distinction between natural and spiritual Israel which I do not see.

Blessings,

John

[BenJasher]

Kratos;

God ain't done with natural, racial, genetic Israel just yet. Not by a long way. But our dear brother Paul, who had a way of saying things many find hard to comprehend, and many more only think they understand, said this in a moment of prophetic lucidity:

All Israel will be saved...

The Church of today is different from natural Israel. [At least it is reckoned differently.]The New Testament Church was born and bred in the "Times of the Gentiles when Jerusalem is to be trodden underfoot..." This NT Church is referred to in the scriptures as the "Body of Christ" and is never referred to as the "Bride of Christ." We are His body, and as He is, so are we in this age. {Let the importance of that thought get hold of you!}

There are things here I am not going to say right now. This needs to be short. But let me finish...

Israel; natural, genetic Israel, the one I said God wasn't finished with yet, is always His Bride in the scripture. Who did God marry? Who did God divorce? Natural, Racial Israel. One of the results of the fact that Jesus died on the Cross is that now He can legally re-marry His ex-wife. But the time for that is not yet.

And Paul, in a moment of prophetic lucidity, wished to God that he could die and be consigned to hell if only his brethren could be saved. And then he proceeded to tell us of a dispensational allotment of time when Israel would be saved, and the glory to come upon the world as a result.

I don't want to labor a lengthy amount of time on this subject. I don't really even want to change your mind on your 1% thing with Pneuma. Just planting a seed to see if it takes root.

[arcticmonster2003]

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[CHB]

Hi Ben,

Long time no see.  :bigGrin:

This NT Church is referred to in the scriptures as the "Body of Christ" and is never referred to as the "Bride of Christ." We are His body, and as He is, so are we in this age

Ben, this is the way I see it also.

CHB

[Kratos]

Ben,

The whole "all Israel will be saved" thing holds water among rapture Christians who have made this time into the 70th week of Daniel to keep natural Israel as a special class to God. However, I am sure that you realize that this is a UR forum and we believe all everybody will be saved. So once again, there is no difference between Jew or Greek as God is no respector of persons. God used Israel as a type of the church, but the type is no longer relevent now that the church age has come.

Blessings,
John

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: He follows the pattern spiritually in at least one way.....He still appears first to the Jews (those that have had their hearts circumcised to whatever degree), and then to the Gentiles (those that have not been circumcised in that area of their heart). This is the principle for revelation coming forth. It's ALL about Him, for He does the circumcising, and the revealing, and the lack thereof, because no man can come (even one inch) to the Father, unless the Father call Him. Blessings to all.....

[Kratos]

Card,
I totally agree as long as the "Jew" you are talking about is one of the heart and not of the flesh. I know this is what you are saying, but Judaizers continue to try to make God a respector of natural flesh even though He commands us to no longer know "any man" after the flesh.

To me, this is one of those "nip it in the bud" kind of things before it grows to a full tree where people are trying to live Torah and end up fallen from grace because what Christ did becomes of no value to us if we again come under law when it comes to our justification before God.

Gal 5:1  Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2  Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

John

[BenJasher]

Kratos;

believing that we are still under the law is not the same thing as believing their is an eschatological difference between Israelites and Gentiles.

Apples and Oranges. Water and oil.

[Kratos]

Ben,

Not wanting to fight with you, but I am only speaking from experience. I personally know many Christians who started believing that Jews still have a covenant with God through the Law,  and then, "found out" that they had Jewish blood in their past, and then, started keeping Torah in order to be more blessed by God.

The Catholic church has received commands by their Pope that they should no longer try to evangelize Jews as they already have a covenant with God equal to our own. John Hagee has upheld the same belief that after the rapture God will again deal with Jews according to Torah in the newly rebuilt Temple.

Finally, Christian leaders like Ken Copeland have recenty receive Rabbis like Messner (sp) from Colorado saying that we need to sit under them to learn the Torah so we can better know how to live lives pleasing to God and be more blessed in our health and finances for it.

You can see how one thing leads to another. I will just stick with the Bible which says there is no longer any Jew or Greek as God has pulled down the difference between us through Jesus Christ. There is only One Name under Heaven by which all men must be saved. I would no more sit under the teachings of a Rabbi as I would under a Buddist monk or a Moslem Imman. Each are lost men with nothing to teach a believer who has been born again.

John

[BenJasher]

Hi Ben,

Long time no see.  :bigGrin:

This NT Church is referred to in the scriptures as the "Body of Christ" and is never referred to as the "Bride of Christ." We are His body, and as He is, so are we in this age

Ben, this is the way I see it also.

CHB

How are you Charlotte? At least I believe that you are my old friend Charlotte from another forum. It has been a long while since I last had the pleasure of your fellowship. Whatever happened to Shana?

[arcticmonster2003]

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[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I believe all Israel shall be saved too, but all Israel to me is different than the patch of land in the middle east. All Israel was allowed into the outer court, along with women and strangers, which means all is all. All were concluded under the first covenant and it's judgments, that He might have mercy on all. The new covenant put all into the outer court realm, because the headship has changed. The baptism in the Spirit is the only thing that changes that, bringing them into the now spiritual priesthood.

I remember seeing Arthur Blessit on TV once, and he was talking about how God told him to go from Israel to Palestine or Egypt (can't remember which), carrying that huge cross. He told the Lord, "Lord, how can I? I won't be able to get over the walls, they'll shoot me."

The Lord spoke to him, "Walls? What walls? They're all in your mind." And he went. Blessings to all....

[Kratos]

If we see "all Israel" in this context as all who are with natural Israel in the outer court, I agree that all will be saved the same way by experiencing first Pentecost and then Tabernacles. However, I think they will all come one at a time as we did. I do not see a moment when the whole natural nation of Israel will embrace Christ like Constantine did with the Roman Empire. Natural nations do not get saved and there are no Christian nations. There are just nations with Christians living in them is all.

John