Christ's death

[Lefein]

Yet, God who has no body in the old testament is ascribed as expressing a soul.

We are made in his image, our souls are likewise.  It makes no sense that the soul of a person depends on the body in light of Samuel, and God.

[thinktank]

I think God does have a soul the one that sits on the throne, not the maifestations, i.e the burning bush

but Jesus incarnate had a soul.

[Molly]

I think God does have a soul the one that sits on the throne, not the maifestations, i.e the burning bush

but Jesus incarnate had a soul.

And, Jesus lives!


Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore [eis aion aion], Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

--Rev 1

[micah7:9]

Quote from: thinktank on Today at 06:40:04 AM
I think God does have a soul the one that sits on the throne, not the maifestations, i.e the burning bush

but Jesus incarnate had a soul. 

Correct me if this is wrong, when Jesus was made Heb.2:9 " and him who was made some little less" Rom 8:3 "sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh" Php 2:7 " being made in the likeness of men" didnt Jesus BECOME a living soul? A breathing/living creature?
1Co 15:45  so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit,
Did Jesus not become (in likeness) that " first man Adam became a living creature" and if so, does that make Him a living soul, not A SOUL?
Molly:
And, Jesus lives!    YES HE DOES!Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore [eis aion aion], Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

--Rev 1
Was it not, after His death and resurrection, that we see 1Co 15:45  ..."the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit," ?

My thoughts and  :2c:

[Molly]

17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life [psuche], that I might take it again.

18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

--John 10


"life"

G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.


He lays his [mortal] soul down for us and he picks it up again.  He has the power [exousia] to do this.


John 10:11
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life [psuche] for the sheep.

[thinktank]

Isaiah 42


42Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking [1] flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, [2] till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.


I think this is God speaking here and says behold my servant, who I presume to  be Jesus whom my soul delighteth. So here God is saying his soul delights, even before Jesus has been sent.
Furthermore it seems this God speaking is not the word, but the father because he said he upholds his servant. So even the father has a soul it seems from this verse.


The above verse also says that the breath of life in Genesis is different to the spirit of man within. This elaborates more on what I said about God making man in his image, that the breath is different to the spirit.

The breath seems to be connected to the soul part of man

Here again we have a spirit man and also the breath of life that gives life.
Job 33
4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life. 5 If thou canst answer me, set thy words in order before me, stand up. 6 Behold, I am according to thy wish [2] in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay

spirit, image of God, plus breath soul, plus clay body.

Im still uncertain if the soul can live after death, for the following scripture seems to indicate that we do but others I have seen do not, the others seem to indicate that a living soul = living blood but if the father has a soul who does not have blood, the maybe its possible to have a soul that is not deemed as living, for it is no longer in the land of the living.

kings 17
21 And he stretched [6] himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the Lord, and said, O Lord my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. 22 And the Lord heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived. 23 And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth. 24 And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the Lord in thy mouth is truth.

The soul returns in this scripture.

So perhaps man has a spirit and soul, so that when they die, they are 2 ghosts, one is the spirit man and one is the soul man, but when in a body the soul and spirit are called a living soul.
:2c:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Once again, with feeling..... :angelharp:  my  :2c:.....: :winkgrin: A living soul, is a soul that has life, the life of the spirit.  Without that, the soul is "dead", ie. let the dead bury the dead. The soul cannot receive more life from God without it first coming thru the spirit given man; the result of that was shown in the garden, when Eve, metaphor for the soul of man, tried to obtain something without going thru Adam, ie. the metaphor for the spirit , her head.

Same pattern as when the woman, the church, tries to obtain something thru their own works, instead of relying on the Spirit of God. This is evidenced in the dead, ie. LIFE-less doctrines propagated thru so many of them.

The first Adam was a soul that RECEIVED life, just like a woman that receives seed; the last Adam is a life-GIVING Spirit, just like a man that gives seed. Truly is it better to give than to receive.  :winkgrin:  It's a picture of the lesser and greater glory.

A womb-man is necessary to be created first for the propagation of life, just as the creation that was created (IN DARKNESS) was needed to make the invisible Seed visible. God builds a house, then inhabits it. This principle is why we don't "see" Eve until God brings her out from that which she was hidden in, and she is given form.

Same principle as why Joseph was going to put Mary away, hiding her, that she not be put to open shame. He was doing what he saw his Head do in righteousness of Spirit. And same principle for why the feminine aspect of God is hidden, our mother, because He will not allow her to be put to open shame. Without the SPIRIT, you cannot see the kingdom of God, ie. New Jerusalem, our MOTHER.

This is even witnessed in the first line of Genesis. Beginning there also means "firstfruits", so reading now we get, "In the firstfruits, God created the heaven (spirit) and the earth (soul)."

Earth there also has a meaning of Sheol, the grave, or underworld, land without return. This is why the soul was created first, out of this "place", because the addition of the spirit repeats the principle of resurrection, ie. and he BECAME a LIVING soul, a soul that has RECEIVED (not IS) the lifespark of the Spirit.

This is witnessed by the letter of the Word/law that KILLETH, but the Spirit giveth life. The soul is part of the creation that is in death, and must receive life to form the Son. Blessings....

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: Once again, with feeling..... :angelharp:  my  :2c:.....: :winkgrin: A living soul, is a soul that has life, the life of the spirit.  Without that, the soul is "dead", ie. let the dead bury the dead. The soul cannot receive more life from God without it first coming thru the spirit given man; the result of that was shown in the garden, when Eve, metaphor for the soul of man, tried to obtain something without going thru Adam, ie. the metaphor for the spirit , her head.

Same pattern as when the woman, the church, tries to obtain something thru their own works, instead of relying on the Spirit of God. This is evidenced in the dead, ie. LIFE-less doctrines propagated thru so many of them.

The first Adam was a soul that RECEIVED life, just like a woman that receives seed; the last Adam is a life-GIVING Spirit, just like a man that gives seed. Truly is it better to give than to receive.  :winkgrin:  It's a picture of the lesser and greater glory.

A womb-man is necessary to be created first for the propagation of life, just as the creation that was created (IN DARKNESS) was needed to make the invisible Seed visible. God builds a house, then inhabits it. This principle is why we don't "see" Eve until God brings her out from that which she was hidden in, and she is given form.

Same principle as why Joseph was going to put Mary away, hiding her, that she not be put to open shame. He was doing what he saw his Head do in righteousness of Spirit. And same principle for why the feminine aspect of God is hidden, our mother, because He will not allow her to be put to open shame. Without the SPIRIT, you cannot see the kingdom of God, ie. New Jerusalem, our MOTHER.

This is even witnessed in the first line of Genesis. Beginning there also means "firstfruits", so reading now we get, "In the firstfruits, God created the heaven (spirit) and the earth (soul)."

Earth there also has a meaning of Sheol, the grave, or underworld, land without return. This is why the soul was created first, out of this "place", because the addition of the spirit repeats the principle of resurrection, ie. and he BECAME a LIVING soul, a soul that has RECEIVED (not IS) the lifespark of the Spirit.

This is witnessed by the letter of the Word/law that KILLETH, but the Spirit giveth life. The soul is part of the creation that is in death, and must receive life to form the Son. Blessings....

Thoughts and interpretion thats what were here for :bigGrin:

[Lefein]

Pierac: So you'll deny the whole Old Testament, and God's nature pre-incarnation in order to support your own tradition...

I don't want your wisdom of pretense.

I'll repeat it again; God in the Old Testament is said to be "not a man" - he is also omnipresent, that means that God (The Father) is not limited by the constraints of a finite body.  If you can prove otherwise...have at it.

God is Spirit.

God is omnipresent.

God expresses a soul.

God (Old Testament) is not a man.

God (Old Testament) does not have a body, or a dwelling in which he is contained, or must dwell in order to be a "living soul"; IE: he is not a finite man who exists in a body of dust.

God made us in his image, likeness.

God is spirit, expresses a soul, is rational, has emotions, a mind, sentience, etc; these are certainly a great part of the image of God.  The body is a vessel, a temple, a covering, a tent, a house, a dwelling...But the Spirit and soul expressed are the Being.

Man became a living soul upon the introduction of The Breath not the body.  The breath is the root of living, not the body.  The body was formed as a dwelling, not a dependency for existing.  If it were a dependency for existence - Samuel would not, and could never have been raised up by the medium at Endor, he'd of been completely gone, non-existent, the memory of a piece of rock (rocks don't have memories).  Yet we find him talking in the scriptures to Saul...Are the scriptures in error?  No.

Nephesh comes from Naphash - both of which carry the idea of Breath, not dust.

Psyche comes from Psucho - which also carries the idea of Breath, not dust.

If God's soul is not dependent on a body to exist, and etymologically it is not even implied, and the verse regarding Samuel shows a sentient, perceiving, conversative, disembodied being - then we can safely, and legitimately conclude that the soul is not dependent on "the body" to exist.

I'll thank you not to all caps at me either, you are displeasing and your reaction has not given you any iota of respect, or legitimacy.  Good day to you sir, and may you take your own advice.

Please, We have no idea what God ascribes!

Yes we certainly CAN know what God expresses, in terms of my statement, if you wouldn't jump to weird conclusions...

The Bible says often, and you can look it up, I trust you are intelligent, and mobile enough: "My soul"  And it is God who is speaking.  Yes, we can beyond a doubt know that God is ascribed as expressing a soul.  Unless you want to deny the scriptures...?

Stop pretending you have all the answers! Your just like the rest of us, having no idea!

You've shown your true intent, your true colours with this statement.  They are ugly colours, expressing ugly intent, from an ugly spirit.

___ ___ ___

God is not some unknowable deist clock maker way off on the rim of the universe; he is a personal, recognisable, intimate, knowable (as far as we can gather) god who speaks to us constantly!  Do not say that we cannot learn the nature of God, when that is a part of the whole purpose to begin with.  We will know, as we are known.  And behold the Kingdom of God is nigh and within us!  Our knowing of God, and journey to greater understanding begins now.  Do not dare deny it with your strange contempt...this ugliness that you have just expressed.  I will have none of your bread!  It is bitter bread, and I have had more than my fair share of eating bitter bread in my lifetime to have you come and put it on my table.

Stand aside Pierac, you will not hinder me from knowing my God, and expressing that walk.

[micah7:9]

WOW!

[Cardinal]

[Thoughts and interpretion thats what were here for :bigGrin:

:cloud9: Amen  :thumbsup:

[Beloved Servant]

Pierac: So you'll deny the whole Old Testament, and God's nature pre-incarnation in order to support your own tradition...

I don't want your wisdom of pretense.

I'll repeat it again; God in the Old Testament is said to be "not a man" - he is also omnipresent, that means that God (The Father) is not limited by the constraints of a finite body.  If you can prove otherwise...have at it.

God is Spirit.

God is omnipresent.

God expresses a soul.

God (Old Testament) is not a man.

God (Old Testament) does not have a body, or a dwelling in which he is contained, or must dwell in order to be a "living soul"; IE: he is not a finite man who exists in a body of dust.

God made us in his image, likeness.

God is spirit, expresses a soul, is rational, has emotions, a mind, sentience, etc; these are certainly a great part of the image of God.  The body is a vessel, a temple, a covering, a tent, a house, a dwelling...But the Spirit and soul expressed are the Being.

Man became a living soul upon the introduction of The Breath not the body.  The breath is the root of living, not the body.  The body was formed as a dwelling, not a dependency for existing.  If it were a dependency for existence - Samuel would not, and could never have been raised up by the medium at Endor, he'd of been completely gone, non-existent, the memory of a piece of rock (rocks don't have memories).  Yet we find him talking in the scriptures to Saul...Are the scriptures in error?  No.

Nephesh comes from Naphash - both of which carry the idea of Breath, not dust.

Psyche comes from Psucho - which also carries the idea of Breath, not dust.

If God's soul is not dependent on a body to exist, and etymologically it is not even implied, and the verse regarding Samuel shows a sentient, perceiving, conversative, disembodied being - then we can safely, and legitimately conclude that the soul is not dependent on "the body" to exist.

I'll thank you not to all caps at me either, you are displeasing and your reaction has not given you any iota of respect, or legitimacy.  Good day to you sir, and may you take your own advice.

Please, We have no idea what God ascribes!

Yes we certainly CAN know what God expresses, in terms of my statement, if you wouldn't jump to weird conclusions...

The Bible says often, and you can look it up, I trust you are intelligent, and mobile enough: "My soul"  And it is God who is speaking.  Yes, we can beyond a doubt know that God is ascribed as expressing a soul.  Unless you want to deny the scriptures...?

Stop pretending you have all the answers! Your just like the rest of us, having no idea!

You've shown your true intent, your true colours with this statement.  They are ugly colours, expressing ugly intent, from an ugly spirit.

___ ___ ___

God is not some unknowable deist clock maker way off on the rim of the universe; he is a personal, recognisable, intimate, knowable (as far as we can gather) god who speaks to us constantly!  Do not say that we cannot learn the nature of God, when that is a part of the whole purpose to begin with.  We will know, as we are known.  And behold the Kingdom of God is nigh and within us!  Our knowing of God, and journey to greater understanding begins now.  Do not dare deny it with your strange contempt...this ugliness that you have just expressed.  I will have none of your bread!  It is bitter bread, and I have had more than my fair share of eating bitter bread in my lifetime to have you come and put it on my table.

Stand aside Pierac, you will not hinder me from knowing my God, and expressing that walk.

You can fear no man separating you from the love of God.

[Molly]

A living soul, is a soul that has life, the life of the spirit.  Without that, the soul is "dead", ie. let the dead bury the dead. The soul cannot receive more life from God without it first coming thru the spirit given man; the result of that was shown in the garden, when Eve, metaphor for the soul of man, tried to obtain something without going thru Adam, ie. the metaphor for the spirit , her head.

The whole post was great, but I want to talk some more about this--because the theory being put forth is that the soul is somehow tied to the body and dies with the body.

Adam's body was formed by God before God breathed into him. Does he have a soul, yet?  People want to tie the soul to the body.  But, like you said, it is not until God breathes into him that he becomes a 'living soul.' Even though he had a body before that, --so was he a dead soul before he received the breath of God?

Is this why Adam was not deceived--because he was a living soul?
God separates soul [Eve] from that Spirit, and she is the one who is deceived.


We see Jesus pointing to people who are alive and calling them 'dead'--Let the dead bury their dead.  What does he mean by that?  They who are doing the burying are dead souls?   

But,  my 'dead' are alive.  And, the soul can live without this body of dust.


Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

--2 Cor 12:2

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, I'm of the opinion from what I've seen in the Word, that Adam was not THIS body of dust YET because until the disobedience, I think he dwelled in the heavenly realms, and the dust he was originally made from was like "gold dust" ie. a heavenly body.

This revelation was working on me this morning as I awoke. The tabernacle shows a progression beginning with the fallen state (outer court of animal skins/He put skins on them), BUT the end is shown as a new man which is composed of gold (speaks of the higher nature of God and His pre-fall creation), within and WITHOUT, which is shown in the construction of the Ark made of craptim wood (speaks of humanity).

The two coverings of gold represent the anointing within and without, accompanied by the glory cloud as the covering over the new creation man the Ark represents. Since we know that we were one with Him from the beginning, that means the END (Holy of Holies) is really our beginning!

This is further witnessed (to me at least) in that the ephod was made of GOLD, and covered the heart (soul) of man. We know that Adam was made a High Priest of God, we know Lucifer was a man who had every precious stone for his covering.

The soul is the vessel for the spirit (both good and bad) to express it's nature thru, ie. birth something. Because it is like a womb, it reproduces whatever seed is planted in it. He's had me on some deeper things regarding this lately, but I've not done the "homework" necessary yet to bring it forth. Blessings....

[Molly]

Since we know that we were one with Him from the beginning, that means the END (Holy of Holies) is really our beginning!

wow! 


Colossians 1:27
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.


...which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
--Luke 3

[micah7:9]

"Since we know that we were one with Him from the beginning?" How is this?

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: Yes, I'm of the opinion from what I've seen in the Word, that Adam was not THIS body of dust YET because until the disobedience, I think he dwelled in the heavenly realms, and the dust he was originally made from was like "gold dust" ie. a heavenly body.

This revelation was working on me this morning as I awoke. The tabernacle shows a progression beginning with the fallen state (outer court of animal skins/He put skins on them), BUT the end is shown as a new man which is composed of gold (speaks of the higher nature of God and His pre-fall creation), within and WITHOUT, which is shown in the construction of the Ark made of craptim wood (speaks of humanity).

The two coverings of gold represent the anointing within and without, accompanied by the glory cloud as the covering over the new creation man the Ark represents. Since we know that we were one with Him from the beginning, that means the END (Holy of Holies) is really our beginning!

This is further witnessed (to me at least) in that the ephod was made of GOLD, and covered the heart (soul) of man. We know that Adam was made a High Priest of God, we know Lucifer was a man who had every precious stone for his covering.

The soul is the vessel for the spirit (both good and bad) to express it's nature thru, ie. birth something. Because it is like a womb, it reproduces whatever seed is planted in it. He's had me on some deeper things regarding this lately, but I've not done the "homework" necessary yet to bring it forth. Blessings....

I am glad you said opinion, at the onset

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, when I say "gold dust" obviously I don't mean literal gold dust. I have seen the glorified body and it looked like cells of living gold, is all I can use to explain it. Since dust and cloud is the same, and since we are cells of His body, it makes perfect sense. Now as for the other.....check it out.....

Hosea 5:15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence , and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early .

Our offense is that our ways are not His ways. We are to seek His face (nature).

Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up . 2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. 3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth

You can't return to a place you've never been before.

Luke 13:31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. 32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected .

A day is as a 1000 years. It's been 2000 or two days since Jesus walked the earth. He said in the third day He would be perfected. He was already perfect, but perfect also means completed, ie. the Head and the body made one, which is why He said He had no where to lay His head. Our Head went ahead of us 2000 years, just as the Ark of the Covenant went ahead of the Israelites 2000 cubits, that where He is we may be also. He desires a body that will follow Him wheresoever the Lamb goest, and the Lamb went into the Holy of Holies. He tore us (broken when we were lowered from our first estate) and He will bind us up (make us whole again in Him). Blessings....

[Lefein]

Now to answer you.

John 3:6  "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God.  To even see the kingdom of God you must be born again from above.

Joh 3:8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I believe friend, you are taking the verse you presented out of context.

Jesus is not talking about the soul being dependent on the body (this current conversation) he is talking about the nature of the Kingdom of God, and how to experience it, and live in it, and the prerequisite for entering it.

The full context of the verse; A conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus concerning the Kingdom of God.

(Joh 3:3)  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(Joh 3:4)  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

(Joh 3:5)  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(Joh 3:6)  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

(Joh 3:7)  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

(Joh 3:8)  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The same verses in the CLV version.

(Joh 3:3)  Jesus answered and said to him, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you, If anyone should not be begotten anew, he can not perceive the kingdom of God."

(Joh 3:4)  Nicodemus is saying to him, "How can a man, being a veteran, be begotten? He can not be entering into the womb of his mother a second time and be begotten!"

(Joh 3:5)  Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you, If anyone should not be begotten of water and of spirit, he can not be entering into the kingdom of God."

(Joh 3:6)  That which is begotten by the flesh is flesh, and that which is begotten by the spirit is spirit."

(Joh 3:7)  You should not be marveling that I said to you, 'You must be begotten anew.'"

(Joh 3:8)  The blast is blowing where it wills, and the sound of it you are hearing, but you are not aware whence it is coming and where it is going. Thus is everyone who is begotten by the water and the spirit."

The Greek when speaking of "born again/anew" uses the word;  Anothen, which translates to up-place, or anew, or above.

So yes, that which is born of flesh is flesh, because that which is born of flesh is a child of Adam (sinner), rather than a born from above child of God (saved).

The verse is talking about people inside, and outside of the kingdom of God.  This thread is about the Soul (currently, the original topic is the death of Christ).

In other words...you're off in left field, and off topic.  We apparently aren't even having the same conversation.

I suppose it is not God's purpose to inspire me to take my own vengeance.  That is his job.

My doctrine?  I have ample evidence of the Jesus = God incarnate debate if that is your issue...But I am not going to argue this forbidden subject with you.  As it stands, you call my doctrine false, and you set your own ideas up as superior, while telling me;

Don't call the doctrine I believe in false, if you are going to A) Not prove it, B) tell me before hand to not pretend that I know it all...which I never did anyway...Or C) Not even tell me what "doctrine" of mine is "false".

Let's look at one of the stories in the Old Testament. In the story of Moses and the burning bush in Exodus 3, "who" is it who appears to Moses and talked to him? The vast majority in the Church, of course would say... it was God himself, Yahweh, who spoke to Moses. After all, the text states that "'God' called to him from the midst of the bush and 'said', 'Moses, Moses!'" (v4).

I never denied this. 

Verse 6 is even more convincing when the same speaker says, "'I am' the 'God' of your father, 'the God' of Abraham, 'the God' of Isaac, and 'the God' of Jacob.' Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at 'God'." Surely it was Jehovah God himself who appear to Moses and who personally spoke?

What do you say?  Mr. Lefein

That God is Spirit, expresses a soul, and didn't have a body of flesh until he came manifested as the person of Christ, who himself says; Before Abraham was, I am.

And back on topic, I say that the soul can exist independently of the body, but that it depends on the spirit to exist, or even be.  Because God is a spirit, who expresses a soul - and did not have a body of flesh in the Old Testament.  "God is not a man that he should lie".  Also that we are made in God's image, which in the Old Testament probably did not have much to do with the flesh, or body, but rather had a great deal more to do with the spirit, the Breath of Life that he gave, which carried with it the expression of a soul.  And indeed I believe that we are made in the image of the invisible God, and in the Old Testament we were made in the image of the bodiless or fleshless God - and so our likeness of being in God's image is probably not rooted in the body, which dies, and decays, and is temporal (very much unlike God, and so is a poor image of God if that was his intent) but is instead rooted in the inner man, the spirit and soul of the person, who by the spirit are able to express a soul, very much like God, and so the inner man is a much better image, or likeness of God, than dust...of which God does not depend to exist.

I also cite Samuel, who was not resurrected, and therefore was a being who could interact, and therefore expressed a soul - yet was without flesh, and body.

You have not answered these, if you don't have an answer that is fine.  If you do, come to homeplate and bring them.   So...  Did God speak in Exodus 3 or was there another? [/quote]

Of course God spoke, but as the old saying goes; what does the price of tomato juice in Thailand have to do with our conversation?


Good day to you sir.

-Lefein

[Molly]

"Since we know that we were one with Him from the beginning?" How is this?

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: Yes, I'm of the opinion from what I've seen in the Word, that Adam was not THIS body of dust YET because until the disobedience, I think he dwelled in the heavenly realms, and the dust he was originally made from was like "gold dust" ie. a heavenly body.

This revelation was working on me this morning as I awoke. The tabernacle shows a progression beginning with the fallen state (outer court of animal skins/He put skins on them), BUT the end is shown as a new man which is composed of gold (speaks of the higher nature of God and His pre-fall creation), within and WITHOUT, which is shown in the construction of the Ark made of craptim wood (speaks of humanity).

The two coverings of gold represent the anointing within and without, accompanied by the glory cloud as the covering over the new creation man the Ark represents. Since we know that we were one with Him from the beginning, that means the END (Holy of Holies) is really our beginning!

This is further witnessed (to me at least) in that the ephod was made of GOLD, and covered the heart (soul) of man. We know that Adam was made a High Priest of God, we know Lucifer was a man who had every precious stone for his covering.

The soul is the vessel for the spirit (both good and bad) to express it's nature thru, ie. birth something. Because it is like a womb, it reproduces whatever seed is planted in it. He's had me on some deeper things regarding this lately, but I've not done the "homework" necessary yet to bring it forth. Blessings....

I am glad you said opinion, at the onset

:cloud9: Don't forget the creation was "lowered" too. Romans 8, the CREATION is travailing waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. It too, had a pristine state. Blessings....

[thinktank]

:cloud9: Yes, when I say "gold dust" obviously I don't mean literal gold dust. I have seen the glorified body and it looked like cells of living gold, is all I can use to explain it. Since dust and cloud is the same, and since we are cells of His body, it makes perfect sense. Now as for the other.....check it out.....


I have faith we'd be rich one day but I never thought we''d literally be made of gold.  :icon_joker:

[micah7:9]

"Yes, I'm of the opinion...." (Cardinal)  "The soul is the vessel for the spirit ..." (Cardinal) now the soul is a vessel? Where do you read this?
These thoughts are your opinion, correct? 
"This revelation was working on me this morning as I awoke." (Cardinal)
"Don't forget the creation was "lowered" (Cardinal)
I dont see where creation was lowered Rom 8:20  for to vanity was the creation made subject--not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it --in hope
Peace and Love Through Jesus

[Molly]

I dont see where creation was lowered

5Now it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. 6 It has been testified somewhere,

    "What is man, that you are mindful of him,
   or the son of man, that you care for him?
7You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
   you have crowned him with glory and honor,

8putting everything in subjection under his feet."

--Heb 2



...cursed is the ground because of you;
    in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;

--Gen 3




Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—" 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

--Gen 3



14Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. 16For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.


--Heb 2

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Micah, I'm going to post something pertaining to the vessel aspect of this, ASAP, but I have some more studying to do. Though I know you don't believe it, EVERYTHING I say is backed up by scripture and/or revealed precepts contained in scripture. Peace..... :thumbsup: