Christ's death

[micah7:9]

Cardinal: Humanity - The Human Species was created in two separate genders.  Not one hermaphrodite individual who was later through some sort of divine surgery (that isn't even mentioned) divided into two genders.

Eve, an individual, was in essence cloned from Adam's rib, or side - the only divine surgery here is God pulling a rib out of Adam, and closing the side.  There is no mention of Adam having a womb removed, or a vulva, or breasts, or any thing that even constitutes the woman body.  Only his rib.  And from that rib, Woman was formed.

God made humanity, and made them male and female.  The Human, male, and pulled from him a rib, and made another human suitable for him who was a girl.

Friend Lefein, we are talking of God here, and God created man...male and female created(should be creating) He them.
God is El - Shadi= the breasted one. God is a nurturer to His children. He is male and female. Yet He does not see the difference Gal 3:28  There cannot be Jew or Greek, there cannot be bond or free, there cannot be male and female, for, all ye, are one, in Christ Jesus:

[Lefein]

It is not written that he shall dissolve the gender identities of the resurrected.

It is not written that Adam the individual was brought out of the dust with a vagina, penis, scrotum, and breasts.

It is a ludicrous destruction of God's creation, and the very soul - yes indeed the soul, of a person to dissolve their identities of which gender is a foundational part.  Equality does not mean dissolution of beautiful, and complimentary differences, it means the dissolution of prejudice.

To reduce humanity to hermaphrodites in the beginning, or in the resurrection to come is to produce the spiritual equivalent of "strange flesh".  Hence I find it abominable in the site of the Lord who has made Humanity Male, and Female in His image, his image is his nature - Sentient, Rational, Emotional, etc.  God is Father, and Son...not Mother and Daughter.

[micah7:9]

"rib"

H6763
צלעה    צלע
tsêlâ‛  tsal‛âh
tsay-law', tsal-aw'
From H6760; a rib (as curved), literally (of the body) or figuratively (of a door, that is, leaf); hence a side, literally (of a person) or figuratively (of an object or the sky, that is, quarter); architecturally a timber (especially floor or ceiling) or plank (single or collectively, that is, a flooring): - beem, board, chamber, corner, leaf, plank, rib, side (chamber).

Could this "rib" not be the new direction of man [curved] a door or [leaf] that is now open for the dialouge, a new base or foundation of thought[/b][plank, flooring, board] and new way of thought [chamber]? Rather than the metaphor "soul?"  Could it not be a "new awakened mind of man" who at that time still had the attributes of male and female, but as of yet was not revealed to man until Gen. 3:7 when "their" eyes were opened?

[Lefein]

It could be a literal bit of cells, and flesh, and bone from his literal side..

I grow impatient, and weary; Universal Reconciliation should not be used as a license to carry weird doctrines.  :2c:

[Molly]

... because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

--Isa 53:12




[he has] "poured out" [his soul]
H6168
ערה
‛ârâh
aw-raw'
A primitive root; to be (causatively make) bare; hence to empty, pour out, demolish: - leave destitute, discover, empty, make naked, pour (out), rase, spread self, uncover.

[micah7:9]

It is not written that he shall dissolve the gender identities of the resurrected.

It is not written that Adam the individual was brought out of the dust with a vagina, penis, scrotum, and breasts.

It is a ludicrous destruction of God's creation, and the very soul - yes indeed the soul, of a person to dissolve their identities of which gender is a foundational part.  Equality does not mean dissolution of beautiful, and complimentary differences, it means the dissolution of prejudice.

To reduce humanity to hermaphrodites in the beginning, or in the resurrection to come is to produce the spiritual equivalent of "strange flesh".  Hence I find it abominable in the site of the Lord who has made Humanity Male, and Female in His image, his image is his nature - Sentient, Rational, Emotional, etc.  God is Father, and Son...not Mother and Daughter.

I dont understand how you can read the Bible with that mentality. I mean no disrespect, but that kind of thinking is very
unusual to me.

[micah7:9]

... because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

--Isa 53:12




[he has] "poured out" [his soul]
H6168
ערה
‛ârâh
aw-raw'
A primitive root; to be (causatively make) bare; hence to empty, pour out, demolish: - leave destitute, discover, empty, make naked, pour (out), rase, spread self, uncover.

... because he hath poured out his LIFE unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

--Isa 53:12   Molly is this not the same in translation

[Lefein]

I dont understand how you can read the Bible with that mentality. I mean no disrespect, but that kind of thinking is very
unusual to me.

What mentality would that be?  No offense taken, but I want to be sure we're on the same page.

[thinktank]

Cardinal: Humanity - The Human Species was created in two separate genders.  Not one hermaphrodite individual who was later through some sort of divine surgery (that isn't even mentioned) divided into two genders.

Eve, an individual, was in essence cloned from Adam's rib, or side - the only divine surgery here is God pulling a rib out of Adam, and closing the side.  There is no mention of Adam having a womb removed, or a vulva, or breasts, or any thing that even constitutes the woman body.  Only his rib.  And from that rib, Woman was formed.

God made humanity, and made them male and female.  The Human, male, and pulled from him a rib, and made another human suitable for him who was a girl.

Male and female called their name Adam. This is when God created the very spirits of mankind, both male spirits and female ones on day 6 of creation you could argue that this is when man preexisted prior to entering mothers womb, the number of man is 6 and called their name Adam. But God didn't create human bodies for them until day 8 in order to till the earth or ground. The original physical Adam was also named Adam in order that spirit Adam(There could be one original spirit Adam, but I belive that perhaps every spirit alive today was created here)only one spirit may dwell within the clay body of Adam, then Eve was created from Adam's rib and another female spirit entered her, one reason for this was to make them intimate, that Adam needs his rib to feel complete, hence they cleave to one another and produce a good marriage, so in spirt they comliment each other for they are male and female in spirit, but also compliment each other in soul, for their bodies are made for each other.
:2c:

[Molly]

It is not written that he shall dissolve the gender identities of the resurrected.

It is not written that Adam the individual was brought out of the dust with a vagina, penis, scrotum, and breasts.

It is a ludicrous destruction of God's creation, and the very soul - yes indeed the soul, of a person to dissolve their identities of which gender is a foundational part.  Equality does not mean dissolution of beautiful, and complimentary differences, it means the dissolution of prejudice.

To reduce humanity to hermaphrodites in the beginning, or in the resurrection to come is to produce the spiritual equivalent of "strange flesh".  Hence I find it abominable in the site of the Lord who has made Humanity Male, and Female in His image, his image is his nature - Sentient, Rational, Emotional, etc.  God is Father, and Son...not Mother and Daughter.

I dont understand how you can read the Bible with that mentality. I mean no disrespect, but that kind of thinking is very
unusual to me.

We're not talking about sex, Lefein.  Forget about sex for a minute.  You've studied other languages, haven't you?  You know how other languages assign a male or female gender to inanimate objects?  It has nothing to do with sex, but more to do with attributes.

[Lefein]

The context of the verse as far as I can tell directly applies to their genders (not talking about "sex" I'm talking about gender identity), not their attributes of mind: Animus, Anima.  Unless I am some how completely illiterate...or else devoid entirely of The Spirit and some how I am missing the plain truth.  :dontknow:

[micah7:9]

The context of the verse as far as I can tell directly applies to their genders (not talking about "sex" I'm talking about gender identity), not their attributes of mind: Animus, Anima.  Unless I am some how completely illiterate...or else devoid entirely of The Spirit and some how I am missing the plain truth.  :dontknow:

Maybe you missed this  Friend Lefein, we are talking of God here, and God created man...male and female created(should be creating) He them.
God is El - Shadi= the breasted one. God is a nurturer to His children. He is male and female. Yet He does not see the difference Gal 3:28  There cannot be Jew or Greek, there cannot be bond or free, there cannot be male and female, for, all ye, are one, in Christ Jesus:

[Molly]

... because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

--Isa 53:12




[he has] "poured out" [his soul]
H6168
ערה
‛ârâh
aw-raw'
A primitive root; to be (causatively make) bare; hence to empty, pour out, demolish: - leave destitute, discover, empty, make naked, pour (out), rase, spread self, uncover.

... because he hath poured out his LIFE unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

--Isa 53:12   Molly is this not the same in translation

The word is 'nephesh,' so I suppose you could say he made naked his life or poured out his vitality--but, to me, it doesn't have the same meaning as making naked his soul.  I feel he had to separate from the Father to take on the sin of the world, leaving his soul uncovered.  To me, my soul equals my self.  So it has a little different meaning to it than my life.


H5315
נפשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

[Lefein]

Micah, I don't see how you are coming to that conclusion.  I could see how El'Shaddai would consist of nurturing, and provision - but nothing towards the state of God's gender; even when he plainly is called Father by the very Messiah himself, who knows the Father more intimately than you or I might possibly know in this life.

Male and Female created He them - could easily read as - He created them Male and Female.

[Molly]

Micah, I don't see how you are coming to that conclusion.  I could see how El'Shaddai would consist of nurturing, and provision - but nothing towards the state of God's gender; even when he plainly is called Father by the very Messiah himself, who knows the Father more intimately than you or I might possibly know in this life.

Male and Female created He them - could easily read as - He created them Male and Female.

Yes, literally.  But metaphorically or spiritually you could say Adam is spirit, Eve is soul, and they share one body--Adam--so you have spirit, soul, and body.

[Lefein]

Metaphorically speaking, anything is possible..

[Molly]

Metaphorically speaking, anything is possible..

Not really.  Even metaphor has its limits lol.  I can't say, for instance,' the tree was a barking dog'--and expect to be understood.


The use of a word or phrase to refer to something that it isn't, invoking a direct similarity between the word or phrase used and the thing described, and in the case of English without the words "like" or "as"; The word or phrase used in this way. An implied comparison

[thinktank]

Metaphorically speaking, anything is possible..

Not really.  Even metaphor has its limits lol.  I can't say, for instance,' the tree was a barking dog'--and expect to be understood.


The use of a word or phrase to refer to something that it isn't, invoking a direct similarity between the word or phrase used and the thing described, and in the case of English without the words "like" or "as"; The word or phrase used in this way. An implied comparison

The tree represents the tree of good and evil, it barked and demanded attention, but in the end its fruit turned Adam and Eve into dogs, hence Christ called the woman gentile those outside the camp "dog".

:2c:

[micah7:9]

Metaphorically speaking, anything is possible..

You got that right.

[Molly]

Metaphorically speaking, anything is possible..

Not really.  Even metaphor has its limits lol.  I can't say, for instance,' the tree was a barking dog'--and expect to be understood.


The use of a word or phrase to refer to something that it isn't, invoking a direct similarity between the word or phrase used and the thing described, and in the case of English without the words "like" or "as"; The word or phrase used in this way. An implied comparison

The tree represents the tree of good and evil, it barked and demanded attention, but in the end its fruit turned Adam and Eve into dogs, hence Christ called the woman gentile those outside the camp "dog".

:2c:

I knew I was going to regret that LOL.

And, Micah is never going to admit I have a soul.  :msealed:

[micah7:9]

Micah, I don't see how you are coming to that conclusion.  I could see how El'Shaddai would consist of nurturing, and provision - but nothing towards the state of God's gender; even when he plainly is called Father by the very Messiah himself, who knows the Father more intimately than you or I might possibly know in this life.

Male and Female created He them - could easily read as - He created them Male and Female.

Yes, exactly he made them male and female. Do really believe you have no female attributes in you? Do you not believe you have the same caring and nurturing for you children and loved ones as a female has? Are you all masculine with no tenderness? No sir, I belileve that Gen. 1:27 is what God meant to do, for we see in Rom. 1:26 and 27 the outcome of such a dual creation in what man will indulge in.

[micah7:9]

Metaphorically speaking, anything is possible..

Not really.  Even metaphor has its limits lol.  I can't say, for instance,' the tree was a barking dog'--and expect to be understood.


The use of a word or phrase to refer to something that it isn't, invoking a direct similarity between the word or phrase used and the thing described, and in the case of English without the words "like" or "as"; The word or phrase used in this way. An implied comparison

The tree represents the tree of good and evil, it barked and demanded attention, but in the end its fruit turned Adam and Eve into dogs, hence Christ called the woman gentile those outside the camp "dog".

:2c:

I knew I was going to regret that LOL.

And, Micah is never going to admit I have a soul.  :msealed:

No actually you may be more on the money than you think.
But I will admit you have a soul when from the Bible you can show me where you got it.

[Cardinal]

Cardinal: Humanity - The Human Species was created in two separate genders.  Not one hermaphrodite individual who was later through some sort of divine surgery (that isn't even mentioned) divided into two genders.

Eve, an individual, was in essence cloned from Adam's rib, or side - the only divine surgery here is God pulling a rib out of Adam, and closing the side.  There is no mention of Adam having a womb removed, or a vulva, or breasts, or any thing that even constitutes the woman body.  Only his rib.  And from that rib, Woman was formed.

God made humanity, and made them male and female.  The Human, male, and pulled from him a rib, and made another human suitable for him who was a girl.

:cloud9: Lefein......was Christ literally a rock out of which water flowed? There is line upon line (letter literal understanding) and there is precept upon precept (principles that reflect the Truth found in His Spirit which is mirrored in the creation, including man).

While it's important, actually mandatory, to get the Word in you line upon line, there comes a time when you are called to walk upon the waters below the firmament (literal letter AND natural creation) and walk in the understanding that only the Spirit can provide.

What I'm sharing is witnessed all thru the Word from Genesis to Revelation, as are ALL precepts, which is one way you know that you know that you know......Blessings.....

[Lefein]

Yes, exactly he made them male and female. Do really believe you have no female attributes in you? Do you not believe you have the same caring and nurturing for you children and loved ones as a female has? Are you all masculine with no tenderness? No sir, I belileve that Gen. 1:27 is what God meant to do, for we see in Rom. 1:26 and 27 the outcome of such a dual creation in what man will indulge in.

I don't think that is what is implied by the scriptures.  Masculinity is capable of being tender.  Anima, and Animus are aspects of the soul, but not gender identity.  A man in Heaven might be in touch with his feminine side...but he isn't going to walk around in spiritual drag...Neither did he do so in the beginning.  This is my perspective, and conviction.

Lefein......was Christ literally a rock out of which water flowed? There is line upon line (letter literal understanding) and there is precept upon precept (principles that reflect the Truth found in His Spirit which is mirrored in the creation, including man).

While it's important, actually mandatory, to get the Word in you line upon line, there comes a time when you are called to walk upon the waters below the firmament (literal letter AND natural creation) and walk in the understanding that only the Spirit can provide.

We should be careful that we are in Living water, not weirdness.  I will not say one way or another that your revelations are not correct - but I will say that there is a line between stretching our horizons...and stretching context.

What I'm sharing is witnessed all thru the Word from Genesis to Revelation, as are ALL precepts, which is one way you know that you know that you know......Blessings.....

And I am sharing the convictions of The Spirit.  Peace be with you..

[Pierac]

Is not the living soul/human being/man/person, the vessel, from which the desires and lusts emit from when the self/ego is tempted?  The "soul" being tempted is the vessel, the vessel is the soul...there IS NO SOUL IN A vessel.

Indeed but it works both ways... the body (made of soul) when combined with the spirit of God becomes a living Soul. The soul can not survive with out a body, as the soul departs the flesh with out the Spirit.

Psa 146:4  When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish. 

Ecc 9:10  Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.

1Co 15:45  So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Gen 2:7  Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

The Hebrew word נְשָׁמָה (neshamah, "breath") is used for God and for the life imparted to humans, not animals (see T. C. Mitchell, "The Old Testament Usage of Neshama," VT 11 [1961]: 177-87). Its usage in the Bible conveys more than a breathing living organism (נֶפֶשׁ חַיַּה, nefesh khayyah). Whatever is given this breath of life becomes animated with the life from God, has spiritual understanding (Job_32:8), and has a functioning conscience (Pro_20:27).

Human life is described here as consisting of a body (made from soil from the ground) and breath (given by God). Both animals and humans are called "a living being" (נֶפֶשׁ חַיַּה) but humankind became that in a different and more significant way.

23 tn The Hebrew term נֶפֶשׁ (nefesh, "being") is often translated "soul," but the word usually refers to the whole person. The phrase נֶפֶשׁ חַיַּה (nefesh khayyah, "living being") is used of both animals and human beings (see Gen_1:20; Gen_1:24; Gen_1:30; Gen_2:19).  (Net Bible Commentary)


Paul