Christ's death

[rosered]

 knowing this may not matter much to some
   but to others as I it does  matter
   Jesus soul was the sacrifice for sin
  our soul is the very seat of emotions , peace , joy , pain ,hate  etc  hunger , thirst  ,  by  feeling / knowing  loss or gain  of it , the soul ,   love being the best one to  display but hard to describe
Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

  Jesus gave them riches of HIS  soul and Spirit   and Body  to us ,  His joy  to be full and His peace and His  love and His faith  ,and righteousness   that we would some how become complete in Him by faith  it is the grace of God 

hunger and thrist after righteouness shall be filled in Him  ...

Jhn 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full.

Jhn 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.


Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
  my faith it says  above my joy , my  peace 

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.   His offering and sacrifice without Him we are nothing and  do nothing of ourselves

[Quaesitor]

One point I would like to bring is that IMO the soul cannot express itself without a body/vessel of some sort.
If being soulish is to be attached to the soil, to the needs of the body over the needs of the spirit, then Micah would be right and a human being would need both a spirit AND a body to be complete.
Else, why the need for a new non-corrupted and immortal body, let's all be just spirits and souls?

[Lefein]

Can a soul live without a body? isnt that the spirit of a man that lives within him.

We should remember that there is a difference between physical death, and Death - absence of life.

A person who is separated from God in his soul is for all intents and purposes a walking dead man.  A man can live in a house (body), if that house is destroyed the house is dead, and the man is homeless (physical death), but he is still alive in the animated sense, but dead in the sense of his being separated from God who is Life.

However, if the person is not separated from God in his soul, then it doesn't matter if he is homeless or not, because he is Alive in the truest sense of the word, having Life, even if he is without a home.

Are we made of soul, spirit, body

I believe we are a Spirit, who expresses soul/being, who dwells in a body.

Soul= mind, ego Spirit ( can it exist without the body?)=man  Made in Gods image ( exists without body it  seems ghosts)

Ghosts are a possibility, if such things exist indeed.  With Hell now but fable and myth...we are left with possibilities to consider.

So the question is are we 2 ghosts, one ghost is the spirit, the part that returns to God or remains in the underworld as Samuel was, the other ghost being the soul, where all our memories and emotions are stored (scientists cannot find memory part for the brain) can a soul live? Or does the soul only live when it becomes part of the body hence man become a living soul. Hmm I think that the confusion here is that people call the spirit man within them a soul. I am not talking about Christ within I am talking about a man made in Christs image a reflection of him, but not him, lives within each of us, and this part died (not literally, but died to God) and become evil when Adam ate the tree of good and evil, but we as christians receive Christ, his blood not only restores this image, we had in Adam, but also gives us the holy spirit to live within our temple (inner part our spirit, outer part our soul/body. I believe that Adam did not have the holy spirit to help him as we do and that's one reaon why he failed the test of Gods commandment.
I'm still not clear on what a soul is though, for God has a soul, is Gods soul his personal being in heaven who sits on a throne, I think that might be it.

It is important to remember several things.

First, the spirit returns to God, but God is omnipresent and is even in Sheol, where the soul (atleast in the Old Testament) lingers.

A soul's existence is dependent on the spirit's existence.  You cannot run a computer program without electricity, and it is the electric currents which make up the program.  The binary code used in all computer programs - are electrical currents, the same electrical currents which "give life" to the machine.

Electric to power --> Electric to express a program --> the program you see on your screen: 

The same electricity that powers the program, is the same electricity that is the code that makes up a program.  Like your internet browser, it is nothing more than the electricity that powers your computer being shaped into code that allows you to surf the web.

Spirit to make alive --> Spirit to express a soul/being --> a living being that you see through the body:

The spirit I believe works on a similar principle to how electricity is the Being of a computer program, as well as what powers it.

Else, why the need for a new non-corrupted and immortal body, let's all be just spirits and souls?

Because man was never meant to be bodiless.  It is a part of God's artistic expression perhaps, to have indwelt the Beauty that is Man, in a vessel to express it.

Gold is beautiful, not because it is an element, but because Beauty expresses itself through that element.  But even if the gold did not exist, Beauty would still exist.

[Cardinal]

In the Old Testament God has a soul/is a soul (he talks about stuff hurting his soul)...he didn't have a body of dust in the Old Testament.

:cloud9: Yes He does, and we were made in His image.

I suppose it would be safe to conclude that a soul can (and indeed does) exist without a vessel (body) then?

:cloud9: Yes, it does. It's what goes into "Sheol" at the death of the body. Jesus saying there is neither male nor female in heaven because there are BOTH, is again, a affirmation of UR, because the soul is feminine, the "wife" of the spirit. The spirit returns to the One that sent it, but because we are reproved with our OWN WICKEDNESS, whatever the soul did not overcome thru Christ while still in the body, keeps it "weighed down", ie. the weight of sin/missing the mark, the mark is the MIND (soul) of Christ.

So for Him to say that male and female are one in heaven, is speaking of the resurrection of the SOUL to join the spirit. It is not good for Adam (spirit) to be alone. And THIS is what it means by, what GOD hath joined together let no man put assunder. What He speaks, He gets, and He is not going to let ANY MAN, stay divided, for He is what makes us WHOLE, ONE NEW MAN = He called THEIR name, Adam.

It is not a permanent situation for the soul, but is as the fire of purifying where every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. I know this because I experienced it, and THEN He gave me understanding in the Word of what had happened. And it was NOT thru a NDE; He took me there.  :mshock: I know it's a slight "divergence" from the mainstream here, but I'm accountable for what I know. Blessings.....

I guess the problem I have with this if you don't mind me saying I hope, is that it implies that God created an inperfect creation, a creation that was not whole from the begining, even before Adam sinned.
It seems to imply, if I read it correctly that we the soul [eve], fell from Adam [Christ] and so we now need to rejoin as one in the resurection.
I guess im reading it from a chronological time frame account of Genesis- perhaps you are meaning to use that analogy and apply it to a different time, sitation  :dontknow:.

:cloud9: Of course He did. If the creation was not "imperfect", we would have no need of Christ. He knew a divided HOUSE could not stand. He divided Eve (as darkness) from Adam (as light), the same pattern as when He divided the waters FROM the waters earlier. He created us with a "Christ-sized wound". Do you think He was taken by surprise that Eve ate the fruit?

A day is 12 hours of darkness and 12 hours of light, in the first 6 days. Note that the darkness was listed first in Genesis. He builds the house first before He inhabits it. What man builds a house without first counting the cost? In the natural, the womb must exist for the seed to be planted in it.

Saying there is no soul, is the same as saying there is no darkness. In the 7th day, it says only light. It's not light because there was no darkness, it's light because the darkness was swallowed/covered up. Love COVERS a multitude of sins. The Ark of Covenant COVERED the tablets of the law. When uncovered, the law brought death to those who removed the mercy seat. Blessings....

[Molly]

knowing this may not matter much to some
   but to others as I it does  matter
   Jesus soul was the sacrifice for sin
  our soul is the very seat of emotions , peace , joy , pain ,hate  etc  hunger , thirst  ,  by  feeling / knowing  loss or gain  of it , the soul ,   love being the best one to  display but hard to describe
Isa 53:10  Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

  Jesus gave them riches of HIS  soul and Spirit   and Body  to us ,  His joy  to be full and His peace and His  love and His faith  ,and righteousness   that we would some how become complete in Him by faith  it is the grace of God 

hunger and thrist after righteouness shall be filled in Him  ...

Jhn 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full.

Jhn 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.


Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
  my faith it says  above my joy , my  peace 

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.   His offering and sacrifice without Him we are nothing and  do nothing of ourselves

wow  :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, Rosie...... :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

"Jesus soul was the sacrifice for sin" Rosered  Jesus life was the sacrfice for sin.

Isa 53:10  Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin
                Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his life an offering for sin.

The word "soul" is not an enitiy of itself. A soul, person, human being has the 5 senses that ignite the lusts and desires that begin in the mind of a soul, person, human being. It really is not difficult to stop seeing that a soul does not drive mans appetites.
Jas 1:14  but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
             but each soul is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.

The teaching that man has a soul is orthodox theology which began through mistranslation by man. If Gen. 2:7 is not the diffinition of what a soul is then I dont know how to understand the Bible. Man can take mans understanding and build doctrines that man will build on and understand, but that dont make it correct.

[Molly]

If Gen. 2:7 is not the diffinition of what a soul is then I dont know how to understand the Bible.

What's the definition?  Clay plus the breath of God?

What about Eve?  She was made from Adam's rib.

[Molly]

23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

24Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

--Phil 1

[thinktank]

Of course He did. If the creation was not "imperfect", we would have no need of Christ. He knew a divided HOUSE could not stand. He divided Eve (as darkness) from Adam (as light), the same pattern as when He divided the waters FROM the waters earlier. He created us with a "Christ-sized wound". Do you think He was taken by surprise that Eve ate the fruit?

A day is 12 hours of darkness and 12 hours of light, in the first 6 days. Note that the darkness was listed first in Genesis. He builds the house first before He inhabits it. What man builds a house without first counting the cost? In the natural, the womb must exist for the seed to be planted in it.

Saying there is no soul, is the same as saying there is no darkness. In the 7th day, it says only light. It's not light because there was no darkness, it's light because the darkness was swallowed/covered up. Love COVERS a multitude of sins. The Ark of Covenant COVERED the tablets of the law. When uncovered, the law brought death to those who removed the mercy seat. Blessings....


I think I know where your coming from now, in that Adam is not the same as Eve. Adam was made in Gods image and was close to God, but Eve was made from Adam and was further away from God( A third copy if you like of Christ, a bit distorted), and thats why the serpent tempted her, because she did not have enough of God in her to resist temptation but then again Adam failed the temptation of the woman, but perhaps because the temptation of the woman was much harder to resist than the temptation of the serpent!.

The temptation of the serpent was sparkly jewellery (Apple) but the temptation of the woman, was Adam living life without Eve (love).  :msealed:

[Molly]

Satan turns everything upsidedown and backwards.

[Lefein]

Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God created human in God's image, in the image of God, God created human; God created them, multiple humans male and female in God's image.

[rosered]

"Jesus soul was the sacrifice for sin" Rosered  Jesus life was the sacrfice for sin.

Isa 53:10  Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin
                Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his life an offering for sin.

The word "soul" is not an enitiy of itself. A soul, person, human being has the 5 senses that ignite the lusts and desires that begin in the mind of a soul, person, human being. It really is not difficult to stop seeing that a soul does not drive mans appetites.
Jas 1:14  but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
             but each soul is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.

The teaching that man has a soul is orthodox theology which began through mistranslation by man. If Gen. 2:7 is not the diffinition of what a soul is then I dont know how to understand the Bible. Man can take mans understanding and build doctrines that man will build on and understand, but that dont make it correct.

Yes  Micah    His Life  breath complete = is Body Soul and Spirit

   the soul determines our purpose

  For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? /life

Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?/life

  Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

  I do beg to differ on that about the soul / life  not being what drives us 
  being



  Blessings

  the way this box   jumps around all over the place makes it impossible to post!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Eve is the stony heart (middle/rib made of calcium) of Adam, his soul. We all have an "Eve" to deal with. He took her out of him to show him what was in his heart. The same principle as when He took the Israelites out into the wilderness to show them what was in THEIR hearts. Those SEVEN nations they had to overcome are all aspects of the darkness of our own souls.

Seven means fullness, but the fullness can be of darkness too, ie. "perfect or complete" darkness. This is why there is NO SIN that is not common to man, because all of it is in his heart. The difference is, when it comes to the REALLY bad ones, some give those things of darkness "life" or expression, and some do not. Blessings....

[thinktank]

"Jesus soul was the sacrifice for sin" Rosered  Jesus life was the sacrfice for sin.

Isa 53:10  Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin
                Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his life an offering for sin.

The word "soul" is not an enitiy of itself. A soul, person, human being has the 5 senses that ignite the lusts and desires that begin in the mind of a soul, person, human being. It really is not difficult to stop seeing that a soul does not drive mans appetites.
Jas 1:14  but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
             but each soul is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.

The teaching that man has a soul is orthodox theology which began through mistranslation by man. If Gen. 2:7 is not the diffinition of what a soul is then I dont know how to understand the Bible. Man can take mans understanding and build doctrines that man will build on and understand, but that dont make it correct.

I think you have the corect definition of what a soul is. I think the problem is that people say that when God created man in his own image, they tend to use the word "soul".
They say man is a soul within a body and mind
But the scriptures say man is a spirit in Gods image, placed inside a body of dust {dust] and spirit [breath] or water and blood
Then he becomes a living soul. A dead soul lies within sheol, do not leave my soul in hell, cried the psalmist.
But the spirit continues to live for it is made in Gods image, it cannot die. Those who are washed clean can enter heaven, but those who are not need to be cleansed, ndeers say that their spirit cannot go to a certain place in heaven, they are barred, just like the cherubim barred Adam from entering the garden of eden.
:2c:

[Cardinal]

Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God created human in God's image, in the image of God, God created human; God created them, multiple humans male and female in God's image.

:cloud9: Male and female created He THEM. THEIR name was Adam (Adam named her Eve, not God), and Adam was/is both male and female in one, spirit and soul in one, as God proved by taking her from him. That is the PATTERN, just as Jesus and His body are male and female, ie. we are His bride. Blessings.....

[micah7:9]

 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own life?

Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his life?
Life, our living, as a soul/person does drive us. Our ego(self) is driven by the desires of the senses.

[micah7:9]

If Gen. 2:7 is not the diffinition of what a soul is then I dont know how to understand the Bible.

What's the definition?  Clay plus the breath of God? = a living soul (Gen. 2:7)


What about Eve?  She was made from Adam's rib. woman was taken out of man(flesh) Gen. 2:21-23

[Lefein]

I do not believe, nor do I see that Adam was for all intents and purposes; a hermaphrodite.

We need to be careful not to attribute unnecessary amounts of esoteric meaning to the plain truth of God, and his creations.

[micah7:9]

I do not believe, nor do I see that Adam was for all intents and purposes; a hermaphrodite.

Read it in the Bible my friend Gen. 1:27, but I dont really like the term you used even if it is medically correct.

[micah7:9]

"Jesus soul was the sacrifice for sin" Rosered  Jesus life was the sacrfice for sin.

Isa 53:10  Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin
                Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his life an offering for sin.

The word "soul" is not an enitiy of itself. A soul, person, human being has the 5 senses that ignite the lusts and desires that begin in the mind of a soul, person, human being. It really is not difficult to stop seeing that a soul does not drive mans appetites.
Jas 1:14  but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
             but each soul is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.

The teaching that man has a soul is orthodox theology which began through mistranslation by man. If Gen. 2:7 is not the diffinition of what a soul is then I dont know how to understand the Bible. Man can take mans understanding and build doctrines that man will build on and understand, but that dont make it correct.

Yes  Micah    His Life  breath complete = is Body Soul and Spirit

   the soul determines our purpose

  For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? /life

Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?/life

  Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

  I do beg to differ on that about the soul / life  not being what drives us 
  being



  Blessings

  the way this box   jumps around all over the place makes it impossible to post!

You have that correct. :thumbsup:

[Lefein]

CLV Gn 1:27 And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.

[rosered]

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own life?

Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his life?
Life, our living, as a soul/person does drive us. Our ego(self) is driven by the desires of the senses.

  I agree , but does that not what Jesus Christ come to change /our egos and save us from ?
  pride of life/soul  is what causes us to miss the mark  in the first place ?

1Jo 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food, and that it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.



the tree to make one wise and pleasent to the eyes  of percieving


lust when concived Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[rosered]

"Jesus soul was the sacrifice for sin" Rosered  Jesus life was the sacrfice for sin.

Isa 53:10  Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin
                Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his life an offering for sin.

The word "soul" is not an enitiy of itself. A soul, person, human being has the 5 senses that ignite the lusts and desires that begin in the mind of a soul, person, human being. It really is not difficult to stop seeing that a soul does not drive mans appetites.
Jas 1:14  but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
             but each soul is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.

The teaching that man has a soul is orthodox theology which began through mistranslation by man. If Gen. 2:7 is not the diffinition of what a soul is then I dont know how to understand the Bible. Man can take mans understanding and build doctrines that man will build on and understand, but that dont make it correct.

Yes  Micah    His Life  breath complete = is Body Soul and Spirit

   the soul determines our purpose

  For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? /life

Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?/life

  Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

  I do beg to differ on that about the soul / life  not being what drives us 
  being



  Blessings

  the way this box   jumps around all over the place makes it impossible to post!

You have that correct. :thumbsup:

the jumping all over the place too ? ha ha ha !  its so annoying lol , its one reason I do not post  here much  ... sorry :(

[micah7:9]

CLV Gn 1:27 And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.

He created male-male and female and He created female-female and male. That what it reads does it not.