sodom and gomorrah as the example of 'eternal' fire

[marie glen]

[This post is about "death".  But because Jesus said His followers would never die, and Paul wrote that they are "asleep in Christ", I believe believers after death and before resurrection are in a sort of twilight. A deep sleep (slumber) like with anesthesia. -- "A time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out, some to a resurrection of life and some to a resurrection of judgment." (Rev. 20:4-14)]

Romans 9:29, Paul quoted Isaiah "Unless the LORD left us a seed" (Jesus!) "we would be like Sodom and Gomorrah."

So what is Sodom and Gomorrah like?

Jude says, verse 7, that Sodom and Gomorrah are an example of the everlasting (aionion) fire (G4442. pur/pyros) and penalty (G1349. diké recompense based on justice, legal decision, right as self evident, etc). ....KJ uses the word vengeance, the most extreme usage, of course...

So what is the condition of Sodom and Gomorrah? Let's fly over there in our imagination and see.

Looking over the landscape, do we see fire? Sulphur and brimstone burning forever and ever?
No, we see hills of dust and ashes.

Death. Unless God had rescued us, we would perish.

There is, and would be no need for an everlasting 'hell'. No matter what.

Surely we are all learning that one cannot live (be alive) apart from God. The wages, result of sin is death. As we all know, "all are included in disobedience so God may have mercy on all".

God sent His beloved Son, that whosoever believes in (cleaves to, follows) Him, will not perish and will never die. ..Otherwise, we would be like Sodom and Gomorrah which are... (gone).

The people will be resurrected - a strong support for UR otherwise why bother - but the cities are not there now, but are gone.  (And w/o His intervention ALL would alike perish.)

:2c: - That's the seriousness.. Believers don't seem (to me) to understand the true gravity of this lesson we are learning.. good from evil (life from not life/death?). This short life is teaching us.. separation, wandering away from His will.. is death. He is (surely??) openly displaying this for ALL. Lesson for all, age unto age..

[eaglesway]

Speaking to Israel, the Lord promises to restore the captivity of Sodom..

"When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them" Ez 16:53

When we read in Romans11:26  that "therefore all Israel will be saved" we might ask "when?"  Ezekiel says at the same time as Sodom and Samaria.

Sodom and Samaria were the most disgusting reviled names in Israel. That is why the Lord used them so often to compare to smug, self-righteous Israel(parable of the good Samaritan for example). Samaria came to be when King Jeroboam forsook the Lord and called all Israel to worship golden calves("These are your Gods O Israel") and practice the ways of the heathen tribes surrounding them. No small insult coming from one who claimed to be Messiah.

JESUS SAID, "It will be more tolerable for Sodom in that Day....If the works performed in you(Capernaam) were done in Sodom she would have surely repented".


In Revelations, Jerusalem is likened to Sodom..."wherein our Lord was crucified"-

"Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city--which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where also their Lord was crucified." Rv 11:8

but our Lord was crucified in Jerusalem.....

If Sodom was categorized by YHWH through Ezekiel as being "restored from her captivity"....consider that God has "bound"(placed in captivity) all so that He may have mercy on all..."For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things" (see Romans 11:26-35)

Then consider that God made the whole creation "subject to"(held captive to) futility...


For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. Romans 8

But God is setting the whole creation free from slavery into "the glorious liberty of the children of God".

If God will restore Sodom, tell me, who can He not restore? :0)

[marie glen]

Amen! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

Ezekiel 16:53 However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them

[marie glen]

Amen! and of course.. as we know.. ALL shall be resurrected.. praise the Lord.. And, as an example of "eternal fire" (Jude 7) it just doesn't jive.. because if we fly over the site now, we will see no flames.. :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Spiritually speaking, I see Sodom as the flesh, and Gommorah as the carnal beastly mind in all of us, because both these things have to go through the fire of G-d. Blessings...

[marie glen]

Amen! :thumbsup: won't it be wonderful to no longer have any remnant of the "reprobate" mind and that self or lower not in union with God nature! - I like the way biblehub (http://biblehub.com/greek/4561.htm) interlinear explains it -

4561 (sarks) is generally negative, referring to making decisions (actions) according to self – i.e. done apart from faith (independent from God's inworking). Thus what is "of the flesh (carnal)" is by definition displeasing to the Lord – even things that seem "respectable!" In short, flesh generally relates to unaided human effort, i.e. decisions (actions) that originate from self or are empowered by self. This is carnal ("of the flesh") and proceeds out of the untouched (unchanged) part of us – i.e. what is not transformed by God.

4561 /sárks ("flesh") is not always evil in Scripture. Indeed, it is used positively in relation to sexual intercourse in marriage (Eph 5:31) – as well as for the sinless human body of Jesus (Jn 1:14; 1 Jn 4:2,3). Indeed, flesh (what is physical) is necessary for the body to live out the faith the Lord works in (Gal 2:20).

...Freedom! :thumbsup: (and ultimately, aLL things in heaven and earth back to perfection :cloud9: )

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen.  :banana:

[darryl]

Amen! and of course.. as we know.. ALL shall be resurrected.. praise the Lord.. And, as an example of "eternal fire" (Jude 7) it just doesn't jive.. because if we fly over the site now, we will see no flames.. :thumbsup:

also Edom...no smoke going up forever and ever !

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Spiritually speaking, I see Sodom as the flesh, and Gommorah as the carnal beastly mind in all of us, because both these things have to go through the fire of G-d. Blessings...

And the other 3 cities?
(5 cities were destroyed that day)

[jugghead]

:cloud9: Spiritually speaking, I see Sodom as the flesh, and Gommorah as the carnal beastly mind in all of us, because both these things have to go through the fire of G-d. Blessings...

And the other 3 cities?
(5 cities were destroyed that day)

are Admah, Zeboim and Bela the other three cities you are talking about, because I didn't think Bela was destroyed, Bela/Zoara became the refuge for Lot and its name was changed to Zoara

The reason I ask is this: Sodom and Gommorah mean "burnt" and "heap" and when we look at the names of the other cities meaning "Adam" and "deer, goats, etc" and "little" ...... what I see in all this is: a beginning and an end ..... and our new beginning

Admah and Zeboim is a picture of Adam and his nature (our beginning) and Sodom and Gommorah is the picture of a burnt heap (our end) the end of that which will be destoyed

Bela/Zoara is a picture of a name change like with Abram to Abraham, a representation of faith, with Zoara meaning little and the name change being brought into faith ...... when Christ says "ye of little faith" this is our beginning of our walk after the destruction of the Adam nature being turned into a burnt heap

But this is just my opinion

[WhiteWings]

Ezekeiel 16: 49 The crimes of your sister S'dom were pride and gluttony; she and her daughters were careless and complacent, so that they did nothing to help the poor and needy. 50 They were arrogant and committed disgusting acts before me; so that when I saw it, I swept them away.

[jugghead]

Ezekeiel 16: 49 The crimes of your sister S'dom were pride and gluttony; she and her daughters were careless and complacent, so that they did nothing to help the poor and needy. 50 They were arrogant and committed disgusting acts before me; so that when I saw it, I swept them away.

Romans 8:7  Because the carnal mind (flesh mindset) is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

[sheila]

re sodom...and Egypt...these parabolic acts of God reveal much  spiritually as to the mindsetof God. When God come down to

examine[judge] sodom...He supped with Abraham...and delivered the message of the coming birth of the 'promised seed" through Sarah.

both judgement and deliverance were addressed. Abraham..pictured God as the Fatherof many nations,Christ...his brother's[Adam]

keeper[promised seed]as Lot/God's lot.  God's lot was vexed and tormented of the filthy conversations in sodom and gomorrah......

........the two angels....as messengers of the two covenants[two wittnesses]judgement/deliverance...show that the desire of the

kingdom of darkness is to mingle with the angels[testimony]with perversions wrought of men with men..fallen 'porn'[fornication] stars

have the door shut to them. Man's vexation and torment suffered at the hand of the kingdom of darkness/prince of this world..shall

be turned unto laughter...at the deliverance of the promised Holy seed from sodom and Egypt[this world] into the new earth and new

heavens. No more tears,pain or death....the former things have passed away[eternal fire].

    the 'el-e-ments"[thoughts of God/manna/bread from heaven]being extremely hot[sun rising melted the manna] will melt.

    man's heart/mind will melt with the coming of the promised seed and deliverance........the light/heat of the son of God...and

we shall ALL BE CHANGED.  Come take life's water free. The Holy of Holies is covered with Gold in the temple...signifiying  the

very presence of God[spirit] in our bodies[tent/tabernacle] LOVE/CHARITY...even  the giving of your substance unto other's. God is

spirit and He has given a portion of Himself[spirit/life] unto all of us that we may live/ dwell with Him..for this reason Jesus..the 'word of God"

come in flesh..said,as ye have done unto others is the same as doing it unto me. some of God's spirit portions[lot] are in prison,

sick,naked,hungered/thirsty/sick,blinded,deaf.....God has laid down His own spirit portions/substance in this creation..in order to

take it back up again.God is all there is...all that we behold in this temporal creation exists only because of Him,,for his will/purpose.

    the negative contrast[wickedness] we expierence temporally will be utterly consumed[eternal fire] as an example of what God

  has rejected and not chose. And we will expierence and delight in what He has chose for life to be like..the Kingdom prepared...

the new heaven/earth...the eternal/immortal/incorruptible..thus God will be all in all[no negative contrast/temporal] and we shall

all be ONE[Union]  with God.

    God has put up with 'vessels of wrath" fitted for destruction..[adversary/negative contrast/wickedness/sin] with much long-suffering

  in order to make /show  known the riches of His mercy[charity] unto the objectsof His mercy..that He prepared[kingdom prepared

for you before the founding of this world]beforehand.

    He has rejected corruption and death as having any place in His eternal Kingdom and they are utterly consumed of Him[eternal fire]

  the riches of His mercy shall be shown unto all men[our incorrupt inheritance]and unto those on the right[sheep]..He shall say...Come,

   you Blessed inherit the Kingdom prepared for you before the founding of the world. He will seperate off all negative contrast goats

  [scapegoats/azazels]from His  people....[appear again  seperate from sin] and to those[satan and his evil ones] Depart from me

  you who are cursed into the eternal fire PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. Thus He sanctifies/cleanses all His people

  from sins/errors/wickedness....and takes away all their sin...as the LAMB....this is the 'wrath of the Lamb" that the devil and his angels

fear.The time of their torment.   Offspring of vipers heaped up heavy loads on men impossible to bear...they were unwilling to lift their

little finger. But God lifted His little finger....and wrote on the wall....mene,mene,tekel and upharsim. :2c:

[darryl]

yes...the fire of God is a cleansing Fire, not to torture or torment for the vindictive 'benefit' of God....

it can be a fire of judgement such as when the city of Babylon is ENTIRELY CONSUMED within ONE HOUR by fire from God as in Revelation 18 and 19 and is witnessed by the greedy merchants and the Kings of the Earth  watching from a distance, and occurs in this world, though Babylons smoke goes up 'into the ages of the ages'...

so then, how can Babylon's punishment by fire be ongoing for 'eternity'  or 'forever and ever' ? when Revelation states plainly that Babylon is ENTIRELY CONSUMED and burned to the ground by the fire and this happens in this world, not in some eternal hell in the next existence.

Obviously the phrase, 'into the ages of the ages' is incorrectly translated as 'forever and ever' in some translations of the New Testament.

[rosered]

 
  Yes!!!!!!!!!!    Our life lessons is  ,  it is all about rebellion ......an act of violent or open resistance to an established government or ruler.
"the authorities put down a rebellion by landless colonials"
synonyms:   uprising, revolt, insurrection, mutiny, revolution, insurgence, insurgency; More
the action or process of resisting authority, control, or convention.
"an act of teenage rebellion"
synonyms:   defiance, disobedience, rebelliousness, insubordination, subversion, subversiveness, resistance
"an act of rebellion"


GOD set every man/Adam   with two natures   working within  in their members   , we have  TWO LAWS [sin and death ][ and [life in peace ]    and  two bodies ,  the body of death [pride ]  and the body of Life    [CHRIST] 

One is set up to fail  ,  for futility    [vanity ]  nothingness   / short  time

     and the other is set  up  for eternal LIFE
ALL BY GODS WISDOM AND POWER AND GLORY !!

Is not Satan / adversity against  GODS HOLY SPIRIT   all about the  pride of  this short  life ? http://www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?
criteria=pride&sstr=0&t=KJV

http://www.blbclassic.org/search/translationResults.cfm?criteria=PRIDE&sf=5&sstr=1&t=KJVftp://

TO GODS GLORY   , HIS  WILL NOT FAIL !!!  Keeping our minds and hearts on the things ABOVE     :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  Rose.....God set Adam in His image and likeness[spirit] to rule and have dominion on the earth. a usurper came of

a different nature spirit[man of sin]to sit on God's throne[our body His temple] and claim to be God[satan keeps transforming

himself as an angel of light/you will be wise like God] I WILL NOT GIVE MY GLORY UNTO ANOTHER. vanity of vanities versus

  Holy of Holies. so...a new spirit....a new heavens....I make all things new.

[eaglesway]

"You were the anointed cherub who covers,
            And I placed you there.
            You were on the holy mountain of God;
            You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.

      15"You were blameless in your ways
            From the day you were created
            Until unrighteousness was found in you.

      16"By the abundance of your trade
            You were internally filled with violence,
            And you sinned;
            Therefore I have cast you as profane
            From the mountain of God.
            And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
            From the midst of the stones of fire.

Walking in the midst of the stones of fire is a good thing :o)